Thieves Guild: Only criminal options? RPG please!

BalticBlues · January 2016

Coming from TES, I played ESO as a RPG (Role Playing Game).
RPG means options to play your own way.

Example: You can become a vampire or a vampire hunter in ESO.
This is is your choice, this is RPG, this is great.

However, it looks like the next DLC "Thieves Guild" is all about becoming a criminal.
At the same time the devs are announcing ESO will never get the eagerly awaited justice system
that has been in development for so long due to exploit issues.

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

Quote from "Thieves Guild":
"The Thieves Guild of Abah's Landing, an organization of pickpockets, burglars, robbers, and thieves, is being hunted by a mercenary guard force known as the Iron Wheel. This relentless organization will stop at nothing to see the guild brought to justice for a high-stakes heist that went horribly wrong. As their newest recruit, you'll sneak along rooftops, steal from the shadows, and recover lost treasures to help to restore the guild's reputation."

ZOS, please do not make it mandatory to become and play a criminal for the quest line.
Please give us an alternative option to play as a mercenary guard to stop the criminals.

Please keep the RPG in ESO. Thank you.

Gonza · January 2016

You can choose if you become a thief or... not being a thief. I dont see many mages hunter or fighters hunter

Good Luck!

myrrrorb14_ESO · January 2016

Becoming a member of t he Iron Wheel would be cool. Let you play the other side of the conflict. Oh well, such is life.

BalticBlues · January 2016

Sorry Gonza, I do not understand your answer.

I love this game, so I will buy all DLC to have fun and support the game.
However, I do not want to be forced into a criminal role.

Instead of a mandatory criminal gameplay to finish the quest line,
I would like an alternative, for example the option to play investigator.

As an investigator, the gameplay could be similar:
You also could break into houses, but:
Instead of stealing treasures you have to find evidence.

Having the option to decide your role is what RPG mean.

Danikat · January 2016

I agree, there should be options to play both sides.

This DLC sounds like it will be perfect for one of my characters, but on two others I try not to commit any criminal activity (except lockpicking chests in the wilderness which I don't think counts) so they'll basically never be able to play it.

It would be much better if the DLC could give us both options - either we join the Thieves Guild or we join those trying to stop them. That way it's much more likely everyone will be able to find an option that suits them and their character.

j3crow · January 2016

I agree too. It would be cool to play some kind of investigator / crime fighter in order to serve a higher good, instead of simple selfish gain. I get that folks want to play criminals, so I am completely ok with the direction of the DLC. But I hope there are some 'good guy' options in the future. Something alng the lines of the Dawnguard, or the Vigilantes of Stendarr

jkolb2030 · January 2016

As i see your point in the choosing both sides option, i would assume that the Thieves Guild quest line will be separate from your actual thievery reputation...

Meaning, if you have to steal something for a quest it wont actually count towards a bounty in any other zones, quest lines etc..

I would hope it'd be that way anyway, or it would conflict many players who do not thieve.

Tonnopesce · January 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Sorry Gonza, I do not understand your answer.

I love this game, so I will buy all DLC to have fun and support the game.
However, I do not want to be forced into a criminal role.

Instead of a mandatory criminal gameplay to finish the quest line,
I would like an alternative, for example the option to play investigator.

As an investigator, the gameplay could be similar:
You also could break into houses, but:
Instead of stealing treasures you have to find evidence.

Having the option to decide your role is what RPG mean.

I believe that in every TES game you have the option to join or not the Thieves guild or the Brotherhood it has always be like this or basically you want to become a guard?
And in this case what you want to do? chasing NPC around?

Godeko · January 2016

Buy that dlc or dont.
Enough options imho.

Mcwoods55 · January 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Sorry Gonza, I do not understand your answer.

I love this game, so I will buy all DLC to have fun and support the game.
However, I do not want to be forced into a criminal role.

Instead of a mandatory criminal gameplay to finish the quest line,
I would like an alternative, for example the option to play investigator.

As an investigator, the gameplay could be similar:
You also could break into houses, but:
Instead of stealing treasures you have to find evidence.

