Reward mails are coming in, and RNG hates me today..

leepalmer95 · March 2016

Chingowey wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But this token system was effectively killed and replaced by a RNG torture chamber because @Wrobel doesn't like the idea of people who have banked a ton of AP getting all the new gear sets on day one.

I have an issue with this reasoning. The PvP sets are BoE and thus tradeable. So people who have hoarded a bunch of gold are able to get the full set the first day but those who've earned tons of AP get essentially nothing??

Don't bring logic into this.

Talcyndl · March 2016

code65536 wrote: »

The irony here is that, before IC, PvP had the kind of token system that PvE'ers would salivate over.

There was a (small) chance at getting set pieces from the Worthy mails, but most people simply bought their pieces from the various vendors at base camp. You get the exact pieces you want, and there was a definite goal that you could work towards. Want a max-level purple Ravager ring? Just earn a quarter million AP. No RNG to screw you over. And most importantly, this was fair.

To be clear though none of the hardcore PvP'ers used any of those vendor sets. They were almost exclusively sold to PvE folks for gold.

mchermie · March 2016

Chingowey wrote: »

I have an issue with this reasoning. The PvP sets are BoE and thus tradeable. So people who have hoarded a bunch of gold are able to get the full set the first day but those who've earned tons of AP get essentially nothing??

I agree so much with this. Doesnt make sense at all
Should have just farmed gold instead of AP

leepalmer95 · March 2016

mchermie wrote: »

Chingowey wrote: »

I have an issue with this reasoning. The PvP sets are BoE and thus tradeable. So people who have hoarded a bunch of gold are able to get the full set the first day but those who've earned tons of AP get essentially nothing??

I agree so much with this. Doesnt make sense at all
Should have just farmed gold instead of AP

It's actually faster farming gold as well.

Chingowey · March 2016

But simply making the PvP sets BoP wouldn't make it any better. The pre-IC model is much preferred over any of this nonsense. Hell, even in IC you can buy sets like the pheonix for Tel Var stones..

RadioheadSh0t · March 2016

The idea that @Wrobel repeatedly says he doesn't want people who have banked AP to have new gear sets is basically screwing over their hardcore player base.

Here's an idea: Give people something to spend their AP on, build an economy, and maybe people wouldn't bank AP.

I wasn't banking tons of AP when I could make decent money on a Ravager ring for a night or two of hard-earned AP.

Master_Kas · March 2016

RNG seems to hate me aswell.

Atleast I got 2 diffrent pieces of vicious death divines (since I'm going with crit mundus on that build) it's perfect.

Just jewerly left

..............

ub17_ESO · March 2016

For what its worth...

It doesn't bother me a bit if players save AP in preparation for the next patch and new gear sets. To me it seems like adequate reward for time spent killing the other faction.

This is a game. The entertainment to me comes from playing the game and implementing the strategy I have theory crafted. The fun isnt farming for days and weeks on end to finally get the armor set you have been after so that you can test a build. There is no thrill of the chase in this regard. Think about the last time you heard someone express how much fun they were having running CoA for the 53rd time trying to get the Valkyn helm in the preferred trait. If you are like me, you cant remember the last time because it has never happened! Grinding to reach a state of RNG has to be the worst possible proportion of effort vs reward! Think if Dave N Busters ran a similar model...I like getting drunk and playing ski-ball but now their revenue model has changed so I need to pay them some money so that I can work in the kitchen to earn the chance to choose a random drink/game combo from a bag. After 11 hours of washing dishes somehow I spent $47 and now I'm left sipping a virgin daiquiri and getting trolled by the claw arm machine and the only item worth getting is at the bottom left hand corner so I need to dig out all the worthless crap i dont want with a claw that doesnt close until it is 7 seconds into the lifting cycle.

ZOS why do you insist on hiding, at its best, great gameplay behind BS systems and mechanics? The design should not be to create a system that takes an enormous time to complete or collect, but a system that is soo fun & engaging that you don't want to stop playing.

Master_Kas · March 2016

Interesting, guys and girls. You have to trigger it / get one AP one each char you have earned AP on.

Did it on my sorc: 30 mails, then on my nightblade 36 mails, then on my V2 templar 10 mails :P

Got 5 piece vicious atleast (4 armor, 1 weapon).........

Not a single piece of jewerly of any set .

