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Rofl at the Vicious Death Set..
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People whining about DAOC being brought up while at the same time talking about CU is hilarious.
Anyway I think with the amount of classes in that game 8 will probably end up the group size; though 6 wouldn't be bad either... 8 tends to allow the most specialization though I feel.
You can still Zerg in the game as well even if the cap is 8... Basically by having 8 group cap you put a cap on most support spells as they're usually group based. It'll also be a factor if the speed is group based as well. Group run speed spells were one of the things that made 8 mans viable in DAOC as before a certain ring was added speed wasn't always available to everyone in the Zerg so it often moved slower then 8 mans with dedicated groups.
When they added the ring though it kind of changed but speed traps also meant that you didn't have zergs just chasing down 8 mans either.
CU seems to be following a similar approach; they also seem to have some Zerg buster classes in as well. The dark fool class for example has debuffs that scale in power based on the number of people they hit
Should be interesting.Edited by Xsorus on February 21, 2016 3:13AMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Besides, when 1vXing you need EVERY spot on your bar to be effective. Why clutter space with superfluous attacks when you need every single one for buffs, heals and sustain? Find what works, build around it, get good.
So you´re telling me what i´ve been saying all along - it´s a problem that running in a large grp or xv1ing you don´t need every skill on your bar to be effective resulting in that mindless buttonmashing that you´re trying to sell as organised skillful large grp play?Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
Yeah that´s one of the games problems. It lets players get away with builds like you´re discribing by letting them grp up in numbers where it becomes more efficient to just spam one skill (most effective with multi purpose skills) until the button breaks instead of having to use multiple skills situationally.
Also ingame large grps are forum raids aswell eh?Edited by Derra on February 21, 2016 10:44AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 509 -
LegendaryChef✭✭✭✭✭
https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.Edited by LegendaryChef on February 21, 2016 12:19PMZzoro/Elliot Brown/Baldy ~Kitesquad/Noricum~
PC EU.
Spider mount was the only good part about morrowind release.4 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »Rofl...Woke up to 53 new posts from people crying about me mentioning DAOC and how no MMOs have any other relation to this unique snowflake of a game.
Its so adorable how many first time MMO players are in this game..I'm really surprised Vehemence managed to get so many newcomers *grin*
Oooooh look out guys he's played a lot of MMO's, we're just a bunch of peasant first time MMO gamers. We should take him seriously in spite of the fact that he hasn't figured out he's not playing DAoC.
I'm surprised you've not figured out you're playing an MMO yet
You're just adorable....
Tells someone they can't figure out they're playing an MMO.
Doesn't understand what the M and M stand for in MMO.
Let's see; multiple MMOs have came out over the years; a substantial amount had limited groups of 4-8 players....
Yet they still were called MMOs
It's almost as if you don't know what an MMO is.... Kind of like how ya don't actually know what a group was either....
*grin*
Just adorable...
But we're talking about ESO, not DAOC. Any other game is irrelevant to this discussion.
So you don't think ESO is an MMO? Cause I'm assuming you how game classification works...or maybe you wanna just own up to your terrible point right now.
Whatever you just said literally makes no sense.
at least he says sth. you´re just babbling like an infant...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"3 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
that is actually exactly his point, no non zerger will ever have ANY rotation as you have to react to the situation and not force the situation upon your opponents by massivly outnumbering them.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"3 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
You're splitting hairs over semantics. Having a rotation does not mean you don't react to the situation at hand and use your skills accordingly. Or are we going to argue about the definition of 'rotation' for 3 pages now just like we argued about the definitions of 'zerg' and 'group'? Every build for every roll has rotations that you commit to muscle memory, that's just part of becoming a skilled player. Sorcs have Curse/Entropy/Entropy/Frags/Execute for dps. DKs have Prox/Fossilize/Meteor/Talons/Whip/Whip/Whip. So please do keep telling me how 'non zergers' have no rotations.Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
that is actually exactly his point, no non zerger will ever have ANY rotation as you have to react to the situation and not force the situation upon your opponents by massivly outnumbering them.
While we're at it, what's with the forcing 'the situation upon your opponents by massively outnumbering them'? The post you're addressing was talking about '8-24 man groups', to say they don't react to situations because they just massively outnumber everyone is dumbing things down in the most oversimplified way possible. Or do 8-24 man groups never fight other 8-24 man groups? Or even larger blobs of pugs or groups + pugs?Edited by HoloYoitsu on February 21, 2016 6:45PM2 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
that is actually exactly his point, no non zerger will ever have ANY rotation as you have to react to the situation and not force the situation upon your opponents by massivly outnumbering them.