Having the option to decide your role is what RPG mean.

I agree. That is one reason I loved playing KOTR (Star Wars) is because you got power bonus and unlocked powers based off of your responses. (light or dark side). I have played to try to be on the light side and have answered the red responses that way all game. While I know I will have fun with the DLC it stinks that I go from being this outstanding guy to a criminal.....

BalticBlues · January 2016

Godeko wrote: »

Buy that dlc or dont. Enough options imho.

Are you serious?
Not buying a new area DLC is not an option for serious ESO players.

First, you need to be able to run all dungeons and trials with your friends.
Also every skill point counts for people who want to max their character.

So far, I find most quests in this game pretty open-minded.
I would not have exptected a DLC dedicated to becoming a criminal.
Not without an alternative option to play the other side to keep role-playing believable.

Acrolas · January 2016

Soooo... buy the game pack and don't do the quests?

Nobody really becomes a vampire hunter in ESO. It's more like AOE spam in PVP and hope one or two of the people you're killing are vampires.

If you really want to role play, just stand somewhere inconspicuous in Hew's Bane and whisper to people, "Don't do that. What would your mother think of you? It's time to go home and rethink your life."

Or, "I hope you rot in prison."
Or, "Nice purse, *** ***."

It's like griefing... with words!

Spacemonkey · January 2016

Did you know that you have no choice in being the Vestige?

*DUM DUM DUUUUUUM*

BalticBlues · January 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Soooo... buy the game pack and don't do the quests?

I thought I explained why skill points are important to serious players.
Even after you have done all skyshards and all quests,
there still are not enough skill points for all important skills/weapons.
Each skill point counts, so I cannot afford to buy a DLC and then not play the quests.

First the ganker DLC, then the thieves DLC, later this year the murderer DLC.
Why so much dedicated love for the dark side?
Does ESO want to become a kind of GTA?

Xendyn · January 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Soooo... buy the game pack and don't do the quests?

Nobody really becomes a vampire hunter in ESO. It's more like AOE spam in PVP and hope one or two of the people you're killing are vampires.

If you really want to role play, just stand somewhere inconspicuous in Hew's Bane and whisper to people, "Don't do that. What would your mother think of you? It's time to go home and rethink your life."

Or, "I hope you rot in prison."
Or, "Nice purse, *** ***."

It's like griefing... with words!

No, no it goes like this:

wayfarerx · January 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Why so much dedicated love for the dark side?

The Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood are staples of any TES game and are sorely missed in ESO.

You could think of this like balancing the scales a little bit. In the base game we have to beat up necromancers and spend most of our time fighting the Daedra. What if I wanted to worship Boethia and raise an army of skeletons? Or if I wanted to say "To hell with Nirn, c'mon Bal lets wreck this place?" Nope, hero mode required.

Acrolas · January 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

I thought I explained why skill points are important to serious players.

Not really.

There are 348 skill points for 517 options meaning you're only at 67% if you have everything so far.

If the main quest of TG gives you between 1 and 3 points, you're still nowhere close to tree completion. It'll be years before a max character is obtainable so it's nothing to obsess about now.

Enodoc · January 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

Actually in Morrowint there was always an alternative...if all else failed just kill the quest giver and the questline is done.

Enodoc · January 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS, does this mean that all we fans who will buy the DLC have to become a criminal to follow the quest line?
Please give us us options to choose the other side and become a criminal hunter!

It is the Thieves Guild DLC, after all. Since you say you come into ESO as a TES player, you'll know what I'm getting at when I say that, in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you also had to join the Thieves Guild to follow the Thieves Guild questline; there was no alternative "not Thieves Guild" faction questline that ran in parallel, so there's no reason to expect one here either.

Saying that, I would love to be able to join a guard or mercenary faction, such as the Iron Wheel, to take down the Thieves Guild, but I wouldn't really expect that to be included, as it's not how the Thieves Guild has worked in previous TES.

Actually in Morrowint there was always an alternative...if all else failed just kill the quest giver and the questline is done.

