The only thing faction matters for is PvP because there's a war going on in Cyrodiil where the PvP happens.

If they ever introduce PvP arenas that take place outside Cyrodiil so that they have nothing to do with the war - faction shouldn't matter for group composition there either.

When you do PvE group content you do it through the Undaunted guild and they are a multi-faction organisation dedicated to challenging themselves against the most difficult monsters in Tamriel. All races and nationalities are welcome. The War in Cyrodiil is immaterial to them. They are Adventurers without Borders.

I just don't understand the counter argument.

You already have a small number of people crowding the leaderboards with all their alts - what difference will it make if those alts are yellow or blue or red? Most of the 'crowders' taking advantage of the leaderboard system through their alts have their characters on the same faction anyway so this won't change much for them.

The way to combat the crowding is to restrict leaderboards to one spot per account and to extend the leaderboards back to counting top 100 groups instead of 100 players.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

In addition to the inter/intra-guild drama I see this causing (not for all guilds maybe, but for some this'll be a pain point), it'll also cause some major clogging of the leaderboards. If say Nifty and I both have 8 max toons, but some of his are on another faction, we can still farm the leaderboard spots together. For all the bitching that happened when the vDSA weeklies were monopolized by far fewer than 100 actual accounts, it'll now be even easier for us to do that sort of thing.

I once put all 8 of my characters on the VDSA leaderboards in the top 10 spots and made 3 million gold.
I met @Suru that day

@Nifty2g, then they killed the content

A third option - Don't care

Oh wait, we finally can put all our characters on the leaderboard? Well...if that is what ZOS wants.....HODOR inc.

Why would I group up with an ENEMY. /zoslogic

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

That is not what they're saying at all. The concern is that this is going to kill our guilds.

Interesting people you have in your guilds.

Addihul wrote: »

Hodor, Bananas, L2p, CSH, BI, AH, etc..

Since @ZOS_JessicaFolsom confirmed in our meeting yesterday that this is assuredly happening.. we as guild leaders of the top tier guilds need to be proactive in putting boundaries around this ASAP.

Since there's nothing to be done from the leaderboards perspective.. I encourage us to put the ultimatum out to your members. Leaving to run with xfaction alpha guilds are the players choice, but don't expect to be allowed to run with our core raiders any more. Strategies get shared, guild loyalty and trust gets torn down, and the competition from more guilds dwindles and people lose even more interest. Bye bye to all top tier guilds except maybe the top 3-4.

It is our job now to make our intentions clear to our guildies before TG hits live. Nix the drama before it gets too much of a foothold. At this point, all Mundus core raiding members have been asked to stay in-house or not be invited to raid with our core any more. We have had nearly unanimous positive feedback thus far in these regards. We certainly understand the desire to form up an all glowing power squad, but based on the aforementioned arguments.. it is not in the best interest of our guild to allow this pursuit. We have made our intentions clear. I politely encourage you all to do the same before launch.

Noted, this only pertains to those 1%ers that are actively competing for leader spots. It does not apply in any way to casual or less competitive guilds that are looking to broaden their horizons by opening up their doors to cross faction players. Power to you.

Not sure if panicing or just arrogant.

That you dont share sensitive Tactics and Informations with Outsiders if you are in a highly competitive Guild is Rule Number 1. Maybe you should question the Character of your Members or rethink your Leadership Style if you are so afraid that something could happen.

Calling everyone "less competitive" that is thinking about to run with Chars from other Factions, that is definitely arrogant.

Maddux wrote: »

Addihul wrote: »

Hodor, Bananas, L2p, CSH, BI, AH, etc..

Since @ZOS_JessicaFolsom confirmed in our meeting yesterday that this is assuredly happening.. we as guild leaders of the top tier guilds need to be proactive in putting boundaries around this ASAP.

Since there's nothing to be done from the leaderboards perspective.. I encourage us to put the ultimatum out to your members. Leaving to run with xfaction alpha guilds are the players choice, but don't expect to be allowed to run with our core raiders any more. Strategies get shared, guild loyalty and trust gets torn down, and the competition from more guilds dwindles and people lose even more interest. Bye bye to all top tier guilds except maybe the top 3-4.

