There's no excuse for not playing on the non-CP campaign

Sharakor · March 2016

Liberal mentality: Everything that I, a liberal progressive, do not agree should be banned by federal law. If you don't agree with my ideology you are a racist, bigot and fascist.

Dalsinthus · March 2016

What is with the biased thread titles lately? "There is no excuse..."!?! How about no, I want to play in a campaign where my cp are active. I hope you enjoy the non-cp campaign but please lay off of telling other people how to enjoy this game.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · March 2016

Here are the barriers to everyone playing on the Non-CP campaign.

Everyone geared for CP and your FOTM "stack damage to the heavens and let champ points take care of your sustain and mitigation" builds break without their obvious crutch.
ZOS stacked the cost of re-gearing to the heavens so everyone with gold gear tuned for CP doesn't want to pay to re-gear.
As I have said before, the CP system promotes lazy gameplay. You have to actually manage your resources without CP and a significant percent of the playerbase will just take the lazier path.
And the most hilarious reason is......

Drum Roll.....

Some people are just TERRIBLE without CP. Especially on the Blackwater campaign. I am wrecking people that used to be very challenging to kill. If you were one of these people, would you want to play on a no-CP campaign? After building up a reputation of actually being a good PvP'er when all you did was just grind crackwood cave?

This no-cp change suffers the same adoption challenges that the gated IC access campain suffered. When you implement a change to the game that makes it tougher on players, but improves the gameplay overall, you can't make it optional. A significant amount of the playerbase will take the easier path even if the harder one is good for the game.

Imagine if ZOS had made an optional campain where Magicka DK could still face tank and have dynamic ultimate gen. Do you think the 1.5 PvP population (which was 60% DK) would have voluntarily switched over to that campaign and voluntarily respec, and regrind a whole different class?

rfennell_ESO · March 2016

Huggalump wrote: »

There's no excuse for not playing on the non-CP campaign

I can think of one, it would be being at the CP cap and being used to the passives you already have.

myrrrorb14_ESO · March 2016

There are plenty of reasons to play on a cp campaign, just as there are plenty of reasons to play on a non-cp campaign. After getting through the title, I find the tone of the article a bit condescending. I am probably reading to much into it, but I see no reason for your preferred playstyle to be inherently better than the opposite.

I prefer the cp campaign. Planning and building the character, including how to spend cp, is just as important to me as the twitch skills needed to be an effective player. I would feel as though I were only playing half the game if I were to ignore the champion point system.

I think the addition of a non-cp campaign was great. I love having choices and I can see this as being very popular with certain players. I just don't agree that there is no reason to .... (I'm not going to finish that, it's too painful to write all those negatives together).

Takes-No-Prisoner · March 2016

Huggalump wrote: »

Everyone should be playing in it to encourage ZOS to open more non-CP campaigns.

Non-CP is how the pvp should be in ESO.

OP if you really want a game that is mainly about competitive spirit and great 1v1 game-play I have a game for you:

It's pretty good, you should go play it.

dimensional · March 2016

Huggalump wrote: »

Someone explain to me how the pvp combat in this game is made better by everyone having jacked up resource generation. I'd love to hear it.

If you can't, that means the non-CP campaign is better. If there really is some problem with Battle Spirit balancing, that's a game system they can adjust. But other than that, non-CP is better for pvp.

You do realize that not everyone chooses resource CPs, right? You're generalizing everyone in the game to a few specific nodes, that's your mistake. So I disagree with the entire premise of this thread on faulty logic and reasoning.

MikeB · March 2016

Uviryth wrote: »

I would never play those "Vanilla"-campaigns. I hate the notion that everybody has to be equal, no matter how much efford they put in their characters. It`s the gaming-equivalent to the participation trophy in schools.
<bläch>

Not everyone is equal. The separator is skill. If you don't have it you will be just like everyone else, if you do enjoy the 1st place trophy. Not to mention CP PvP is nothing more than cookie cutter builds or scrubs, talk about participation award.

I see CP PvP as someone getting a handicap in golf. Not skilled enough to compete with everyone else? Here have some extra damage, regen and resistances so you can be better than those with less CP's. Not because you have more skill but because you spent more time grinding XP.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

I'd say that ideally one would build for the CP campaign. What this means though is that the CP campaign folk are better served by having people with all v16 Legendary gear, maxed morphs, and capped CP for their build.

For everyone else the non-CP campaign makes a lot of sense.

The reality is that I'll go wherever my guild wants to go.