I have a burst rotation when I run solo so idk what you're talking about. If you don't have a refined burst rotation at this point that is a serious L2P issue. Maybe that's actually why you get rekt by these groups, I'll give you a hint though since this zerger is apparently more experience in small man pvp than you, find their healers > apply burst rotation.Edited by Ghost-Shot on February 21, 2016 7:20PM0 -
ZOS_MollyHmodHey guys, lets try to keep this on-topic here. We've had to remove some comments for baiting and spam. Please keep our code of conduct in mind before posting further to avoid the thread being locked.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You're splitting hairs over semantics. Having a rotation does not mean you don't react to the situation at hand and use your skills accordingly. Or are we going to argue about the definition of 'rotation' for 3 pages now just like we argued about the definitions of 'zerg' and 'group'? Every build for every roll has rotations that you commit to muscle memory, that's just part of becoming a skilled player. Sorcs have Curse/Entropy/Entropy/Frags/Execute for dps. DKs have Prox/Fossilize/Meteor/Talons/Whip/Whip/Whip. So please do keep telling me how 'non zergers' have no rotations.Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
that is actually exactly his point, no non zerger will ever have ANY rotation as you have to react to the situation and not force the situation upon your opponents by massivly outnumbering them.
While we're at it, what's with the forcing 'the situation upon your opponents by massively outnumbering them'? The post you're addressing was talking about '8-24 man groups', to say they don't react to situations because they just massively outnumber everyone is dumbing things down in the most oversimplified way possible. Or do 8-24 man groups never fight other 8-24 man groups? Or even larger blobs of pugs or groups + pugs?
what a horrible rotation...
any skilled sorc would not use that (as a 1st hint the executioning effect of the sorc execute lingers for 4 secs...)
anyway what i ment by forcing the situation upon your opponents it´s just a matter of numbers, the more players your group consists of the more specialized in skillusage each player becomes and the less skill is involved in using your abilities "properly". simplest example is a dedicated purge spammer in a 4-6man group you can not have one in a 12+ man group its easily possible and recommended as it eleminates an error source by stupidly spamming it.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"3 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You're splitting hairs over semantics. Having a rotation does not mean you don't react to the situation at hand and use your skills accordingly. Or are we going to argue about the definition of 'rotation' for 3 pages now just like we argued about the definitions of 'zerg' and 'group'? Every build for every roll has rotations that you commit to muscle memory, that's just part of becoming a skilled player. Sorcs have Curse/Entropy/Entropy/Frags/Execute for dps. DKs have Prox/Fossilize/Meteor/Talons/Whip/Whip/Whip. So please do keep telling me how 'non zergers' have no rotations.Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
that is actually exactly his point, no non zerger will ever have ANY rotation as you have to react to the situation and not force the situation upon your opponents by massivly outnumbering them.
While we're at it, what's with the forcing 'the situation upon your opponents by massively outnumbering them'? The post you're addressing was talking about '8-24 man groups', to say they don't react to situations because they just massively outnumber everyone is dumbing things down in the most oversimplified way possible. Or do 8-24 man groups never fight other 8-24 man groups? Or even larger blobs of pugs or groups + pugs?
what a horrible rotation...
any skilled sorc would not use that (as a 1st hint the executioning effect of the sorc execute lingers for 4 secs...)
anyway what i ment by forcing the situation upon your opponents it´s just a matter of numbers, the more players your group consists of the more specialized in skillusage each player becomes and the less skill is involved in using your abilities "properly". simplest example is a dedicated purge spammer in a 4-6man group you can not have one in a 12+ man group its easily possible and recommended as it eleminates an error source by stupidly spamming it.
ZOS added a set that buffs the group when someone casts a support ability, why would we not put someone in that set and tell them you are gonna purge, the more you purge the more we have that buff. Its not a matter of lack of skill its a matter of using the tools the game gives us.0 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Wearing good sets is just putting the game on easy mode, duh. You're supposed to outfit everyone in Death's Wind.Ghost-Shot wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You're splitting hairs over semantics. Having a rotation does not mean you don't react to the situation at hand and use your skills accordingly. Or are we going to argue about the definition of 'rotation' for 3 pages now just like we argued about the definitions of 'zerg' and 'group'? Every build for every roll has rotations that you commit to muscle memory, that's just part of becoming a skilled player. Sorcs have Curse/Entropy/Entropy/Frags/Execute for dps. DKs have Prox/Fossilize/Meteor/Talons/Whip/Whip/Whip. So please do keep telling me how 'non zergers' have no rotations.Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
that is actually exactly his point, no non zerger will ever have ANY rotation as you have to react to the situation and not force the situation upon your opponents by massivly outnumbering them.
