Why is leveling up so tediously long??

Gothlander · March 2016

Egonieser wrote: »

Levling my 5th character to vr16-dom, when i don't pvp.

Max i get to play in a day is 2 hours, tops, yet i have 4 VR16's.

It's not how long you play, it's what you do when you play that matters. If all you do is twiddle your thumbs and admire sunsets - then obviously you'll be only VR12 after god knows how long. If you actually look at the screen and go "oooh look, a quest there - let's go and do it" then you might start earning some XP.

Lol. But do you take your time and listen to the quests because that slows down questing a lot too.

Elsonso · March 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

I'm not sure what you consider end game, but most of it is accessible at v1 (veteran dungeons, PvP - which you can start at level 10 even - MSA. Most trials are doable starting at v10).

Yeah, with the battle level stuff, level 10 is now the end game. All that is left are various quests, many of which will be below the character level by the time they are completed, skill line tweaks, and gear. The quest gap makes the game pretty far out of balance, so I expect them to double down and continue to make level 10 characters on par with level 50 characters by making sure that all quests are leveled to you and provide the appropriate quest and monster XP. This won't happen overnight.

While I think they would like the end game to start at the exit of the tutorial, based on the fact that they allow DLC access immediately, skill lines are too immature at that point.

crislevin wrote: »

i have been playing since march 2014, my main is only v11. .... and i have little motivation to get him to v16. VR is going away anyway.

Similar situation, but I have decided to bring my main to VR16 simply so that I can say that I did it. Once the Veteran Ranks are removed, it won't be possible. If there is anything to achieving VR16 that will be carried forward, and not offered to those who did not, then I at least want to have one character up there.

Otherwise, there is little reason to go all the way to VR16 under a gear system designed to punish those who do.

Current direction from ZOS says that all of the Veteran Rank characters will be the same once the system is removed, so there is little reason to level additional characters above 50.

Sounomi · March 2016

15 years ago, if it took a year to reach the max level in an MMO people were fine. Now it feels like if it takes more than an hour to do it, people are up in arms saying its too slow or too hard.

phairdon · March 2016

Sounomi wrote: »

15 years ago, if it took a year to reach the max level in an MMO people were fine. Now it feels like if it takes more than an hour to do it, people are up in arms saying its too slow or too hard.

Hence why we've read people asking for max level characters, to be sold through the crown store (not often though).

Smileybones · March 2016

Slow levelling process is old school and some people like it that way. Elder Scrolls games have a story to tell you and a few quests aren't enough for that purpose. I enjoy much the levelling process, especially given the fact that people in a hurry or people levelling 2nd, 3rd etc character have the freedom to powerlevel in a matter of days.

CallsignReaper · March 2016

The constant removal of decent grind spots has also contributed to this problem.

Don't just blame the OP for Zenimax's nerf hammer tactics.

Most of you [snip] and whining at the OP made your first VR16 before Wayside, IC and other places was nerfed. Don't start sticking your noses up and acting like you had it harder than it is now. Lets face it, its a helluva lot easier to level a character these days if you have a VR16 (Or multiple VRs) feeding gold and crafted sets down the line.

Just Google ESO grind spots and you'll see how many are gone now. I was making a VR level each day grinding. Good luck doing that these days.

It is a slower grind now. No doubt about it.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · March 2016

I had the opposite reaction. This is my first MMO, so back when I was doing my first characters, I dreaded leveling up as I thought that once you reached the end (as people were talking about the endgame), the game was over and I didn't want the game to end. I remember crying when I reached level 40 because I thought that I only had 10 more levels left.

(I know better now as I have 5 vet ranked characters, two who are V16.)

clayandaudrey_ESO · March 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

For mmo, endgame is the most important thing and when I say endgame I mean when i get a good item, I know I won't just throw it away as soon as i get a level. It completely removes the excitement of getting a good item.

I've played other mmo and progress in the one is by far the slowest of the ones I played.

The fastest was swtor, in 2 months I got 6 characters to final level+ the story is much more interesting with cut scenes and your character has a voice over.

Gameplay and graphics in ESO are the best imo, but the tedious grind for everything just kills it. At least leveling should be easier everything else takes too long already!!

