i finally completed vet maelstrom arena even though it took me literally 5 hours LOL.
That's mainly due to the fact that I hadn't played maelstrom in a long time (since it came out) and decided to learn everything again via veteran like an idiot.

I now know what to do and my second run will begin Wednesday which I will definitely have everything down.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

P.S. Also I checked leaderboards and dont know which one top NA dk you mean, but afaik Swaggasm and Combustion are stamina dks so the staff doesnt afect them at all.

Of little consequence, but swag =/= combustion. He has 3 DKs, 2 magicka and 1 stamina. As of last week, he had yet to dust off his stam dk after shelving it weeks ago.

Also, @swaggasm, you're over 500 now? I figured you had broken my record of futility by now.... but daaaaamn.

Artemis wrote: »

Nope, not at all. You are. So if it's obvious you don't need them to finish - then you don't need them. These items in principle are obtainable by all players capable of clearing vMA. Favor of RNGesus is only a matter of time. Then again, after you get it - you'll start whining that you want another trait, won't you? So let's get it straight. This is not a gambreaking problem, it's not a problem that players can't obtain these sets - they can, just takes time, and yes, different time for different players. No, it's not everyone's problem. It's your own personal problem because you don't have an item yet. It's not like something is bugged or imbalanced, or there's lag in cyrodiil - things that are everyone's problem. No, this one is yours. And that's exactly why no one supports you in this thread. You are just complaining and want to make things easier and therefore less significant. You don't like hours of grinding? They gave you the save option. Do some stages then go do something else, then comeback again whenever you want, so it won't be as tiring for you.

Same chances? Well, thing is that with current rng system theyre not really the same. You're just being rude from the start and dont even try to understand my point, everything you do is referring to other mmo games (that are often f2p and have a solid reason to make the gameplay as uncomfortable as possible so the people will buy more from cash shop to avoid it, or are sub based), and referring to a person that did 500 runs (also I would like to know if he is satisfied with his inablity to get the weapon).
Also even though everyone might eventually get the weapon, some of unluckier ones might need to do so many runs they wouldnt be able to get it in any reasonable timeframe. There's not only mathematical rng - there's also such thing as viability of gear, and there probably will be better options that that in 1 year. And such thing as free time which is often limited even for the most dedicated of the gamers so 500 runs you so proudly mention is not something everyone can do, even time -wise.
It would be fine if lucky ones would get an item in 1-10 runs and unlucky ones in 30-50. But when one person gets it on the first run and another does 500 attempts, there's something wrong with the system, and you're deliberately ignoring this fact while trying to put labels on me... Not the best way to prove your point. Seriously, you're acting like I'm trying to snatch the weapons from your pocket.

The system is not broken. It just didn't benefit you, so you complain. If you got those weapons in your first run, you wouldn't create this thread and we all know it.

I'm not a retrograde. You knew what the loot system in this MMO is. If you don't like it - find MMO that is not the exact clone of RNG MMOs. Problem solved. I do think a badge system like in WoW (BC or WotLK for example) would be a good substitute though. But I still insist that these weapons are not something you should count on having. If you get them - you're lucky and good for you. I thought their whole point was to be rare, even more so if you need a specific trait/type.

Firstly, I'm not blind and in not living in vacuum. And there are issues in this game I'm concerned about even though they do not affect me. So again, you're trying to put labels on me and making assumptions. This is very arrogant, and at this point I'm not even sure you're reading my messages.
And yeah, rng for even getting a weapon on top of rng for getting certain type, then a rng for getting a trait. This is on the same level as Asian f2p mmos, and they have a reason to do it at least (I mentioned it above).

And what did you mean by unfair? Yeah, life sucks, it's unfair. Some play classes that are plain better than others in the current patch. And even perfect weapon won't help them and they will have lower DPS than other specs. But that doesn't bother you, right? Your class is probably doing fine, or you have more than one. You're in it so that you can have weapons that you want. Not for justice, not for things being fair. Otherwise, you'd probably start from class/spec imbalance.

Life sucks so games should suck too?
Again, stop making assumptions about me, I'm tired of it. Im not gonna try and prove that dogs don't climb trees.
You're trying to blame me in something in every post. Sorry, I'm not gonna reply to your next post if you continue doing that. Instead of that, I'd like to hear some logical arguments why this loot system makes the game better.

code65536 wrote: »

How in bloody hell is this fair? How on earth can you defend a system that doesn't reward people despite all the time and effort that they put into the hardest content in the game?

