Thieves Guild: Only criminal options? RPG please!

Shadesofkin · January 2016

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

BabeestorGor wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

Why?
Nightblade already covers it and if you aren't a NB why should you get those abilities?

That's the precise reason I'd be far more in favor of something closer to an Ult and one or two active skills not directly covered by the NB class. The classes (as limited as they can appear at first glance) are comprehensive from an RPG design point of view and they don't need to be tread upon by constant power creep from new abilities.

Passive skill lines can do a lot of heavy lifting over time and they can carefully add active skills to base game pieces (such as Racial Ultimates)

Well, even though the nightblade has skills for assasination, still they got a bunch of things they can do to be creative for a full dark brotherhood skillline. I expect them to at sometime add abilties to theives guild and darkbrotherhood , more out of popular demand then anything. It would not be pay to win because they are dlc skilllines and you got to get the dlc, basically by subbing once and then aquiring skillline I do bet they would make it so you can level it without doing thieves guild quests. Because they would most likly be adding thieves guild hideouts to every major city in addition to the outlaws refuges. That can be accessed normal game once you entered the dlc at least once and did one of the quests. Same with dark brotherhood I am really curious to how they are going to add them now I can't wait!

I fully disagree with you and believe that you are incorrect in your assumption that they will eventually add an active skill line to either dlc.

Furthermore, it's not whether it would actually *be* P2W, it is the perception that it would be P2W that they must avoid.

Faulgor · January 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

Actually, in Morrowind, the Thieves Guild is at odds with the Fighters Guild. At one point during their quest chains you'll have to chose - meaning, if you complete a quest for one you can't continue in the other. Of course there are ways around this, but Morrowind was special.

Regardless, this means there will be 2 consecutive DLCs solely focused on criminal factions and roleplay. If you're not interested in such things, it'll be almost a year after Orsinium you can expect new content. That's suboptimal from a design and marketing standpoint, IMO.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

Faulgor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

Actually, in Morrowind, the Thieves Guild is at odds with the Fighters Guild. At one point during their quest chains you'll have to chose - meaning, if you complete a quest for one you can't continue in the other. Of course there are ways around this, but Morrowind was special.

Regardless, this means there will be 2 consecutive DLCs solely focused on criminal factions and roleplay. If you're not interested in such things, it'll be almost a year after Orsinium you can expect new content. That's suboptimal from a design and marketing standpoint, IMO.

It'll be a year from Imperial City, that's about correct and the Trial is unlikely to have anything to do with the Criminal Activity. I believe there is too large a portion of the community that desires to have both DB and TG to ignore and so they're required to provide the content. Now, that being said...it might have behooved them to provide a few quest chains for everyone in TG, but for all we know there are and we just haven't seen them yet. I remain the optimist when it comes to ESO.

runagate · January 2016

I'd like to play as a Thieves' Guild member, but I don't think I could survive whatever process makes the lawmen who catch ne're-do-wells in town even more powerful than @Nifty.

SahrotRein · January 2016

Finally, I fully agree with @BalticBlues, he's said what has been in my mind since Thieves Guild was announced.

Even though Thieves Guild's RPG way of being looked down on due to being a criminal could be justifiable by acting as the "good thief" Robin Hood type of thing, it still wouldn't fit my Sorcerer, sneaking and and all isn't my thing on my current main, that's why the Justice achievement tab has probably the least progress atm, lol.

I would greatly welcome the ability to join the Iron Wheel, we might regret me saying this but I would pay extra for the DLC if we had that option (now I'm about to be assaulted that we should not pay extra for something that has to be already included).

And if somebody continues to talk back using unimaginative responds such as telling us not to buy the DLC if we are not happy with it, then screw you - you are what brings down the quality of games while you are easily satisfied with anything you are given even though it has its flaws for which there is not place in an RPG styled game.

Ghrimn · January 2016

As I've said in another thread, they could easily solve this problem by making us infiltrate the Thieves Guild if we choose to ally with the Iron Wheels. That way the main guild quests would all be same regardless of who you ally with. Maybe changing the first and last quest to fit the Iron Wheels theme, and having us report to them from time to time.

demendred · January 2016

I remember another group of people who forced others to 'play' like them.

