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Rofl at the Vicious Death Set..
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Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »This thread...
Pointless arguing over semantics and "my way of playing is better than yours." No wonder the developers don't listen to us. And I don't blame them.
Agreed, I can't believe I keep coming back to read this train wreck.spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »
I'm gonna make this my avatar in TS so Steve will remember.
As long as you're there and not playing the Witcher I'm good !
I already have separation anxiety.Edited by Satiar on February 23, 2016 8:40PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Daveheart✭✭✭✭Witcher so good though.
Yes it is Mano. However, raiding without Fruity sucks. I have nobody to blame for everything.
I forgot that I blame him for everything even when he's not around. Somebody died riding off of a cliff? Blame Fruity. Steve makes us turn around and ride half way across the map? Blame Fruity. I suggest you try it too Mano. It's fun.Edited by Daveheart on February 23, 2016 9:11PMDaggerfall Covenant (PC-NA)
The Order of Mundus | Nightfighters2 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LOL, I can't believe Books ratted me out!
You actually told me
You were drunk tho so it's ok
Whiskey heals all wounds.... Just like you will heal me when I push into 80 reds ahead of the group tonight! There is no escapeEdited by Satiar on February 23, 2016 9:14PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »
https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game). Large grps lock out every other playstyle from participation.
I don´t like working 1 shot snipe ganking for the same reasoning.Edited by Derra on February 23, 2016 9:56PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
CN_Daniel✭✭✭✭I stopped reading at page like 10, couldn't do it any longer.
Let me explain very clearly what's going to happen with this set:
Out of 20 people in my group; 15 will be wearing this set. All 15 of those people will be using proxy. You think we burst you down fast meow? hahahaha....wait until everyone we kill blows up for another 10-15k in damage.....
This set is not good for PvP. It, like proxy, will just be another tool large groups use that was originally intended for small teams....but in actuality will only increase the strength of a large group.
4 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
This isn't some game abuse by the aristocratic Zerg Class, it is quite literally the best way to for anyone to play a game with these mechanics.
For the love of God, teamwork is good! Back when all Teargrants and I did was duo I left executes off my bar because he had the Sorc execute which meant I could use that spot for Fear. In 4-8 man play you grab healers to sustain you so you can slip into familiar damage/tank/debuff roles without being constantly worried about your health. In 12-24 you have healers heal so DPS don't have to, magica dps purging so the healers don't have to, support builds hitting Rapids so 20 others have free slots... The joy of games like these is optimizing your build and team at every level. It's not gaming the system, it's playing the game the right way.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.Edited by Derra on February 23, 2016 10:15PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person.
Whether I die to a soloer, small group, or large group, death recaps are almost always the same. Not sure what game you're playing. Anyone that has more than 2 main attacks on their bars is doing it wrong, also notice that a main attack is not a utility skill that still does damage, we're talking primary dps skills here. If you're going to keep arguing that, I can't recommend for anyone here to keep wasting their time.Edited by Zheg on February 23, 2016 10:14PM2 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Reverb, Bash, LA, Ransack, Bash, LA, Ransack, Bash, LA, Ransack, Bash, LA...LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.0 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
I think it's more that you were spamming Ambush because of the issues with it locking people down so they can't use abilities or move.
I'm indifferent to the whole thing, just giving the perspective of those complaining. If it was any other gap closer it might not get the same QQ.
It's kind of boring gameplay to just spam one button, IMO. I run very different setups for solo/small man than I do when I run in large groups.
I get the same bar lock when someone decides to crit charge spam the F out of me. But that's ok because they're elite solo players
I don't mind having a main attack tho. If you run steel tornado main you weave it with caltrops, Rapids, vigor, etc. If magica you're sapping while working in prox det, fear, siphoning, cross heals, etc. One button play is always bad, one main attack is just smart play if you can get it.
100% agree, though I find it funny when people QQ about gap closer spam when they are running away...what else are we supposed to do? Just let you run off to the sunset? Oh shucks guys, he's running away, can't use my gap closers on him!
