Why no damage changes now???

  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 2:59PM
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    @Yoyuyi999

    I'm talking about your 23k buffed Spell Resistance build specifically. You stand there with your weapon sheathed and take 50% of 50% damage from all magicka sources. Throw up wings/shuffle and it's a joke. 16k Dragon Leaps be damned, and you have the nuts to talk about Hardened Ward.

    And it's not like you're building for it either. You're building for damage like every other stamina build. You just get it for free.

    To be clear, I'm not calling you out, I'm showing you the math. I watch you running around Alessia Bridge like a winged leaping monster. I know you feel OP, because you are. Don't even get me started on that 11k Vigor tooltip, and that 1k Rally tick.


    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 5:53PM
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    You're a MagiBlade now Feng. You'll soon learn it's not all Wards and Roses on this side of the fence, if you can even stomach it for long. BWB doesn't count.

    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 3:38PM
  • Joy_Division
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    With the exception of ults, I can sort of see what you mean, however, when you take into account the entire PVP environment in the upcoming patch, I think you'll find that stam is in a stronger position with the changes to mobility and siege. Magicka builds are profoundly more affected by the changes to Retreating and stam damage from siege than stam users. I think you'll find that it will balance itself out in a rather messy way.

    I see your point. But mag builds also have a whole lot utility and heals available to them along with abilities like purge. Where you lack in mobility you gain in other ways. On a side note, I'm sure we will see more ppl using charging maneuvers now.

    vigor is the best heal in the game after BOL so tagging magica with the utility of heals is total nonsense

    U would take healing ward over vigor.

    Not necessarily. I'm stuck with a crappy restoration staff for ward whereas vigor fits in nicely with whatever build I want. Also, if I use ward, there is no guarantee that I get the heal. If I'm in a group, I'd prefer a member use vigor than ward.
    "Dragon leap is NOT overperforming. You are underperforming." - ZarkingFrued

    Joy's Old but still useful for newer players guide for beating VMA

  • FENGRUSH
    FENGRUSH
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    Xeven wrote: »
    You're a MagiBlade now Feng. You'll soon learn it's not all Wards and Roses on this side of the fence, if you can even stomach it for long. BWB doesn't count.

    I played on azuras as well yesterday for half the day, it really isnt much different than BWB for the most part.
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    I just mean magicka damage. You won't be hitting good players anywhere near as hard as your Stam Sorc can, but then I think you just plan on blowing s*** up with proxy bats. I can't wait to see that.
  • bowmanz607
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    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    It is easier to stack max mag than stamina. Also, there is not much of a difference in spell and armor pen. Spell pen gets from light armor, desto staff, nirn, sharpened, champ tree. Armor pen has 2h/dw, sharpened, champ tree. Further, light reduces by a set amount and not a percentage which 9/10 is better than the percentage. Additionally, mag and Stam builds have one weapon each that reduces spell/armor. That is 1h/sh and desto.

    So now let's take a look at your dk scenario. They also likely have 23k armor too. A mag build already cuts through 5k. So that is 18k. Now add in breach and your sitting at roughly 13k. Now roughly 25%-28% is cut through by desto and nirn/sharpened. So now your down to about 10k spell resist left. That number is reduced to roughly 7k with champ points.

    Now let's look at Stam.with major fracture that brings it to roughly 18k. Now let's say 20% is ignored by 2h. That bring you to roughly 14.5k. Now add in sharpened. Now your sitting at roughly 12k armor.add in champ tree and your at roughly 8.5k.

    So you were saying...

    Additionally, mag can ignore a set 10k with light and breach. That 8s a set number. Meaning that light armor is even more effective the less resistance a player has where Stam penetration is less effective the less armor they have.

    You mention that everyone puts points into reducing mag damage too. That is true currently, but not pts. Since the changes I mention are regarding pts, this point is irrelevant.

    Get off the wb ambush spamming nonesense. Wb is no different then frags or flare etc. Also, mag blades have am version of ambush.

    So again, yoh were saying...
  • olsborg
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    Its about time they restore the dmg balance, I see it as a balance not making it more unbalanced..
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
    Imperial Templar, stamina
    Redguard Warden, stamina

    Aldmeri Dominion!
    PC EU
    PvP only
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    With the exception of ults, I can sort of see what you mean, however, when you take into account the entire PVP environment in the upcoming patch, I think you'll find that stam is in a stronger position with the changes to mobility and siege. Magicka builds are profoundly more affected by the changes to Retreating and stam damage from siege than stam users. I think you'll find that it will balance itself out in a rather messy way.

