Should softcaps come back?

Soris · February 2016

yes

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Arena, Twin Sisters, Whitestrake, Hist Bark, Footman, Akaviri Dragonguard, Ravager, Thunderous, Shock Master, Potanates... Plus all the 2-3 piece sets and sets that i forgot to mention. Also add hybirds to the lists.

None of them are viable now. Only viable 5 piece set is now kag and julianos for magicka and morkuldin/hundings for stamina. Yeah that's a lot of diversity with 2 sets. Hard to decide which one.

Draxys · February 2016

yes

DHale wrote: »

Most of you voting for yes did not play when soft caps were in game it was much worse. I almost wish they put them back in so the forums would be even more toxicity and rage. You guys just don't think sometimes makes me glad the devs never read this stuff.

I know quite a lot of people who have been around since beta, like myself, who definitely want soft caps back.

Ffastyl · February 2016

yes

Zheg wrote: »

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

The meta depends on where the soft caps are placed. The old soft caps did favor Magicka but we all know Stamina builds were not extinct either. Personally, I made successful PvE and PvP Stamina builds in the time of soft caps so the "Elder Staves Online" argument is not as strong as first proposed.

Emma_Overload · February 2016

no

Soris wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Arena, Twin Sisters, Whitestrake, Hist Bark, Footman, Akaviri Dragonguard, Ravager, Thunderous, Shock Master, Potanates... Plus all the 2-3 piece sets and sets that i forgot to mention. Also add hybirds to the lists.

None of them are viable now. Only viable 5 piece set is now kag and julianos for magicka and morkuldin/hundings for stamina. Yeah that's a lot of diversity with 2 sets. Hard to decide which one.

None of the sets you mentioned have anything to do with softcaps. Nobody cares about Dragonguard anymore because Ultimate regen got nerfed so you can't base your build around Ultimates anymore. Hist Bark and Footman are tanking sets, and tanking got nerfed because of the stamina-regen-while-blocking nerf. Ravager got superceded by Agility jewelry. Whitestrake's is a gimmick/novelty set that has nothing to do with soft caps. Way of the Arena is just as useful now as it was then, which is to say only for very special builds who are willing to sacrifice a lot to always be able to Break Free. Thunderous and Shock Master are gimmick sets. MAYBE a case could be made that Thunderous saw more use in the old days, but I doubt it... most spell casters were wearing 7/7 light armor because there was no downside to doing so.

Derra · February 2016

no

Add to the list of useful magica sets: Willows, seducer, TBS, SPC, overwhelming 4p, winterborn.

For stamina: Sheer Venom, Briarheart, hunt (NB only), shieldbreaker, willows, TBS.

Additionally most of the sets you´ve mentioned simply don´t see use anymore bc they weren´t updated to v16.

Soris · February 2016

yes

No. You wear these sets not because they have something to do with softcaps directly but you could not stack everything into one desired stat, so you had to advance into something else when you hit the soft cap. And those sets' 5 piece bonuses were allowing you to have different "effects" on top of your stats.

Now with the removal of softcaps and champion system, you can stack everything into whatever stat and so most of these sets become obsolote and undesired. Of course other changes affect some of them directly like the block nerf and battle spirit. All of them contribute bit by bit what we have now in live. But you cant just say removal of softcaps had no negative impact on build diversity.

Derra · February 2016

no

In terms of build diversity it´s debateable. In terms of gear diversity it´s better now from my perspective. I can think of atleast 6 different gear setups i´d be comfortable to play nowadays. In 1.5 i had two.

For mainstream builds the only thing that has changed is resource focused set(s) magnus/seducer got replaced by kags/julianos.

Ishammael · February 2016

no

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Main issue back then and now: Most sets are bad. Plain and simple.

The other interesting sets are almost impossible to get without extensive amounts of farming repetetive pve content. In terms if gearing i think the game has never had as much possibilities as it has now. Most of them aren´t used simply because they´re too hard to get.