Pretty much. If someone wants to run a cheesy shuffle/vigor/rally/perma roll dodge build I'll lock em down with gap closers every time. Otherwise they'll just run run run and than turn around with thier own burst combo of gap closer > WB/SA > ulti.
As someone who runs this on their stamplar I expect this and never get angry, there's not many other ways to put that kind of build down.1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP aside, a sentiment I'm fond of in regards to PvP is that moral victories are not real victories. You don't get bonus points for dying with 1, 2, 3, or 4 nonsense skills on your bar, you just get dead. No one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
[snip]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on February 24, 2016 3:44PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost3 -
AbraXuSeXile wrote: »So many sets look nice on paper, when put into practise they are garbage.
it is garbage for most, but for top players/guilds its gold. if All the magica dps in a raid run it so you can get free 15k aoe off every second kill your golden. if only one guy runs it becuase the others want a tad more damage on the tooltip it wont be great.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »Rofl...Woke up to 53 new posts from people crying about me mentioning DAOC and how no MMOs have any other relation to this unique snowflake of a game.
Its so adorable how many first time MMO players are in this game..I'm really surprised Vehemence managed to get so many newcomers *grin*
Oooooh look out guys he's played a lot of MMO's, we're just a bunch of peasant first time MMO gamers. We should take him seriously in spite of the fact that he hasn't figured out he's not playing DAoC.
I'm surprised you've not figured out you're playing an MMO yet
You're just adorable....
Tells someone they can't figure out they're playing an MMO.
Doesn't understand what the M and M stand for in MMO.
Under 5 is clearly massive to some people
So UO wasn't an MMO? Since it didn't have a group UI at all?
Maybe you newcomers to MMOs should practice more.
Your game is weak lol.
Congrats. You are old. And completely biased in a game designed to be large groups/raids/zergs. whatever.
imo size doesnt matter. Zerg is not a noun. Its a adjective.
If you are in a 24 man raid and you attack another large raid its not zerging.
Zerging is when that raid crushes a small group or soloer. You zerg them down.
Guess what though. Those small "elite" groups do the aame thing to soloers. Because you are no different. AP is AP.
Watch the streamers. they 4 on 1 people all day long. Still zerging them down.
Now get back in game and get the useless AP
Rofl every time you say something foolish like the game being designed for large groups/raids/zergs you don't help your cause
DAOC and WAR both were large scale pvp games that this game borrowed its entire Ava system from; both games considered large groups to be zergs and did not make the distinction between them. In other words if you were running 24 people and you fought another 24 man Zerg.. You were doing Zerg vs Zerg; same if you fought more people. You zerging was not downgraded just cause you got out zerged.
As for 4vs1.. Yes it would be zerging for example in the stealthers meta.
Maybe in your mind that's the way WAR was. In my experience, 24 on 24 was warband vs. warband (and was pretty common). The only time 'zerg' was used was in situations like Darnathian described.
no one called a warband fighting another warband that....
It was pretty much always called zerg vs zerg.
Pretty much for the fact that you often didn't have just a single Warband in any area fighting another single Warband. Most groups were 6 mans in that game...If it was past 6 it was usually a crapton more people then a single Warband..We're talking 50+ people basically.
This is how it was on all 3 Warhammer Online servers I played on...Skullthrone/Ironrock/Badlandshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Reverb, Bash, LA, Ransack, Bash, LA, Ransack, Bash, LA, Ransack, Bash, LA...LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Technically that'd be 3 attacks.
4 if ya count Shield Charge
anyway i don't see anything wrong with Satiar spamming Ambush simply cause its probably the most effective way to play his nightblade in his zerg.
Should have a min range on it though...Don't know why they insist on leaving it without one.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Dyride✭✭✭✭✭Magicka Sorcs, which @Derra is most familiar with, are the outlier to the simplified dps scheme @Satiar and @Zheg mention.
This is because Sorcs typically rely on timing burst spread across several abilities rather than relying on pressure from single spammable ability or dots.