It is our job now to make our intentions clear to our guildies before TG hits live. Nix the drama before it gets too much of a foothold. At this point, all Mundus core raiding members have been asked to stay in-house or not be invited to raid with our core any more. We have had nearly unanimous positive feedback thus far in these regards. We certainly understand the desire to form up an all glowing power squad, but based on the aforementioned arguments.. it is not in the best interest of our guild to allow this pursuit. We have made our intentions clear. I politely encourage you all to do the same before launch.

Noted, this only pertains to those 1%ers that are actively competing for leader spots. It does not apply in any way to casual or less competitive guilds that are looking to broaden their horizons by opening up their doors to cross faction players. Power to you.

Not sure if panicing or just arrogant.

That you dont share sensitive Tactics and Informations with Outsiders if you are in a highly competitive Guild is Rule Number 1. Maybe you should question the Character of your Members or rethink your Leadership Style if you are so afraid that something could happen.

Calling everyone "less competitive" that is thinking about to run with Chars from other Factions, that is definitely arrogant.

Have you ever been in serious end game raiding?

In the end, people who support this are the ones who don't care about scores
People who don't support this are the ones who are dominating the leaderboards right now.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert why not just keep cross faction a thing but remove the scores from leaderboards, if there is so much negativity against this from all the active guilds running it, doesn't it seem like bad territory to step it?

Maddux wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maddux wrote: »

Addihul wrote: »

Hodor, Bananas, L2p, CSH, BI, AH, etc..

Since @ZOS_JessicaFolsom confirmed in our meeting yesterday that this is assuredly happening.. we as guild leaders of the top tier guilds need to be proactive in putting boundaries around this ASAP.

Since there's nothing to be done from the leaderboards perspective.. I encourage us to put the ultimatum out to your members. Leaving to run with xfaction alpha guilds are the players choice, but don't expect to be allowed to run with our core raiders any more. Strategies get shared, guild loyalty and trust gets torn down, and the competition from more guilds dwindles and people lose even more interest. Bye bye to all top tier guilds except maybe the top 3-4.

It is our job now to make our intentions clear to our guildies before TG hits live. Nix the drama before it gets too much of a foothold. At this point, all Mundus core raiding members have been asked to stay in-house or not be invited to raid with our core any more. We have had nearly unanimous positive feedback thus far in these regards. We certainly understand the desire to form up an all glowing power squad, but based on the aforementioned arguments.. it is not in the best interest of our guild to allow this pursuit. We have made our intentions clear. I politely encourage you all to do the same before launch.

Noted, this only pertains to those 1%ers that are actively competing for leader spots. It does not apply in any way to casual or less competitive guilds that are looking to broaden their horizons by opening up their doors to cross faction players. Power to you.

Not sure if panicing or just arrogant.

That you dont share sensitive Tactics and Informations with Outsiders if you are in a highly competitive Guild is Rule Number 1. Maybe you should question the Character of your Members or rethink your Leadership Style if you are so afraid that something could happen.

Calling everyone "less competitive" that is thinking about to run with Chars from other Factions, that is definitely arrogant.

Have you ever been in serious end game raiding?

Click me
Enough *** Measurement or do you need more?

i don't know why i laughed. but i did, was that for cod?
anyway no I'm referring to ESO.

allow cross faction leaderboards but limit the scores to 1 per account.

Almost every competition on the planet has free agency and it hasnt ruined them.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maddux wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maddux wrote: »

Addihul wrote: »

Hodor, Bananas, L2p, CSH, BI, AH, etc..

Since @ZOS_JessicaFolsom confirmed in our meeting yesterday that this is assuredly happening.. we as guild leaders of the top tier guilds need to be proactive in putting boundaries around this ASAP.