This actually drives me nuts. For instance, I want to try Winterborn and Permafrost but by god there is no way im going to grind VMA to get jewelry for that.

Cody · February 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

they were indeed, I played one:)

Derra · February 2016

no

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Main issue back then and now: Most sets are bad. Plain and simple.

The other interesting sets are almost impossible to get without extensive amounts of farming repetetive pve content. In terms if gearing i think the game has never had as much possibilities as it has now. Most of them aren´t used simply because they´re too hard to get.

This actually drives me nuts. For instance, I want to try Winterborn and Permafrost but by god there is no way im going to grind VMA to get jewelry for that.

If you need jewelry pieces out of the arena: Better make an appointment at the psychiatrist before starting to farm it. Same with specific weapon trait combinations.
I know. I´ve been doing it almost daily since orsinium launch and have nothing i want completed

Ishammael · February 2016

no

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Main issue back then and now: Most sets are bad. Plain and simple.

The other interesting sets are almost impossible to get without extensive amounts of farming repetetive pve content. In terms if gearing i think the game has never had as much possibilities as it has now. Most of them aren´t used simply because they´re too hard to get.

This actually drives me nuts. For instance, I want to try Winterborn and Permafrost but by god there is no way im going to grind VMA to get jewelry for that.

If you need jewelry pieces out of the arena: Better make an appointment at the psychiatrist before starting to farm it. Same with specific weapon trait combinations.
I know. I´ve been doing it almost daily since orsinium launch and have nothing i want completed

I have pretty much just given up. The jewelry is too rare and VMA too much of a PITA for a DK.

Master_Kas · February 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Arena, Twin Sisters, Whitestrake, Hist Bark, Footman, Akaviri Dragonguard, Ravager, Thunderous, Shock Master, Potanates... Plus all the 2-3 piece sets and sets that i forgot to mention. Also add hybirds to the lists.

None of them are viable now. Only viable 5 piece set is now kag and julianos for magicka and morkuldin/hundings for stamina. Yeah that's a lot of diversity with 2 sets. Hard to decide which one.

None of the sets you mentioned have anything to do with softcaps. Nobody cares about Dragonguard anymore because Ultimate regen got nerfed so you can't base your build around Ultimates anymore. Hist Bark and Footman are tanking sets, and tanking got nerfed because of the stamina-regen-while-blocking nerf. Ravager got superceded by Agility jewelry. Whitestrake's is a gimmick/novelty set that has nothing to do with soft caps. Way of the Arena is just as useful now as it was then, which is to say only for very special builds who are willing to sacrifice a lot to always be able to Break Free. Thunderous and Shock Master are gimmick sets. MAYBE a case could be made that Thunderous saw more use in the old days, but I doubt it... most spell casters were wearing 7/7 light armor because there was no downside to doing so.

Whitestrake's

This set was very good in 1.6 for stamina builds imo. I used it sometimes on my stamblade. Now with even more nerfs to damage shields it's just not worth it.

Duiwel · February 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Too bad the AOE caps poll was 3000 to 500 against it when they suggested it...

Agreed

SymbioteKing26 · February 2016

Hi guys, i like a lot of other newbies often wonder what these soft/hard caps you guys talk about actually are? Could someone please explain it to me? Why is it important? Thanks guys.

Firerock2 · February 2016

yes

SymbioteKing26 wrote: »

Hi guys, i like a lot of other newbies often wonder what these soft/hard caps you guys talk about actually are? Could someone please explain it to me? Why is it important? Thanks guys.

They were the mark of a better age.

Cody · February 2016

SymbioteKing26 wrote: »

Hi guys, i like a lot of other newbies often wonder what these soft/hard caps you guys talk about actually are? Could someone please explain it to me? Why is it important? Thanks guys.

they would turn on when a stat got to a certain extent. you could still increase that stat, but it took a lot more dedication, and you would sacrifice other stats to do it, it encouraged spreading out your points and efforts instead of pooring everything into one or two stats. To put it in easier to understand terms, there would be no 4K weapon damage or 3K+ regen with softcaps; the balance would be much better in that regard.

