Should softcaps come back?

Cody

I just want to see what people on here think, most will probably say no, but I am curious

Zheg

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

Wollust

yes

Wtb roll back to 1.5

Jaybe_Mawfaka

no

With cp system it makes no sense anymore.

Kilandros

yes

If they released a pre 1.6 server I would reroll and never look back.

Lord_Hev

yes

Zheg wrote: »

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

I remember 1.5 like it was yesterday. Not everyone was like that. I would know, because I was wearing people down and bursting them on my sorc just fine. And I sure as hell wasn't using sword and board.


I'd take magic meta where resource management was actually a thing, over fights that end in 5 seconds, and every boring stam build that look identical, behave identical, and function identically on every class.

Firerock2

yes

The game had a better design before 1.6 came out. To go back to 1.5 would be amazing. Softcaps were one of the great things about 1.5.

RAGUNAnoOne

yes

Too bad the AOE caps poll was 3000 to 500 against it when they suggested it...

Derra

no

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

I remember 1.5 like it was yesterday. Not everyone was like that. I would know, because I was wearing people down and bursting them on my sorc just fine. And I sure as hell wasn't using sword and board.


I'd take magic meta where resource management was actually a thing, over fights that end in 5 seconds, and every boring stam build that look identical, behave identical, and function identically on every class.

I don´t get where the resource management myth comes from. There were builds that could fight for 30+ minutes without ever running out of juice back then. I know because i´ve played one (the worst part was you could not stack enough dmg to kill those because of - softcaps. The only thing reliably killing stuff was bugged fear breakfree). Resource management was gone from the game when 5p setbonuses were introduced.

1.5 has to be the most boring meta by a long shot of everything i remember of eso pvp. Everyone would walk away in permablock and hope for adds or to reach the next resource. Bleh.

DHale

no

Most of you voting for yes did not play when soft caps were in game it was much worse. I almost wish they put them back in so the forums would be even more toxicity and rage. You guys just don't think sometimes makes me glad the devs never read this stuff.

Cody

DHale wrote: »

Most of you voting for yes did not play when soft caps were in game it was much worse. I almost wish they put them back in so the forums would be even more toxicity and rage. You guys just don't think sometimes makes me glad the devs never read this stuff.

well there were both good and bad things about it. the LA perma block block cast tanks were certainly one issue, but with the new changes to armor, I believe that would not be as much of an issue as before if softcaps were brought back.

but they also prevented someone from 3 shotting people in open combat or getting shield stacks to 18-20K, ( or the 1.8-2K equivalent of that time) it was a trade off of sorts. Good in exchange for bad.

As for a complete rollback to 1.5 like a few here suggested, I would be willing, IF the current armor changes remained in place, and armor/spell enchants would not be capable of reaching the cap for anyone not wearing Heavy Armor, which I am sure is possible to do. I would certainly love to have sparks back:D

Emma_Overload

no

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

Darkonflare15

no

Nope soft caps is just going ruin what they already change in the game like champion points, newer sets, major and minor buffs, and a lot of otherthings tied to the change. They already took too long trying to change the base game and they are still trying to change the base game with vet rank removal. I just want the base game to be complete so they can just improve on the formula.

Ghostbane

no

Skies the limit pls.

ToRelax

yes

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

I remember 1.5 like it was yesterday. Not everyone was like that. I would know, because I was wearing people down and bursting them on my sorc just fine. And I sure as hell wasn't using sword and board.


I'd take magic meta where resource management was actually a thing, over fights that end in 5 seconds, and every boring stam build that look identical, behave identical, and function identically on every class.

I don´t get where the resource management myth comes from. There were builds that could fight for 30+ minutes without ever running out of juice back then. I know because i´ve played one (the worst part was you could not stack enough dmg to kill those because of - softcaps. The only thing reliably killing stuff was bugged fear breakfree). Resource management was gone from the game when 5p setbonuses were introduced.

1.5 has to be the most boring meta by a long shot of everything i remember of eso pvp. Everyone would walk away in permablock and hope for adds or to reach the next resource. Bleh.

Actually resource management in 1.5 was harder than any other version so far, because of the Harness Magicka nerf.

Anyway, I'd rather see diminishing returns on most stats, with a smoother curve than softcaps. That's really the only thing I didn't like about them, everyone running the same stats.

Soris

yes

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

Like it is now possible to theorycraft new interesting builds?
You could at least make a hybrid build and be competitive with it in 1.5. There were endless amounts of successful combinations and each were unique. It is now impossible to do such a thing. You either have to follow one or two builds for each class or gtfo become a free ap to those who copy paste those builds.
How could this be diversity?