While we're at it, what's with the forcing 'the situation upon your opponents by massively outnumbering them'? The post you're addressing was talking about '8-24 man groups', to say they don't react to situations because they just massively outnumber everyone is dumbing things down in the most oversimplified way possible. Or do 8-24 man groups never fight other 8-24 man groups? Or even larger blobs of pugs or groups + pugs?
what a horrible rotation...
any skilled sorc would not use that (as a 1st hint the executioning effect of the sorc execute lingers for 4 secs...)
anyway what i ment by forcing the situation upon your opponents it´s just a matter of numbers, the more players your group consists of the more specialized in skillusage each player becomes and the less skill is involved in using your abilities "properly". simplest example is a dedicated purge spammer in a 4-6man group you can not have one in a 12+ man group its easily possible and recommended as it eleminates an error source by stupidly spamming it.
ZOS added a set that buffs the group when someone casts a support ability, why would we not put someone in that set and tell them you are gonna purge, the more you purge the more we have that buff. Its not a matter of lack of skill its a matter of using the tools the game gives us.
Git gud.0 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Wearing good sets is just putting the game on easy mode, duh. You're supposed to outfit everyone in Death's Wind.Ghost-Shot wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You're splitting hairs over semantics. Having a rotation does not mean you don't react to the situation at hand and use your skills accordingly. Or are we going to argue about the definition of 'rotation' for 3 pages now just like we argued about the definitions of 'zerg' and 'group'? Every build for every roll has rotations that you commit to muscle memory, that's just part of becoming a skilled player. Sorcs have Curse/Entropy/Entropy/Frags/Execute for dps. DKs have Prox/Fossilize/Meteor/Talons/Whip/Whip/Whip. So please do keep telling me how 'non zergers' have no rotations.Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
that is actually exactly his point, no non zerger will ever have ANY rotation as you have to react to the situation and not force the situation upon your opponents by massivly outnumbering them.
While we're at it, what's with the forcing 'the situation upon your opponents by massively outnumbering them'? The post you're addressing was talking about '8-24 man groups', to say they don't react to situations because they just massively outnumber everyone is dumbing things down in the most oversimplified way possible. Or do 8-24 man groups never fight other 8-24 man groups? Or even larger blobs of pugs or groups + pugs?
what a horrible rotation...
any skilled sorc would not use that (as a 1st hint the executioning effect of the sorc execute lingers for 4 secs...)
anyway what i ment by forcing the situation upon your opponents it´s just a matter of numbers, the more players your group consists of the more specialized in skillusage each player becomes and the less skill is involved in using your abilities "properly". simplest example is a dedicated purge spammer in a 4-6man group you can not have one in a 12+ man group its easily possible and recommended as it eleminates an error source by stupidly spamming it.
ZOS added a set that buffs the group when someone casts a support ability, why would we not put someone in that set and tell them you are gonna purge, the more you purge the more we have that buff. Its not a matter of lack of skill its a matter of using the tools the game gives us.
Git gud.
Ya know I've been wondering why there seems to be a lot of Death's Wind going around these days... must be DAOC or something.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread...
Pointless arguing over semantics and "my way of playing is better than yours." No wonder the developers don't listen to us. And I don't blame them.Edited by Joy_Division on February 22, 2016 11:40PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭PosternHouse wrote: »Rofl...Woke up to 53 new posts from people crying about me mentioning DAOC and how no MMOs have any other relation to this unique snowflake of a game.
Its so adorable how many first time MMO players are in this game..I'm really surprised Vehemence managed to get so many newcomers *grin*
Oooooh look out guys he's played a lot of MMO's, we're just a bunch of peasant first time MMO gamers. We should take him seriously in spite of the fact that he hasn't figured out he's not playing DAoC.
I'm surprised you've not figured out you're playing an MMO yet
You're just adorable....
Tells someone they can't figure out they're playing an MMO.
Doesn't understand what the M and M stand for in MMO.
Under 5 is clearly massive to some people
So UO wasn't an MMO? Since it didn't have a group UI at all?