Since there's nothing to be done from the leaderboards perspective.. I encourage us to put the ultimatum out to your members. Leaving to run with xfaction alpha guilds are the players choice, but don't expect to be allowed to run with our core raiders any more. Strategies get shared, guild loyalty and trust gets torn down, and the competition from more guilds dwindles and people lose even more interest. Bye bye to all top tier guilds except maybe the top 3-4.

It is our job now to make our intentions clear to our guildies before TG hits live. Nix the drama before it gets too much of a foothold. At this point, all Mundus core raiding members have been asked to stay in-house or not be invited to raid with our core any more. We have had nearly unanimous positive feedback thus far in these regards. We certainly understand the desire to form up an all glowing power squad, but based on the aforementioned arguments.. it is not in the best interest of our guild to allow this pursuit. We have made our intentions clear. I politely encourage you all to do the same before launch.

Noted, this only pertains to those 1%ers that are actively competing for leader spots. It does not apply in any way to casual or less competitive guilds that are looking to broaden their horizons by opening up their doors to cross faction players. Power to you.

Not sure if panicing or just arrogant.

That you dont share sensitive Tactics and Informations with Outsiders if you are in a highly competitive Guild is Rule Number 1. Maybe you should question the Character of your Members or rethink your Leadership Style if you are so afraid that something could happen.

Calling everyone "less competitive" that is thinking about to run with Chars from other Factions, that is definitely arrogant.

Have you ever been in serious end game raiding?

Click me
Enough *** Measurement or do you need more?

i don't know why i laughed. but i did, was that for cod?
anyway no I'm referring to ESO.

So ESO end game "raiding" is the only serious end game raiding? I learn something new every day... Sucks to know all my other MMO experience doesn't mean ***.

Maddux wrote: »

All i can read out of @Addihul Post is Panic. Panic that someone will share his Strategys with Outsiders, Panic that maybe not so happy Members will leave to find their Luck in other Groups and maybe beat his Scores with his own Strategys. What prevents People from doing that right now? Maybe his Members are not so unhappy or complete Arses as he is afraid of.

I'm a concerned player who cares deeply about the welfare of the end game community. I am an advocate for our niche end game raiding experience. I don't panic at a video game. I'm not alone, and most of the top ranked guilds here are conveying the same message. It is my duty to protect our guild along with helping to preserve the unity and fairness as it relates to the whole. I am smart enough to realize that doesn't encompass everyone's opinions. Don't assume to know me, my guild, or our intentions. I won't dignify this response with another cheap shot. If the end game guilds were to all go commando and form up an elite wrecking ball.. sure it would bother me.. but I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.

Maddux wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maddux wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maddux wrote: »

Addihul wrote: »

Hodor, Bananas, L2p, CSH, BI, AH, etc..

Since @ZOS_JessicaFolsom confirmed in our meeting yesterday that this is assuredly happening.. we as guild leaders of the top tier guilds need to be proactive in putting boundaries around this ASAP.

Since there's nothing to be done from the leaderboards perspective.. I encourage us to put the ultimatum out to your members. Leaving to run with xfaction alpha guilds are the players choice, but don't expect to be allowed to run with our core raiders any more. Strategies get shared, guild loyalty and trust gets torn down, and the competition from more guilds dwindles and people lose even more interest. Bye bye to all top tier guilds except maybe the top 3-4.

It is our job now to make our intentions clear to our guildies before TG hits live. Nix the drama before it gets too much of a foothold. At this point, all Mundus core raiding members have been asked to stay in-house or not be invited to raid with our core any more. We have had nearly unanimous positive feedback thus far in these regards. We certainly understand the desire to form up an all glowing power squad, but based on the aforementioned arguments.. it is not in the best interest of our guild to allow this pursuit. We have made our intentions clear. I politely encourage you all to do the same before launch.

Noted, this only pertains to those 1%ers that are actively competing for leader spots. It does not apply in any way to casual or less competitive guilds that are looking to broaden their horizons by opening up their doors to cross faction players. Power to you.

Not sure if panicing or just arrogant.