The leader had a silly mustash.

chaserstorm16909 · January 2016

Maybe the thieve's guild quest line will give you the option to either stay faithful to the guild or join the Iron Wheel and hunt down the theives. Kind of like the dark brotherhood in Skyrim. I for one will stay loyal to the guild.
At this point we know nothing about what the quest line will actually entail. Except of course that you start out as a thief.

Taternater · January 2016

Robin Hood didn't steal from the rich, he stole from the tax collectors. Bathesda should make the Thieves Guild revolve around doing so so that the government goes bankrupt. Then, with no more government, the empire can collapse into anarchy, which will lead to what should be the next DLC, The Road Warriors.

Elsterchen · March 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

Actually, in Morrowind, the Thieves Guild is at odds with the Fighters Guild. At one point during their quest chains you'll have to chose - meaning, if you complete a quest for one you can't continue in the other. Of course there are ways around this, but Morrowind was special.

Regardless, this means there will be 2 consecutive DLCs solely focused on criminal factions and roleplay. If you're not interested in such things, it'll be almost a year after Orsinium you can expect new content. That's suboptimal from a design and marketing standpoint, IMO.

It'll be a year from Imperial City, that's about correct and the Trial is unlikely to have anything to do with the Criminal Activity. I believe there is too large a portion of the community that desires to have both DB and TG to ignore and so they're required to provide the content. Now, that being said...it might have behooved them to provide a few quest chains for everyone in TG, but for all we know there are and we just haven't seen them yet. I remain the optimist when it comes to ESO.

One thing that came into my mind is the simple fact that there has always been an exclusion (RPG-wise) for participating in both: Dark brotherhood and Thieves guild. The first beeing assassines and the later having their main rule (if i recall correctly it is rule No 1, even) of not killing anyone during a heist.

As much as i enjoy seeing these 2 guilds become a living part of ESO and take their rightfull place in tamriel, I (yet again) feel sad about the choosen way of introducing them. Personally I would have loved to see the thieves guild emerge from the justice system: Exclusive to those that actively participate in stealing. Same is true for the dark brotherhood. In my opinion the choice to bring these 2 guilds as DLCs is too "buisness"-like to be fun. Both should have been part of the base game... with the burden of beeing exclusive to those that actively play an thieve or assassin. As Wrothgar proved, there is no need for a "new thing" when introducing a DLC, allowing players to explore a new part of tamriel, meet new challenges and an amazing graphics as well as intelligent storyline is absolutelly enough to open the pockets of most players.

Robo_Hobo · March 2016

Its a consequence of being a completionist

TequilaFire · March 2016

So as a role player you can't even pretend to be a criminal?
Wow taking being a goodie goodie a little far! lol

Abeille · March 2016

Just a friendly reminder that almost all the quests in the game so far force you into the hero role, while only a few of them have the option for you to make a "bad" decision.

Also... Thieves Guild spoilers below.

Thieves guild in this game is more like a Recovering Guild kind of thing. One of the repeatable quests is about you trying to recover some trinkets that have an emotional value to their owners, trinkets that were stolen by some mercenaries or lost somewhere. In the repeatable heists, you are ONLY stealing from evil factions, factions that you will most likely recognize from the rest of the game. Not once in the Thieves Guild main quest you will steal from innocents. You actually are pretty much forced into the hero role once again, now that I think of it.

Tabbycat · March 2016

Thieves Guild is about being a Thief.... that's what the guild is for. You know, Thieves.

Lysette · March 2016

I intend to play the good role in the following way. I imagine to have the order to infiltrate the thief guild and investigate how they work and what they do and plan. For that I have to be an undercover agent and howl with the wolves (thiefs) for quite a while. Undercover agency is as well done by the police and other official organisations in RL, there is nothing bad about it and they have to do criminal things in their job to fit in and be able to climb up the ranks in order to do their investigations.

So even as a lawful person, you can imagine that role and play the thief guild quest line - as a lawful undercover agent.

AshTal · March 2016

I wish they gave more choice but seems like we must all play thieves and killers to do they expansion pack - no choice what's so ever.

I hope they put some additional content in with the Dark Brotherhood such as additional mage and fighter guild quests which we can do in the new areas if our character doesn't want to be in ever guild.