    I see your point. But mag builds also have a whole lot utility and heals available to them along with abilities like purge. Where you lack in mobility you gain in other ways. On a side note, I'm sure we will see more ppl using charging maneuvers now.

    vigor is the best heal in the game after BOL so tagging magica with the utility of heals is total nonsense

    U would take healing ward over vigor.

    Not necessarily. I'm stuck with a crappy restoration staff for ward whereas vigor fits in nicely with whatever build I want. Also, if I use ward, there is no guarantee that I get the heal. If I'm in a group, I'd prefer a member use vigor than ward.

    But again, every class has a hot or heal of some sort for mag builds that rivals vigor. So no need for a Resto if so chosen
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    It is easier to stack max mag than stamina. Also, there is not much of a difference in spell and armor pen. Spell pen gets from light armor, desto staff, nirn, sharpened, champ tree. Armor pen has 2h/dw, sharpened, champ tree. Further, light reduces by a set amount and not a percentage which 9/10 is better than the percentage. Additionally, mag and Stam builds have one weapon each that reduces spell/armor. That is 1h/sh and desto.

    So now let's take a look at your dk scenario. They also likely have 23k armor too. A mag build already cuts through 5k. So that is 18k. Now add in breach and your sitting at roughly 13k. Now roughly 25%-28% is cut through by desto and nirn/sharpened. So now your down to about 10k spell resist left. That number is reduced to roughly 7k with champ points.

    Now let's look at Stam.with major fracture that brings it to roughly 18k. Now let's say 20% is ignored by 2h. That bring you to roughly 14.5k. Now add in sharpened. Now your sitting at roughly 12k armor.add in champ tree and your at roughly 8.5k.

    So you were saying...

    Additionally, mag can ignore a set 10k with light and breach. That 8s a set number. Meaning that light armor is even more effective the less resistance a player has where Stam penetration is less effective the less armor they have.

    You mention that everyone puts points into reducing mag damage too. That is true currently, but not pts. Since the changes I mention are regarding pts, this point is irrelevant.

    Get off the wb ambush spamming nonesense. Wb is no different then frags or flare etc. Also, mag blades have am version of ambush.

    So again, yoh were saying...

    You have no idea how it works. Read the link I posted.

    b7a7c91d99b14abfe8c893ee2f089f23.png

    Spell Resistance: 23000
    Penetration with 5 Light: 4984
    Legendary Ninrnhoned 0.18

    ((23000)*(1-0.18)-4984)/66000 = 21%

    This isn't just numbers on your monitor either. It translates exactly to the magic damage in Cyrodiil. Magic damage SUCKS, which is why we have to burst with everything we've got to actually kill something, maybe.

    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 4:47PM
  • Ishammael
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    But again, every class has a hot or heal of some sort for mag builds that rivals vigor. So no need for a Resto if so chosen

    Every class has a Heal or HoT that rivals vigor? What the hell are you talking about? Vigor is 10-15k (tooltip) over 5s. Have you tried Dragon Blood? Where is the heal button on a NB? By god I would take vigor over healing ward for a Magicka DK or Magicka NB. Every, single, time. Do you know why? Because i would have to use a Resto staff!
    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    Y'all need to listen to Xevenex and Blab on this one:
    1. Weapon damage stacking can achieve ~1.5-2x the values of spell damage stacking on the average build. This is because of set bonuses and passives. Damage output is significantly higher as well because LA/HA weaves are far more potent.
    2. Spell resistance is FAR easier to get than physical resistance and FAR harder to penetrate. Breton DK, anyone? Passive +6500 spell resist. Also, major Fracture is readily available -- major Breach is not.
    3. Stamina skills get additional 20% cost reduction compared to magicka: passive in weapon skill lines.
  • bowmanz607
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    Ishammael wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    But again, every class has a hot or heal of some sort for mag builds that rivals vigor. So no need for a Resto if so chosen