V Є H Є M Є И C Є
Revenge of the Bear
ØMNI
Solongandthanksforallthef
Revenge of the Hist
Revenge of the Deer
Remember the Great Burn of of the Blackwater War!
#FreeArgonia1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP aside, a sentiment I'm fond of in regards to PvP is that moral victories are not real victories. You don't get bonus points for dying with 1, 2, 3, or 4 nonsense skills on your bar, you just get dead. No one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
Comparing theorycrafting good builds to bumping up the price of pharmaceuticals by 700% (or whatever) is asinine.
If you´re telling me i lack knowledge of smallscale pvp while making the above statements idk what to say to you. If you ever had any idea about smallscale pvp and builds it´s been long gone i guess.
Good builds don´t consist of one or two attacks (NB being an arguable case). Because they die against competent opponents fighting equal numbers.
I´m only comparing persons playing by the rules of the system while bending over everyone else in the process of doing so - if you can´t tell which of the two examples i´m discribing by this the comparison isn´t as asinine as you´d like it to be.Edited by Derra on February 24, 2016 8:39AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Rofl. @Etaniel @LegendaryChef wanna join in on this?LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP
*summoning complete*
Fyi, Derra is one of the top small scale sorcs in EU, not talking about duelling, but open world, random encounter small scale PvP in groups of 2-4. "Lack" of knowledge and "Derra" just don't go together. He's also a great group leader and the one that dies the least out of the group. I just thought you should know before continuing the debate.... But enough of that...LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP asideNo one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
He's not complaining about small scalers who spam 1 attack, as people who run fotm builds with one spammable button don't pose a threat to us. If i'm not mistaken, and if I've read these 20 pages right, the original complaint is that large groups can get away with playing with only one bar in the lag they create (lag which they complain about, but I guess it's way too complicated for them to draw a connection between their playstyle and server performance). And so by playing like this, they lock small scalers into using one bar as well because weapon swap becomes unresponsive, and we just can't do with that3 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Rofl. @Etaniel @LegendaryChef wanna join in on this?LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP
*summoning complete*
Fyi, Derra is one of the top small scale sorcs in EU, not talking about duelling, but open world, random encounter small scale PvP in groups of 2-4. "Lack" of knowledge and "Derra" just don't go together. He's also a great group leader and the one that dies the least out of the group. I just thought you should know before continuing the debate.... But enough of that...LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP asideNo one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
He's not complaining about small scalers who spam 1 attack, as people who run fotm builds with one spammable button don't pose a threat to us. If i'm not mistaken, and if I've read these 20 pages right, the original complaint is that large groups can get away with playing with only one bar in the lag they create (lag which they complain about, but I guess it's way too complicated for them to draw a connection between their playstyle and server performance). And so by playing like this, they lock small scalers into using one bar as well because weapon swap becomes unresponsive, and we just can't do with that
I don't care who Derra is, he's wrong about some very fundamental aspects of the game. If he's a great player, awesome, but that's even less of an excuse to be ignorant of these things. I am legitimately dumbfounded at some of the things he's said in here. If there's some resentment from my end, it's because from post one he's been nothing but disdainful, aggressive and hostile. At a certain point you lose the benefit of the doubt, and if he wanted any respect at all he should have thought about giving some out himself.
As to the bar swapping, no one can get away with playing on one bar. Most of my main DPS skills are on my main bar and most of my heals, buffs and DoTs are on the other. I like to set it up so I can spend longer amounts of time on my Dual Wield as opposed to my resto, but I frequently switch between both during any fight.
Also yes, he was complaining about small scale people spamming one button. Went on and on about people spamming "bash" and "snipe" and "BoL" etc. Two of those are single target (hardly group skills) and the third is the best heal in the game so why even complain about someone using it?Edited by Satiar on February 24, 2016 8:40AMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP aside, a sentiment I'm fond of in regards to PvP is that moral victories are not real victories. You don't get bonus points for dying with 1, 2, 3, or 4 nonsense skills on your bar, you just get dead. No one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
Comparing theorycrafting good builds to bumping up the price of pharmaceuticals by 700% (or whatever) is asinine.