Zheg · February 2016

SymbioteKing26 wrote: »

Hi guys, i like a lot of other newbies often wonder what these soft/hard caps you guys talk about actually are? Could someone please explain it to me? Why is it important? Thanks guys.

Early on in the game's life, soft caps were in place to prevent you from reaching too high in a particular stat. Once you reached 2000 magicka (as an example), an armor glyph that would give 100 magicka would maybe only boost your magicka by 5. This prevented players from stacking everything into a single stat and remaining efficient. Why put on another magicka glyph to get a net 5 more when you could put on a stam glyph and get 100? Unfortunately, at the time, the soft caps were low enough that you could reach them relatively easily - including armor and spell resist. Typically it ended up being favorable to go all light armor for the passives since you could reach the soft cap for resist without needing to put on a single piece of heavy armor.

It was a huge problem back in the day for a number of reasons. They removed the softcaps, now people can reach 5000+ weapon dmg, and when coupled with the CP system and wrobel's poorly thought out itemization, the power creep in the current game is real.

SymbioteKing26 · February 2016

Zheg wrote: »

SymbioteKing26 wrote: »

Hi guys, i like a lot of other newbies often wonder what these soft/hard caps you guys talk about actually are? Could someone please explain it to me? Why is it important? Thanks guys.

Early on in the game's life, soft caps were in place to prevent you from reaching too high in a particular stat. Once you reached 2000 magicka (as an example), an armor glyph that would give 100 magicka would maybe only boost your magicka by 5. This prevented players from stacking everything into a single stat and remaining efficient. Why put on another magicka glyph to get a net 5 more when you could put on a stam glyph and get 100? Unfortunately, at the time, the soft caps were low enough that you could reach them relatively easily - including armor and spell resist. Typically it ended up being favorable to go all light armor for the passives since you could reach the soft cap for resist without needing to put on a single piece of heavy armor.

It was a huge problem back in the day for a number of reasons. They removed the softcaps, now people can reach 5000+ weapon dmg, and when coupled with the CP system and wrobel's poorly thought out itemization, the power creep in the current game is real.

Oh wow.
Okay.

Ffastyl · February 2016

yes

Zheg wrote: »

Once you reached 2000 magicka (as an example), an armor glyph that would give 100 magicka would maybe only boost your magicka by 5.

To be precise, the soft caps were a 40% reduction in the increase's value. I worked out the math using Health Recovery (soft cap was 95 and I achieved 195 Health Recovery). In other words that 100 Magicka would actually increase your Magicka by 60.

It was entirely possible to get the one-shot builds we see today but it was incredibly harder to do so, to the point no one even thought a one-shot build really possible.

Ffastyl · February 2016

yes

Soris wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

I remember 1.5 like it was yesterday. Not everyone was like that. I would know, because I was wearing people down and bursting them on my sorc just fine. And I sure as hell wasn't using sword and board.

I'd take magic meta where resource management was actually a thing, over fights that end in 5 seconds, and every boring stam build that look identical, behave identical, and function identically on every class.

I don´t get where the resource management myth comes from. There were builds that could fight for 30+ minutes without ever running out of juice back then. I know because i´ve played one (the worst part was you could not stack enough dmg to kill those because of - softcaps. The only thing reliably killing stuff was bugged fear breakfree). Resource management was gone from the game when 5p setbonuses were introduced.

1.5 has to be the most boring meta by a long shot of everything i remember of eso pvp. Everyone would walk away in permablock and hope for adds or to reach the next resource. Bleh.

Just your sorc had infinite magicka regen and enough damage to kill people doesnt mean every other class had it the same way. You can go watch some templar or dk pvp videos and see the resource management minigame. Sypher has a lot of dk duel videos, just watch how his magicka and stamina dying in between ultimates. Then imagine how could that be for templars without battle roar passive.

