Official Feedback Thread for Maw of Lorkhaj

asneakybanana · February 2016

snejremllov wrote: »

Cant believe this hasn't been mentioned yet....
The music in the 2nd boss room is extremely loud and annoying. It makes my head hurt. Disabling music in the options doesn't remove it either as it seems to count as effects of some kind.
We're only on the second night of attempting this boss and it's unbearable already.

The monkey music is op and needs to be turned up so its blasting through the entire trial not just near the back doors.

EgoRush · February 2016

Vezuls wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Vezuls I do understand what you mean man. I mean I guess difficulty is fine pre-nerf.

The main issue what most people miss is that people skip AA/HRC/SO and go into the most difficult content and expect to pass easy mode. They just do not have the same learning curve....which is not entirely their fault as SO/AA/HRC is outdated ><

Yes it is difficult. But even we only wipe because our people are too *** to not listen to commands or start doing strange stuff once a lot things happen.

If people skip those trials and go into VmoL they will get squashed. Even beating those 3 does not guarantee to down even the first boss. VmoL seems so hard that the players must be capable of speed running/nuking all the bosses from the previous trials, and there still seems to be a pretty steep learning curve, as on boss 2, all it takes is 1 miscommunication, misunderstanding to wipe the whole group.

I'm most interested in seeing how in the heck the speed run will be possible with vMOL :P 40 minutes I think. I mean the Sanctum speed run is 30-35 and we're doing that in a little over 10 minutes now, but still, vMOL in 40 minutes will be hilariously difficult! I can't wait to get it done.

asneakybanana · February 2016

EgoRush wrote: »

Vezuls wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Vezuls I do understand what you mean man. I mean I guess difficulty is fine pre-nerf.

The main issue what most people miss is that people skip AA/HRC/SO and go into the most difficult content and expect to pass easy mode. They just do not have the same learning curve....which is not entirely their fault as SO/AA/HRC is outdated ><

Yes it is difficult. But even we only wipe because our people are too *** to not listen to commands or start doing strange stuff once a lot things happen.

If people skip those trials and go into VmoL they will get squashed. Even beating those 3 does not guarantee to down even the first boss. VmoL seems so hard that the players must be capable of speed running/nuking all the bosses from the previous trials, and there still seems to be a pretty steep learning curve, as on boss 2, all it takes is 1 miscommunication, misunderstanding to wipe the whole group.

I'm most interested in seeing how in the heck the speed run will be possible with vMOL :P 40 minutes I think. I mean the Sanctum speed run is 30-35 and we're doing that in a little over 10 minutes now, but still, vMOL in 40 minutes will be hilariously difficult! I can't wait to get it done.

Remember sanctum speed run? I think only like 6 or 7 groups in the world managed to get that. Took people months of work to get to the point where speed run is possible and especially considering deaths directly affected the te back then the slightest mistake meant you needed to restart. I feel like once we better figure out all the mechanics and really start to fine tune everything sl maybe in a few months time once we figure everything out we can get close to that 40m

Alcast · February 2016

EgoRush wrote: »

Vezuls wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Vezuls I do understand what you mean man. I mean I guess difficulty is fine pre-nerf.

The main issue what most people miss is that people skip AA/HRC/SO and go into the most difficult content and expect to pass easy mode. They just do not have the same learning curve....which is not entirely their fault as SO/AA/HRC is outdated ><

Yes it is difficult. But even we only wipe because our people are too *** to not listen to commands or start doing strange stuff once a lot things happen.

If people skip those trials and go into VmoL they will get squashed. Even beating those 3 does not guarantee to down even the first boss. VmoL seems so hard that the players must be capable of speed running/nuking all the bosses from the previous trials, and there still seems to be a pretty steep learning curve, as on boss 2, all it takes is 1 miscommunication, misunderstanding to wipe the whole group.

I'm most interested in seeing how in the heck the speed run will be possible with vMOL :P 40 minutes I think. I mean the Sanctum speed run is 30-35 and we're doing that in a little over 10 minutes now, but still, vMOL in 40 minutes will be hilariously difficult! I can't wait to get it done.

back in the day where Sanctum was hard we actually had like 32minuts to complete it and it was really difficult.
It took us like 2 Months to complete Speedachiev in Sanctum whereas hardmode took 5 easy tries lol. Speedachiev is the difficult thing, not hardmode

40 Minutes seems to be fine.

Alcast · February 2016

Streaming live now:

Fecius · February 2016

Yeah, @Alcast, but don't forget all small things about mechanics of the HM were explained by @andy.s and me to @TehMagnus who provided it to your raid. Well, true, in this scenario with all that info and your coordination and communication after 2 months of fastrun attempts it could feel a bit easy.

andy_s · February 2016

Don't compare apples and oranges. Back in the day SO Speed Run was equal to the no death run, because 1 death = 5 mins added to time. And I agree it was harder than Hard Mode. But once you managed to perform perfect 30 min runs without deaths Hard Mode becomes really easy. So it was 2 months + 5 tries for HODOR

In MoL all achievements are separated, speed run, no death run, hard mode. I think No Death will be the hardest (v16 scaled of course), because it's really hard to don't die on trash

But I think many groups will prefer to scale to v1 to get these achievments. AFAIK you can't scale Hard Mode to v1, so generally it is the "coolest" achievement.

Jackrs04 · February 2016

Sorry for the OOT question but from the patch notes it is unclear:

Can we group between factions for the trial? If yes will be that possible also on live?

Kyoma · February 2016

Jackrs04 wrote: »

Sorry for the OOT question but from the patch notes it is unclear:

Can we group between factions for the trial? If yes will be that possible also on live?

I believe some people were able to be in the same trial while being from different alliances but it didn't really work 100%. It isn't really supported and won't be in live. I think earliest we'd see cross-faction trials will be with the Dark Brotherhood.

Jackrs04 · February 2016

Kyoma wrote: »

Jackrs04 wrote: »

Sorry for the OOT question but from the patch notes it is unclear:

Can we group between factions for the trial? If yes will be that possible also on live?

I believe some people were able to be in the same trial while being from different alliances but it didn't really work 100%. It isn't really supported and won't be in live. I think earliest we'd see cross-faction trials will be with the Dark Brotherhood.

Deltia in his video said cross alliance trials are supported but I'm unsure so for that I'm asking more opinions

TotterTates · February 2016

Jackrs04 wrote: »

Kyoma wrote: »

Jackrs04 wrote: »

Sorry for the OOT question but from the patch notes it is unclear:

Can we group between factions for the trial? If yes will be that possible also on live?

I believe some people were able to be in the same trial while being from different alliances but it didn't really work 100%. It isn't really supported and won't be in live. I think earliest we'd see cross-faction trials will be with the Dark Brotherhood.

Deltia in his video said cross alliance trials are supported but I'm unsure so for that I'm asking more opinions

#confirmed by Lord Delita

He has also confirmed that the green circle beneath vMA stage 4 boss is poisonous.

Woeler · February 2016

Alcast wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Vezuls wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Vezuls I do understand what you mean man. I mean I guess difficulty is fine pre-nerf.

The main issue what most people miss is that people skip AA/HRC/SO and go into the most difficult content and expect to pass easy mode. They just do not have the same learning curve....which is not entirely their fault as SO/AA/HRC is outdated ><

Yes it is difficult. But even we only wipe because our people are too *** to not listen to commands or start doing strange stuff once a lot things happen.

If people skip those trials and go into VmoL they will get squashed. Even beating those 3 does not guarantee to down even the first boss. VmoL seems so hard that the players must be capable of speed running/nuking all the bosses from the previous trials, and there still seems to be a pretty steep learning curve, as on boss 2, all it takes is 1 miscommunication, misunderstanding to wipe the whole group.

I'm most interested in seeing how in the heck the speed run will be possible with vMOL :P 40 minutes I think. I mean the Sanctum speed run is 30-35 and we're doing that in a little over 10 minutes now, but still, vMOL in 40 minutes will be hilariously difficult! I can't wait to get it done.

back in the day where Sanctum was hard we actually had like 32minuts to complete it and it was really difficult.
It took us like 2 Months to complete Speedachiev in Sanctum whereas hardmode took 5 easy tries lol. Speedachiev is the difficult thing, not hardmode

40 Minutes seems to be fine.

Ahh yes, I remember when we got like 32:46 or something on Sanctum, back when deaths still added 5 minutes to your time. What a lovely time that was.

EgoRush · February 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Vezuls wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Vezuls I do understand what you mean man. I mean I guess difficulty is fine pre-nerf.

The main issue what most people miss is that people skip AA/HRC/SO and go into the most difficult content and expect to pass easy mode. They just do not have the same learning curve....which is not entirely their fault as SO/AA/HRC is outdated ><

Yes it is difficult. But even we only wipe because our people are too *** to not listen to commands or start doing strange stuff once a lot things happen.