If you´re telling me i lack knowledge of smallscale pvp while making the above statements idk what to say to you. If you ever had any idea about smallscale pvp and builds it´s been long gone i guess.
Good builds don´t consist of one or two attacks (NB being an arguable case). Because they die against competent opponents fighting equal numbers.
I´m only comparing persons playing by the rules of the system while bending over everyone else in the process of doing so - if you can´t tell which of the two examples i´m discribing by this the comparison isn´t as asinine as you´d like it to be.
I really dunno man. Etaniel vouches for you as a great player but you literally don't seem to understand the concept of minimizing redundant skills and maximizing the use of your limited bar space. That's PvP 101 right there.
And no one is bending anyone over. Unless you simply resent decent PvP guilds for daring to exist and play a RvRvR game, I have no idea what you're on about.
Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Rofl. @Etaniel @LegendaryChef wanna join in on this?LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP
*summoning complete*
Fyi, Derra is one of the top small scale sorcs in EU, not talking about duelling, but open world, random encounter small scale PvP in groups of 2-4. "Lack" of knowledge and "Derra" just don't go together. He's also a great group leader and the one that dies the least out of the group. I just thought you should know before continuing the debate.... But enough of that...LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP asideNo one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
He's not complaining about small scalers who spam 1 attack, as people who run fotm builds with one spammable button don't pose a threat to us. If i'm not mistaken, and if I've read these 20 pages right, the original complaint is that large groups can get away with playing with only one bar in the lag they create (lag which they complain about, but I guess it's way too complicated for them to draw a connection between their playstyle and server performance). And so by playing like this, they lock small scalers into using one bar as well because weapon swap becomes unresponsive, and we just can't do with that
I don't care who Derra is, he's wrong about some very fundamental aspects of the game. If he's a great player, awesome, but that's even less of an excuse to be ignorant of these things. I am legitimately dumbfounded at some of the things he's said in here. If there's some resentment from my end, it's because from post one he's been nothing but disdainful, aggressive and hostile. At a certain point you lose the benefit of the doubt, and if he wanted any respect at all he should have thought about giving some out himself.
As to the bar swapping, no one can get away with playing on one bar. Most of my main DPS skills are on my main bar and most of my heals, buffs and DoTs are on the other. I like to set it up so I can spend longer amounts of time on my Dual Wield as opposed to my resto, but I frequently switch between both during any fight.
Well you should care, if him being a top player plus a top theorycrafter doesn't tell you that he masters the game's fundamental aspects, then I don't know what will... I'm guessing the aspects you find fundamental aren't the same.
In a group of 12+, you can easily get away with playing only one bar. Looking at a typical steelnado slave, he might cast a few buffs in between fights, but when the encounter starts, it's 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 , all dead? let's move out recast buffs and start again.
It's actually really funny when zerglings try small scaling with the same tactics (actually trying to small scale, not talking about the guys who get left behind their group) because it just doesn't work out for them.4 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Rofl. @Etaniel @LegendaryChef wanna join in on this?LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP
*summoning complete*
Fyi, Derra is one of the top small scale sorcs in EU, not talking about duelling, but open world, random encounter small scale PvP in groups of 2-4. "Lack" of knowledge and "Derra" just don't go together. He's also a great group leader and the one that dies the least out of the group. I just thought you should know before continuing the debate.... But enough of that...LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP asideNo one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
He's not complaining about small scalers who spam 1 attack, as people who run fotm builds with one spammable button don't pose a threat to us. If i'm not mistaken, and if I've read these 20 pages right, the original complaint is that large groups can get away with playing with only one bar in the lag they create (lag which they complain about, but I guess it's way too complicated for them to draw a connection between their playstyle and server performance). And so by playing like this, they lock small scalers into using one bar as well because weapon swap becomes unresponsive, and we just can't do with that
I don't care who Derra is, he's wrong about some very fundamental aspects of the game. If he's a great player, awesome, but that's even less of an excuse to be ignorant of these things. I am legitimately dumbfounded at some of the things he's said in here. If there's some resentment from my end, it's because from post one he's been nothing but disdainful, aggressive and hostile. At a certain point you lose the benefit of the doubt, and if he wanted any respect at all he should have thought about giving some out himself.