@Erondil Seems you was right

pandoraderomanus · March 2016

Opened 18 mails (didn't pvp a lot previous week..) - got 1 purple Marksman ring with robust. WTS

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · March 2016

I put some items for silly amount of gold on the guild trader, curious what has been sold (probably nothing, lol) by the time I get home.

kevlarto_ESO · March 2016

your not alone Crown, the rng in this game hates me big time, got 20 rewards nothing that anyone even wanted, I was working the thieves guild failed on a 100% chance to pick a pocket, how does that work..LOL

RDMyers65b14_ESO · March 2016

Talcyndl wrote: »

Considering I'm a masochist and stayed on Azuras, I can't even earn the single AP I need to trigger the retroactive mails.

Just one wall repair will trigger things.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · March 2016

Somehow, I managed to get both a ring and a necklace of the set that I was going for. No, not vicious death.

Crown · March 2016

I added the below to the original post. Copying it here to make it easier to respond in sequence.

Having reviewed well over 1600 reward mails from different people (and made another 50 myself), we've come to the conclusions:

1. The drop rate of jewlery is less than 1%. @NerfPlease did some great math in anther thread about the PTS drop rates that I can't find right now.
2. The distribution of Reinforced (32%) / Divines (29%) / Infused (21%) / Impenetrable (18%) is relatively close, and with the sample size not being huge it's probably RNG.
3. Getting a purple (instead of blue) drop seems to be about 1 in 20 (5% chance).
4. The distribution of weapons (48%) to armour (52%) is about even.

@ZOS_GinaBruno We appreciate that some traits were removed from PvP drop gear (we really do), though it looks like only a partial effort was made to clean up the distribution:

Why do we still have Reinforced on light and medium armour? There are some perma-blocking builds that think they can manage their stam well enough while blocking and want Reinforced on their HEAVY gear (the math says that they're wrong, but they'll still try it) - but the actual value of Reinforced on light (and medium) armor is zero. Absolute garbage.
Why do we still have defending on weapons? The amount of mitigation that defending gives in PvP will not make any difference whatsoever to survivability. In a damage meta, EVERYONE wants either penetration (grand majority of players) or crit (some pure healers and some niche builds).
Why do we still have magicka weapons for stamina sets, and stamina weapons for magicka sets? Example:

Bows of vicious death are of zero value since you changed the first bow passive. It used to affect ALL damage from range (and make my inevitable do a bigger BOOM). I even crafted a gold bow of Torug's Pact when VR16 gear was first available. Now, this has zero value.
Magicka DW is a thing, though the passives from DW weapons are only applicable from swords. Daggers were changed to only apply weapon crit and not spell crit as it used to be, thus negating the value of using any 1H weapons except for swords.
Magicka 2H weapons give slightly more spell damage in some builds, though that's largely irrelevant as the passives don't work for magicka builds and DW is better overall.
Stamina users will NEVER use a staff. I don't need to get into this.

Scamandros · March 2016

I love shooting arrows from my defending marksman ice staff

Crown · March 2016

Scamandros wrote: »

I love shooting arrows from my defending marksman ice staff

You forgot the winky face. You never know if they'll take that seriously and as usual seemingly ignore intelligent commentary. That's not to say that @ZOS_GinaBruno and crew do actually ignore it, just that it seems that way to those of us who care about the health of the game and want to help make it better.

Sometimes I think I should apply for a job at ZOS... become Chief Strategist or some such.

Ishammael · March 2016

Crown wrote: »

Why do we still have Reinforced on light and medium armour? There are some perma-blocking builds that think they can manage their stam well enough while blocking and want Reinforced on their HEAVY gear (the math says that they're wrong, but they'll still try it) - but the actual value of Reinforced on light (and medium) armor is zero. Absolute garbage.

Can you clarify what you mean here in your parenthetical statement, "the math says they're wrong." Does this refer to the stamina regen while blocking clause or the Reinforced on Heavy clause. Reinforced is strictly inferior to Impen in PvP and therefore the statement makes sense (although I'm pretty sure I don't know anyone who wants reinforced). However I think some builds can manage stam while blocking.

Regardless, I agree with the larger point: reinforced on med/light is worse than useless. In fact, I'd rather have well-fitted.

Zheg · March 2016

Crown wrote: »

Scamandros wrote: »

I love shooting arrows from my defending marksman ice staff

You forgot the winky face. You never know if they'll take that seriously and as usual seemingly ignore intelligent commentary. That's not to say that @ZOS_GinaBruno and crew do actually ignore it, just that it seems that way to those of us who care about the health of the game and want to help make it better.

Sometimes I think I should apply for a job at ZOS... become Chief Strategist or some such.

They know full well, they just don't agree. Itemization is handled by ... guess who? If he wanted to put gear in vendors or via a token system, we would have had that over a year ago for undaunted instead of the infused lul-inducing vendor we just got. If he wanted to put in a trait 'fix' system (because that's what it really is, a fix, not a change), he would have done so. If he wanted to fix the fact that a majority of traits on gear are utterly useless, something that should take all of a week, he would have done it during BETA when it was pointed out to him. You will ride the Wrobel wave until CU comes out, or you'll leave early for BDO.