Dubhliam · March 2016

GIVE
US
JUSTICE
PVP!!!

NAOOO!!

caps = true

But on a more serious note, they did not introduce Justice PvP because of the role playing part of the community that did not want PvP.
Now there is a request from role players to be criminal hunters.

ZOS, here is your answer: give us options to do what we will while forcing nobody into something they want.

Messy1 · March 2016

I agree with the OP so much. There better be some justice repurcussions for the DarkBROTHERHOOD.

James-Wayne · March 2016

This is a MMO first and an RPG second...

Lysette · March 2016

James-Wayne wrote: »

This is a MMO first and an RPG second...

Nonsense - MMO by itself means nothing really, but a whole lot of players in the game, nothing more - the full term is MMORPG - this makes it whole - so it is an RPG in the first place which happens to be massively multi-player oriented.

Sausage · March 2016

There should be something for Guards, I remember Guards and Bandit Dens were datamined for example. Or then Guards are gonna get own DLC later.

Abeille · March 2016

Messy1 wrote: »

I agree with the OP so much. There better be some justice repurcussions for the DarkBROTHERHOOD.

I imagine you will get bounties for killing your targets if you are not careful. Much like you get bounties for stealing for repeatable missions for the Thieves Guild.

I expect the DB story line to have an option to actually destroy the DB. I imagine that the DB will be almost completely destroyed in the end anyway, as per tradition (the last two TES games), so I see no issue with adding a couple of extra steps here and there depending on your choices to make it your fault. I mean, they did add an extra step to one of Orsinium's quests for male Orc characters.

Lysette · March 2016

Since I came to the conclusion that being an undercover agent is a way to play through the thief guild's quest line as a good character as well, I have no problem with being in a criminal organisation. With the dark brotherhood I had anyway never a real problem, I am serving Sithis and the night mother, supreme beings, being evil in the name of a supreme being was never seen as something bad - so I can be an assassin in the dark brotherhood and am not any worse than priests of the eight.

Kendaric · March 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

Neither have guilds provided your character with skills in previous TES games... (at least not generally, it could be argued that the fighter's guild (Companions) in Skyrim provided you with the werewolf stuff)

The problem is, unless you want to join the Thieves Guild there's zero reason to visit Abah's Landing. 6 out of my 8 characters have the same issue... they don't steal or engage in criminal activity. I'm looking forward to play the story on my 2 criminals but I think ZOS missed an opportunity here.

Elsterchen · March 2016

Lysette wrote: »

I intend to play the good role in the following way. I imagine to have the order to infiltrate the thief guild and investigate how they work and what they do and plan. For that I have to be an undercover agent and howl with the wolves (thiefs) for quite a while. Undercover agency is as well done by the police and other official organisations in RL, there is nothing bad about it and they have to do criminal things in their job to fit in and be able to climb up the ranks in order to do their investigations.

So even as a lawful person, you can imagine that role and play the thief guild quest line - as a lawful undercover agent.

Awesome if that works for you!

For my main to imagine a small background-introduction isn't enough.
She doesn't steal.
She never did steal, or lie, or kill anyone not attacking her, or pretended to be something/someone she wasn't ever during her whole "live".
I don't think she would ever agree on taking a spy job, bc she is honest enough to know she won't be able to lie and frankly she would tell this to who-ever asks her to do said mission.

Adding to it, there might be slight chance of beeing involved in dark (initiation) rituals ... and no-one could possibly expect her to risk her soul (for which she fought hard to get back!) for politics/some gold/some xp/some whatever?

Nah, she is happy to (finally) be able to explore cadwells gold region WITHOUT having to go through a dark ritual and swear to follow a group that intends on killing a queen and likely all non-elves too, with her hands resting on a black soul gem ...

Lysette · March 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

Neither have guilds provided your character with skills in previous TES games... (at least not generally, it could be argued that the fighter's guild (Companions) in Skyrim provided you with the werewolf stuff)

The problem is, unless you want to join the Thieves Guild there's zero reason to visit Abah's Landing. 6 out of my 8 characters have the same issue... they don't steal or engage in criminal activity. I'm looking forward to play the story on my 2 criminals but I think ZOS missed an opportunity here.