As to the bar swapping, no one can get away with playing on one bar. Most of my main DPS skills are on my main bar and most of my heals, buffs and DoTs are on the other. I like to set it up so I can spend longer amounts of time on my Dual Wield as opposed to my resto, but I frequently switch between both during any fight.
Well you should care, if him being a top player plus a top theorycrafter doesn't tell you that he masters the game's fundamental aspects, then I don't know what will... I'm guessing the aspects you find fundamental aren't the same.
Really quite confusing. I've asked myself more than once in this debate why I'm arguing with someone of his alliance rank the benefits of min-maxing
I feel that should really just be something he knows by now.In a group of 12+, you can easily get away with playing only one bar. Looking at a typical steelnado slave, he might cast a few buffs in between fights, but when the encounter starts, it's 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 , all dead? let's move out recast buffs and start again.
You get away with playing one bar in that you're resting on your numbers alone. That works as long as you're fighting baddies. Than you run into people with well-rounded, min-maxed builds and playstyle and you get rekt. Even when I ran Steel Tornado main there was a solid rotation to go with it. Weave Retreating Maneuvers between casts, vigor, swap to SnB for > Reflect > fears > caltrops > minor brutality, etc. The sad thing is that against a bunch of randoms a steel tornado train going 11111111111 will probably be fairly effective. That same train will get demolished by a group actually doing useful things with the space on their bars.
[/quote]It's actually really funny when zerglings try small scaling with the same tactics (actually trying to small scale, not talking about the guys who get left behind their group) because it just doesn't work out for them.
I mean, yeah. Baddies gonna bad. What's that got to do with anything?Edited by Satiar on February 24, 2016 8:57AMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP aside, a sentiment I'm fond of in regards to PvP is that moral victories are not real victories. You don't get bonus points for dying with 1, 2, 3, or 4 nonsense skills on your bar, you just get dead. No one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
Comparing theorycrafting good builds to bumping up the price of pharmaceuticals by 700% (or whatever) is asinine.
If you´re telling me i lack knowledge of smallscale pvp while making the above statements idk what to say to you. If you ever had any idea about smallscale pvp and builds it´s been long gone i guess.
Good builds don´t consist of one or two attacks (NB being an arguable case). Because they die against competent opponents fighting equal numbers.
I´m only comparing persons playing by the rules of the system while bending over everyone else in the process of doing so - if you can´t tell which of the two examples i´m discribing by this the comparison isn´t as asinine as you´d like it to be.
I really dunno man. Etaniel vouches for you as a great player but you literally don't seem to understand the concept of minimizing redundant skills and maximizing the use of your limited bar space. That's PvP 101 right there.
And no one is bending anyone over. Unless you simply resent decent PvP guilds for daring to exist and play a RvRvR game, I have no idea what you're on about.
That´s the very core problem i´m ranting about. I don´t have a problem with large scale pvp guilds. I have a problem with 24 players being allowed into one grp in the process being able to create builds that are single purpose and do amazing at that but also only working in those very large grps.
With eso´s resource (lol) based spammable skill system that´s one of the core functionalities to avoid imo because you can optimize too much when in a really large grp.
I don´t resent large pvp guilds. I think the pvp would be better of when grps were of smaller size and many supporting abilities were limited grps so that they have to create function autonomous grps. In the process larger guilds would have to run with more grps without the benefits of having everyone in one raidui getting away with less support and more dps.
Coordination would become a signature of those large guilds again instead of having an addon with a giant arrow pointing out the direction of the crown.
I´m not stupid and understand that it´s about maximising efficiency - it´s simply that i think the system allows for too much optimisation eliminating everything not running with 16+ ppl because you can´t participate once those grps show up.
And that´s my main gripe. I can not participate when large organised grps show up because of how the game allows their builds to function on a completely different level than anything small to medium scale.