OK technically yes, but that just breaks the questline, it doesn't give you an alternative resolution. And if you tried that for the Main Quest in Morrowind, you'd get an excellent message about severing the thread of prophecy. They didn't expand that to the Guild questlines, because they're not part of the storyline, but I like to think of the same message in any case, as you will have severed the intended path of the quests.
"With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created."

(For Dark Brotherhood, on the other hand, you do get an alternative resolution for killing the quest giver in Oblivion and Skyrim, but this is about TG, not DB.)

kirk_lewis_ESO · January 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Soooo... buy the game pack and don't do the quests?

Nobody really becomes a vampire hunter in ESO. It's more like AOE spam in PVP and hope one or two of the people you're killing are vampires.

If you really want to role play, just stand somewhere inconspicuous in Hew's Bane and whisper to people, "Don't do that. What would your mother think of you? It's time to go home and rethink your life."

Or, "I hope you rot in prison."
Or, "Nice purse, *** ***."

It's like griefing... with words!

I laughed so much when i read this. Now i want chat bubbles to do this.

Thevampirenight · January 2016

Thieves guild is where its going to be at not the Iron Wheel's, many have been wanting thieves guild and dark brotherhood for a long time. So expect lots of criminal scum in the next few week's. I do agree it should be an option to choose either side. Like the dawnguard dlc. For Dawnguard dlc I only joined the vampires, never really did the dawnguard side. Was not a fan of the vigelents of stendarr.

BabeestorGor · January 2016

Its the way games work now.
Too many players expect to do everything on one character so its not profitable to make alternate routes for the oddballs who actually roleplay their characters in a rpg.
Don't blame ZOS, blame your fellow players.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

It's a passive skill line, it won't make or break anything you want to do. Don't join if you don't like it.

Thevampirenight · January 2016

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

They have to be very careful about active skills from Exp Pac content in order to avoid too many posts about the upcoming p2w options. Now, don't get me wrong, I would like to see something...maybe an ultimate and two active skills like WW or Vampire, but I understand why active skills are tricky to introduce.

BabeestorGor · January 2016

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

Why?
Nightblade already covers it and if you aren't a NB why should you get those abilities?

Thevampirenight · January 2016

BabeestorGor wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

Why?
Nightblade already covers it and if you aren't a NB why should you get those abilities?

There is always other abilties, for example they can give like a ult that summons the Ebony Blade for twenty seconds for you to wield. They can have abilties related to Sithis and the Nightmother.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

BabeestorGor wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

Why?
Nightblade already covers it and if you aren't a NB why should you get those abilities?

That's the precise reason I'd be far more in favor of something closer to an Ult and one or two active skills not directly covered by the NB class. The classes (as limited as they can appear at first glance) are comprehensive from an RPG design point of view and they don't need to be tread upon by constant power creep from new abilities.

Passive skill lines can do a lot of heavy lifting over time and they can carefully add active skills to base game pieces (such as Racial Ultimates)

JD2013 · January 2016

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

They're not.

Thevampirenight · January 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

BabeestorGor wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They better have a full abilties skill line for darkbrotherhood though.

Why?
Nightblade already covers it and if you aren't a NB why should you get those abilities?

That's the precise reason I'd be far more in favor of something closer to an Ult and one or two active skills not directly covered by the NB class. The classes (as limited as they can appear at first glance) are comprehensive from an RPG design point of view and they don't need to be tread upon by constant power creep from new abilities.

Passive skill lines can do a lot of heavy lifting over time and they can carefully add active skills to base game pieces (such as Racial Ultimates)

Well, even though the nightblade has skills for assasination, still they got a bunch of things they can do to be creative for a full dark brotherhood skillline. I expect them to at sometime add abilties to theives guild and darkbrotherhood , more out of popular demand then anything. It would not be pay to win because they are dlc skilllines and you got to get the dlc, basically by subbing once and then aquiring skillline I do bet they would make it so you can level it without doing thieves guild quests. Because they would most likly be adding thieves guild hideouts to every major city in addition to the outlaws refuges. That can be accessed normal game once you entered the dlc at least once and did one of the quests. Same with dark brotherhood I am really curious to how they are going to add them now I can't wait!