Will this game make it past the dark brother hood in its current state?

Daedgaming · March 2016

maboleth wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

It will be around for many years to come, it has improved and it will further improve over time. ZOS is a young team which does their first MMO, they made mistakes and learnt from those, they will continue to learn over time and issue will be ironed out over time. Some folks might leave the game for good, so be it, others will fill their place. The TES crowd will stay around, the pvp-centric crowd might get less - but that is a good thing IMO, finally it will become TES with friends, what it should have been in the first place, because that is where the income is and where the most loyal fan base is coming from.

I'm a relative newcomer to ESO and a huge ES fan. I had prejudices, misconceptions and was spoiled by a MMO thing. Now ESO is one of my favourite ES games ever. I love them all, huge Skyrim fan, big Oblivion & Morrowind fan, but the amount of different things you can do here with such attention to details is mind boggling.

I don't know how many people here played ES games? Because, they would know, from Morrowind to Skyrim, the games were fixed by fans - Unofficial patches, not Bethesda. It's always been like that and that's how it works.
ESO in that regard is polished and bug-free, as far as I'm concerned. It's unbelievably large game - biggest of any ES games by far, and I'm yet to see any quest breaking bug, yet to see any serious alignment, character, placement etc issues. I have reported several bugs, but all were trivial, audio or cosmetic.

Unofficial Skyrim Legendary patch literally fixed thousands and thousands of bugs, from trivial to quest and game breaking issues. And it took years to polish the game(s). It's still an ongoing process that didn't slow down. Both Morrowind & Oblivion had serious issues as well, that needed unofficial patches or .exe hacks to iron them out.
What I'm saying is - Zenimax is doing incredibly good job in polishing this game that is 24/7 live and has been out for less than 2 years. This is such a complex and beautifully crafted game with so much detail, my hopes are very very high.

I 100% agree with everything you said. Except when you release a mmo, at least make sure that there are no big bugs causing the entire server to crash when X amount of people log in.

SemiD4rkness · March 2016

Dhukath wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

The quests being boring is your opinion. I imagine that most long time TES fans disagree with you. I really like the quests in this game, I come across a lot of lore through them, more than in any previous TES game.

^THIS!! Absolutely agree!! I love the quests in ESO and think they are very well done in comparison to many games out there. I think some people are just overwhelmed by the sheer number of quests and, in-turn, find them 'boring' simply because of the quantity. Of course, the players who mostly, or only, enjoy PvP wouldn't enjoy PvE quests because they aren't PvP... but thankfully there are a lot more PvE players who DO enjoy the quests and pretty much guarantee that ESO will deliver continued questing far into the future.

IMO the people/players that rush through the content to reach some expected endgame goal are the ones who find the questing boring. TES games have never been about endgame, the journey has always been just as important. It is because of this that ESO has such rich environments and deep, emotional and memorable quests/storytelling. If ESO sticks with this format for the foreseeable future it will continue on gaining strength and players as it goes.

Yes there are issues but the scale of the game and what Z-online are trying to accomplish are truly epic and as with everything "If it's not hard, it's not worth doing."

Skyrim is my second most favorite game of all time, I absolutely loved it but I still think ESO has the most tedious and boring quests Ive ever encountered in any game.

maboleth · March 2016

Abeille wrote: »

I feel the same way. I still couldn't finish the civil war quest on the Empire side in Skyrim because I can't for my life make Legate Rikke accept my report on the Rift. Not even a clean reinstall solved it.
I played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Fan made fixes were always pretty much essential. People often forget that the single player TES had many issues too, as much as I love them.

Yeah, unofficial patches are THE most essential mods a player can add.
TES has/had 10x more bugs than ESO now, but that still makes them one of the best game series ever developed.

As for Legate Rikke, I never got that bug on my end when I sided with imperials. Have you installed the latest Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Patch? It was already reported (http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/index.php?/tracdown/issue/889-legate-rikke-doesnt-give-option-to-reporting-to-duty/)

b92303008rwb17_ESO · March 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If The Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 couldn't kill ESO, why do you think Dark Soul 3 or Division will?