Every time those grps show up it´s game over. I can ride away. Large grps create an exclusive club denying participation for anyone not playing their way. The game should not work in that way in my opinion - period.
It´s too easy to do what those large grps are doing. Min maxing is about minimizing drawbacks on builds. Those grps don´t have any because they eliminate any drawback simply by having enough ppl. It´s only maxing - there is no longer a min. It´s max maxing.Edited by Derra on February 24, 2016 9:33AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you're all being narrow-minded. I've seen players excel with a wide variety of configurations in groups of all sizes. It all depends on who your opponents are, the location and what your game plan is.
If a player can be successful with just one or two abilities, all the power to him or her. A complicated system isn't inherently better or more impressive than a simple one. Whatever gets the job done as efficiently as possible.
As long as it's not exploiting, I don't have a problem with it. I am always amazed when players complain about opponents using too few abilities to kill them with.3 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »https://youtu.be/TkUEepRgkd8
I'll just leave this here to remind people of the skill level required to run in these zergs....
Error 1: meteor on a dk
Error 2: 16x ambush
Error 3: steel torando single target
For someone claiming to know so much about the game I really struggle to believe that.
Asvladr is a really good solo/small group player. He regularly destroyed people as a stam non-bow build during 1.5 (that's the first time I met him) and 1.6. Probably the first person I ever saw doing so well as a stam build back then.
Ah but you see, back than I spammed Shield Charge or crit charge, and this was considered a great display of skill. Oh for those simple days ...
But for reals, in a game with no skill cool down the best thing to do is find an effective skill and spam the F out of it: steel tornado, sap essence, wrecking blow, crit charge, surprise attack, ambush, overload. whatever. Conservation of bar space OP, dunno why people don't get that
That´s the problem. This playstyle is only vaible if you outnumber your opponent or have enough people in your grp to dedicate specific skills to every person - you can´t do that in smaller grps.
That´s why they should never have allowed grp of the size eso currently has. Because you´re playing the system. Most people don´t realize that they´re doing that - the ones that do realize it and do it anyway bc thats how the system works remind me of:
This guy.
They´re the prime indicator what´s wrong with the ruleset and while i blame the persons setting the rules too (hey zos) - it does not change what i think about the people playing with only personal interests in mind (and not giving two [snips] about how it affects others while playing the game).
No, even small man does this. Most stamina small man players pretty much just use Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow. Or Ambush + SA. Or WB + Jabs. The point you keep missing is that this is a universal thing in ESO. The best players find 1-2 damage skills that fit their playstyle (say.... Ambush + Steel tornado, Prox + Sap, Ambush + Wrecking blow, etc) and than fill up their bar with sustain, healing, utility, debuffs, etc.
It´s not. If you meet people in a 1v1 2v2 or just about anything up to 10v10 it´s not effective to play that way (except for maaaaybe wrecking blow - but that´s another discussion).
I´m actually trying to think of someone half decent i´ve met who only used 1 or 2 attacks. I can´t think of one person. We ravage people playing that way when fighting with equal numbers.
And when you say it´s playing the game the right way - that´s why i choose mr shkreli as an example. Pretty sure he felt he was doing the right thing to "win" in life.
Your lack of knowledge on small scale PvP aside, a sentiment I'm fond of in regards to PvP is that moral victories are not real victories. You don't get bonus points for dying with 1, 2, 3, or 4 nonsense skills on your bar, you just get dead. No one cares that you used three attacks and they used two, as far as they're concerned they found a more efficient combo and beat you with it. Either you can learn and get better and streamline your build or you can keep dying and complain about it on the forums.
Comparing theorycrafting good builds to bumping up the price of pharmaceuticals by 700% (or whatever) is asinine.
If you´re telling me i lack knowledge of smallscale pvp while making the above statements idk what to say to you. If you ever had any idea about smallscale pvp and builds it´s been long gone i guess.
Good builds don´t consist of one or two attacks (NB being an arguable case). Because they die against competent opponents fighting equal numbers.
I´m only comparing persons playing by the rules of the system while bending over everyone else in the process of doing so - if you can´t tell which of the two examples i´m discribing by this the comparison isn´t as asinine as you´d like it to be.