In 1.5 I used Willow's Path and Heavy Armor (7/7) and tri-stat or Health/Stamina Drink. I did not run out of resources. And I was built specifically to not run out. My build had no counter to ranged play, I had a snare in Low Slash but not charging attack or ranged attack. So my regen build excelled in melee combat and fell flat against anyone with the setup and brains to kite. My fondest fight was a 3v1 in Cropsford, where with Blinding Light, Blazing Shield and my weapon abilities I killed two of them repeatedly (they ran back) and stalemated with the third Dragonknight (the meta class). Eventually I died because they brought a fourth, but it lasted maybe 20 minutes or so and I scored at least 4 kills.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · February 2016

yes

Because it is has always been a proven way to keep things balanced in a competitive environment. Pre 1.6 there were definitely imbalances and still are but removing soft caps has made the issue of achieving balance even more difficult without them.

Maybe Zenimax can answer the question of how they determine how much base damage a certain ability should get when certain classes/races have different modifiers on resource pools and power.

I am in favor of them returning, doubt they will. If they do, maybe not exactly what we had before but something to control these issues instead of a jacked up Battle Spirit buff which destroyed abilities like Blazing Shield and Dragon Blood.

Cody · February 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Once you reached 2000 magicka (as an example), an armor glyph that would give 100 magicka would maybe only boost your magicka by 5.

To be precise, the soft caps were a 40% reduction in the increase's value. I worked out the math using Health Recovery (soft cap was 95 and I achieved 195 Health Recovery). In other words that 100 Magicka would actually increase your Magicka by 60.

It was entirely possible to get the one-shot builds we see today but it was incredibly harder to do so, to the point no one even thought a one-shot build really possible.

i actually had a build where I could potentially 3 shot people from stealth. I sucked in straight up combat though. If it was not for sparks I would have been slaughtered most of the time; but that was fine, as I had to sacrifice much to get to that point.

Nowadays that is not the case. One can get absurd weapon damage and still have high survivalbility/regen rates due to the lack of soft caps and the CC system.

Cody · February 2016

SymbioteKing26 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

SymbioteKing26 wrote: »

Hi guys, i like a lot of other newbies often wonder what these soft/hard caps you guys talk about actually are? Could someone please explain it to me? Why is it important? Thanks guys.

Early on in the game's life, soft caps were in place to prevent you from reaching too high in a particular stat. Once you reached 2000 magicka (as an example), an armor glyph that would give 100 magicka would maybe only boost your magicka by 5. This prevented players from stacking everything into a single stat and remaining efficient. Why put on another magicka glyph to get a net 5 more when you could put on a stam glyph and get 100? Unfortunately, at the time, the soft caps were low enough that you could reach them relatively easily - including armor and spell resist. Typically it ended up being favorable to go all light armor for the passives since you could reach the soft cap for resist without needing to put on a single piece of heavy armor.

It was a huge problem back in the day for a number of reasons. They removed the softcaps, now people can reach 5000+ weapon dmg, and when coupled with the CP system and wrobel's poorly thought out itemization, the power creep in the current game is real.

Oh wow.
Okay.

it was not all bad. Yes LA players could be just as durable as HA players, I will not deny that, and is not something I miss, but the softcaps also prevented people from getting these cheap open combat 3 shot builds, or these builds that allow for ridiculous resource sustain due to absurd regen rates. Back then, only a player who invested heavily into stealth could ever hope to 1-3 shot someone, and it came at great sacrifice to their survivalbility and combat prowess, because getting that high damage meant dealing with the softcaps, which would force one to sacrifice pretty much everything else to achieve. Nowadays a player can put most of their efforts into their damage oriented stat and, because of the lack of softcaps, are able to achieve 4K plus weapon/spell damage while still having decent-high regen. This was very difficult when softcaps were implemented, because they kicked in well before such ranges, you would not find someone with 3K mana (back then all the stats were 1/10th what they are now) that was able to put out extremely high damage AND have high sustain, because the softcaps prevented such things(unless they were just really good at the game of course)

things were very different in those times. Some better than now, some worse, but softcaps in my opinion were one of the better.