LOL this is like saying Resident evil 6 coulnd't kill FIFA !
Compared to a lot of other MMOs out there ESO is not doing so well as you think.

Then please enlighten me and name a few MMOs of the same genre as ESO that really outperform by a significant margin. ESO is by no means perfect but it has its advantages that worth people's continuing support.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · March 2016

Will this game survive against Mario Brothers? I dont think so.

maboleth · March 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Skyrim is my second most favorite game of all time, I absolutely loved it but I still think ESO has the most tedious and boring quests Ive ever encountered in any game.

Agree with you about Skyrim, but completely disagree about ESO. Tastes differ after all, people say various things and opinions for all ES games, yet I find all ES games incredibly inspiring.
That being said, have you ever sided with Aldmeri Dominion? The story behind those quests is amazing. I'm still relatively at the beginning, level 14, but loooove it.

JD2013 · March 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Dhukath wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

The quests being boring is your opinion. I imagine that most long time TES fans disagree with you. I really like the quests in this game, I come across a lot of lore through them, more than in any previous TES game.

^THIS!! Absolutely agree!! I love the quests in ESO and think they are very well done in comparison to many games out there. I think some people are just overwhelmed by the sheer number of quests and, in-turn, find them 'boring' simply because of the quantity. Of course, the players who mostly, or only, enjoy PvP wouldn't enjoy PvE quests because they aren't PvP... but thankfully there are a lot more PvE players who DO enjoy the quests and pretty much guarantee that ESO will deliver continued questing far into the future.

IMO the people/players that rush through the content to reach some expected endgame goal are the ones who find the questing boring. TES games have never been about endgame, the journey has always been just as important. It is because of this that ESO has such rich environments and deep, emotional and memorable quests/storytelling. If ESO sticks with this format for the foreseeable future it will continue on gaining strength and players as it goes.

Yes there are issues but the scale of the game and what Z-online are trying to accomplish are truly epic and as with everything "If it's not hard, it's not worth doing."

Skyrim is my second most favorite game of all time, I absolutely loved it but I still think ESO has the most tedious and boring quests Ive ever encountered in any game.

Funny. I find the quests in Skyrim (mostly) very dull (with a few exceptions) when compared to the ESO quests. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Abeille · March 2016

maboleth wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I feel the same way. I still couldn't finish the civil war quest on the Empire side in Skyrim because I can't for my life make Legate Rikke accept my report on the Rift. Not even a clean reinstall solved it.
I played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Fan made fixes were always pretty much essential. People often forget that the single player TES had many issues too, as much as I love them.

Yeah, unofficial patches are THE most essential mods a player can add.
TES has/had 10x more bugs than ESO now, but that still makes them one of the best game series ever developed.

As for Legate Rikke, I never got that bug on my end when I sided with imperials. Have you installed the latest Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Patch? It was already reported (http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/index.php?/tracdown/issue/889-legate-rikke-doesnt-give-option-to-reporting-to-duty/)

Not the latest, no. I will do that when I get home, thanks!

b92303008rwb17_ESO · March 2016

maboleth wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Skyrim is my second most favorite game of all time, I absolutely loved it but I still think ESO has the most tedious and boring quests Ive ever encountered in any game.

Agree with you about Skyrim, but completely disagree about ESO. Tastes differ after all, people say various things for all ES games. Some love Skyrim to death some don't. Some find Morrowind the pinnacle of all, some don't, some cannot stand Oblivion... others love it... bah.
That being said, have you ever sided with Aldmeri Dominion? The story behind those quests is amazing. I'm still relatively at the beginning, level 14, but loooove it.

Some of the quests in ESO are indeed boring but when people say ESO has the most tedious ones ever encountered in any game, he probably has very little gaming experiences.

maboleth · March 2016

^ Exaggerating to the extreme is something I've got used to, especially on these forums.

maboleth · March 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Not the latest, no. I will do that when I get home, thanks!