Psilent · March 2016

I'm confused.

Crown wrote: »

I added the below to the original post. Copying it here to make it easier to respond in sequence.
Having reviewed well over 1600 reward mails from different people (and made another 50 myself), we've come to the conclusions:

1. The drop rate of jewlery is less than 1%. @NerfPlease did some great math in anther thread about the PTS drop rates that I can't find right now.
2. The distribution of Reinforced (32%) / Divines (29%) / Infused (21%) / Impenetrable (18%) is relatively close, and with the sample size not being huge it's probably RNG.
3. Getting a purple (instead of blue) drop seems to be about 1 in 20 (5% chance).
4. The distribution of weapons (48%) to armour (52%) is about even.

@ZOS_GinaBruno We appreciate that some traits were removed from PvP drop gear (we really do), though it looks like only a partial effort was made to clean up the distribution:
Why do we still have Reinforced on light and medium armour? There are some perma-blocking builds that think they can manage their stam well enough while blocking and want Reinforced on their HEAVY gear (the math says that they're wrong, but they'll still try it) - but the actual value of Reinforced on light (and medium) armor is zero. Absolute garbage.

Why do we still have defending on weapons? The amount of mitigation that defending gives in PvP will not make any difference whatsoever to survivability. In a damage meta, EVERYONE wants either penetration (grand majority of players) or crit (some pure healers and some niche builds).

Why do we still have magicka weapons for stamina sets, and stamina weapons for magicka sets? Example:

Bows of vicious death are of zero value since you changed the first bow passive. It used to affect ALL damage from range (and make my inevitable do a bigger BOOM). I even crafted a gold bow of Torug's Pact when VR16 gear was first available. Now, this has zero value.

Magicka DW is a thing, though the passives from DW weapons are only applicable from swords. Daggers were changed to only apply weapon crit and not spell crit as it used to be, thus negating the value of using any 1H weapons except for swords.

Magicka 2H weapons give slightly more spell damage in some builds, though that's largely irrelevant as the passives don't work for magicka builds and DW is better overall.

Stamina users will NEVER use a staff. I don't need to get into this.

I wouldn't mind seeing Nirnhoned added as a trait to random rewards. Much rather see that on a weapon than charged or infused.

Crown · March 2016

I do have a LOT more to say and comment about things in this patch, though have to head into work.

More to follow tonight or tomorrow once I get more time testing.

Zyle · March 2016

Crown wrote: »

I added the below to the original post. Copying it here to make it easier to respond in sequence.
Having reviewed well over 1600 reward mails from different people (and made another 50 myself), we've come to the conclusions:

1. The drop rate of jewlery is less than 1%. @NerfPlease did some great math in anther thread about the PTS drop rates that I can't find right now.
2. The distribution of Reinforced (32%) / Divines (29%) / Infused (21%) / Impenetrable (18%) is relatively close, and with the sample size not being huge it's probably RNG.
3. Getting a purple (instead of blue) drop seems to be about 1 in 20 (5% chance).
4. The distribution of weapons (48%) to armour (52%) is about even.

@ZOS_GinaBruno We appreciate that some traits were removed from PvP drop gear (we really do), though it looks like only a partial effort was made to clean up the distribution:
Why do we still have Reinforced on light and medium armour? There are some perma-blocking builds that think they can manage their stam well enough while blocking and want Reinforced on their HEAVY gear (the math says that they're wrong, but they'll still try it) - but the actual value of Reinforced on light (and medium) armor is zero. Absolute garbage.

Why do we still have defending on weapons? The amount of mitigation that defending gives in PvP will not make any difference whatsoever to survivability. In a damage meta, EVERYONE wants either penetration (grand majority of players) or crit (some pure healers and some niche builds).

Why do we still have magicka weapons for stamina sets, and stamina weapons for magicka sets? Example:

Bows of vicious death are of zero value since you changed the first bow passive. It used to affect ALL damage from range (and make my inevitable do a bigger BOOM). I even crafted a gold bow of Torug's Pact when VR16 gear was first available. Now, this has zero value.

Magicka DW is a thing, though the passives from DW weapons are only applicable from swords. Daggers were changed to only apply weapon crit and not spell crit as it used to be, thus negating the value of using any 1H weapons except for swords.

Magicka 2H weapons give slightly more spell damage in some builds, though that's largely irrelevant as the passives don't work for magicka builds and DW is better overall.

Stamina users will NEVER use a staff. I don't need to get into this.