Maybe you newcomers to MMOs should practice more.
Your game is weak lol.
Congrats. You are old. And completely biased in a game designed to be large groups/raids/zergs. whatever.
imo size doesnt matter. Zerg is not a noun. Its a adjective.
If you are in a 24 man raid and you attack another large raid its not zerging.
Zerging is when that raid crushes a small group or soloer. You zerg them down.
Guess what though. Those small "elite" groups do the aame thing to soloers. Because you are no different. AP is AP.
Watch the streamers. they 4 on 1 people all day long. Still zerging them down.
Now get back in game and get the useless AP2 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I feel sad for those people who didn't play it before IC release and didn't see pvp where you didn't need to stack om 5m² to be successfull.9 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »Rofl...Woke up to 53 new posts from people crying about me mentioning DAOC and how no MMOs have any other relation to this unique snowflake of a game.
Its so adorable how many first time MMO players are in this game..I'm really surprised Vehemence managed to get so many newcomers *grin*
Oooooh look out guys he's played a lot of MMO's, we're just a bunch of peasant first time MMO gamers. We should take him seriously in spite of the fact that he hasn't figured out he's not playing DAoC.
I'm surprised you've not figured out you're playing an MMO yet
You're just adorable....
Tells someone they can't figure out they're playing an MMO.
Doesn't understand what the M and M stand for in MMO.
Under 5 is clearly massive to some people
So UO wasn't an MMO? Since it didn't have a group UI at all?
Maybe you newcomers to MMOs should practice more.
Your game is weak lol.
Congrats. You are old. And completely biased in a game designed to be large groups/raids/zergs. whatever.
imo size doesnt matter. Zerg is not a noun. Its a adjective.
If you are in a 24 man raid and you attack another large raid its not zerging.
Zerging is when that raid crushes a small group or soloer. You zerg them down.
Guess what though. Those small "elite" groups do the aame thing to soloers. Because you are no different. AP is AP.
Watch the streamers. they 4 on 1 people all day long. Still zerging them down.
Now get back in game and get the useless AP
Rofl every time you say something foolish like the game being designed for large groups/raids/zergs you don't help your cause
DAOC and WAR both were large scale pvp games that this game borrowed its entire Ava system from; both games considered large groups to be zergs and did not make the distinction between them. In other words if you were running 24 people and you fought another 24 man Zerg.. You were doing Zerg vs Zerg; same if you fought more people. You zerging was not downgraded just cause you got out zerged.
As for 4vs1.. Yes it would be zerging for example in the stealthers meta.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »Rofl...Woke up to 53 new posts from people crying about me mentioning DAOC and how no MMOs have any other relation to this unique snowflake of a game.
Its so adorable how many first time MMO players are in this game..I'm really surprised Vehemence managed to get so many newcomers *grin*
Oooooh look out guys he's played a lot of MMO's, we're just a bunch of peasant first time MMO gamers. We should take him seriously in spite of the fact that he hasn't figured out he's not playing DAoC.
I'm surprised you've not figured out you're playing an MMO yet
You're just adorable....
Tells someone they can't figure out they're playing an MMO.
Doesn't understand what the M and M stand for in MMO.
Under 5 is clearly massive to some people
So UO wasn't an MMO? Since it didn't have a group UI at all?
Maybe you newcomers to MMOs should practice more.
Your game is weak lol.
Congrats. You are old. And completely biased in a game designed to be large groups/raids/zergs. whatever.
imo size doesnt matter. Zerg is not a noun. Its a adjective.
If you are in a 24 man raid and you attack another large raid its not zerging.
Zerging is when that raid crushes a small group or soloer. You zerg them down.
Guess what though. Those small "elite" groups do the aame thing to soloers. Because you are no different. AP is AP.
Watch the streamers. they 4 on 1 people all day long. Still zerging them down.
Now get back in game and get the useless AP
Rofl every time you say something foolish like the game being designed for large groups/raids/zergs you don't help your cause
DAOC and WAR both were large scale pvp games that this game borrowed its entire Ava system from; both games considered large groups to be zergs and did not make the distinction between them. In other words if you were running 24 people and you fought another 24 man Zerg.. You were doing Zerg vs Zerg; same if you fought more people. You zerging was not downgraded just cause you got out zerged.
As for 4vs1.. Yes it would be zerging for example in the stealthers meta.