Abeille wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I feel the same way. I still couldn't finish the civil war quest on the Empire side in Skyrim because I can't for my life make Legate Rikke accept my report on the Rift. Not even a clean reinstall solved it.
I played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Fan made fixes were always pretty much essential. People often forget that the single player TES had many issues too, as much as I love them.

Yeah, unofficial patches are THE most essential mods a player can add.
TES has/had 10x more bugs than ESO now, but that still makes them one of the best game series ever developed.

As for Legate Rikke, I never got that bug on my end when I sided with imperials. Have you installed the latest Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Patch? It was already reported (http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/index.php?/tracdown/issue/889-legate-rikke-doesnt-give-option-to-reporting-to-duty/)

Not the latest, no. I will do that when I get home, thanks!

Glad to help! If you're still stuck on that quest even with the latest patch, you can always report it to the USKP team on http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/ Either ask on the forums or file a bug report on their tracker and send them your save file for investigation.

dday3six · March 2016

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

sadownik · March 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

Lag is very small indeed for the miniority that feels satisfied playing the game as neutered TES game with some people passing by from time to time. Any other activities also include lag, be it pvp (duh) dungeons, trials or even single player arena.

tinythinker · March 2016

OK, so I don't care about attacking or defending ESO in this thread, so if you are committed to one or the other, have at it. But my sober assessment is this:

- ZOS has enough money to run ESO a long time. It isn't going to die in the next year or two. Especially given the massive love out there for The Elder Scrolls as a franchise.

- Whether the game survives for a while is one thing, but whether it thrives beyond the next year or two is a different issue, and one that even committed supporters and devoted fans of the game should not brush off.

To elaborate, there are problems with the structure and function of PvP and there are issues with sufficient end-game content. Toss in making practically all new content DLC as well. These problems will not kill ESO in the remotely near future, but, they can cripple parts of it if not handled correctly. Related factors include the capacity for recruiting and keeping key talent on staff and the willingness to take risks and restructure elements of the game.

To expound further, because the game went B2P a year ago ZOS needs a constant stream of new content for the cash shop and to make a few things people want either hard to get in-game or cash shop exclusive. Among the exclusive items are DLC, either by direct purchase or through access granted by a subscription. Hence expanding and improving base game content, as in actual new areas, artwork, quests, etc, is a much lower priority than making such content to be sold as part of DLC. Yet the base game is what most players experience, especially new players.

Cyrodiil/the Alliance War could use a review and revamp in some elements of its structure and design philosophy, but, it's part of the base game. Moreover, there are still massive issues with lag that seem intractable. And ZOS doesn't want to rock the boat, even though many PvPers would take a big mistake or two that got retracted over the snail's pace of the past two years. This isn't about blame, it's about the bind ZOS is in with resources and prioritization. Do they take a big risk here and there or accelerate the pace of smaller risks or just hold the present course and speed?

On the PvE side, as mentioned, players currently experience the base game the most, yet with new DLC each quarter the playable content will grow and grow. If ZOS can maintain this pace, the cost of individually buying all DLC will be huge, even if they bundle it from time to time for sales. They could convert some of it to base content if it gets old enough, yet, having so much costly DLC could encourage more players just to sub for $15 per month, especially if they add more and more end-game content to new DLC rather than expanding or improving the end-game content of the base game. Again, no blame here, but decisions, decisions.

So, which branches do they take as the path forks? Is it going to have a mostly solo-friendly base game and a few solo friendly DLC but a majority of group content? Try to split the difference with in each DLC? And what is the ratio to choose? if you have "mostly group" DLC and "mostly solo" DLC as a production them, you can gain the advantage of letting player's choose. Some players may mostly choose solo DLC, and other most group DLC. You could even see which was more popular and focus on that, though you would lose players who prefer the option you didn't choose. You also run the risk of some DLC bombing hard. Yet, players may get bored with content that always tried to split the difference. Again, decisions decisions.