Emma_Overload

no

Soris wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

Like it is now possible to theorycraft new interesting builds?
You could at least make a hybrid build and be competitive with it in 1.5. There were endless amounts of successful combinations and each were unique. It is now impossible to do such a thing. You either have to follow one or two builds for each class or gtfo become a free ap to those who copy paste those builds.
How could this diversity?

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Soris

yes

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

Like it is now possible to theorycraft new interesting builds?
You could at least make a hybrid build and be competitive with it in 1.5. There were endless amounts of successful combinations and each were unique. It is now impossible to do such a thing. You either have to follow one or two builds for each class or gtfo become a free ap to those who copy paste those builds.
How could this diversity?

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Im not a fan of hybrids but some of the hybirds(if not all) were absolutely competitive, i played one and i was rocking with it in 1.4-5

Softcaps were actually there to prevent such extreme builds like we have them now. Like bol spam templars, infinite dodge rollers, extreme dmg numbers etc etc. And as you can see their blanket nerfs can not stop these but softcaps can.

Forestd16b14_ESO

yes

Hmm soft caps would allow tanks to you know.......... TANK !!!

Soris

yes

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

I remember 1.5 like it was yesterday. Not everyone was like that. I would know, because I was wearing people down and bursting them on my sorc just fine. And I sure as hell wasn't using sword and board.


I'd take magic meta where resource management was actually a thing, over fights that end in 5 seconds, and every boring stam build that look identical, behave identical, and function identically on every class.

I don´t get where the resource management myth comes from. There were builds that could fight for 30+ minutes without ever running out of juice back then. I know because i´ve played one (the worst part was you could not stack enough dmg to kill those because of - softcaps. The only thing reliably killing stuff was bugged fear breakfree). Resource management was gone from the game when 5p setbonuses were introduced.

1.5 has to be the most boring meta by a long shot of everything i remember of eso pvp. Everyone would walk away in permablock and hope for adds or to reach the next resource. Bleh.

Just your sorc had infinite magicka regen and enough damage to kill people doesnt mean every other class had it the same way. You can go watch some templar or dk pvp videos and see the resource management minigame. Sypher has a lot of dk duel videos, just watch how his magicka and stamina dying in between ultimates. Then imagine how could that be for templars without battle roar passive.

Derra

no

ToRelax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Not sure honestly. When they were in place the entire population was a dps AND a tank in light armor with sword and board and staff - everyone. Soft caps wouldn't be necessary if Wrobel could actually keep the numbers on skills and multipliers in check. If soft caps did come back, they would need to actually have their heads out of their ass and keep them at levels that still allow for diversity among builds, which ... who are we kidding?

I remember 1.5 like it was yesterday. Not everyone was like that. I would know, because I was wearing people down and bursting them on my sorc just fine. And I sure as hell wasn't using sword and board.


I'd take magic meta where resource management was actually a thing, over fights that end in 5 seconds, and every boring stam build that look identical, behave identical, and function identically on every class.

I don´t get where the resource management myth comes from. There were builds that could fight for 30+ minutes without ever running out of juice back then. I know because i´ve played one (the worst part was you could not stack enough dmg to kill those because of - softcaps. The only thing reliably killing stuff was bugged fear breakfree). Resource management was gone from the game when 5p setbonuses were introduced.

1.5 has to be the most boring meta by a long shot of everything i remember of eso pvp. Everyone would walk away in permablock and hope for adds or to reach the next resource. Bleh.

Actually resource management in 1.5 was harder than any other version so far, because of the Harness Magicka nerf.

Anyway, I'd rather see diminishing returns on most stats, with a smoother curve than softcaps. That's really the only thing I didn't like about them, everyone running the same stats.

Maybe i did not notice that because i never used harness unless on a solo trip in 1.6 and dueling. I never had space for it in open world...

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

Soft Caps won't come back as somebody in a senior position of the development team misread that the siege of Troy lasted 10 seconds because of some seriously heavy dps, and we all know that was an epic battle because they made a film about it staring Brad Pitt.

To be honest I thought soft caps were silly but then I look at some of the PvP battle being fought at the time. It's them epic 2 hour long battles that got me to enjoy PvP, but now I hate it for several reasons. The only problem is it has a serious knock on effect with PvE. Players at the moment can get through most content without relying for a group. With the grouping mechanic the way it is in this game, it would be a negative effect to bring soft caps back for PvE.