Maybe in your mind that's the way WAR was. In my experience, 24 on 24 was warband vs. warband (and was pretty common). The only time 'zerg' was used was in situations like Darnathian described.Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf0 -
babanovac✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »Rofl...Woke up to 53 new posts from people crying about me mentioning DAOC and how no MMOs have any other relation to this unique snowflake of a game.
Its so adorable how many first time MMO players are in this game..I'm really surprised Vehemence managed to get so many newcomers *grin*
Oooooh look out guys he's played a lot of MMO's, we're just a bunch of peasant first time MMO gamers. We should take him seriously in spite of the fact that he hasn't figured out he's not playing DAoC.
I'm surprised you've not figured out you're playing an MMO yet
You're just adorable....
Tells someone they can't figure out they're playing an MMO.
Doesn't understand what the M and M stand for in MMO.
Under 5 is clearly massive to some people
So UO wasn't an MMO? Since it didn't have a group UI at all?
Maybe you newcomers to MMOs should practice more.
Your game is weak lol.
Congrats. You are old. And completely biased in a game designed to be large groups/raids/zergs. whatever.
imo size doesnt matter. Zerg is not a noun. Its a adjective.
If you are in a 24 man raid and you attack another large raid its not zerging.
Zerging is when that raid crushes a small group or soloer. You zerg them down.
Guess what though. Those small "elite" groups do the aame thing to soloers. Because you are no different. AP is AP.
Watch the streamers. they 4 on 1 people all day long. Still zerging them down.
Now get back in game and get the useless AP
Rofl every time you say something foolish like the game being designed for large groups/raids/zergs you don't help your cause
DAOC and WAR both were large scale pvp games that this game borrowed its entire Ava system from; both games considered large groups to be zergs and did not make the distinction between them. In other words if you were running 24 people and you fought another 24 man Zerg.. You were doing Zerg vs Zerg; same if you fought more people. You zerging was not downgraded just cause you got out zerged.
As for 4vs1.. Yes it would be zerging for example in the stealthers meta.
Maybe in your mind that's the way WAR was. In my experience, 24 on 24 was warband vs. warband (and was pretty common). The only time 'zerg' was used was in situations like Darnathian described.
I have to agree with this. In my own experience, in WAR an organized guild warband of 24 men was not a zerg. The zerg was the unorganized 100+ people we would fight with our warband. That's how everyone else saw it, so no idea where Xsorus heard anyone call a 24 man warband a zerg in WAR.1 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.Besides, when 1vXing you need EVERY spot on your bar to be effective. Why clutter space with superfluous attacks when you need every single one for buffs, heals and sustain? Find what works, build around it, get good.
So you´re telling me what i´ve been saying all along - it´s a problem that running in a large grp or xv1ing you don´t need every skill on your bar to be effective resulting in that mindless buttonmashing that you´re trying to sell as organised skillful large grp play?Ghost-Shot wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Do you have a decent source for this or are you just projecting your hopes and desires onto Camelot Unchained without basis?
There are enough hints in the forum pointing towards groups of maximum 8 players.
CU will / want to support large scale combat, but not large groups.
I'm also pretty sure that stacking will have huge consequences. Spamming one button won't work either btw.
The combat system thankfully won't be spammy. I think everyone is glad for that. The higher the skill ceiling the better, it's been frustrating to see it continually lowered in this game to the place we are at now, where the meta can be boiled down to "BOOM!!" (This new meta brought to you by Michael Bay)
Well the player sure did not like the fast paced quick reaction time 1.6 combat. It´s almost as bad as 1.5 nowadays.You're working real hard to police the gameplay of people who seem to have a better grasp of how to play than you.
Sure if abusing every broken mechanic or skill not working as intended to the maximum is a better grasp of how to play in your book - i admit i have to l2p in that regard. I just don´t want to.
Pretty revealing about someones character to run around with such an attitude i have to admit. You´re not trying out bdo by chance?
Almost as if some skills are better than others and work together with other good skills. In a game players do this thing called min maxing which means finding the best combos and builds and using them. If you don't want to get good, at least try not hating on everyone who did.
Also helllll no to BDO. CU is our future destination.
They won´t support your grpsize most likely though
Good players adapt to the game. If the game is designed around a smaller team that is whatever wil be running. I appreciate your concern tho.
Are we done now with the "min-maxing in a MMORPG is bad" tangent?