In other words, the people at the top like Mr. Firor and Mr. Lambert can choose to make hard choices at the start of the forks in the road or wait a while, but eventually the game can't straddle every diverging option. They dumped the PvP option for the Justice System, they seem to have dumped or indefinitely delayed Spellcrafting, and so on. Some people were glad, some were mad. But they eventually had to choose.

My biggest concern isn't one issue or problem with the game as it is (though I can many), or some feature I really want added (even though I've suggested a couple dozen of them). It is whether the game can make the big changes when it needs to or take a big risk when circumstance warrant it. If ZOS can manage that, the game has a much better chance to thrive. Otherwise, many players will continue to get fed up waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting only to realize that the change they are looking for either isn't coming or will take too long to arrive. Often slow and steady is the way to go, with minor course corrections, so largely I'm on board with that. But you still have to be able to leap ahead or swerve from time to time to avoid going extinct.

And as reward for reading this far

, here is an interview with Firor I just found as I finishing up writing this comment that lightly touches on many of these issues, published just a few days ago: http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/03/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-making-games-of-this-type-is-really-really-hard-5730186/

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

All I can say is that I am still giving them money for each new DLC. The DLC also appeals most to the kind of player that doesn't complain much here -- those of us who still focus on storytelling.

Recently I noticed I couldn't recall the EP story line. I started paying attention on my Cadwell's Gold on an alt and realized that I enjoyed the Stonefalls storyline. I still haven't finished FO4 and The Witcher, 2 games I love, because I keep coming back to ESO.

For all the PvP problems, there are still a lot of us spending money to enjoy new stories. I don't see why that wouldn't continue. There are a lot of less successful MMOs that are still making money.

OrphanHelgen · March 2016

Black desert online also took many players

Bowdowntogreatness · March 2016

Absolutely thus game has so much content to keep u satisfied

BlackEar · March 2016

Yes.

Tandor · March 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

I haven't personally encountered any open world lag in almost 2 years. I know that those who do group dungeons and trials occasionally mention it, but it is far from being as commonplace as in PvP - yet we are in any event told that the PvP campaigns are full so it doesn't seem to deter people. It exists, and it needs fixing, certainly, but it is not a critical issue for most players, especially outside of PvP. I agree that spreading blatant falsehoods doesn't help anything, but nor does exaggerating the extent and severity of an acknowledged problem.

dday3six · March 2016

Tandor wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

I haven't personally encountered any open world lag in almost 2 years. I know that those who do group dungeons and trials occasionally mention it, but it is far from being as commonplace as in PvP - yet we are in any event told that the PvP campaigns are full so it doesn't seem to deter people. It exists, and it needs fixing, certainly, but it is not a critical issue for most players, especially outside of PvP. I agree that spreading blatant falsehoods doesn't help anything, but nor does exaggerating the extent and severity of an acknowledged problem.

The falsehood I was addressing was that lag only happens in PVP. That's not true. 'Terrible' is subjective, but when enemies mobs stand in place for a few seconds while the game catches up to the fact they're dead, or when a player sees a resource node and cannot interact with it because it's already been taken. I consider that to be terrible lag.

Elsonso · March 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

I haven't personally encountered any open world lag in almost 2 years. I know that those who do group dungeons and trials occasionally mention it, but it is far from being as commonplace as in PvP - yet we are in any event told that the PvP campaigns are full so it doesn't seem to deter people. It exists, and it needs fixing, certainly, but it is not a critical issue for most players, especially outside of PvP. I agree that spreading blatant falsehoods doesn't help anything, but nor does exaggerating the extent and severity of an acknowledged problem.

The falsehood I was addressing was that lag only happens in PVP. That's not true. 'Terrible' is subjective, but when enemies mobs stand in place for a few seconds while the game catches up to the fact they're dead, or when a player sees a resource node and cannot interact with it because it's already been taken. I consider that to be terrible lag.