I think so as well, a missed opportunity - but it might be difficult to implement this in a way, which is different for anyone playing through the quest lines. The guild has to look different for any player as it is now already, dependent on the stage which the player has achieved at that time. This is already strange when you play this with different characters at different times, because one character experiences a vibrant guild, because he has done a lot for the guild already, while the other character experiences the guild in a miserable state at the same time.

Kendaric · March 2016

@Lysette: They could have done it in the way that you're hired as an undercover agent for the Iron Wheel without too much work. The introductory mission would need a minor change (and it looks like it was intended and for some reason didn't make it). A mission in the middle would need to change a bit and the end mission would probably have to be different.
I'd already be happy if Abah's Landing would get a bunch of non-guild related quests. I love the zone, it's really well done, but it suffers from a lack of non-guild related quests.

Lysette · March 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

@Lysette: They could have done it in the way that you're hired as an undercover agent for the Iron Wheel without too much work. The introductory mission would need a minor change (and it looks like it was intended and for some reason didn't make it). A mission in the middle would need to change a bit and the end mission would probably have to be different.
I'd already be happy if Abah's Landing would get a bunch of non-guild related quests. I love the zone, it's really well done, but it suffers from a lack of non-guild related quests.

I will play it as an undercover agent, if I have a quest giver for it or not does not matter to me. I start with a good intention into this adventure, but I will have to see, if my character might or might not get corrupted by actually being in this guild. This is open, I decide from the perspective of the character and how my character will experience the guild and their members.

Edit: In Skyrim for example I came pretty early to the conclusion that the guild is just a bunch of disgusting thugs and I abandoned that guild - I was not willing to further do anything in favor of that guild.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

@Lysette: They could have done it in the way that you're hired as an undercover agent for the Iron Wheel without too much work. The introductory mission would need a minor change (and it looks like it was intended and for some reason didn't make it). A mission in the middle would need to change a bit and the end mission would probably have to be different.
I'd already be happy if Abah's Landing would get a bunch of non-guild related quests. I love the zone, it's really well done, but it suffers from a lack of non-guild related quests.

I will play it as an undercover agent, if I have a quest giver for it or not does not matter to me. I start with a good intention into this adventure, but I will have to see, if my character might or might not get corrupted by actually being in this guild. This is open, I decide from the perspective of the character and how my character will experience the guild and their members.

Edit: In Skyrim for example I came pretty early to the conclusion that the guild is just a bunch of disgusting thugs and I abandoned that guild - I was not willing to further do anything in favor of that guild.

^ this. Good role players do not need hand holding by the game maker.

Kaynehusky · March 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Coming from TES, I played ESO as a RPG (Role Playing Game).
RPG means options to play your own way.

Example: You can become a vampire or a vampire hunter in ESO.
This is is your choice, this is RPG, this is great.

However, it looks like the next DLC "Thieves Guild" is all about becoming a criminal.
At the same time the devs are announcing ESO will never get the eagerly awaited justice system
that has been in development for so long due to exploit issues.

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

Quote from "Thieves Guild":
"The Thieves Guild of Abah's Landing, an organization of pickpockets, burglars, robbers, and thieves, is being hunted by a mercenary guard force known as the Iron Wheel. This relentless organization will stop at nothing to see the guild brought to justice for a high-stakes heist that went horribly wrong. As their newest recruit, you'll sneak along rooftops, steal from the shadows, and recover lost treasures to help to restore the guild's reputation."

ZOS, please do not make it mandatory to become and play a criminal for the quest line.
Please give us an alternative option to play as a mercenary guard to stop the criminals.

Please keep the RPG in ESO. Thank you.

While yes the actions themselves may be considered criminal, you have to remember that the majority of your heists and whatnot will likely be done against 'good' people. They're probably pompous *** who don't care about decent people. Also, there are other missions in the DLC tbat take on a nore positive role, such as finding and retrieving lost objects for a sort of 'finders fee'. If you like RPGs, you're likely familiar with Dungeons and Dragons' alignment system and 'Chaotic good'. An individual who will perform unlawful acts as long as it's for the greater good. So really, you CAN play a good character while doing thieves guild stuff.