That you dont share sensitive Tactics and Informations with Outsiders if you are in a highly competitive Guild is Rule Number 1. Maybe you should question the Character of your Members or rethink your Leadership Style if you are so afraid that something could happen.

Calling everyone "less competitive" that is thinking about to run with Chars from other Factions, that is definitely arrogant.

Have you ever been in serious end game raiding?

Click me
Enough *** Measurement or do you need more?

i don't know why i laughed. but i did, was that for cod?
anyway no I'm referring to ESO.

My Master, im really sorry. I started later with ESO and didnt hop from Guild to Guild, so i didnt hade to chance to Raid on a competitive Level until my Guild was reforming.
But does World Top 10 including EU 2. Kills in WoW counts?

I play competitive in different Games and Genres for over 10 Years now and i dont give a *** about that Changes. Im able to adapt and if a Cross Faction Leader board means that more good Groups are out there and i have to push harder to hold or raise my Position, im happy with that.

All i can read out of @Addihul Post is Panic. Panic that someone will share his Strategys with Outsiders, Panic that maybe not so happy Members will leave to find their Luck in other Groups and maybe beat his Scores with his own Strategys. What prevents People from doing that right now? Maybe his Members are not so unhappy or complete Arses as he is afraid of.

Sounds like a lot of talking through your teeth if I'll be completely honest. If you actually had participated in end game raiding you'd be able to at least understand the reasons why this change is extremely toxic for the raiding community of the game, while not necessarily having to agree with it. Your profound ignorance in your posts just shows you are not grasping the negative implications this has on the guilds stated and others unlisted, putting you to a point where your voice is null.

@Addihul is not panicking about strats being leaked or whatnot, neither are any officers or guild leaders of the big dog guilds. We are worried about cross guild drama and loss of friendship due to the issues these changes bring. We were all quite for cross-faction trials when ZoS brought them up, and it was a rather unanimous decision that we urged ZoS to make then ineligible for leader board scores with the Council of Raiders event that @Woeler and company was so nice to initiate and hold. ZoS agreed with the worry and said they would definitely consider it and was pretty much voiced from them to us in a way as if it wouldn't happen. Fast forward to now and out of the blue they seemed to have taken the classic approach where they play dumb and blatantly lie to us by going ahead and making it eligible anyways without even a warning beforehand. Now many guilds are scrambling to ensure that drama between guilds does not arise and making policies so that guild member sniping, secret alliances, or what have you, are not going to sprout from this.

This is not about adapting, or groups worried about losing #1 times. We encourage competition and hope that other guilds join in and show initiative in wanting to compete in a race to the top. Any of the guilds mentioned are filled with members that would easily fit into meta tier raids and take times, so quipping about adaptation has no relevance to this. The worry that the groups hold is that friendships and the meaning of current guilds will dissolve if this behavior is endorsed by ZoS to allow the best of the best players players simply form a team of only the best, and cull competition all together. This would mean many guilds now would dissolve due to lack of full raiding teams, which would then chain react into less baseline completion strategy being discussed for less competitive guilds, which then turns into less groups able to clear content, meaning new players will have even less of a chance to be picked up and given a chance to participate. As a whole this decision by ZoS is filled with tons of negatives that is going to hurt EVERYONE interested in PvE raiding, even if not at a competitive level.

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

So ESO end game "raiding" is the only serious end game raiding? I learn something new every day... Sucks to know all my other MMO experience doesn't mean ***.

wait, in WoW can Horde and Alliance raid together for scores? (serious question) or what about other MMO's? I thought ESO was being unique

I don't believe anybody is against people grouping with other factions, it's the leaderboard part that there's an issue.

In WoW there is no leaderboards, people fight to be the first to kill the bosses in the world it takes to the most skilled players in EU/NA over 3 weeks to defeat hard af bosses that make look the bosses in ESO as dolls and then each guild in each realm does the same but at a realm level, being over 50 realms with thousands of players you see why leaderboards are not a thing they would cause more issues than rewards.