    Every class has a Heal or HoT that rivals vigor? What the hell are you talking about? Vigor is 10-15k (tooltip) over 5s. Have you tried Dragon Blood? Where is the heal button on a NB? By god I would take vigor over healing ward for a Magicka DK or Magicka NB. Every, single, time. Do you know why? Because i would have to use a Resto staff!
    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    Y'all need to listen to Xevenex and Blab on this one:
    1. Weapon damage stacking can achieve ~1.5-2x the values of spell damage stacking on the average build. This is because of set bonuses and passives. Damage output is significantly higher as well because LA/HA weaves are far more potent.
    2. Spell resistance is FAR easier to get than physical resistance and FAR harder to penetrate. Breton DK, anyone? Passive +6500 spell resist. Also, major Fracture is readily available -- major Breach is not.
    3. Stamina skills get additional 20% cost reduction compared to magicka: passive in weapon skill lines.

    Yup, I can get strife to tick like that. Sorc heals is solid especially on pts. Templar is obvious. Dk whip and stone fist. Also, you do have dragon blood, but it does need to be reworked. So ya all classes. Again, I concede weapon damage can stack easier, but max magika can also stack easier than max stam. Yes, stam hits harder on live cause champnpoints. That will no longer be an issue with the balance to the tree.also, mag skills generally cost less then stam overall. Besides, I don't want to here this nonsense about cost of skills. No one has sustain and resource issues so that point is irrelevant imo.
  • FENGRUSH
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    Xeven wrote: »
    I just mean magicka damage. You won't be hitting good players anywhere near as hard as your Stam Sorc can, but then I think you just plan on blowing s*** up with proxy bats. I can't wait to see that.

    The burst potential of magblade and frankly magicka anything is higher than a stam sorc. Det is doing like twice as much as a meteor from a stam sorc. Ult options are a joke for stam sorc.
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    also, mag skills generally cost less then stam overall

    You've gone bats*** crazy dude. Your sentences are barely even coherent, and you have nothing, absolutely nothing grounded in fact. It's just you banging away at the keyboard.

    Magic skills cost far, far more than stamina skills, and stamina sustain is much easier to obtain while also maintaining high damage. Also, Unchained.

    Go home, you're drunk.

  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    Xeven wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    It is easier to stack max mag than stamina. Also, there is not much of a difference in spell and armor pen. Spell pen gets from light armor, desto staff, nirn, sharpened, champ tree. Armor pen has 2h/dw, sharpened, champ tree. Further, light reduces by a set amount and not a percentage which 9/10 is better than the percentage. Additionally, mag and Stam builds have one weapon each that reduces spell/armor. That is 1h/sh and desto.

    So now let's take a look at your dk scenario. They also likely have 23k armor too. A mag build already cuts through 5k. So that is 18k. Now add in breach and your sitting at roughly 13k. Now roughly 25%-28% is cut through by desto and nirn/sharpened. So now your down to about 10k spell resist left. That number is reduced to roughly 7k with champ points.

    Now let's look at Stam.with major fracture that brings it to roughly 18k. Now let's say 20% is ignored by 2h. That bring you to roughly 14.5k. Now add in sharpened. Now your sitting at roughly 12k armor.add in champ tree and your at roughly 8.5k.

    So you were saying...

    Additionally, mag can ignore a set 10k with light and breach. That 8s a set number. Meaning that light armor is even more effective the less resistance a player has where Stam penetration is less effective the less armor they have.

    You mention that everyone puts points into reducing mag damage too. That is true currently, but not pts. Since the changes I mention are regarding pts, this point is irrelevant.

    Get off the wb ambush spamming nonesense. Wb is no different then frags or flare etc. Also, mag blades have am version of ambush.

    So again, yoh were saying...

    You have no idea how it works. Read the link I posted.

    b7a7c91d99b14abfe8c893ee2f089f23.png

    Spell Resistance: 23000
    Penetration with 5 Light: 4984
    Legendary Ninrnhoned 0.18

    ((23000)*(1-0.18)-4984)/66000 = 21%

    This isn't just numbers on your monitor either. It translates exactly to the magic damage in Cyrodiil. Magic damage SUCKS, which is why we have to burst with everything we've got to actually kill something, maybe.

    Ok. Now add in armor numbers and what not. Seems to me you would get roughly the same number in mitigation with armor.