Thank you for crunching the numbers, Crown.

This hurts my head so much. They know we don't want an insane grind to get gear, yet they introduce another long grind that goes against their own estimates of AP gain per player.

They stated the reasons behind lowering the AP required to level the Alliance & Support skill line was because it needed to be accessible to the player average of 10k AP/day. How long do you think it would take a player that averages that amount to get even 1 piece of jewelry...

Starting to think they should rename Rewards for the Worthy, just can't think of anything witty enough.

RadioheadSh0t · March 2016

Zyle wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

I added the below to the original post. Copying it here to make it easier to respond in sequence.
Having reviewed well over 1600 reward mails from different people (and made another 50 myself), we've come to the conclusions:

1. The drop rate of jewlery is less than 1%. @NerfPlease did some great math in anther thread about the PTS drop rates that I can't find right now.
2. The distribution of Reinforced (32%) / Divines (29%) / Infused (21%) / Impenetrable (18%) is relatively close, and with the sample size not being huge it's probably RNG.
3. Getting a purple (instead of blue) drop seems to be about 1 in 20 (5% chance).
4. The distribution of weapons (48%) to armour (52%) is about even.

@ZOS_GinaBruno We appreciate that some traits were removed from PvP drop gear (we really do), though it looks like only a partial effort was made to clean up the distribution:
Why do we still have Reinforced on light and medium armour? There are some perma-blocking builds that think they can manage their stam well enough while blocking and want Reinforced on their HEAVY gear (the math says that they're wrong, but they'll still try it) - but the actual value of Reinforced on light (and medium) armor is zero. Absolute garbage.

Why do we still have defending on weapons? The amount of mitigation that defending gives in PvP will not make any difference whatsoever to survivability. In a damage meta, EVERYONE wants either penetration (grand majority of players) or crit (some pure healers and some niche builds).

Why do we still have magicka weapons for stamina sets, and stamina weapons for magicka sets? Example:

Bows of vicious death are of zero value since you changed the first bow passive. It used to affect ALL damage from range (and make my inevitable do a bigger BOOM). I even crafted a gold bow of Torug's Pact when VR16 gear was first available. Now, this has zero value.

Magicka DW is a thing, though the passives from DW weapons are only applicable from swords. Daggers were changed to only apply weapon crit and not spell crit as it used to be, thus negating the value of using any 1H weapons except for swords.

Magicka 2H weapons give slightly more spell damage in some builds, though that's largely irrelevant as the passives don't work for magicka builds and DW is better overall.

Stamina users will NEVER use a staff. I don't need to get into this.

Thank you for crunching the numbers, Crown.

This hurts my head so much. They know we don't want an insane grind to get gear, yet they introduce another long grind that goes against their own estimates of AP gain per player.

They stated the reasons behind lowering the AP required to level the Alliance & Support skill line was because it needed to be accessible to the player average of 10k AP/day. How long do you think it would take a player that averages that amount to get even 1 piece of jewelry...

Starting to think they should rename Rewards for the Worthy, just can't think of anything witty enough.

This is a great point.

Kartalin · March 2016

Zyle wrote: »

They stated the reasons behind lowering the AP required to level the Alliance & Support skill line was because it needed to be accessible to the player average of 10k AP/day. How long do you think it would take a player that averages that amount to get even 1 piece of jewelry...

Well we can find the binomial probability of success (receiving a jewelry piece). Suppose we have 100 rewards for the worthy.

So there's about a 64% chance of getting at least one jewelry piece. But if you're only making 10k AP/day, that's going to be 200 days to have a decent shot at one.

GRxKnight · March 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

They stated the reasons behind lowering the AP required to level the Alliance & Support skill line was because it needed to be accessible to the player average of 10k AP/day. How long do you think it would take a player that averages that amount to get even 1 piece of jewelry...

Well we can find the binomial probability of success (receiving a jewelry piece). Suppose we have 100 rewards for the worthy.

So there's about a 64% chance of getting at least one jewelry piece. But if you're only making 10k AP/day, that's going to be 200 days to have a decent shot at one.

Apparently they changed the amount of ap needed to get 1 mail to 20k...i ended up getting only 18 mails instead of the 36 i expected

Malborn66 · April 2016

Hello,

I have set up a top rated AD Character L50+300 from Template and I am getting 'bombarded' with these mails.

I would reckon that I have read ~70-100 and my mail box still keeps filling up with more mails.

I cannot ignore mails or delete them per se so I have been reading them and deconstructing the gear for mats (for what that is worth). I have got bored with doing this after a while.

My mail box is still full and any attempts to make space in it are unsuccessful as it just fills up again within a few minutes.

Is this intentional or a bug?