I really dunno man. Etaniel vouches for you as a great player but you literally don't seem to understand the concept of minimizing redundant skills and maximizing the use of your limited bar space. That's PvP 101 right there.
And no one is bending anyone over. Unless you simply resent decent PvP guilds for daring to exist and play a RvRvR game, I have no idea what you're on about.
That´s the very core problem i´m ranting about. I don´t have a problem with large scale pvp guilds. I have a problem with 24 players being allowed into one grp in the process being able to create builds that are single purpose and do amazing at that.
With eso´s resource (lol) based spammable skill system that´s one of the core functionalities to avoid imo because you can optimize too much when in a really large grp.
I don´t resent large pvp guilds. I think the pvp would be better of when grps were of smaller size and many supporting abilities were limited to those grps so that they have to function autonomous. In the process larger guilds would have to run with more grps without the benefits of having everyone in one raidui getting away with less support and more dps.
I´m not stupid and understand that it´s about maximising efficiency - it´s simply that i think the system allows for too much optimisation eliminating everything not running with 16+ ppl because you can´t participate once those grps show up.
Seems like several separate issues in here.
If you get that it's about maximizing efficiency than I have no idea what the point of the argument for the last bit has been. We've been arguing back and forth literally about maximizing bar space
Running more groups would be awesome, I'd much rather run 2-3 separate 8-12 mans than 1 24man. I may end up doing that anyway if the burst in this patch is too much.
I'd argue that those groups *should* be fought by other groups. Not that you can't participate but I see no reason why a guild that's specially built and optimized themselves should be able to be engaged by just any random anybody. There would be no point to having a group at all. The whole idea is different kinds of content. When the big group shows up the small group ends up going around to the backlines, taking the group head on is for another group. I don't see a way of getting around that.
I always found the fields and resources and backlines to be my content as a small group. Or harassing the raid inside a keep, whatever. But i never expected to just take them head on, they were built for big fights and had the numbers for it, we didn't have either of those things. And that was ok. Different content.It´s too easy to do what those large grps are doing.
Agreed. Skill cap keeps getting lowered. And is getting lowered this next patch, again.Edited by Satiar on February 24, 2016 9:33AMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Really quite confusing. I've asked myself more than once in this debate why I'm arguing with someone of his alliance rank the benefits of min-maxing
I feel that should really just be something he knows by now.
I don't see where he advocated against min maxing, it's just that to us it has an entirely different meaning that slotting one spammable dps skill and putting the rest in utility.In a group of 12+, you can easily get away with playing only one bar. Looking at a typical steelnado slave, he might cast a few buffs in between fights, but when the encounter starts, it's 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 , all dead? let's move out recast buffs and start again.
You get away with playing one bar in that you're resting on your numbers alone. That works as long as you're fighting baddies. Than you run into people with well-rounded, min-maxed builds and playstyle and you get rekt. Even when I ran Steel Tornado main there was a solid rotation to go with it. Weave Retreating Maneuvers between casts, vigor, swap to SnB for > Reflect > fears > caltrops > minor brutality, etc. The sad thing is that against a bunch of randoms a steel tornado train going 11111111111 will probably be fairly effective. That same train will get demolished by a group actually doing useful things with the space on their bars.
Resting on numbers alone is the core problem yes, and when you are running with 12 plus, you are relying on numbers the most. In my experience of running as a guest with Banana Squad and Astrum Herois, I find that most of the time fights are determined based on movement and timing, a lot more than skill min maxing. And the experience with Astrum is from a GvG event we had, 12v12 so no pugs involved.
People who keep playing in large numbers even when they are directly responsible for the lag are bending the player population over, that's just plain truth. And they can tolerate lag more than small scalers because they can play using one bar, since the great majority of the time they are not fighting GvG, but farming pug zergs.
And no one is bending anyone over. Unless you simply resent decent PvP guilds for daring to exist and play a RvRvR game, I have no idea what you're on about.
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This discussion has been closed.