Doncellius wrote: »

@Strider_Roshin You come off as a Nightblade whos build revolves around spamming Veiled Strike, and who doesn't use Strife. Are you? I have never had issues with nightblades who spam Strife. Literally zero nightblades who spam Strife have proven difficult to defeat (maybe it's just my luck).

I've had significant trouble when a high Spell or Weapon Damage NB using Lotus Fan/Concealed Weapon hits me for 50+% of my health from stealth before Fearing (Ambush/Surprise Attack). Almost all Nightblades do this. That is a powerful combo, and strife may be strong but it is never spammed in Magicka NB rotations I've had to face. Decreasing the cost of Veiled Strike is the very definition of a Wroble-esque balance, to make a powerful skill significantly better while removing alternatives.

40% increase cost for Strife and 20% decrease cost of Veiled Strike = Nightblade buff. I rarely use my V3 nightblade, yet he DOES NOT need this buff.

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

@Strider_Roshin You come off as a Nightblade whos build revolves around spamming Veiled Strike, and who doesn't use Strife. Are you? I have never had issues with nightblades who spam Strife. Literally zero nightblades who spam Strife have proven difficult to defeat (maybe it's just my luck).

I've had significant trouble when a high Spell or Weapon Damage NB using Lotus Fan/Concealed Weapon hits me for 50+% of my health from stealth before Fearing (Ambush/Surprise Attack). Almost all Nightblades do this. That is a powerful combo, and strife may be strong but it is never spammed in Magicka NB rotations I've had to face. Decreasing the cost of Veiled Strike is the very definition of a Wroble-esque balance, to make a powerful skill significantly better while removing alternatives.

40% increase cost for Strife and 20% decrease cost of Veiled Strike = Nightblade buff. I rarely use my V3 nightblade, yet he DOES NOT need this buff.

Exactly this. As though the Proxy Det, Sap, Soul Tether combo weren't strong enough, lets make Veiled Strike stronger too!

My most played character is a Magicka NB, btw, and I would view the OP's proposed changes as a buff to a really strong class, while some other house-based classes are still suffering.

It's not making it stronger; it's making the cost appropriate.

Making one of the most used NB skills cost less and making a skill that is only used sometimes cost more is definitely making NBs stronger. And again, as somebody who mains NBs, they are already strong enough.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

@Strider_Roshin You come off as a Nightblade whos build revolves around spamming Veiled Strike, and who doesn't use Strife. Are you? I have never had issues with nightblades who spam Strife. Literally zero nightblades who spam Strife have proven difficult to defeat (maybe it's just my luck).

I've had significant trouble when a high Spell or Weapon Damage NB using Lotus Fan/Concealed Weapon hits me for 50+% of my health from stealth before Fearing (Ambush/Surprise Attack). Almost all Nightblades do this. That is a powerful combo, and strife may be strong but it is never spammed in Magicka NB rotations I've had to face. Decreasing the cost of Veiled Strike is the very definition of a Wroble-esque balance, to make a powerful skill significantly better while removing alternatives.

40% increase cost for Strife and 20% decrease cost of Veiled Strike = Nightblade buff. I rarely use my V3 nightblade, yet he DOES NOT need this buff.

Time and place determines which one I use, and it makes zero sense why a move that does 7% more damage costs half as much, and has a range of 5m verses 28m

Did you just choose to ignore the multiple other benefits provided by Veiled Strike that people have been describing in this thread? Veiled Strike grants a free stun, a free armor buff, cannot be reflected, and the additional damage over Strife is not insignificant. Go into Cyrodiil right now, find another Nightblade, (who I can almost guarantee will be casting Veiled Strike generously) and try killing him using Strife instead of Veiled Strike, then come tell me that Veiled Strike needs a buff and Strife needs a nerf...

The Strife will win because the Veiled Strike user will run out of magicka whereas the Strife user is still hovering around 90% (sarcasm)

Also I'm not ignoring the benefits of both, but lets just say two nightblades of equal strength saw each other at a distance. I can land two strifes before the veiled strike user even closes the gap, then I get hit by a lotus fan while dealing another strife. So now we're looking at 3 strifes vs 1 lotus fan. From that point it's an equal exchange of strife vs veiled, and the strife user will win. Having a 28m range is a huge advantage. Don't believe me? Try reading all the forums that whine about WB's 7m range (not as many anymore with the stamina nerf). The damage difference is insignificant. It's 8500 vs 9100. In Cyrodiil it's 300 points of damage. It's a great move but I can't justify the enormous cost difference between the two. It doesn't add up.

If a VS user is running out of magicka that quickly, they need better resource management. If you know what you're doing you can easily use VS as much as you need without running out of magicka. And sure on paper that looks great, but this isn't a turn based game so things seldom work out as cleanly as the example you provided. For instance, if I run into a NB trying to spam Strife, I'll simply dodge roll into Cloak, Lotus Fan, Fear, Sap, and go into VS spam. At this point, rather than looking at 3 Strifes vs. 1 Lotus Fan, we're looking at maybe 1 Strife vs. a Lotus Fan, Sap Essence, VS, and most likely a Proxy Det explosion (not to mention an armor buff from the VS). Or consider a NB running into a DK. Assuming the NB is using Strife, it'll be 100% useless against a DK who is using reflect (well, at least when ZOS fixes that stupid resource drain bug) while VS will be unaffected by the reflect.

As far as the range goes, it really isn't much of an advantage for the NB. With the prominence of gap closers in this game, even a half-decent player will have no problem getting to close range before you can do any significant amount of damage with strife (unless you're fighting a sorc, who will be able to do much more ranged damage than a NB anyways). Plus, a ranged skill really isn't very useful with the rest of the skills NBs have in their arsenal. Fear, Proxy Det, Soul Tether, Soul Harvest and Sap Essence are all very strong close ranged abilities that are useless is you're just standing at range spamming Strife. If you look at the two skills in a vacuum and take nothing else into consideration, I can see the argument that you're trying to make, but since ranged skills aren't very conducive to the rest of the strong close-ranged skills NBs have, it really isn't all that strong of an ability. I can't speak for everybody, but I'd imagine the only reason most NBs even use Strife is because of the low cost, and if you take that away a lot of people would probably drop it from their bar. If you really want a compromise, I suppose increasing the cost of Strife wouldn't do much more than cause it to become even less used than it already is, but you absolutely cannot decrease the cost of VS. I have killed many players in Cyrodiil with my Magicka NB, and I use both Swallow Soul and Concealed Weapon, and I can tell you from experience that using VS is well worth the additional magicka cost.