Stop trying to reframe this in terms of "need". Hell, nobody even "needs" to play the game. It's about fairness. And the system right now is anything but fair.

This exactly.
Games are made for people, not other way around. And while I'm against instant gratification, I believe that more reasonable loot system will make the game better. At least, it would motivate people to play the arena... Since there's not only 2 categories of players (people who get leaderbaord scores and people who cant finish vMA at all), and there are people who can beat it, but need a lot of time and effort, better chances would encourage them to play. For example, there is a guy (or girl) that doesnt have a perfectly minmaxed character. They finished vMA, lets say in 8 hours, just for a title, but what would motivate them to continue runs? Certainly not the fact that someone did 500 runs and didnt get it.
vMA doesnt give gold or any sellable loot. The gold in chests after stages doesnt even cover repairs and the gear pieces are decon material (except maybe for certain unusual pvp builds). And since its supposed to be one of the hardest endgame challenges, why is it so unrewarding.

Hopefully I'm not as unlucky as some of the players here but yeah I began my vMSA runs and I finally learned all the mechanics after 5 hours of doing it LOL (Completion was 5hours and my score was like 349 XD!). To be fair I'm a stamina DK so there's not really anything I can do other than WB for DPS.

Artemis wrote: »

I don't think you know how probability theory works. It is predestined that some will get things fast, yes. But it's not predestined for each specific player whether he gets it fast or has to grind. You get it now? Like, before the very first player cleared vMA for the first time - everyone was in the same conditions.
Yes, it has nothing to do with skill. Skill affects how much time you spend there per run. Also, you never know what you loot from raid bosses - you can have a good run and only loot soul gems, so what? The system is fair, everyone is in the same conditions. I don't see where is the problem and what you don't like.

Maybe you want all gear tradeable? Or not even that, how about you can buy whatever you want for gold from vendors? If you just want to eliminate RNG completely, that should work, right? I don't think you understand the consequences and how game will suck when everyone just has everything the same. Then what's the point of master weapons in the first place?

I dont think you know the difference between ESO spaghetti code and math concepts.
You just keep repeating "its fair, its fair, ITS FAIR1111111!! So STFU". But the thing is, the game exists for people, not people for the game. This kind of things is usually used in games to make people pay for cash shop items or subscription. It might also make people addicted, like one armed bandits and roulettes, but I wouldnt say that this kind of manipulations deserves a place in every game - or make a good game, to begin with.
And btw, this issue is also one of the reason of stagnation in mmo genre, and a lot of people simply prefer session based games instead of hardcore 24/7 grinding. And actually non-fulltime gamers give more profit these days, because gaming have become more common and there's a lot of people with fulltime job that can spend money on entertaiment. Those people sustain f2p games with ridiculous amount of grind as well, because they can skip it (at least partially), while "free" players are bound to sit and grind. You know, developers of any mmo are only interested in money. You can see it in ESO as well - it started as sub-based game and there is some stuff that takes a lot of time by design, for example, trait research time.
But now its b2p with dlcs. And since there are many people who consider low drop rates a problem, it is a problem, because those people are Zos' customers that should be motivated to buy dlcs and cash shop skins.
It doesnt mean that the content itself should be dumbed down, of course, just the amount of grindyness.
Also when I was talking about trading, I specifically mentioned only trading for another weapon. It proves that you're not reading my posts...

1. Nope. Chances are the same. Outcomes are different. Read some books on probability theory, please. You can have 2 people betting on heads or tails. And sure if you throw a coin, say, 5 times and get 2 heads and 3 tails you might say that chances weren't the same. But you would be wrong. They were the same. And as the number of trials approaches infinity, the odds of getting heads (or tails) are approaching 50-50.

I dont think you know the difference between ESO spaghetti code and math concepts. [2]
Also, you're missing the fact that random generators can be tampered with. When you throw a coin, you know its random. But if you use one armed bandit, you know that chances are.. well... not in your favor.

2. So what? It's master's weapons we are talking about. Not everyone is supposed to have them. That's the whole point. Already gave you an analogy with wow's legendary weapons. It's the same thing. ZOS said themselves that they want those weapons to be rare. Instead of doing a long quest chain like in WoW, they use RNG for this purpose. And they don't have choice here, since there are no cooldowns and vMA is solo. Everyone would have a weapon then.