    Resist=23000
    Pen with 2h= 4600
    I believe legendary sharpened is 0.14 might be .16

    ((23000)* (1.0-.16)-4600)/66000= 22%

    So by that formula mag is hitting hard. So why is it not? Because champ tree on live. Which is not the case on pts which is where I am asking for the change
  • bowmanz607
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    Xeven wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    also, mag skills generally cost less then stam overall

    You've gone bats*** crazy dude. Your sentences are barely even coherent, and you have nothing, absolutely nothing grounded in fact. It's just you banging away at the keyboard.

    Magic skills cost far, far more than stamina skills, and stamina sustain is much easier to obtain while also maintaining high damage. Also, Unchained.

    Go home, you're drunk.

    Lol OK and what you have provided I have countered in much the same way. Bottom line is, no one had a problem with austain. If you do your doing it wrong. Additionally, you can't generalize how much something cost. Every skill is different. For instance strife cost 700 roughly. Should I compare that to supreme attack sitting at roughly 1400. Or maybe I compare it to punter which is roughly the same. I find it very easy to obtain high damage a sustain for both. But alas, this thread is about damage and not sustain.
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    It is easier to stack max mag than stamina. Also, there is not much of a difference in spell and armor pen. Spell pen gets from light armor, desto staff, nirn, sharpened, champ tree. Armor pen has 2h/dw, sharpened, champ tree. Further, light reduces by a set amount and not a percentage which 9/10 is better than the percentage. Additionally, mag and Stam builds have one weapon each that reduces spell/armor. That is 1h/sh and desto.

    So now let's take a look at your dk scenario. They also likely have 23k armor too. A mag build already cuts through 5k. So that is 18k. Now add in breach and your sitting at roughly 13k. Now roughly 25%-28% is cut through by desto and nirn/sharpened. So now your down to about 10k spell resist left. That number is reduced to roughly 7k with champ points.

    Now let's look at Stam.with major fracture that brings it to roughly 18k. Now let's say 20% is ignored by 2h. That bring you to roughly 14.5k. Now add in sharpened. Now your sitting at roughly 12k armor.add in champ tree and your at roughly 8.5k.

    So you were saying...

    Additionally, mag can ignore a set 10k with light and breach. That 8s a set number. Meaning that light armor is even more effective the less resistance a player has where Stam penetration is less effective the less armor they have.

    You mention that everyone puts points into reducing mag damage too. That is true currently, but not pts. Since the changes I mention are regarding pts, this point is irrelevant.

    Get off the wb ambush spamming nonesense. Wb is no different then frags or flare etc. Also, mag blades have am version of ambush.

    So again, yoh were saying...

    You have no idea how it works. Read the link I posted.

    b7a7c91d99b14abfe8c893ee2f089f23.png

    Spell Resistance: 23000
    Penetration with 5 Light: 4984
    Legendary Ninrnhoned 0.18

    ((23000)*(1-0.18)-4984)/66000 = 21%

    This isn't just numbers on your monitor either. It translates exactly to the magic damage in Cyrodiil. Magic damage SUCKS, which is why we have to burst with everything we've got to actually kill something, maybe.

    Ok. Now add in armor numbers and what not. Seems to me you would get roughly the same number in mitigation with armor.

    Resist=23000
    Pen with 2h= 4600
    I believe legendary sharpened is 0.14 might be .16

    ((23000)* (1.0-.16)-4600)/66000= 22%

    So by that formula mag is hitting hard. So why is it not? Because champ tree on live. Which is not the case on pts which is where I am asking for the change

    Again you're going bonkers. You're comparing stamina mitigation to stamina penetration, and you didn't add 20% penetration for a maul, or the free major fracture that stamina gets with actually useful damage abilities.

    The physical resistance of light armor is 12k with 1M1H, in which case you are penetrating it 100% even WITHOUT major fracture.

    I'm done talking to you.

    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 5:14PM
  • bowmanz607
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    Xeven wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    It is easier to stack max mag than stamina. Also, there is not much of a difference in spell and armor pen. Spell pen gets from light armor, desto staff, nirn, sharpened, champ tree. Armor pen has 2h/dw, sharpened, champ tree. Further, light reduces by a set amount and not a percentage which 9/10 is better than the percentage. Additionally, mag and Stam builds have one weapon each that reduces spell/armor. That is 1h/sh and desto.

    So now let's take a look at your dk scenario. They also likely have 23k armor too. A mag build already cuts through 5k. So that is 18k. Now add in breach and your sitting at roughly 13k. Now roughly 25%-28% is cut through by desto and nirn/sharpened. So now your down to about 10k spell resist left. That number is reduced to roughly 7k with champ points.