Recremen · March 2016

There is no causal link between poor player performance and accumulation of champion points and no reason to assume it will become a spamfest. Beyond a few of the passives, like the one that deals 2 damage to an attacker when they weapon swap from a bow to a 2-handed axe and then perform a heavy attack (only procs on weekends when there's a full moon), champion points simply bump stats that already exist. If that should be called into question, then anything that bumps stats should be called into question. Leveled your character? Unskilled. Upgraded your gear from white to green? Unskilled. Using an item set?? The worst.

Campaigns with Champion Points enabled are fine and you'll find way more skilled players going there, trying out new builds, theorycrafting top-end content, and not wasting time on regressive campaign rules. Blackwater Blade notwithstanding, of course. I totally see the point in not allowing champion points in the nonvet campaign.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · March 2016

I play where my guild is. It is not going to the non-CP campaign. Cyrodil is just not fun without the guildies.

PS4_ZeColmeia · March 2016

IMHO we should have the cap removed from CP and then have campaigns that revolve around CP applied once vet ranks are removed. CP is really only an issue in PvP (compounded with vet ranks in PvP). Making PvP have CP caps gates people into pins that is more even with each other.

If you make it based on CP applied vs CP earned, then anyone can play with anyone so there is no "you're breaking up guilds" or "I can't play with/against whom I want" issue while also getting rid of the "I have been working on CP for months why can't I enjoy the fruits of my labor?" issue. I would suggest doing this with the DB DLC.

If this idea was taken up, it'd be awesome to have cap loadouts so if you go into a capped campaign then it won't be 3k each time you want to play a different campaign, only when you change your loadout.

For reference, I only have 296 CP

Nallenil · March 2016

Time for me to start playing this game again now that there is a NO-CP campagn

yay.

catalyst10e · March 2016

While I agree with the overall sentiment that non-vet CP campaigns are a good thing, and should be promoted, what is with this hostility towards those of us who would prefer to continue using CP like we're villains? CP is one of the very few reasons left to continue on with a character whos hit VR16. Someone who claims they dont want to re-gear for non-CP isnt using CP as a "crutch" it's just another resource, and when you take away a resource, the smart thing to do would be to re-gear yourself for the new lack-of-resource environment.

By the OP's own logic, the argument could be made that YOU non-CP supporters need some of us to be handi-capped just to give you a chance at beating us... I fear I might start to now get messages saying "1v1 me bro, azura's star!" I earned my CP like I earned my VR16 level, and I use it as a resource like any other. It'd be like a campaign where there was no stealth, sure it might stop the ganking problem.... but there's plenty of players who enjoy the stealth aspect of the game, and would be rightfully justified in avoiding that particular campaign. Does that mean Stealth is a "crutch"? Lets start a non-skills campaign, skills are crutches, also the environment is just a flat space, and no ranged abilities... everyone gets a sword and just light/heavy attacks each other till one side is dead but everyone still gets trophies.

SO! again... it's great theres a non-CP campaign, and it's great you're having more fun there because you apparently had too much trouble with people having CP... but don't do this hostile Us VS them, opinion-as-fact, "no-excuse" BS. I hope the non-CP campaign serves it's purpose of helping ease new-er players or maybe players who didnt PVP before, into PVP. and I hope it does do well enough to get new campaigns. Don't QQ over players who have earned and use CP to make their toons better than yours, and use that as some sort of soap box to stand on saying it's lazy, or a crutch.

Edit for reference: I only have 304 CP at present on my main. I do alright, and so can you.

Bofrari · March 2016

Yeah I changed all 5 of my toons off that crap campaign as soon as I logged in and I have 100 friends on friends list they all did the same on top of that all my guilds did the same thing so yeah enjoy that crap I guess someone has to dO it just I and everyone I know.

Strider_Roshin · March 2016

I think it's an excellent idea and I can't wait until it hits the PS4 :-)

The builds will have to be different than it currently is with CP, and it brings a whole new aspect to PvP.

notimetocare · March 2016

Azura's Star is going the way of Axe. Nobody wants it

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

I do to have an excuse, I earned my CP so I will not pvp with no CP unless the champion system is removed.

Robbmrp · March 2016

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

I'm running 5 Julianos, 3 Willpower and 3 Magnus with my setup and didn't have to change a thing with it. Do I run out of resources, in a long fight of course. Am I going to respec my character for "what ifs" hell no.

To anyone who things they need a respec/rebuild/regear or what not I say only this....TRY IT OUT. Go in and see how you do with your current setup. You may not need to change a thing. You may actually enjoy the campaign as it is now.

