Since when have Argonians been so "magically attuned" ?
Since when have Nords been the best "sneaks" ? ( that is what Stam is for in E.S. games )
Nords should keep their health thing as this is a traditional racial of theirs, Argonians have and WILL always be the weakest, you decide to play with it stop asking for changes just because you want to have a scaly tail OP...

I have only once played a redguard and that was in Oblivion, I have also only once played a Khajiit & that was also in Oblivion...

However in this game I have at least 2 of each of those because I chose to play with the strongest race for my class / purpose not because I wanted to be "pretty" and knew I was going to complain on the forums everyday until I have my way.

( Not saying you are doing this everyday, but you guys pushing for Argonians to get Gift of Magnus is getting annoying )

You are NOT suppose to have it, I hope you never get it, hell if anything Argnonians should get stam buff instead of magicka buff...

They were not enslaved for centuries for no reason, they are weak OP.

I do like Argnonians but they are a useless race & that is balance.

Everything cannot be equal for if everything is equal there is no real balance. There will always be a stronger and a weaker element Polar opposites are true balance.

EDIT:

I did not read your last paragraph until I clicked comment, if however they add the + 10% stam or Magicka to every race I will agree to this, then it's fair but Argonians fall under the stam class...

However if you want traditional Elder Scrolls balance for attributes this is what the devs should have done because this is how the races work:

Magicka:

Altmer Breton Dunmer

Stamina:

Bosmer Khajiit Argonian

Health:

Imperial Nord Orc

Brrrofski wrote: »

Honestly. It's way more unbalanced than just nords and Argonian. Why go anything other than redguard then orc for stam,high elf then breton for magica, imperial for tank.

The rest are just overshadowed by those.

EP must be real glad that any race, any alliance exists.

But Dunmer DK.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Saynna wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Honestly. It's way more unbalanced than just nords and Argonian. Why go anything other than redguard then orc for stam,high elf then breton for magica, imperial for tank.

The rest are just overshadowed by those.

EP must be real glad that any race, any alliance exists.

But Dunmer DK.

Less max magica than high elf.

Fire resist by all accords is based on old damage numbers so does little now. Plus CP... I'll take high elf regen all day.

Fire damage.. Without % I don't know if it's even better than high elf 10% extra elemental.

The 6% stam is OK I guess for a DK, but my dumner Dk really struggles for magica regen so will definitely switch it to high elf if race change comes. A lot play with like no regen on a DK and rely on battle roar, but me personally, I want to use my Ult at the right time to close kills, no frantically try to hit it as soon as it's earned to get magica back.

High elf does NOT get 10% elemental damage, it's 4%.

Dunmer gets 7% increased flame damage. Dunmer IS superior for magicka DK. All of ESO knows this. It's not even something to argue because you'll always be wrong.

I would create a set of racials to choose and then in character creation you can choose the racial you like more.

For two reasons , one is you can play the race you want without feel bad because you know that actually Altmers are better for magicka than argonians for example.

Second is it would give more flexibility to devs to design sets of "racials" without have any conditional.

3 is what people want freedom, freedom in what weapon to use, skills, stats and etc.

Tdroid wrote: »

There, a dedicated healer race.

Stopped reading here. This exactly something you DONT want to do in your game. Thats the exact reason race passives in ESO were a terrible idea.

Simple idea to balancing them out would be deleting ALL the combat relevant passives. Leaving only flavour stuff like faster leveling of a skill line and adding some more flavor stuff instead of stats. 50% swim speed, even though is laughable currently, is a good example of what race passives should have been.

This is balancing in a different sense than you mean it, I think, but maybe they could also make passives give you magicka or stamina focused bonuses depending on if your magicka or stamina is higher.

That 8% weapon crit makes my feels hurt every time I try out a magicka build.

Kippesnikke wrote: »

DUIIIWEEELL!!!!!!!
but tbh man stamina is for warriors and sneak. so will do for both. actually not a bad idea to change it to stamina.

Kippe!!

haha what's up man?

I know it's for warriors too in this game, I just tried to make a point, the excluding Redguards was on purpose because I found it too hard to pick whether they belong in HP or Stam category simply because like Dunmer Redguards are pretty good warriors and can be jack of all trades...

So yeah I am all for the +10% either stam or Magicka just so we're clear BUT I would say they should add that as an extra passive you get. so you'd have to spend skill points in it if your race does not already have +10 in a resource attribute, if it does you are allowed to add a skill point into HP.

Many of you forget most races either have Robust or something similar ( few have conditioning ) HOWEVER Khajiit have Robust Constitution... so a double bonus there.

Is AD really balanced? Nope especially not vs EP ( should it be balanced lore wise? ) Probably not, should it be balanced for pvp? Probably...