    Now let's look at Stam.with major fracture that brings it to roughly 18k. Now let's say 20% is ignored by 2h. That bring you to roughly 14.5k. Now add in sharpened. Now your sitting at roughly 12k armor.add in champ tree and your at roughly 8.5k.

    So you were saying...

    Additionally, mag can ignore a set 10k with light and breach. That 8s a set number. Meaning that light armor is even more effective the less resistance a player has where Stam penetration is less effective the less armor they have.

    You mention that everyone puts points into reducing mag damage too. That is true currently, but not pts. Since the changes I mention are regarding pts, this point is irrelevant.

    Get off the wb ambush spamming nonesense. Wb is no different then frags or flare etc. Also, mag blades have am version of ambush.

    So again, yoh were saying...

    You have no idea how it works. Read the link I posted.

    b7a7c91d99b14abfe8c893ee2f089f23.png

    Spell Resistance: 23000
    Penetration with 5 Light: 4984
    Legendary Ninrnhoned 0.18

    ((23000)*(1-0.18)-4984)/66000 = 21%

    This isn't just numbers on your monitor either. It translates exactly to the magic damage in Cyrodiil. Magic damage SUCKS, which is why we have to burst with everything we've got to actually kill something, maybe.

    Ok. Now add in armor numbers and what not. Seems to me you would get roughly the same number in mitigation with armor.

    Resist=23000
    Pen with 2h= 4600
    I believe legendary sharpened is 0.14 might be .16

    ((23000)* (1.0-.16)-4600)/66000= 22%

    So by that formula mag is hitting hard. So why is it not? Because champ tree on live. Which is not the case on pts which is where I am asking for the change

    Again you're going bonkers. You're comparing stamina mitigation to stamina penetration, and you didn't add 20% penetration for a mace, or the free major fracture that stamina gets with actually useful damage abilities.

    The physical resistance of light armor is 12k with 1M1H, in which case you are penetrating it 100% even WITHOUT major fracture.

    I'm done talking to you.

    lol o geez. i used your formula provided to get my numbers. I used the 20% of mace as the flat mitigation. (4600 in our hypo). Additionally, what do you mean free major fracture? most use WB which does not provide that. you need to go one-shield. or perhaps suprise attack, which is class specific. Additionally, you failed to include breach in your formula. why should I have to use it in mine? Desto has breach. feel free to use it. let me get this straight. it was fine for you to introduce mag mitigation in an argument about penetration, but when i do you get mad. hmmm.

    feel free to be done talking to me. You seem to be getting mad that i have countered your points. I am also curious how i pierce through all your physical resistane? the only ability to reduce a set amount is fracture. the rest is percentage based, so mathmatecally you would have resistance still there. Now look on the flip side. Medium armor gives 10k spell resistance. add in major buff to get 15k. now subtract 5k (breach) and another 5k (LA) and your left with 5k which is being reduced further by nirn which gets you still roughly to the same as physical resistance in the flip scenario.

    so... ya...

  • Xeven
    Xeven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    I just mean magicka damage. You won't be hitting good players anywhere near as hard as your Stam Sorc can, but then I think you just plan on blowing s*** up with proxy bats. I can't wait to see that.

    The burst potential of magblade and frankly magicka anything is higher than a stam sorc. Det is doing like twice as much as a meteor from a stam sorc. Ult options are a joke for stam sorc.

    I agree. Stam sorc is in a really bad place right now. I'm just saying applying half your tooltip damage is much harder (impossible barring noobs). It's more like one quarter to one third of your tooltip, which really sucks.


    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 5:35PM
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xeven wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    This and Armor Penetration is by far easier to stack than Spell Penetration, and Major Fracture is much more easy to find than Major Breach. Currently the only sources of Major Breach are Mark Target and Weakness To Elements.

    Almost every stamina build is fully penetrating Light Armor. It's like we may as well be wearing nothing at all, meanwhile, your average stamina DK is running around with 23k buffed Spell Resistance.

    Currently the most penetration a magicka build can get is by wearing 5 light with a Legendary Nirnhoned Staff, which is like nothing. A DK with 23k buffed Spell Resistance is mitigating 21% of that magic damage passively through armor alone, on top of 25% from CP. EVERYONE with 501 CP is rolling around with 18-25% magic damage mitigation because of the Unchained Passive.