Not everyone's supposed to have then? Where did you get that statement from? Prooflink please.
And then again, your main argument is "but another game does it differently so every game should do it that way". Which doesnt really work. WoW has been around for many years, and many people predicted another "WoW killer", but even if they copied many elements, including rng, where's WoW and where are "WoW killers"? Same goes for "Diablo killers".
The only system that benefits from bad rng by itself is f2p (often with p2w cash shop), and this is the very reason why it exists in those games.

3. I am reading your messages. But you only speak up for something that benefits directly you. It is your personal problem, I repeat. Consider this again: master weapons are supposed to be rare, i.e. not too many players are supposed to have them. And this goal is achieved. You didn't get a weapon yet - too bad for you. But what you suggest will simply give weapons to everyone who wants them. How is it good for the game and what's the point of master weapons at all in this case(if they are supposed to be rare/exclusive)??? You still didnt' answer this. You can't really blame other people for not reading your messages when you yourself haven't answered all questions that I asked.

Again, nice job at putting labels and making assumtions. This problem affects more people than just me or my guildies.
Also here's another proof that you dont read my messages. A couple of posts easrlier I said that:
" Since there's not only 2 categories of players (people who get leaderbaord scores and people who cant finish vMA at all), and there are people who can beat it, but need a lot of time and effort, better chances would encourage them to play. "
Of course you ignored this because you cant use one of your 2 arguments "But another game!" and "Youre only thinking about yourself!"
Also, this is a thread about this issue so Im writing exclusively about it. Ever heard of "off-topic"? Would be weird if I started a topic about drop rates and then suddenly started talking about pvp lag... Though pvp lag also affects me so I guess Im being dishonest if I say that it must be fixed in another thread.
Also...

How is it good for the game and what's the point of master weapons at all in this case(if they are supposed to be rare/exclusive)??? You still didnt' answer this. You can't really blame other people for not reading your messages when you yourself haven't answered all questions that I asked.

Lies. You just asked this exact question a bit earlier in this message. You just tried to convince me that I dont need it and that I dont understand anything. Cause 1)But another game and 2)Youre selfish. All you do is trying to force your opinion on me, and dont even read my messages. You dont even know me, but you already made an imaginary enemy of of me and keep bashing said enemy with rock solid arguments like "but in another game".
But even though you're rude and probably not even interested in discussion, I will answer. Any items exist to be used by players. Especially if said items are not just vanity stuff and affect balance - even a bit.
Also, I never asked to eliminate any randomness, I asked just to make the system more fair. Especially for people who did 100+ runs.
And as I said - I'm not responding to your messages anymore because you didnt even try to keep the discussion constructive. Unless, of course, you would write something without trying to put another label on me and talking to your own assumptions. You fail to see the problem, even though its not my personal problem, it was discussed on this forum many times.

Once again, you all. The system is fair and it does get the job done. And the "job" in this case is to keep master weapons somewhat rare and outstanding. I still don't see any of your suggestions benefiting the game and getting this job done. I understand, socialism, communism, everyone should get their master weapon etc - it's all good. But there's nothing wrong to have exclusive items in game. That's ZOS's goal. And it's clear that it's beneficial for the game because it motivates people who really want to get it to replay the content etc. You just need to understand, that master weapons is not like your AA sets. They are supposed to be rare, not farmable. So it's good you can't count on just grinding it. You get it at some point if you keep playing.

Assumption over assumption on top of assumption. Zos have been proven to make design mistakes, theyre not gods or something. And if the situation with rng drops and grinds is intended by Zos, then why did they introduce that new Cyro merchant and are planning to remove vr ranks? Also they've reduced the number of BoP sets in TG dlc.. Those are facts, and whats you're saying is just an assumption you've made based on another game.
Also, tendentions in genre can be changed, its not a physical law.
P.S. When AA was just released, Aether was BiS gear. But back then grind was somewhat justified marketing-wise: the game was sub-based. And even then, as you said, its easier to get.

Yeah, RNG sucks. I stopped clearing vMSA a few weeks ago. I've had something like...

One-handed Sword & Shield x5
One-handed mace x1
One-handed axe x1
2h mace x1
bow x1
Inferno staff x2
Dagger x3

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

I want there to be a system in place that caps how badly the RNG can screw you over. Preferably a system that doesnt make content obsolete by giving you gear for resources obtained outside of that content (like vendors or players selling gear for gold). My suggestions? An NPC who lets you trade in several unneeded drops for the drop you need. A token system could also be used to deal with this issue.

This.
Or just increasing chance with any run without getting a weapon.
Also, this guy mentions other games while many games dont have "traits" on items, and in eso they can make a weapon useless (well, less useful that crafted one with good trait).