Potion passive is OP though... I mean 12% in all attributes guys is a lot...

The real question is: Is balance real? I mean balance of power always shifts, but can there truly be such a thing as balance?
The thing about these passives are that you should use your gear to make up for your shortcomings...

Imho I just say deal with it, but whatever

Xarko wrote: »

Tdroid wrote: »

There, a dedicated healer race.

Stopped reading here. This exactly something you DONT want to do in your game. Thats the exact reason race passives in ESO were a terrible idea.

Simple idea to balancing them out would be deleting ALL the combat relevant passives. Leaving only flavour stuff like faster leveling of a skill line and adding some more flavor stuff instead of stats. 50% swim speed, even though is laughable currently, is a good example of what race passives should have been.

I agree that there should be next to no combat benefit from racial choice(I off-handedly mention nerfing the racials into the ground as the only real option for balance in the opening post), but it seems clear to me that ZOS is not going to do that.

And we already have races dedicated to certain things. Why not improve the bad ones?

Bad_Company wrote: »

I don't think, in my humble opinion, that races need to be reworked and changed like this, just to get a max magicka/stamina on your race of choice. First of all, the bonuses races provide you with should be lore-based.

Second, if ZOS were to add, let's say, magicka to Argonians people playing stamina-based Argonians would go "Why max magicka?! It could/should have been max stamina!". Because let's face it, people just want their character to be the best-looking and most efficient character of all time.

Third, there is no such a thing as "some races overshadow the others". I mean, it's clear as day that some have less powerful perks, but it really comes to the build you have in mind and the fact that you might just want to play what you like best.

Also, one could say that races are not balanced and they should be reviewed, meaning their perks should be tweaked if necessary. You can't dramatically change one race's perks just for the sake of power playing/endgame.

EDIT: I wrote "classes" instead of "races" by the end.

First(going by your sorting here):
Lore-based racials are well and fine... in single player games. This is an MMO with race/faction lock(if you don't pay for cross faction race choice). That there is a race/faction lock demands that there is interfaction balance, which there isn't.

Second: ZOS already seemed to single out Argonian as a healer(thus Magicka) race. Simply went by that. If they got stamina instead, I wouldn't complain.

Third: Some races absolutely do overshadow others. The Imperials are a great example of this, having both a tanky and damage dealing nature. The Redguards are simply fantastic with Stamina. Dunmer are great for magicka Dragonknights, Altmer for Sorcerers. And so on.

The simple matter of fact of the current state of the game is that health bonuses are pretty weak, while stamina and magicka bonuses(which impacts ability efficiency, meaning virtually all damage and healing) is really, really strong.

It is no coincidence that the Nords and Argonians, both being "health races" are generally the weakest in the game. Just looking at the Nords, you'd think they'd be a strong race, with their strong survivabiity. But because they 1: have no resourcemanagement outside of health and 2: have to compete with the Imperials and Orcs who have health and stamina, they are simply not a good choice. And, surprise surprise, both the Nords and Argonians are Ebonheart Pact, which messes with the faction balance.

If ZOS won't nerf racials into the ground as I think they should to make it as much of a non-factor in build choice as possible(you know, letting people play what they want to without being punished for it), they have to at least do a little to balance the races. The Nords have been buffed at least 3-4 times already(first Robust got doubled, then their Armor bonus became % based damage reduction and then their health got buffed from 3% to 6% then 9%) and they are still a weak race in the game. Not for lacking in survivability, but simply because they are not up to par with the current power-leval of the racial passives. Doing something as simple as switching their health regen to max stamina would make them about on par with Imperials right away. Giving Argonians a bonus to max magixka and healing also makes them desirable.

And I am in favor of every race having a +10% to either magicka or stamina(or both, or a +10% to all 3 stats, since it would be balanced). In the current system where abilities are tied to max magicka and stamina values, I think it is a must for faction balance.

Duiwel wrote: »

Since when have Argonians been so "magically attuned" ?
EDIT:

I did not read your last paragraph until I clicked comment, if however they add the + 10% stam or Magicka to every race I will agree to this, then it's fair but Argonians fall under the stam class...

However if you want traditional Elder Scrolls balance for attributes this is what the devs should have done because this is how the races work:

Magicka:

Altmer Breton Dunmer

Stamina:

Bosmer Khajiit Argonian

Health:

Imperial Nord Orc

A division that would be fine and dandy, were it not for the imbalanced relationship between health and magicka/stamina. Max Health bonuses are, simply put, weaker because max stamina/magicka gives more ability power. This was not much of an issue before the soft caps were removed, since then it was a matter of how to reach the caps. But with the removals of the soft caps, the value of max stamina/magicka skyrocketed because of the impact on abilities.