I´d have no problem with loosing to players actually putting thought into the game. The players i´ve been discribing are only min maxing in terms of: Maximise the amout of ppl you bring to minimise the personal risk while only using one skill ever.
*shrug* I guess everyone understands something different about that term.
I'm trying to charitably interpret that you're not losing fights to terrible players that literally only use one skill, but you keep on giving pushback lol. If you can't figure out how to beat players *that* bad than I dunno what to tell you.
Perhaps try using your abilities?
You mean like: Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush Ambush?
While your friend is like: BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL?
And that one guy in the back: Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe?
Sorry that´s excatly the problem. Using only one skill only works when you are outnumbering the opponent - not when you´re outnumbered. You would know that if you´d ever been in the latter situation.
So i´m taking your charity with the same enthusiams as i´d shake the left hand of a farmer in india.
Can you actually go get some experience before commenting here? I personally runt he EXACT same rotation if we are 8 people as I do if we are 24. Theres no need for more than 1 AoE ability and 1 single target ability save for maybe adding an execute. The res are buffs and group utility that for the most part don't need to be spammed unless you fail to understand how the games buff system works. Or would you prefer me to cast rally after every single tornado, would that be better?
Yeah that´s one of the games problems. It lets players get away with builds like you´re discribing by letting them grp up in numbers where it becomes more efficient to just spam one skill (most effective with multi purpose skills) until the button breaks instead of having to use multiple skills situationally.
Also ingame large grps are forum raids aswell eh?
Personally the game becomes easier the more people in your group, but I don't think it's fair to say people in those groups only spam one ability and don't react to a changing situation. Sometimes you need to heal, sometimes you need to purge, sometimes you need to cast rapids and stop attacking, sometimes you need to do some damage. I don't think you can make a build that doesn't incorporate at least three of those as either solo or group play. I've fought a lot of enemy groups in the time that I've played this game who were of the mindset, "just spam your ability harder and you'll be fine". It never goes well for them. They always die to the groups who play the way you say they don't. I can see the perspective of a small group player thinking this because they can't force the larger group to use more than one ability. Plenty of times against lesser numbers I'll just stand there and not cast anything because it's not necessary. When the time comes, though, guaranteed a lot more thought goes into it than just pressing one button.
When I was dueling on the PTS (I've never dueled before this) it only took me a few fights before I knew what every class was going to do to me. That's not really dynamic combat either. The ambush spam from group oriented nightblades looks no different than if a solo stam DK was in that video to me. Trying to ridicule someone for running skills that benefit the group more than the player is stupid. I saw a lot of large group players on the PTS, and they weren't spamming ambush and steel tornado. Only certain special players would do that.4 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
I think it's more that you were spamming Ambush because of the issues with it locking people down so they can't use abilities or move.
I'm indifferent to the whole thing, just giving the perspective of those complaining. If it was any other gap closer it might not get the same QQ.
It's kind of boring gameplay to just spam one button, IMO. I run very different setups for solo/small man than I do when I run in large groups.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
I think it's more that you were spamming Ambush because of the issues with it locking people down so they can't use abilities or move.
I'm indifferent to the whole thing, just giving the perspective of those complaining. If it was any other gap closer it might not get the same QQ.
It's kind of boring gameplay to just spam one button, IMO. I run very different setups for solo/small man than I do when I run in large groups.
I get the same bar lock when someone decides to crit charge spam the F out of me. But that's ok because they're elite solo players
I don't mind having a main attack tho. If you run steel tornado main you weave it with caltrops, Rapids, vigor, etc. If magica you're sapping while working in prox det, fear, siphoning, cross heals, etc. One button play is always bad, one main attack is just smart play if you can get it.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
I think it's more that you were spamming Ambush because of the issues with it locking people down so they can't use abilities or move.
I'm indifferent to the whole thing, just giving the perspective of those complaining. If it was any other gap closer it might not get the same QQ.
It's kind of boring gameplay to just spam one button, IMO. I run very different setups for solo/small man than I do when I run in large groups.
I get the same bar lock when someone decides to crit charge spam the F out of me. But that's ok because they're elite solo players
I don't mind having a main attack tho. If you run steel tornado main you weave it with caltrops, Rapids, vigor, etc. If magica you're sapping while working in prox det, fear, siphoning, cross heals, etc. One button play is always bad, one main attack is just smart play if you can get it.
100% agree, though I find it funny when people QQ about gap closer spam when they are running away...what else are we supposed to do? Just let you run off to the sunset? Oh shucks guys, he's running away, can't use my gap closers on him!Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
I think it's more that you were spamming Ambush because of the issues with it locking people down so they can't use abilities or move.