SWTOR has to have a fast leveling system as alt making is a major part of the game with the legacy system. ESO is more about individual character development which applies to a great many people. It is really an unfair comparison between the two games.

phairdon wrote: »

The other MMO I play, consists of 80 levels. This game only has 65 or thereabout. I'd like to see more veteran levels added. Of course, no more as the game is being dumbed down to level 50.

If you look realistically at this game before the xp nerf you really leveled a character at launch to 150 if you played silver and gold. After vr1 you were leveling vet ranks at about 1 vr to 10 regular levels in the Cadwell quests. Add 10 levels per vr rank with going to vr14 you are up to 190 regular levels. This was of course it was dumbed down to make vr easier. I liked the vr system but because progression didn't go as fast as people wanted they complained. Maybe would not have if levels had continued as the first 50 but I think they were trying to avoid level bloat.

I said all that to say the game is not being dumbed down now. Just wait for the complaints about the CP grind that is on the way.

crislevin wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

any links? I might do that. lol

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237234/once-they-remove-vet-ranks-whats-going-to-happen-with-vr16-gear

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2457704/#Comment_2457704

"ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
[*] When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
[*] To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)
[/list]

Additional Details:
We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)

When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.

We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Here you go.

Thanks for the link!

That is a very unclear statement. I know ZOS isn't exactly known for being accurate.

if 40 cp is "bonus", why would they use this number in that example of a player with v14 and 75 CP? The whole thing reads weird.

I guess the question is, are they giving v16s a bonus such that they would have 200 cp, while everybody else will just have vr*10?

btw, if 160 is not a hard cap for non-v16 player, I am unsure if its harder to grind to v16 from v11 now, or to grind 90 extra cp later on....

I am not sure how it is unclear. You will be given enough CP to get you into the gear you are equipping when this launches. If you are vr14 but don't have 140 CP you will be given the CP to get 140. If you are over you won't get any but I would think you would be over vr14 if you do. If you have a vr16 you will get a bonus 40 CP. of course those numbers are subject to change.

Gothlander · March 2016

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I had the opposite reaction. This is my first MMO, so back when I was doing my first characters, I dreaded leveling up as I thought that once you reached the end (as people were talking about the endgame), the game was over and I didn't want the game to end. I remember crying when I reached level 40 because I thought that I only had 10 more levels left.

(I know better now as I have 5 vet ranked characters, two who are V16.)

Lol. I remember playing WoW like 10 Years ago, and lvled a warlock to 59 but didn't want to hit 60 it was the last lvl back then.

Grabmoore · March 2016

crislevin wrote: »

btw, if 160 is not a hard cap for non-v16 player, I am unsure if its harder to grind to v16 from v11 now, or to grind 90 extra cp later on....

90 *400k (approx) = 36 million XP
5 * 850k = 4,25 million XP

I guess you know the answer. Also, don't grind, if you don't have fun doing so. There are other ways to get XP.

Vrienda · March 2016

It's all down to veteran ranks, I had to grind quite a bit on my Templar, doing everything in Cryodiil and even that wasn't enough. In the end Orsinium pushed me that last veteran rank that I needed.

Thankfully Veteran Ranks are going out the window soon (hence why they added Cadwell's silver and gold rewards to keep you doing them), so we'll only have to do one faction to hit max level. Hopefully they nerf world bosses when they do, just in case I ever go back to get zones to grind champion points, they're too hard to solo right now.

nine9six · March 2016

Sounomi wrote: »

15 years ago, if it took a year to reach the max level in an MMO people were fine. Now it feels like if it takes more than an hour to do it, people are up in arms saying its too slow or too hard.

I agree, 100%.

DHale · March 2016

I am not sure what's your rush it it's been sped up four times now. I get to vr 1 in four days and from vr 1 to vr 16 in a week at the slowest and 2 weeks at the longest leveling my 7 th toon as we speak. There are tons of ppl that rush can't actually play the game or their class and have no money at end game no potion no crafting of any kind and two weapons leveled and then rage on the forum there is nothing to do. Back in my day a vr level was four million. You got less than a fourth now. Are all your weapons leveled and all armors leveled? If not you have a lot of work to do.

sirrmattus · March 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Its insane, i've been playing since august and my highest character is vr12, i know im going slowly, but thats also helped by how slowly it is to get to end game, i just give up for a while and then come back.