Ffastyl · February 2016

yes

I bring up this game a lot when I talk about examples: Dark Souls. It has soft caps. All stats "cap out" at 50 (of 99). Soft caps make a notable impact by 30. Point investment beyond 50 yields an occasional +1 to damage or defense (weapon damage numbers are between 300 and 500, armor between 200 and 700), as in you need to waste 2 or 3 level ups before you get a slightly tangible benefit again from the same stat. I have yet to see someone who says genuinely that some weapon or armor is unviable in the competitive scene (people fight naked with their bare hands against claymores and steel plate). The combat mechanics are different, making this comparison limited, but soft caps are prevalent in Dark Souls.

Farorin · February 2016

no

I only really started enjoying PVP after softcaps were removed. It opened up a whole new world for me.

I do wish they would add more incentive for build diversity, and more buffs and passives that help people who want to make a balanced build though (mag and stam build, rather than dumping all points into the one resource).

Ffastyl · February 2016

yes

I do have to say, if the combat team can pull off balancing everything well without soft caps, I have no reason to call for them.

Mumyo · February 2016

yes

DHale wrote: »

Most of you voting for yes did not play when soft caps were in game it was much worse. I almost wish they put them back in so the forums would be even more toxicity and rage. You guys just don't think sometimes makes me glad the devs never read this stuff.

Many changes were made, as the blockregen and dodgeroll changes, also several shields are not even close to the old strength. Keep such things in mind. These "ultratanky" but also dmg builds would not work at all anymore. And they were indeed not too horrible, there are worse builds out there right now.

Bringing softcaps back also doesnt mean that the exact same would come back, some adjustments can allways be made.
It wont happen anyways...

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · March 2016

yes

they wouldnt really work, seeing that they added vertical progression. but the least they could do is stop having damage scaling from max stat and only come from damage stat(and balance accordingly). so there would actually a reason to do more than put 100% in magica or stamina.

vortexman11 · March 2016

yes

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Arena, Twin Sisters, Whitestrake, Hist Bark, Footman, Akaviri Dragonguard, Ravager, Thunderous, Shock Master, Potanates... Plus all the 2-3 piece sets and sets that i forgot to mention. Also add hybirds to the lists.

None of them are viable now. Only viable 5 piece set is now kag and julianos for magicka and morkuldin/hundings for stamina. Yeah that's a lot of diversity with 2 sets. Hard to decide which one.

None of the sets you mentioned have anything to do with softcaps. Nobody cares about Dragonguard anymore because Ultimate regen got nerfed so you can't base your build around Ultimates anymore. Hist Bark and Footman are tanking sets, and tanking got nerfed because of the stamina-regen-while-blocking nerf. Ravager got superceded by Agility jewelry. Whitestrake's is a gimmick/novelty set that has nothing to do with soft caps. Way of the Arena is just as useful now as it was then, which is to say only for very special builds who are willing to sacrifice a lot to always be able to Break Free. Thunderous and Shock Master are gimmick sets. MAYBE a case could be made that Thunderous saw more use in the old days, but I doubt it... most spell casters were wearing 7/7 light armor because there was no downside to doing so.

I'm sorry but I've gotta say that you're wrong. ALL of these sets have EVERYTHING to do with soft caps. These are all sets that were at one time useful for the effects they gave, but now, due to the removal of soft caps, can't be used in a competitive environment because they simply don't provide the stats needed to min/max.

Its true in 1.5 there were alot more build limitations, but its undeniable that we had more build diversity back then. Trust me, not everyone ran around in Warlock/Seducer some people just didn't think outside the box. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind them just ****ing upgrading all the sets to max level and balancing their bonuses rather than rolling back to 1.5 which is more of a nostalgia thing for me.