You'll never know unless you try it.

Have you re-runed each of your willpower jewelry for legendary spell damage instead of recovery, or are you just using the stock jewelry as is? Sorry, would have to have a set of CP gear and a set of non CP gear. One of the reasons I enjoy PvP in this game is I don't have to carry a second set of gear.

Nope, I still have + Spell power on those.

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

New player will still be at a disadvantage.

While you have no CP, you're still rocking 9 traits armor, Molag kena and maelstrom weapons.

Quick question, did they reset everyone's campaign? Or did you have to pay to swap? Saw something about that on axe, but not azura's.

No campaign reset, I'm still homed on azura. Hardened ward went from 10.3k on old azura to 7.3k on new azura Interestingly my recovery was 1600 before and is still 1600, but that might have something to do with campaign buffs cos it's mostly yellow right now. Seeing as I'm still homed there I'm gonna try it first.

No campaign reset?

I have 5 toons I pvp with, all on azura's as on xbox it's the only actual pvp server.

So 750k ap for me to relocate all those.

Cheers zos.

Well I logged out on azura yesterday and just logged straight back in to azura this morning. I know this cos the first thing I went to do was move cp around and it wouldn't let me. Can't actually confirm if it's still my home but I'm guessing it is.

@Huggalump yeah azura is the no cp campaign, so I was a bit surprised to see my recovery hadn't really changed, cos my ward had. I lost about 5k magicka and my ward went from 10.3k to 7.3k. Spell damage was unchanged though obviously cos no cp affect that. So ttk could well be down as a result of no cp, bit early to tell yet though.

Just change your campaign, it will have no cost.

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

There are plenty of reasons
Need to completely respec my character to play according to a different rule-set from the rest of the game.

ZoS rolled-up up base game power/mechanics from the base game and into the CP system under the assumption we'd get them back

Need for completely different gear set-up and with the crazy expensive mats and tortuous RNG, I can't even get a single set I want.

The BattleSpirit mechanic in the game was implemented because players had too many CPs. It's still there even though we have no CPs.

If I wanted to play in a everyone-is-equal-Karl-Marxian ESO utopia, I'd go to Backwater Blade where no CPS belong (though the Battlespirit thing has got to go) due to it being specifically a nonvet campaign.

Most people who asked ZoS for no CPs wanted to go back to something like 1.5, not create some Frankenstein mix of CP system and no CP system.

1- changing gear to adjust is easy
2-no they have not. Have u ever tried max cp on pts? Its total ***.
3- battle spirit was because ppl cryed about 1 shots
4- getting the right items through crafting is possible. Complain about rng? About it being not fair while making communist joke? I could say here that you blame rng as sone ppl blame cp for lack of skill.
5- most pl askrd for no cp because cp system is a mess and is completely *** up and ***.

1. no its not, gold mats are expensive. 7.5k*8 temp alloys for 1 item, f**k that
2. max CP is unobtainable
3. yet the one shots still exist and the current battle spirit literally only punishes those who complained about one shots, and DK's because apparently we had our fun
4. some people want specific drops to compensate for no cp, warlock rings anyone? and again gold mats
5. no people thought they were asking for non cp but really they were asking for 1.5, Joy is correct about that

TheBull · March 2016

I said for the longest a no cp campaign was not needed. Only a small hand full of pvprs cried about cp. the same ones that cry about everything.

dimensional · March 2016

TheBull wrote: »

I said for the longest a no cp campaign was not needed. Only a small hand full of pvprs cried about cp. the same ones that cry about everything.

so... you've been crying for the longest time about cp?

Glory · March 2016

I don't really care about the apparently intentional insult saying that people playing in CP campaigns are bad.

I would just like to comment that the implementation of a non-CP campaign just points to the fact that the Champion Point system was a bad idea from the get-go. Many including myself advocated against the CP system as it got announced, as we saw the writing on the walls saying "imbalance incoming."

There are a lot of people who want an even playing field, but I find it funny that there has to be a campaign where they basically say "yeah, champion points aren't a good idea."

Robbmrp · March 2016

I do not have a problem with players or how much CP they have. I'm at about 410 and can always tell when someone who isn't at that level just by how little damage they do attacking me. I can literally stand there doing nothing and take little to no damage at all. I can understand that players frustration with that as well. Hell, I've been at that point as well attacking someone else going "WTF?!?!". So the No CP Campaign will be perfect for those people who have little to no CP and will get to experience all the fun that PVP in this game can be.