If people skip those trials and go into VmoL they will get squashed. Even beating those 3 does not guarantee to down even the first boss. VmoL seems so hard that the players must be capable of speed running/nuking all the bosses from the previous trials, and there still seems to be a pretty steep learning curve, as on boss 2, all it takes is 1 miscommunication, misunderstanding to wipe the whole group.

I'm most interested in seeing how in the heck the speed run will be possible with vMOL :P 40 minutes I think. I mean the Sanctum speed run is 30-35 and we're doing that in a little over 10 minutes now, but still, vMOL in 40 minutes will be hilariously difficult! I can't wait to get it done.

back in the day where Sanctum was hard we actually had like 32minuts to complete it and it was really difficult.
It took us like 2 Months to complete Speedachiev in Sanctum whereas hardmode took 5 easy tries lol. Speedachiev is the difficult thing, not hardmode

40 Minutes seems to be fine.

Ahh yes, I remember when we got like 32:46 or something on Sanctum, back when deaths still added 5 minutes to your time. What a lovely time that was.

At least there is an interesting death penalty now with this Vitality Bonus. GG ZOS for this, I think it's a fantastic change! Now, once we're all dominating vMOL and have the mechanics down we're going to need to ensure no deaths for world record runs

finally some pressure back on us healers to stop slacking with the heals and just Jesus Beam everything instead (note: I'm still going to Jesus Beam everything, but I might pay more attention to team health now).

ZOS_Finn · February 2016

1. Annoying bugs with Cats floating in the air after meteor combo.
2. Crashes of both 32 and 64 versions of client.
3. Annoying bugs with self-killing at Black/White glow change at 2nd boss.
4. Hardly noticeable telegraph for White to Black glow change at 2nd boss. It can be a problem on some monitors with low contrast. And it's OK and noticeable for Black to White change.

1. We noticed this on streams and caught some reports from players on this. We are tracking it down and hope to have it fixed soon.
2. This is another issue that is a high priority for us. Our client team is looking at this heavily.
3. Is this still happening after the last patch? We should have put in place a fix for this issue.
4. We will take a look and see if we can't bump up the intensity on this.

ESO itemization is the most confusing thing ever. I really don’t know yet do I like those new sets or not. Will they raise my DPS or not? I don’t know and I can’t predict without testing. And testing is hard without DPS Dummy and expensive on live, and even frustrating when you need to make it gold quality for tests and realize after that it’s trash and you’ve just spent a lot of coins for nothing. Clear itemization would make me happy when it would be more obvious that “Item set A” is better than “Item set B”.

This is also great feedback. We are taking a look at the underlying feedback here, in that its not always easy for players to discern which piece of gear is necessarily better but we have no news at the moment on that front.

I don’t like tons of doors and character teleports inside the Trial. It doesn’t feel as something organic whole or continuous as it was in SO and HRC especially where you even can see some ppl running above you. It feels more like a set of rooms with teleports even though I can see it’s not on my map.

There are various technical reasons why teleports, doors, etc. are done but we understand the feedback and will keep it in mind when developing content in the future.

Thanks again guys and keep it coming!

DeeBunny · February 2016

Awesome feedback @ZOS_Finn :-)

EgoRush · February 2016

We'll be streaming countless more attempts and wipes in vMOL later this evening from 8pm GMT+1. Keep an eye out for the following channels if you want to come laugh at our efforts

the aim is to clear at least 1 full cycle on the last boss now.

www.twitch.tv/drugcontrol
www.twitch.tv/mashinatee
www.twitch.tv/paolen
www.twitch.tv/zantaria

Xantaria · February 2016

All Hail Deltia

Personofsecrets · February 2016

The pillars on the first boss seem to not protect people or whole groups of people sometimes. I was hoping that this was just happening to me because of playing on low FPS, but no, more members of my group are experiencing "I was behind that" moments.

Personofsecrets · February 2016

The trash wave gauntlets are going to get extremely old as we do this dungeon more times. I think that the chest reward for them should really be amped.

The 3 re-leveled do not feel like enough for the primary part of the dungeon. At least give us some other sets that people used to actually use, but at v16.

Silks of the Sun
Vestements of the Warlock
Akaviri Dragonguard
Storm Knight's Plate
Dreugh King Slayer

You also have opportunity to remodel old sets which got worse with the changes to weapon damage and crit or sets that just were not planned out well. Stygian and Elegant could be really cool if they were touched up.

Finally, I think that it may be cool to have some of the SO boss sets introduced at v16. I'm sure some would use infaliable aether. vicious serpent would be cool for certain things. Eternal yokeda isn't the best, but I could see putting it on if it was v16 good trait.