    The sick reality is this. Take your magicka tooltip, cut that in half, then cut it in half again with Battle Spirit. That is what you are hitting people for in Cyrodiil.

    Cry me a river empowered Wrecking Blow/Ambush spammers. It is YOU who are on top of the damage food chain.

    It is easier to stack max mag than stamina. Also, there is not much of a difference in spell and armor pen. Spell pen gets from light armor, desto staff, nirn, sharpened, champ tree. Armor pen has 2h/dw, sharpened, champ tree. Further, light reduces by a set amount and not a percentage which 9/10 is better than the percentage. Additionally, mag and Stam builds have one weapon each that reduces spell/armor. That is 1h/sh and desto.

    So now let's take a look at your dk scenario. They also likely have 23k armor too. A mag build already cuts through 5k. So that is 18k. Now add in breach and your sitting at roughly 13k. Now roughly 25%-28% is cut through by desto and nirn/sharpened. So now your down to about 10k spell resist left. That number is reduced to roughly 7k with champ points.

    Now let's look at Stam.with major fracture that brings it to roughly 18k. Now let's say 20% is ignored by 2h. That bring you to roughly 14.5k. Now add in sharpened. Now your sitting at roughly 12k armor.add in champ tree and your at roughly 8.5k.

    So you were saying...

    Additionally, mag can ignore a set 10k with light and breach. That 8s a set number. Meaning that light armor is even more effective the less resistance a player has where Stam penetration is less effective the less armor they have.

    You mention that everyone puts points into reducing mag damage too. That is true currently, but not pts. Since the changes I mention are regarding pts, this point is irrelevant.

    Get off the wb ambush spamming nonesense. Wb is no different then frags or flare etc. Also, mag blades have am version of ambush.

    So again, yoh were saying...

    You have no idea how it works. Read the link I posted.

    b7a7c91d99b14abfe8c893ee2f089f23.png

    Spell Resistance: 23000
    Penetration with 5 Light: 4984
    Legendary Ninrnhoned 0.18

    ((23000)*(1-0.18)-4984)/66000 = 21%

    This isn't just numbers on your monitor either. It translates exactly to the magic damage in Cyrodiil. Magic damage SUCKS, which is why we have to burst with everything we've got to actually kill something, maybe.

    Ok. Now add in armor numbers and what not. Seems to me you would get roughly the same number in mitigation with armor.

    Resist=23000
    Pen with 2h= 4600
    I believe legendary sharpened is 0.14 might be .16

    ((23000)* (1.0-.16)-4600)/66000= 22%

    So by that formula mag is hitting hard. So why is it not? Because champ tree on live. Which is not the case on pts which is where I am asking for the change

    Again you're going bonkers. You're comparing stamina mitigation to stamina penetration, and you didn't add 20% penetration for a maul, or the free major fracture that stamina gets with actually useful damage abilities.

    The physical resistance of light armor is 12k with 1M1H, in which case you are penetrating it 100% even WITHOUT major fracture.

    I'm done talking to you.

    i would like to add that i dont mind being wrong. you have simply failed to prove i am wrong. It just seemed to further my point. Feel free to elaborate more or show more proof etc. i am always open to learning more.
  • Yoyuyi999
    Yoyuyi999
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xeven wrote: »
    @Yoyuyi999

    I'm talking about your 23k buffed Spell Resistance build specifically. You stand there with your weapon sheathed and take 50% of 50% damage from all magicka sources. Throw up wings/shuffle and it's a joke. 16k Dragon Leaps be damned, and you have the nuts to talk about Hardened Ward.

    And it's not like you're building for it either. You're building for damage like every other stamina build. You just get it for free.

    To be clear, I'm not calling you out, I'm showing you the math. I watch you running around Alessia Bridge like a winged leaping monster. I know you feel OP, because you are. Don't even get me started on that 11k Vigor tooltip, and that 1k Rally tick.


    I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Stam DK's are OP. Almost any stam spec is OP, just because I bash Hardened Ward doesn't mean my spec isn't OP either. And you said yourself, that's my resistance buffed. Hardened negates crits for crying out loud. Not like Impen which mitigates, Hardened just kills crit. Ontop of this, 2 of my armor pieces are reinforced along with a Heavy armor Helm.