Now to do that again with another character? LOL.

whats the point? after v16 it already takes forever to get max gear so whats the point of making leveling so long as well?

The thing this hurts the most is creating alts, i will never do that again with another character and i dont even know how i will get to vr 16 when i just finished cadwells gold.

leveling is actually very fast.. no sarcasm either

Bofrari · March 2016

I know what you mean it takes a full 5 to 6 days to make a new toon I wish they'd just let people who have 1 or more vr16s just skip all that crap you have to go through again to make an alt.

idk · March 2016

To answer the OP, much of the game was not well thought out and it's been noted in other forums how the full time beta testers were largely ignored.

Over a year ago the devs admitted their failures and became a huge revamp of the game culminating in the champion system and was supposed to remove the vet ranks making leveling more reasonable.

Unfortunately, this did not occur as the champion system is fully implemented and we still have get ranks. Supposedly they will finally remove the vet ranks later this year but I think it's a see it to believe it kind of thing.

Elektrakosh · March 2016

I've been stuck on vet 1 since last year. Champion points confuse me and I can't do micromanaging very well. Getting to v2 is a dream for me but these folks being able to get from a low level to v16 seems an impossible task for me at least, Especially if you invested everything into clothier, restoration Daedric and vampire skills.

Yes, she is my first character and she will die at the tip of a hat. So how does one person level up faster? I have no choice but to solo nor the skill to be in a group.

Ionan · March 2016

DHale wrote: »

I am not sure what's your rush it it's been sped up four times now. I get to vr 1 in four days and from vr 1 to vr 16 in a week at the slowest and 2 weeks at the longest leveling my 7 th toon as we speak. There are tons of ppl that rush can't actually play the game or their class and have no money at end game no potion no crafting of any kind and two weapons leveled and then rage on the forum there is nothing to do. Back in my day a vr level was four million. You got less than a fourth now. Are all your weapons leveled and all armors leveled? If not you have a lot of work to do.

Which will be the end result. More people leveling up all their toons and running out of content.

Bigevilpeter · March 2016

Just want to clarify something, just beacuse it was longer in the past or in another game doesn't make it a good reason to make it long.

Slow leveling is completely pointless and doesn't add any fun to the game.

Do you considers just going around all day killing mobs an they respawning fun??

Do you consider redoing all the quests you did before many times over fun??

Grind for just the sake of grinding is just stupid and even if its the norm it should be changed

Elloa · March 2016

If you focus on being Vet16 as fast as possible will make the game unfun and once you reach Vet16 you will wonder if it was worth it to rush.

Just play and do what you enjoy. Stop to think about that experience bar. If you enjoy PVP, just PVP. If you enjoy Dungeons, just do Dungeons, and if you prefer questing and enjoying the stories, just do that and take your time! RELAX

k9mouse · March 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Just want to clarify something, just beacuse it was longer in the past or in another game doesn't make it a good reason to make it long.

1) Slow leveling is completely pointless and doesn't add any fun to the game.

2) Do you considers just going around all day killing mobs an they respawning fun??

3) Do you consider redoing all the quests you did before many times over fun??

4) Grind for just the sake of grinding is just stupid and even if its the norm it should be changed

1) It helps people not run out of content as fast and adds more value to the levels because one earn it them. It was handed to a player, then the levels have no value.

2) Yes, I do

3) Yes, I play my chars differently -- some are more "good" and others are more "evil"

4) I takes me at least 50 levels to figure out how I want to play my build and a few respects as well. I can test out new build ideas by grinding different type of mobs.

k9mouse · March 2016

Elloa wrote: »

If you focus on being Vet16 as fast as possible will make the game unfun and once you reach Vet16 you will wonder if it was worth it to rush.

Just play and do what you enjoy. Stop to think about that experience bar. If you enjoy PVP, just PVP. If you enjoy Dungeons, just do Dungeons, and if you prefer questing and enjoying the stories, just do that and take your time! RELAX

Amen, well said!

A watched pot never boils

watched%20pot.png

clayandaudrey_ESO · March 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Just want to clarify something, just beacuse it was longer in the past or in another game doesn't make it a good reason to make it long.

