Fecius wrote: »

And 3 bosses after 1,5 year from SO came live is not that, much at all… Hope that we will see more bosses in your next Trials or more Trials with same amount of bosses but more bosses. Like 10 bosses a year, maybe, please!

Yes, only 3 bosses is little disappointing no matter how hard they are. There should be 2 more mini-bosses instead of boring trash packs. But MoL has a lot of improvements compared to previous trials, that's nice

Fecius wrote: »

4. Hardly noticeable telegraph for White to Black glow change at 2nd boss. It can be a problem on some monitors with low contrast. And it's OK and noticeable for Black to White change.

This ^ is a very good point.

Addihul wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Beware the QQ:

I actually think a compromise between the 2nd boss now and the 2nd boss then would be best seeing how this is going at the moment.

As far as I've read, HODOR is the only guild calling for a trial buff at this point. Hope ZOS realizes that. The trial is plenty difficult. Non elite guilds are going to get absolutely wrecked.

Actually it's not true. I wish I could taste an original difficulty of the vMoL Trial for every boss and be the guild who will pass it "Pre nerf". You can't say "Only Hodor" when some of us just keep silence. Not everyone in this game using forums, etc. Not everyone will go and QQ for every reason. And really few of us will go for forums if they are pleased. 99% of forum posts are from guys who are not pleased with something. It's simply human nature.

And don't forget that a year ago it was our guild who managed to pass SO HM for World 1st, not Hodor. Never the less I respect every Hodor player and I admit that this time we can become second and they will be first. But this is what makes this Trial even more interesting for us.

Xjcon wrote: »

Are you NA? Have you been to the last boss with Templates in vet?

Ætherius Eight - Ebonheart Pact EU

Nope, it's close to impossible on templates and we have bad ping from EU to NA where the PTS is. And yesterday we couldn't even kill a 1st event mob-pack cause of multiple crashes on every pull.

I guess that full raid should show max numbers: from 501 CP, gold BIS items and really high DPS.

Cinbri wrote: »

I still didn't see how anyone completed vMoL.

This was exactly the same that people were saying about Serpent HM when they saw him a year ago. And he died 01.21.2015 if my memory doesn't lie to me.

Fecius wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Are you NA? Have you been to the last boss with Templates in vet?

Ætherius Eight - Ebonheart Pact EU

Nope, it's close to impossible on templates and we have bad ping from EU to NA where the PTS is. And yesterday we couldn't even kill a 1st event mob-pack cause of multiple crashes on every pull.

I guess that full raid should show max numbers: from 501 CP, gold BIS items and really high DPS.

Cinbri wrote: »

I still didn't see how anyone completed vMoL.

This was exactly the same that people were saying about Serpent HM when they saw him a year ago. And he died 01.21.2015 if my memory doesn't lie to me.

On NA we also struggled with the Event before the 2nd boss with Templates. Crashes and low DPS.

Finished on normal after only 4h half of trials and errors. We were 8 at first but around the last boss we managed to get a full grp. Also had another chance with few NA players few weeks back but we couldn't beat the 2nd boss. Thanks everyone who joined and thanks for the tips. And I hope I didn't spoiled the fun with some tactics here and there.

What I loved more than bosses themselves were the adds. For the first time adds seems to be more challenging than ever!
Boss 1... err didn't liked it much. It looks piece of cake on normal at least. But maybe that was me.
Boss 2 was very very very fun. No spoilers. I... loved it.
Boss 3. Are you kidding me?

Extra notes. Except around 2-3 crashes (w7x64, eso64) things went quite well. No massive frame drops. Good performance overall.
Graphics and design. Awesome indeed. You have to be there to fully understood it.
Questline. Again something new and interesting.

The crashes they are working on I hear. We've had some ZOS people in our TS taking ID's of those who crash most to see if they can find a way to stabilise thing. Fingers crossed.