I hear everyone who's earned their CP and wants to use it. That's great and I'm sure at times I will venture back into the CP campaigns as well. It doesn't matter which campaign you play in as long as your enjoying yourself. Once you get bored or are no longer satisfied with that campaign, try another out. You never know unless you try it.

That's all I'm suggesting to people is to just give it a try. Don't respec/rebuild, go see how you do exactly as you are. If it's not for you that's totally fine. Go where you have the most fun bashing heads in

dimensional · March 2016

An even playing field in an RPG with an insane amount of metrics and input -> output functions will never be achieved. There will always be a level of imbalance inherent in any system like this. That's not to say they can't always be working on it, but let's be realistic about our expectations here. There's nothing wrong with the CP system as a concept, they just botched the implementation a bit. It is still salvageable, to an enjoyable level even.

apostate9 · March 2016

Huggalump wrote: »

Did I fit enough negatives into the title?

Anyhow, non-CP pvp is VERY good for the game. Everyone should be playing in it to encourage ZOS to open more non-CP campaigns. Non-CP is how the pvp should be in ESO.

Of course, it levels the playing field so new players aren't instantly turned off by pvp.

But another reason non-CP pvp is good for the game is because as CP numbers rise, pvp becomes worse. There are no cooldowns in this game, so it risks being a spamfest where player skill is irrelevant and the only determining factors are gear and stats. The only thing that can keep pvp from becoming this spam fest is resource management. Champion points make resource management far too easy. PVP becomes stupid once everyone's pumped enough into resource regen and cost reduction.

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Do the healthy thing for the game. Play in the non-CP campaign.

No.

Ghostbane · March 2016

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Well darn it, may as well shut down all the other servers.

MikeB · March 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

While I agree with the overall sentiment that non-vet CP campaigns are a good thing, and should be promoted, what is with this hostility towards those of us who would prefer to continue using CP like we're villains? CP is one of the very few reasons left to continue on with a character whos hit VR16. Someone who claims they dont want to re-gear for non-CP isnt using CP as a "crutch" it's just another resource, and when you take away a resource, the smart thing to do would be to re-gear yourself for the new lack-of-resource environment.

By the OP's own logic, the argument could be made that YOU non-CP supporters need some of us to be handi-capped just to give you a chance at beating us... I fear I might start to now get messages saying "1v1 me bro, azura's star!" I earned my CP like I earned my VR16 level, and I use it as a resource like any other. It'd be like a campaign where there was no stealth, sure it might stop the ganking problem.... but there's plenty of players who enjoy the stealth aspect of the game, and would be rightfully justified in avoiding that particular campaign. Does that mean Stealth is a "crutch"? Lets start a non-skills campaign, skills are crutches, also the environment is just a flat space, and no ranged abilities... everyone gets a sword and just light/heavy attacks each other till one side is dead but everyone still gets trophies.

SO! again... it's great theres a non-CP campaign, and it's great you're having more fun there because you apparently had too much trouble with people having CP... but don't do this hostile Us VS them, opinion-as-fact, "no-excuse" BS. I hope the non-CP campaign serves it's purpose of helping ease new-er players or maybe players who didnt PVP before, into PVP. and I hope it does do well enough to get new campaigns. Don't QQ over players who have earned and use CP to make their toons better than yours, and use that as some sort of soap box to stand on saying it's lazy, or a crutch.

Edit for reference: I only have 304 CP at present on my main. I do alright, and so can you.

What are you even talking about. CP's literally give you a huge advantage over those with considerably less. It's not like wearing a legendary set vs an epic version of the same set.

CP's are not just "another resource", they're literally just advantages. Up to 25% regen or 15% damage advantage over someone else with 0 CP's, being the extreme. Someone having just a 1% damage advantage over you just because they killed more pigs is not the same as them crafting or farming a better set. They had to have the knowledge and skill to farm the mats to craft or complete the vet dungeons or trials. Not everyone cares to or just can't do those things and if they don't or can't you deserve the gear advantage. You don't deserve an advantage because you have more play time or spend more money on XP scrolls or gold on pots.

As someone with 501 CP's I prefer Azuras because it feels like true PvP. Can you 1vX? Not so much, which since I don't have a superiority complex it suites me.

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

Sharakor wrote: »

Liberal mentality: Everything that I, a liberal progressive, do not agree should be banned by federal law. If you don't agree with my ideology you are a racist, bigot and fascist.

Uh, all absolutists do that, conservative and liberal.