    GotDro smacks me with damage with 13k frags AVERAGE. Kodi kicks my ass on his sorc, same with Cyrus and Act of Rage and Germantrocity.

    We're all OP in each way and no one is denying that. 16k Leaps is gone next patch (I don't even hit that much regardless). Yes stamina needed a nerf and it got it.

    I felt just as, if not MORE tanky when I played on a sorceror. I survived just as well on a stamplar, stamblade, and a v8 Magblade. My class does not carry me and people who play with me know this. On my DK I definently feel more tanky than the stamblade, magblade, and stamplar but the kill time on these classss were much higher and I had better overall sustain. The ONLY class where I had incredibly high kill time and immense tankiness was a sorc. And I'm not saying my DK doesn't hit hard, because it DOES. But the fact that I'm using a S&B means I rely on sustained dmg thru animation cancels and I'm not going to be bursting anyone down.

    Roll a Stam DK and openworld with it, you'll miss your sorc.

    Not to mention I was grouping with my DK for the past week. So i have group support with me there.

    Characters:

    Magicka Dragonknight, Yoyuyi
    Stamina Dragonknight, -Jombo
    Magicka Templar, -Dombo
    Magicka Sorceror, -Mombo
    Magicka Nightblade, -Wombo
    Magicka Dragonknight, -Combo

    ~~~

    Youtube
    Twitch

    ~~~

    Former GM of Mighty

    ~~~

    http://imgur.com/a/RWZZ7
  • Yoyuyi999
    Yoyuyi999
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yoyuyi999 wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    @Yoyuyi999

    I'm talking about your 23k buffed Spell Resistance build specifically. You stand there with your weapon sheathed and take 50% of 50% damage from all magicka sources. Throw up wings/shuffle and it's a joke. 16k Dragon Leaps be damned, and you have the nuts to talk about Hardened Ward.

    And it's not like you're building for it either. You're building for damage like every other stamina build. You just get it for free.

    To be clear, I'm not calling you out, I'm showing you the math. I watch you running around Alessia Bridge like a winged leaping monster. I know you feel OP, because you are. Don't even get me started on that 11k Vigor tooltip, and that 1k Rally tick.


    I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Stam DK's are OP. Almost any stam spec is OP, just because I bash Hardened Ward doesn't mean my spec isn't OP either. And you said yourself, that's my resistance buffed. Hardened negates crits for crying out loud. Not like Impen which mitigates, Hardened just kills crit. Ontop of this, 2 of my armor pieces are reinforced along with a Heavy armor Helm.

    GotDro smacks me with damage with 13k frags AVERAGE. Kodi kicks my ass on his sorc, same with Cyrus and Act of Rage and Germantrocity.

    We're all OP in each way and no one is denying that. 16k Leaps is gone next patch (I don't even hit that much regardless). Yes stamina needed a nerf and it got it.

    I felt just as, if not MORE tanky when I played on a sorceror. I survived just as well on a stamplar, stamblade, and a v8 Magblade. My class does not carry me and people who play with me know this. On my DK I definently feel more tanky than the stamblade, magblade, and stamplar but the kill time on these classss were much higher and I had better overall sustain. The ONLY class where I had incredibly high kill time and immense tankiness was a sorc. And I'm not saying my DK doesn't hit hard, because it DOES. But the fact that I'm using a S&B means I rely on sustained dmg thru animation cancels and I'm not going to be bursting anyone down.

    Roll a Stam DK and openworld with it, you'll miss your sorc.

    Not to mention I was grouping with my DK for the past week. So i have group support with me there.

    One more thing I should note; I do think openworld and in duels a Mag Sorc is better than a stam DK.

    BUT, as soon as you put a Stam DK v a Mag Sorc, then I'd say a DK would beat the Mag Sorc in terms of 1v1.
    Characters:

    Magicka Dragonknight, Yoyuyi
    Stamina Dragonknight, -Jombo
    Magicka Templar, -Dombo
    Magicka Sorceror, -Mombo
    Magicka Nightblade, -Wombo
    Magicka Dragonknight, -Combo

    ~~~

    Youtube
    Twitch

    ~~~

    Former GM of Mighty

    ~~~

    http://imgur.com/a/RWZZ7
  • Xeven
    Xeven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yoyuyi999 wrote: »
    GotDro smacks me with damage with 13k frags AVERAGE. Kodi kicks my ass on his sorc, same with Cyrus and Act of Rage and Germantrocity.