I didn't want to have to comment, but I feel that I must. Before anyone gets butt-hurt or calls me a care bear, I want to establish that I am NOT calling anyone out with disrespect. The players/guilds I will refer to are all inspirations of mine and I respect each and every one of them. Now, let's get into my argument.

The people calling for a buff need to pause, think logically, and realize how selfish they are sounding. I will start by saying I am a console player, so I will say this from a console player's perspective, but I've seen all the big streams of people trying to do VMoL.

First boss - yes, this boss is too easy. I think many guilds on console will be able to stack and burn this boss. Perhaps gating his hp for at least one pillar phase, raising health, increasing his damage, increasing his shields, etc... would be fair compromises. Yes, this boss needs to be buffed.

Second boss - "It's too easy now." That isn't what ya'll were saying before the nerf. (besides Alcast) The nerf is not final, as said before, but I remember many guilds just getting wrecked by the 2nd bosses. "We didn't have our real characters" Simply an excuse. A valid excuse, yes, but an excuse non-the-less. Not many people on console have 501 CP, all yellow gear, and the best players with unparalleled chemistry. Heck, even PC players don't all have 501 + All yellow + 25-30k single target DPS. First and foremost, before thinking about nerfs and buffs, the boss mechanics need to be addressed and fixed ASAP. The white ---> black color change is absolutely way too hard to see and needs to be changed. Secondly, I think the boss is fine as it was pre-nerf. NA guilds with 501 CP and yellow gear were struggling to even get it to half or below health. (I use NA guilds as a reference because I realize EU has terrible fps in there as the PTS is in NA, but even the best EU guilds were struggling). Lastly, it seems as if most people are letting this nerf cloud their judgment. ZoS already stated it will be rolled back, but since noone was clearing the 2nd boss, they had to nerf it to get data for the final boss.

And no offense @asneakybanana , but nobody beat the 2nd boss until its nerf. A HUGE factor that could jade perception of the fight. Calling it "not hard" seems a bit farfetched as I remember watching you stream and do multiple attempts and not getting the boss to half health or below (albeit you were tanking). You also say "if players move properly and are organized it makes the boss incredibly easy and just another stack and burn fight with a tiny bit of movement." That's a big "if" and very hard to do. That's a mechanic in it of itself for that fight. Get all 12 players on the same page for a 8+ minute fight, while making sure they are all doing their jobs flawlessly, while not running into each other and causing an almost guaranteed wipe. That's almost like saying "If noone dies, group that kills the khajit summoners, and everyone moves to the light pad while killing the mini boss that spawns, the final boss is easy mode. Buff it Zennimax." You see what I mean?

Likewise, @Alcast, I watched every stream of yours, and you did always say "The boss will be easy once we get our characters, it should be buffed." however, it's impossible to know how well you would have done since the boss was sadly nerfed as soon as you got your characters. I believe you would have beaten it during it's pre - nerf state, but not as easily as you think. Even your first time beating the boss was pretty shaky, as you guys wiped previously, as well as when you completed it you had so many adds up it was such a cluster. Yes, the boss as it is now is definitely too easy, no argument there, but before the nerf it was difficult. The final boss is hard enough to separate the good from the great, and let's not even begin to think about Hard Mode.


The final boss... Spectacular and needs to say exactly as is.

Again, @Alcast and @asneakybanana I mean no disrespect to either of you, as you are both some of my favorite ESO players/theorycrafters/streamers, but it seems to me like this nerf clouded your vision, or there's some elitism going on. I'll be the first to admit that I'm elitist at times, but this is going above and beyond in my eyes. If the second boss gets buffed (over its pre-nerfed state), 99% of groups will be stuck farming boss 1 for months. And no, I'm not saying this for me, frankly I want a challenge and if the second boss got buffed I wouldn't QQ about it, I'd simply dedicate more time to strive for excellence, but a LOT of people would be extremely upset and perhaps even quit, because as of now there is no legitimate reason for a buff to even be considered. I'm thinking about the dedicated raiders that aren't as good, aren't as Champion Point stacked, aren't as fortunate with yellow gear, healers aren't blessed with SPC, etc... Again, even if people pass the 2nd boss, it means they had an EXCELLENT group together. Casuals will not be clearing that boss pre-nerf state, I think we can all agree on that, so that means there will still be competition, but beating the second boss means nothing since you still have to face the nightmare at the end. If the final boss wasn't so hard, then by all means a buff would be good, but since the final boss is living up to how a final boss should be, the second boss shouldn't replicate that difficulty.