Slow leveling is completely pointless and doesn't add any fun to the game.

Do you considers just going around all day killing mobs an they respawning fun??

Do you consider redoing all the quests you did before many times over fun??

Grind for just the sake of grinding is just stupid and even if its the norm it should be changed

As I stated earlier the game you compared this one to is more alt friendly. This game will become more alt friendly soon when vet ranks are removed but if you think that will take away the grind you are delusional. You will have to grind out cp which means doing all the same content that is here now to get to top gear. Really nothing will be changing except for the words used.

Egonieser · March 2016

phairdon wrote: »

The other MMO I play, consists of 80 levels. This game only has 65 or thereabout. I'd like to see more veteran levels added. Of course, no more as the game is being dumbed down to level 50.

Yes, but in other games levels increase exponentially and gradually, in ESO you suddenly go from 100k required for lvl 50 to 850k required for 51 (vr2). Other games just follow the formula to the end: 100k, 105k, 110k etc etc
For those that are unfamiliar with this veteran system, it's a big "WTF" moment as they hit that wall of XP

No, other games have it easy, even if they have more levels - the levels are easier to obtain as they don't have a system called "veteran".

I have nothing against veteran ranks either, but ESO is not comparable to traditional MMO's.

Pangnirtung · March 2016

This is an RPG. There is a story. There is a progression.

This is not a race. There is no end.

There's plenty of content to experience as you level. If you expect to get from A to Z in ten days you are playing the wrong kind of game.

Ionan · March 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Just want to clarify something, just beacuse it was longer in the past or in another game doesn't make it a good reason to make it long.

Slow leveling is completely pointless and doesn't add any fun to the game.

Do you considers just going around all day killing mobs an they respawning fun??

Do you consider redoing all the quests you did before many times over fun??

Grind for just the sake of grinding is just stupid and even if its the norm it should be changed

1) I disagree.

2) I don't do a hobby if its not fun.

3) Not so much, needs more variety. I am happy for horizontal progression options like the thieves guild or DLC which balances your level to play it. Quest design to make them more varied (or random), needs more love for alt playthroughs.

4) For me it depends how you grind, I like to take on large groups of mobs or npc, i find it relaxing, not always certainly but at certain times. Ditto for PVP or group dungeons.

I_killed_Vivec · March 2016

Better not tell him the real grind is CP - getting to VR16 is nothing compared to getting to CP cap.

k9mouse · March 2016

k

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Better not tell him the real grind is CP - getting to VR16 is nothing compared to getting to CP cap.

At least, CP cap is account wide and one have Enlightment to help out...

Gothlander · March 2016

Aeula wrote: »

It's all down to veteran ranks, I had to grind quite a bit on my Templar, doing everything in Cryodiil and even that wasn't enough. In the end Orsinium pushed me that last veteran rank that I needed.

Thankfully Veteran Ranks are going out the window soon (hence why they added Cadwell's silver and gold rewards to keep you doing them), so we'll only have to do one faction to hit max level. Hopefully they nerf world bosses when they do, just in case I ever go back to get zones to grind champion points, they're too hard to solo right now.

World bosses

Elloa wrote: »

If you focus on being Vet16 as fast as possible will make the game unfun and once you reach Vet16 you will wonder if it was worth it to rush.

Just play and do what you enjoy. Stop to think about that experience bar. If you enjoy PVP, just PVP. If you enjoy Dungeons, just do Dungeons, and if you prefer questing and enjoying the stories, just do that and take your time! RELAX

I like your advice and your YouTube videos good advice as well.

Triumviri · March 2016

working on my 3rd v16 atm.

1st is a v16 Templar AD (got to max lvl before the xp nerf's, and before the questing mob nerf's)
2nd is v16 NB EP
3rd is v3 DK DC

I made each one a different faction, as the chats and populations are different.

yes i ran thru silver and gold twice before, and am doing silver for a third time, and definitely gold a third time.

it is an achievement in doing so itself, i took my time, knew the locations to go to for quest(played in beta).

but it was fun, getting to max level should not be short, Questing use to be really hard, really, really hard.

and i am kinda disappointed it isn't anymore.

its so ridiculously easy now, i can't fathom, how much easier you complainers are asking for it to be.