Coping my post from another thread:

All races will get bonus for training that fit the lore, but once you train that skill to max, all races are the same. Each race will get 1 unique bonus, for example:
Altmer: - incomming magika damage
Bosmer: + dodge chance
Khajiit: + crit chance (both phys and mag)
Breton: - skills cost (both stam and mag)
Redguard: + all recovery
Orc: + heal and heal regen
Nord: - incomming phys damage
Dummer: + crit damage (both phys and mag)
Argonian: + heal received, potion effects, crit resistance
Imperial: + max stam and magicka

These unique bonus can work for both stam and mag build, and somewhat fit the lore.

xellink wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Since when have Argonians been so "magically attuned" ?
Since when have Nords been the best "sneaks" ? ( that is what Stam is for in E.S. games )
Nords should keep their health thing as this is a traditional racial of theirs, Argonians have and WILL always be the weakest, you decide to play with it stop asking for changes just because you want to have a scaly tail OP...

I have only once played a redguard and that was in Oblivion, I have also only once played a Khajiit & that was also in Oblivion...

However in this game I have at least 2 of each of those because I chose to play with the strongest race for my class / purpose not because I wanted to be "pretty" and knew I was going to complain on the forums everyday until I have my way.

( Not saying you are doing this everyday, but you guys pushing for Argonians to get Gift of Magnus is getting annoying )

You are NOT suppose to have it, I hope you never get it, hell if anything Argnonians should get stam buff instead of magicka buff...

They were not enslaved for centuries for no reason, they are weak OP.

I do like Argnonians but they are a useless race & that is balance.

Everything cannot be equal for if everything is equal there is no real balance. There will always be a stronger and a weaker element Polar opposites are true balance.

EDIT:

I did not read your last paragraph until I clicked comment, if however they add the + 10% stam or Magicka to every race I will agree to this, then it's fair but Argonians fall under the stam class...

However if you want traditional Elder Scrolls balance for attributes this is what the devs should have done because this is how the races work:

Magicka:

Altmer Breton Dunmer

Stamina:

Bosmer Khajiit Argonian

Health:

Imperial Nord Orc

you forgot redguard[/
I think they also should have an stamina enhancement.

I think the races are pretty balanced, i play Argonian on all my characters.

Elektrakosh wrote: »

Some folks cannot play as an Imperial unless they get digital upgrade or disc.
The passives and racials are weak in one faction namely: Ebonheart Pact. Nords and Argonians have a glaring weakness but Lizard folk are the Krillin of this game.

Argonian Swim speed does not apply in this game as there are no way of diving/ staying submerged under water. Yes in lore they are super swimmers and in those games I imagine you were able to dive under the water. In this game they are making a guerilla race into a bunch of healers who need potions and have mediocre restoration staff skills. Kwama? No I'd like to be an effective killing lizard who uses her inbuilt hist ability than to chug potions all the time.
My restoration Argonian cannot get past vet 2 because she can't cut it in dungeons by herself. Yes maybe I did choose the wrong abilities due to not knowing a darn thing. I had to invest in vampire due to needing to heal and restoration due to needing to heal.

As a first play I'm astounded on how she barely beat the main story, lots of deaths and misfire of spells ,cc, errant pets I relied on restoration because my Lizard gal seemed too frail even with wards and armour before becoming a vampire. Being a vampire made her real flammable but health drain helped a lot.

The worst hit seem to be the EP, yes. And I hope that changes

Xarko wrote: »

Tdroid wrote: »

There, a dedicated healer race.

Stopped reading here. This exactly something you DONT want to do in your game. Thats the exact reason race passives in ESO were a terrible idea.

Simple idea to balancing them out would be deleting ALL the combat relevant passives. Leaving only flavour stuff like faster leveling of a skill line and adding some more flavor stuff instead of stats. 50% swim speed, even though is laughable currently, is a good example of what race passives should have been.

Yup, I agree with this, racial passives should be more like racial traits, rather than bonus to combat stats.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Or just bring back softcaps and fix/balance the entire game? Nah

That would be welcome, but I somehow doubt that'll happen.

Travestynox wrote: »

Xarko wrote: »

Tdroid wrote: »

There, a dedicated healer race.

Stopped reading here. This exactly something you DONT want to do in your game. Thats the exact reason race passives in ESO were a terrible idea.

Simple idea to balancing them out would be deleting ALL the combat relevant passives. Leaving only flavour stuff like faster leveling of a skill line and adding some more flavor stuff instead of stats. 50% swim speed, even though is laughable currently, is a good example of what race passives should have been.

Yup, I agree with this, racial passives should be more like racial traits, rather than bonus to combat stats.

I do too, but let's be real here. ZOS has been moving towards making the racials stronger, not weaker.