Derra

no

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Soft Caps won't come back as somebody in a senior position of the development team misread that the siege of Troy lasted 10 seconds because of some seriously heavy dps, and we all know that was an epic battle because they made a film about it staring Brad Pitt.

To be honest I thought soft caps were silly but then I look at some of the PvP battle being fought at the time. It's them epic 2 hour long battles that got me to enjoy PvP, but now I hate it for several reasons.

The only thing dumb about these battles was they had the brilliant design idea for one class to rely on rgn burst to kill people instead of sustained pressure (which basically could not happen because dmg was too low).

WillhelmBlack

yes

...but I'm dreaming.

skarvika

yes

Yes. It's really not fun getting 1 hit killed all the time.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

Derra wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Soft Caps won't come back as somebody in a senior position of the development team misread that the siege of Troy lasted 10 seconds because of some seriously heavy dps, and we all know that was an epic battle because they made a film about it staring Brad Pitt.

To be honest I thought soft caps were silly but then I look at some of the PvP battle being fought at the time. It's them epic 2 hour long battles that got me to enjoy PvP, but now I hate it for several reasons.

The only thing dumb about these battles was they had the brilliant design idea for one class to rely on rgn burst to kill people instead of sustained pressure (which basically could not happen because dmg was too low).

Dumb!!!!! Anti personal siege being deployed, heavy armour melee pushing forward being supported by healers, stealthy melee sneaking around looking for weak leaks to exploit. Sorcs and bow running from one end of a battle to another where they are needed. Massive number of players working together working only by visual clues as to what is going on. You call that DUMB!!!! I'm not sure what your idea of a battle is, but they certainly took longer then 10 minutes.

Derra

no

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Soft Caps won't come back as somebody in a senior position of the development team misread that the siege of Troy lasted 10 seconds because of some seriously heavy dps, and we all know that was an epic battle because they made a film about it staring Brad Pitt.

To be honest I thought soft caps were silly but then I look at some of the PvP battle being fought at the time. It's them epic 2 hour long battles that got me to enjoy PvP, but now I hate it for several reasons.

The only thing dumb about these battles was they had the brilliant design idea for one class to rely on rgn burst to kill people instead of sustained pressure (which basically could not happen because dmg was too low).

Dumb!!!!! Anti personal siege being deployed, heavy armour melee pushing forward being supported by healers, stealthy melee sneaking around looking for weak leaks to exploit. Sorcs and bow running from one end of a battle to another where they are needed. Massive number of players working together working only by visual clues as to what is going on. You call that DUMB!!!! I'm not sure what your idea of a battle is, but they certainly took longer then 10 minutes.

Aaand i have no idea what you want to say with that statement

Ishammael

no

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Emma_Overload

no

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

manny254

yes

The lack of build variability is currently due to poor itemization. Soft caps themselves where an attempt to stop more casual players from having a large power gap. From a build perspective the mechanics themselves prevented players from being diverse.

I feel the new sets next patch will create a lot of diversity.

Edit: Miss clicked on the vote.

Derra

no

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I vote no because of the current state of the game. I would love for a return to 1.5. But considering the Battle Spirit debuff and CP caps, softcaps on stats don't make too much sense.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No. Soft caps were horrible and made it really hard to theory-craft interesting builds. You always hit a mathematical wall that artificially limited what was possible.

This is completely untrue. There are a slew of set bonuses that are totally nonviable now because there are no softcaps.
Almost all magicka builds are some (slight variation) of Kag / Mag / Will
Almost all Stamina builds are some (slight variation) of Hunding / Agility / BS+kena

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hybrid builds were never very competitive, but their short-comings were not as obvious as they are now.

If you really want hybrid builds to be viable, stop asking for soft caps and start asking for damage to not be scaled off of either stamina or magicka.

Hybrid builds were totally competitive pre 1.6.

Nonviable... or unnecessary? You guys keep making sound like there was all this "diversity" of builds before soft caps were removed. Well, I was there, and there wasn't. Back then, it was Warlock + Seducer or GTFO. A few people also used Arch-Mage or even Desert Rose, but those sets were super rare and hard to get. The existence of cookie cutter FOTM builds that the masses flock to has NOTHING to do with soft caps.

Main issue back then and now: Most sets are bad. Plain and simple.

The other interesting sets are almost impossible to get without extensive amounts of farming repetetive pve content. In terms if gearing i think the game has never had as much possibilities as it has now. Most of them aren´t used simply because they´re too hard to get.