I'm indifferent to the whole thing, just giving the perspective of those complaining. If it was any other gap closer it might not get the same QQ.
It's kind of boring gameplay to just spam one button, IMO. I run very different setups for solo/small man than I do when I run in large groups.
I get the same bar lock when someone decides to crit charge spam the F out of me. But that's ok because they're elite solo players
I don't mind having a main attack tho. If you run steel tornado main you weave it with caltrops, Rapids, vigor, etc. If magica you're sapping while working in prox det, fear, siphoning, cross heals, etc. One button play is always bad, one main attack is just smart play if you can get it.
100% agree, though I find it funny when people QQ about gap closer spam when they are running away...what else are we supposed to do? Just let you run off to the sunset? Oh shucks guys, he's running away, can't use my gap closers on him!
Pretty much. If someone wants to run a cheesy shuffle/vigor/rally/perma roll dodge build I'll lock em down with gap closers every time. Otherwise they'll just run run run and than turn around with thier own burst combo of gap closer > WB/SA > ulti.
Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost2 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
I think it's more that you were spamming Ambush because of the issues with it locking people down so they can't use abilities or move.
I'm indifferent to the whole thing, just giving the perspective of those complaining. If it was any other gap closer it might not get the same QQ.
It's kind of boring gameplay to just spam one button, IMO. I run very different setups for solo/small man than I do when I run in large groups.
I get the same bar lock when someone decides to crit charge spam the F out of me. But that's ok because they're elite solo players
I don't mind having a main attack tho. If you run steel tornado main you weave it with caltrops, Rapids, vigor, etc. If magica you're sapping while working in prox det, fear, siphoning, cross heals, etc. One button play is always bad, one main attack is just smart play if you can get it.
100% agree, though I find it funny when people QQ about gap closer spam when they are running away...what else are we supposed to do? Just let you run off to the sunset? Oh shucks guys, he's running away, can't use my gap closers on him!
If it's me, yes. You have to knock and be welcomed in first before entering my house.2 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darnathian wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »Rofl...Woke up to 53 new posts from people crying about me mentioning DAOC and how no MMOs have any other relation to this unique snowflake of a game.
Its so adorable how many first time MMO players are in this game..I'm really surprised Vehemence managed to get so many newcomers *grin*
Oooooh look out guys he's played a lot of MMO's, we're just a bunch of peasant first time MMO gamers. We should take him seriously in spite of the fact that he hasn't figured out he's not playing DAoC.
I'm surprised you've not figured out you're playing an MMO yet
You're just adorable....
Tells someone they can't figure out they're playing an MMO.
Doesn't understand what the M and M stand for in MMO.
Under 5 is clearly massive to some people
So UO wasn't an MMO? Since it didn't have a group UI at all?
Maybe you newcomers to MMOs should practice more.
Your game is weak lol.
Congrats. You are old. And completely biased in a game designed to be large groups/raids/zergs. whatever.
imo size doesnt matter. Zerg is not a noun. Its a adjective.
If you are in a 24 man raid and you attack another large raid its not zerging.
Zerging is when that raid crushes a small group or soloer. You zerg them down.
Guess what though. Those small "elite" groups do the aame thing to soloers. Because you are no different. AP is AP.
Watch the streamers. they 4 on 1 people all day long. Still zerging them down.
Now get back in game and get the useless AP
Rofl every time you say something foolish like the game being designed for large groups/raids/zergs you don't help your cause
DAOC and WAR both were large scale pvp games that this game borrowed its entire Ava system from; both games considered large groups to be zergs and did not make the distinction between them. In other words if you were running 24 people and you fought another 24 man Zerg.. You were doing Zerg vs Zerg; same if you fought more people. You zerging was not downgraded just cause you got out zerged.
As for 4vs1.. Yes it would be zerging for example in the stealthers meta.
Guys he mentioned daoc...we better listen to him since he has a lot of mmo experience and we're all plebes before him
OMG DAOC, he must do DAOC things. DAOC is awesome.0 -
Fruitdog✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »This thread...
Pointless arguing over semantics and "my way of playing is better than yours." No wonder the developers don't listen to us. And I don't blame them.
Agreed, I can't believe I keep coming back to read this train wreck.
[snip]
Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on February 24, 2016 3:39PM3
This discussion has been closed.