I don't think the resource node is lag.

dday3six · March 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

I haven't personally encountered any open world lag in almost 2 years. I know that those who do group dungeons and trials occasionally mention it, but it is far from being as commonplace as in PvP - yet we are in any event told that the PvP campaigns are full so it doesn't seem to deter people. It exists, and it needs fixing, certainly, but it is not a critical issue for most players, especially outside of PvP. I agree that spreading blatant falsehoods doesn't help anything, but nor does exaggerating the extent and severity of an acknowledged problem.

The falsehood I was addressing was that lag only happens in PVP. That's not true. 'Terrible' is subjective, but when enemies mobs stand in place for a few seconds while the game catches up to the fact they're dead, or when a player sees a resource node and cannot interact with it because it's already been taken. I consider that to be terrible lag.

I don't think the resource node is lag.

It takes a bit for the nodes to disappear because the game hasn't caught up that it's been gathered already. Not sure what else to call that, if not lag.

sagitter · March 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Black desert online also took many players

It's just about time, it will turn in the next p2w korean mmo probably, and the content is 1/10 of eso content.

andreasv · March 2016

sagitter wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Black desert online also took many players

It's just about time, it will turn in the next p2w korean mmo probably, and the content is 1/10 of eso content.

Please explain how a sandbox MMO has only a tenth of ESO. Simply getting my head around crafting took me a few days and now with a bunch of crafting quests (not sure if there are any in ESO) I think it offers more than ESO. And what about trading, is anything like that in ESO?

Lysette · March 2016

QUEZ420 wrote: »

ESO will easily make it 10 yrs imo. Many other mmos have done this even wit very little population on the servers. Inb4 ESO will be available for the next console generation probably within 5 yrs ish with paid for character transfer to continue playing ur characters on the new hardware. Jus sayin.

10 years is a long time, there are not that many MMOs out there which made it that long. And with 4 DLCs per year this would be 40 DLCs - there is not really that much space in Tamriel, they would have to expand it to outside Tamriel or DLCs would have to get increasingly smaller over time. ESO is not a sandbox, but a themepark MMO, it has to provide content, content is not player-made nor player-driven, all premade storytelling, no room for players to craft their own stories like in EVE online.

So I do not hope for 10 years - maybe 3 of new content and another 3 to go until it will run out - that is my guess.

NateAssassin · March 2016

Considering the fact 90% of my friends quit this game, next to nobody on does pledges, except for DPS ofc, Rawl'kha only having 10 people there, etc.

I'd assume this game is dying, hell I quit playing for a little because I can't find people to do pledges or anything with.

Buffler · March 2016

NateAssassin wrote: »

Considering the fact 90% of my friends quit this game, next to nobody on does pledges, except for DPS ofc, Rawl'kha only having 10 people there, etc.

I'd assume this game is dying, hell I quit playing for a little because I can't find people to do pledges or anything with.

Hmmmmm

Lysette · March 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

Seriously, I have not experienced any lag in ESO yet - do you want me to say, I would have lag while I experience none? Maybe your expectations are different from mine, to me 100 latency is not lag - you might say it is.

Xendyn · March 2016

Nothing gets past the Dark Brotherhoood...

latest?cb=20140313225353

dday3six · March 2016

Lysette wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...You forget about that we - the pve and TES fan crowd - do not have any lag at all. That is purely a pvp problem and due to you guys creating zergs. Without you there is no lag problem at all, all running nicely.

I cut this quote chain down because I only responding to the no lag outside of pvp.

That is so far from the truth, that I'm not sure we are playing the same game. There is terrible lag all across the game. Trials, 4 player dungeons, and solo be it Maelstrom Arena or just open world. If you don't like PVP that's fine, but spreading blatant falsehoods like this are not helping anything.

Seriously, I have not experienced any lag in ESO yet - do you want me to say, I would have lag while I experience none? Maybe your expectations are different from mine, to me 100 latency is not lag - you might say it is.

I would want you not to apply your personal expeirence as a universal truth. In Maelstrom Arena for instance. There are several documented examples of lag from both NA and EU players. So I don't believe you can dismiss that and state there is no lag in ESO outside of PVP just because you've not experienced any. I'm inclined to believe it's that you do not spend much time running trials or dungeons more that anything else.