That leads me to this last part. If you ever do update some of the old sets, then please change their traits as well. Nobody really wants an infused staff of the sun or sturdy shield of the storm knight.

EgoRush · February 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The pillars on the first boss seem to not protect people or whole groups of people sometimes. I was hoping that this was just happening to me because of playing on low FPS, but no, more members of my group are experiencing "I was behind that" moments.

My experience of this is that 2 things can cause it:
1) Lag makes it seem you got behind the pillar in time but really you didn't
2) You are too far away from the pillar - I imagine this like ripples of water around a branch, the bosses ability will ripple around and can kill you even if the pillar breaks his line of sight completely (does that make sense?). No idea if this is the case, but I have died whilst being a little far from the pillar too.

iam117 · February 2016

i will second what @Personofsecrets said, last night we had cats re-healing repeatedly, we had one cat that re-healed 2 times and stayed around through and after the shield phase, and multiple times we had groups of 4+ who were behind the pillars early and standing directly behind it get wiped.

helediron · February 2016

I play as NB tank, EU VR16. Is it intended mechanism that Zhaj'hassa the forgotten's Raging Cleave one-shots me as a tank? I see no warning signs of it, just a simple Cleave animation. Usually it hits 11k, but few times it one-shotted me with 35k damage through block. I verified it from video. I had nearly full health and stamina and i was blocking. I had both major resistances, Harness Mgaicka and Armor master up. I had Shattered, as it is nearly always on me.

What does exactly the Shatter do? Does this Shatter effect favor DK mitigation and Footman mitigation over armor? As a nightblade tank, i have heavily invested to armor and healing, as i have no shields and less raw mitigation.

I am not asking any nerfs yet. I just wonder that in other trials the heavy hits are clearly visible with red cone. This attack has no warning. Either there is a mechanism we need to figure out, or devs have purposely added a random tank killer, or i found a bug. I jùst don't know what i've found.

Personofsecrets · February 2016

Sounds like you are not blocking @helediron

Woeler · February 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sounds like you are not blocking @helediron

And even then... This boss normally hits like a noodle, even on veteran.

Personofsecrets · February 2016

I'm not sure how you could make a 20-30k atk hit like a noodle just by not blocking it while having no armor rating.

helediron · February 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sounds like you are not blocking @helediron

But i WAS blocking. My shield was up, and i checked it afterwards from video. I wasn't swapping weapon either.

Fecius · February 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

3. Annoying bugs with self-killing at Black/White glow change at 2nd boss.

3. Is this still happening after the last patch? We should have put in place a fix for this issue.

It looks like it's not a problem any more. We've spent a lot of time, testing the 2nd boss yesterday and teaching different people to act there properly and there were not a single self-killing. Good job.

EgoRush · February 2016

helediron wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sounds like you are not blocking @helediron

But i WAS blocking. My shield was up, and i checked it afterwards from video. I wasn't swapping weapon either.

@Woeler and @Personofsecrets, if he had Shattered armour then his armour value was reduced to zero. Irrespective of blocking he can be one-shot by this mechanic. This is why we have 2 tanks throughout now on trash to specific adds between tanks when the Shattered debuff is placed.

So yes, Helediron, it's a mechanic.

EgoRush · February 2016

Our experience from last night in vMOL.

ZOS, well done! The crashes were MUCH better! Most of us didn't crash at all. I think 1 person crashed. The trash was the smoothest I've ever seen on a PTS server. Seriously, well done, this made our raid experience so much less frustrating.

Second boss bugs: we seem to have more people not seeing a colour on their character at all. It happened 3 times to me where I simply had no colour (as if the bosses had finished their prayer) while everyone else still had a colour. This happened to a few people during our attempts. The colour doesn't disappear from the view of others - so we were able to call out and ask someone to tell us what our colour is - but this seemed to occur more often than usual. Also, it would often happen after someone was resurrected, though 2/3 times for me this wasn't the case.

Woeler · February 2016

EgoRush wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sounds like you are not blocking @helediron

But i WAS blocking. My shield was up, and i checked it afterwards from video. I wasn't swapping weapon either.

@Woeler and @Personofsecrets, if he had Shattered armour then his armour value was reduced to zero. Irrespective of blocking he can be one-shot by this mechanic. This is why we have 2 tanks throughout now on trash to specific adds between tanks when the Shattered debuff is placed.

So yes, Helediron, it's a mechanic.

But he is talking about the first boss. While he has some kind of armor debuff mechanic, it definitely does not go to 0 (at least for my intuition). If it does, then well, I haven't noticed.