    This is BS man, and you know it is. Top end PROCCED frag tooltips are 16k, crit that, and its 24k. Half that with battle spirit is a 12k crit on a NAKED player with no CP or impen.

    That doesnt happen AVERAGE. Youre making *** up now.



    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 11:22PM
  • Yoyuyi999
    Yoyuyi999
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xeven wrote: »
    Yoyuyi999 wrote: »
    GotDro smacks me with damage with 13k frags AVERAGE. Kodi kicks my ass on his sorc, same with Cyrus and Act of Rage and Germantrocity.

    This is BS man, and you know it is. Top end PROCCED frag tooltips are 16k, crit that, and its 24k. Half that with battle spirit is a 12k crit on a NAKED player with no CP or impen.

    That doesnt happen AVERAGE. Youre making *** up now.



    Ye your right, 13k is if I let my guard down and he buffs up :)

    I'd say 9k average if we're talking real ***, oh and thats with 80 into Hardy.
    Characters:

    Magicka Dragonknight, Yoyuyi
    Stamina Dragonknight, -Jombo
    Magicka Templar, -Dombo
    Magicka Sorceror, -Mombo
    Magicka Nightblade, -Wombo
    Magicka Dragonknight, -Combo

    ~~~

    Youtube
    Twitch

    ~~~

    Former GM of Mighty

    ~~~

    http://imgur.com/a/RWZZ7
  • Xeven
    Xeven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok then =)

    9k on an empowerd proced crit that got through shuffle with your wings and resistance buff down.

    Very. Extremely. Rare.

    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 11:36PM
  • Yoyuyi999
    Yoyuyi999
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xeven wrote: »
    Yoyuyi999 wrote: »
    GotDro smacks me with damage with 13k frags AVERAGE. Kodi kicks my ass on his sorc, same with Cyrus and Act of Rage and Germantrocity.

    This is BS man, and you know it is. Top end PROCCED frag tooltips are 16k, crit that, and its 24k. Half that with battle spirit is a 12k crit on a NAKED player with no CP or impen.

    That doesnt happen AVERAGE. Youre making *** up now.



    Another thing, GotDro is actually full damage, I have a small scale video on my channel where I hit a dude for 12.9k frag where I have no undaunted and slapped on gear. 35k Mag, 10k shields.
    Characters:

    Magicka Dragonknight, Yoyuyi
    Stamina Dragonknight, -Jombo
    Magicka Templar, -Dombo
    Magicka Sorceror, -Mombo
    Magicka Nightblade, -Wombo
    Magicka Dragonknight, -Combo

    ~~~

    Youtube
    Twitch

    ~~~

    Former GM of Mighty

    ~~~

    http://imgur.com/a/RWZZ7
  • Xeven
    Xeven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dude had no CP and no Spell Resistance then. We can't use that as an example when talking about balancing high level duels.
  • Xeven
    Xeven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh and by the way, I was absolutely wrecking *** on PTS stam DK. So we can say hey I played sorc on PTS it was easy. We can also say hey I played DK on PTS it was easy.

    In general I think we agree but our point of views are different. You cant touch Hardened Ward without rebalancing the whole game.

    Edited by Xeven on March 3, 2016 11:44PM
  • Yoyuyi999
    Yoyuyi999
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xeven wrote: »
    Oh and by the way, I was absolutely wrecking *** on PTS stam DK. So we can say hey I played sorc on PTS it was easy. We can also say hey I played DK on PTS it was easy.

    In general I think we agree but our point of views are different. You cant touch Hardened Ward without rebalancing the whole game.

    Sorc on PTS? I'm playing that *** live, openworld and 1v1s. And DKs are good in a 1v1 enviroment? What's your point? I never said it wasnt.
    Characters:

    Magicka Dragonknight, Yoyuyi
    Stamina Dragonknight, -Jombo
    Magicka Templar, -Dombo
    Magicka Sorceror, -Mombo
    Magicka Nightblade, -Wombo
    Magicka Dragonknight, -Combo

    ~~~

    Youtube
    Twitch

    ~~~

    Former GM of Mighty

    ~~~

    http://imgur.com/a/RWZZ7
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