Boss fights in WoW unlike ESO have mechanichs tied to health % so you can't skip mechanincs with high DPS in fact you have to control how much DPS you do in some bosses because it could activate 2 stages at once making your group wipe and on top of that even if you are super skilled player you only do 30% more damage than someone who is not skilled because there is actual class balance unlike in this game where most of the class skills don't even make it to your bars because they are so useless they make you loose DPS.

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

In WoW there is no leaderboards, people fight to be the first to kill the bosses in the world it takes to the most skilled players in EU/NA over 3 weeks to defeat hard af bosses that make look the bosses in ESO as dolls and then each guild in each realm does the same but at a realm level, being over 50 realms with thousands of players you see why leaderboards are not a thing they would cause more issues than rewards.

Boss fights in WoW unlike ESO have mechanichs tied to health % so you can't skip mechanincs with high DPS in fact you have to control how much DPS you do in some bosses because it could activate 2 stages at once making your group wipe and on top of that even if you are super skilled player you only do 30% more damage than someone who is not skilled because there is actual class balance unlike in this game where most of the class skills don't even make it to your bars because they are so useless they make you loose DPS.

so then in WoW can Horde and Alliance group towards a 1st world boss kill? since that's the thing to compete in that MMO, as far as skipping mechanics with high DPS yes that's sad, didn't use to be like this with Sanctum Ophidia when it 1st came out. Have you not seen ANYTHING in regards to the new trial?

Technically no, but in wow it takes 3 days to get to max level even i have 16 max level characters and that is nothing compared to other people. Nothing stops people on live servers of re-rolling to a different faction i just can't even understand why are so many of you afraid of betrayal, if someone betrays you they are not worth your sweat they are the most disgusting person they could achieve, and yes betrayal does happens in WoW its not a drama free game but i had never seen so much guild drama in a game until ESO guilds are not even required here and yet there is so much guild drama, in WoW you NEED to have everyone in the same guild to be taken into account on the world race.

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

In WoW there is no leaderboards, people fight to be the first to kill the bosses in the world it takes to the most skilled players in EU/NA over 3 weeks to defeat hard af bosses that make look the bosses in ESO as dolls and then each guild in each realm does the same but at a realm level, being over 50 realms with thousands of players you see why leaderboards are not a thing they would cause more issues than rewards.

Boss fights in WoW unlike ESO have mechanichs tied to health % so you can't skip mechanincs with high DPS in fact you have to control how much DPS you do in some bosses because it could activate 2 stages at once making your group wipe and on top of that even if you are super skilled player you only do 30% more damage than someone who is not skilled because there is actual class balance unlike in this game where most of the class skills don't even make it to your bars because they are so useless they make you loose DPS.

so then in WoW can Horde and Alliance group towards a 1st world boss kill? since that's the thing to compete in that MMO, as far as skipping mechanics with high DPS yes that's sad, didn't use to be like this with Sanctum Ophidia when it 1st came out. Have you not seen ANYTHING in regards to the new trial?

Technically no, but in wow it takes 3 days to get to max level even i have 16 max level characters and that is nothing compared to other people. Nothing stops people on live servers of re-rolling to a different faction i just can't even understand why are so many of you afraid of betrayal, if someone betrays you they are not worth your sweat they are the most disgusting person they could achieve, and yes betrayal does happens in WoW its not a drama free game but i had never seen so much guild drama in a game until ESO guilds are not even required here and yet there is so much guild drama, in WoW you NEED to have everyone in the same guild to be taken into account on the world race.

Not sure about others but betrayal is not my concern lmaol, my concern is that the 3-5 top raiding guilds in NA are going to consolidate even further and end up having 1 maybe 2 mega guilds. I wouldn't be happy with 1 guild holding a monopoly of the leaderboards. Also to the claims of the casuals in this thread that this promotes competition, how so? when there's no diversity in guilds anymore. I'm in AD and I compete with other people in my guild then compete with other guilds in my faction that in turn compete with other factions, who then in turn compete with the EU server <---- (count the amount of compete's in that sentence alone)