Take Mantikora and the Serpant Normal Mode for example. Mantikora is a harder fight in many people's eyes than normal mode Serpant. That shouldn't be the case, or even debateable, that is just poor raid design. First boss should not be the deciding factor in completing a raid. Raid bosses should progressively get harder, which is exactly what MoL is about. First Boss<Second Boss<Third Boss.

Now, my rant/argument/opinion is over, I look forward to this amazing trial as well as going into debt by the soul gem sink known as Veteran Maw of Lorkaj

@Vezuls I do understand what you mean man. I mean I guess difficulty is fine pre-nerf.

The main issue what most people miss is that people skip AA/HRC/SO and go into the most difficult content and expect to pass easy mode. They just do not have the same learning curve....which is not entirely their fault as SO/AA/HRC is outdated ><

Yes it is difficult. But even we only wipe because our people are too *** to not listen to commands or start doing strange stuff once a lot things happen.

Maybe what Im about to say doesnt belong here but gonna write it anyway.
What I find a bit funny about eso, is that they reward the very very few percentage of hardcore and good players, and the new players. Nothing in between. And tbh, there are few hardcore good players in ESO compared to other games. ESO have a more grown up comunity with higher average players age too. So why are you listening to the 20 players who can complete the hardest content and reward them, but dont listening to the 100.000 others who struggle too much and dont get to finish?

I have been in a lot of PVE guilds and pretty much left everyone because its hard to find 12 people who actually cooperate well together, and the guild community gets toxic if we cant do a trial well enough. Not everyone are like this, but believe me, there are too many of them.

My point is, I really hope that the normal version of this trial gives the same loot as the veteran one, only lederboard difference, so maybe your eso+ members actually can enjoy the sets you have created.

Im not scared of hard content, and I like a challenge. Only thing that stopped me from completing everything in ESO today is my colorblind (poison in sanctum and stage 7 maelstrom), getting 12 good enough players to do sanctum hardmode, and the maelstrom non save function due to lack of time in life and getting tired after hours of consentration.
Dont know if I can blame my colorblind for dying in poison all the time, but its the only thing I struggle with because I never see it proparly. Sry for off topic.

@EgoRush I definitely agree that before people start calling for buffs/nerfs, the boss needs to be on Live and exposed to a larger audience.

However, as a console player I had to laugh when you said minimal-to-no lag on Live. I haven't done an SO HM run in weeks where I had animations (could see purple bubbles, my LA's, etc.). I look forward to many, many insta-deaths on boss #2 because no one's color shows on their screen.

Will be trying to get my pug guild through normalmode tonight at 8. Will try to stream

twitch.tv/woeler

Alcast wrote: »

@Vezuls I do understand what you mean man. I mean I guess difficulty is fine pre-nerf.

The main issue what most people miss is that people skip AA/HRC/SO and go into the most difficult content and expect to pass easy mode. They just do not have the same learning curve....which is not entirely their fault as SO/AA/HRC is outdated ><

Yes it is difficult. But even we only wipe because our people are too *** to not listen to commands or start doing strange stuff once a lot things happen.

If people skip those trials and go into VmoL they will get squashed. Even beating those 3 does not guarantee to down even the first boss. VmoL seems so hard that the players must be capable of speed running/nuking all the bosses from the previous trials, and there still seems to be a pretty steep learning curve, as on boss 2, all it takes is 1 miscommunication, misunderstanding to wipe the whole group.