Dark Flare needs adjustments

Dread_Guy · February 2016

I think people are missing what the OP is trying to convey. I think OP is saying the damage increase is minimal because of the how wonky DF is. Trading the damage for more ease of use would go further than just a straight damage boost.

Jura23 · February 2016

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

I think people are missing what the OP is trying to convey. I think OP is saying the damage increase is minimal because of the how wonky DF is. Trading the damage for more ease of use would go further than just a straight damage boost.

I dont think we really need to go further with DF though. That skill has some uses as it is now. We should focus on skills that have no use and Templar has a lot of those.

Mojmir · February 2016

Its has a long casting time,leave template alone

Joy_Division · February 2016

I understand what the OP is proposing and I do agree with it to an extent. I'm just leery because when it comes to adjustment/balance, ZoS does not have a good track record of the subtle "take a little off here" and "add a bit there" sort.

Especially when it comes to templars! .

nagarjunna · February 2016

Don't worry, it'll be nerfed thoroughly before it goes live!

Takes-No-Prisoner · February 2016

OP, you can combo into Dark Flare using set ups. Still worth having it on your bar for PvP despite the cast time.

Try this OP, this combo is my favorite. Borrow someone to smack around with, use Dark Flare raw and then use Radiant Destruction. It can 2-shot most glass canons in PvP. Curious to see how that combo works on PTS.

Wreuntzylla · February 2016

On live, you can 40k dark flare in PvE. While I agree that it has somewhat limited uses in 1v1, and in PvP resists are fairly high at the 501 cap, it has to be demoralizing in massed battles where attention is split. I don't think any skill is as suited to zergsurfing.

Essiaga · February 2016

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Considering the epic rivers of tears this ability will cause if it goes live like this ( 2.3.2 ), I believe it deserves a separate thread.

Let's not sugarcoat it: It does too much damage. Dark Flare is quite possibly the hardest hitting ability in the game right now, or very close anyway. I was certain ZOS would nerf it before TG goes live, but atm it doesn't look like it. There will be tons of whine threads literally hours after the servers come up about this skill and we all know what will happen then...Jesus Beam says hi. It is in the interest of Templar players themselves to direct some attention to this issue and hopefully prevent an over nerf ( hopes of success are slim, but you gotta try ).

Unfortunately the handling of Dark Flare is the perfect example of ZOS' modus operandi when it comes to the Templar class. They ignore the enormous amount of often insightful feedback, identify some problem that doesn't exist and ignore the problems that do exist, come up with a half-baked solution to said non-existing problem and then have to spend even more work to clean up the mess their "solution" to a non-existing problem caused, while the actual real problems persist.

Why do people not use Dark Flare ?

The reason is not and never was the damage !

It has always hit hard. Really hard. And now it is over the top.

The reason people don't use it is and has always been the cast and travel time !

Mobility is a crucial element of the combat system in ESO. The new challenging PvE content, solo, group and raid, has been designed specifically around mobility. Standing still and casting your Dark Flare, Sweeps and Healing Ritual inside the cookie-sized Rune Focus just doesn't work. At all. This is even more true in PvP.

So let's try this weird thing with identifying the actual issue again, shall we.

What's not the problem ?

Damage. It's fine on live already.

What is the issue ?

Usability when the Templar is under any pressure by enemies. ( And currently on PTS too much damage by Dark Flare in the few situations the Templar isn't. )

What is to be done ?

Damage buff needs to be reverted. In the long run it will only cause harm to the Templar class itself. As for the usability, we could start with fixing the 1.7 seconds on the first cast...You know, an actual real existing issue with the skill. In addition it would need a mechanic so Templars can use it when under attack. Instant proc, some form of uninteruptability, etc. Maybe the two well known 40+ pages threads might contain some ideas ?

I know a lot of people around the community who don't play templar point to this skill on PTS and say TEMPLAR GOT A HUGE BUFF ... but the reality is we've had a buff to Dark Flare last time ZOS 'Balanced' the game and it was nerfed shortly there after. So what looks like a buff will end up being nothing and then look what the Templar got ... We're worse at "Standing Our Ground" ever single update.

Blinding Flashes ... gone.
Sun Shield ... Battle Spirit nerfd to death.
Eclipse ... nerfed hard ... no reworked for what's basically another nerf. Inferior Defensive Stance clone that effects 1 target and can be CC broken and purged, and can't be applied on CC immune people.

If Reflective Scales were so weak ... Am I right?

Cleansing Ritual was pretty much that last defensive ability we had. We're down to BOL and that's been under attack constantly. I say nerf it to the ground ... but for Xmas sake end the trend of nerfing suitability and replacing it with a buff to Dark Flare that will require a nerf leaving us with NOTHING.

Toppling Charge ... broke and now weaker (dodge this or reflect). Hows Ambush? Still spamming?
Puncturing Strikes ... nerf to make up for mending buff, requiring mending buff to not be a nerf. L-O-G-I-K

For less ranting and more discussion on the matter stop by the templar thread that's approaching 50 pages.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245184/official-feedback-thread-for-templars/p1

We all expect it. Go on and nerf it.

Wreuntzylla · February 2016

nagarjunna wrote: »

Don't worry, it'll be nerfed thoroughly before it goes live!

No, it will go live and 2-4 weeks later they will change it, just after you have learned to properly use and enjoy it, while every other class enjoys their OP skills until the next "balancing patch."

Radiant destruction, blazing spear, etc., etc.

Essiaga · February 2016

danno8 wrote: »

12% extra damage and now it is OP?

Seriously in U9 their will be so many DK's with wings up reflecting your empowered DF back at you with an additional 20% damage on top of that.

I say leave the skill until people complain. No point in pre-nerfing the super-nerf class. Enjoy it while it lasts, if you don't one-shot yourself first.

lol ... yep.

Projectiles can only be reflected 1 time now ... so anyone using a reflect will send this back at the Templar (defensive stance won't help) and on a magicka build I'm not dodge rolling my own skills.

DK got some HUGE buffs this update, and I'm not even talking about the in class stuff.

BalticBlues · February 2016

The funny thing is, not even Templars were asking for that damage buff. What Templars were asking for was that Flares should receive the same treatment as Cyrstal Fragments, so that they had a chance to be instant, doing more damage and costing less magicka. This would cause no outcry. However, as usual, the actual wishes of the Templar players are completely ignored.

nagarjunna · February 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

nagarjunna wrote: »

Don't worry, it'll be nerfed thoroughly before it goes live!

No, it will go live and 2-4 weeks later they will change it, just after you have learned to properly use and enjoy it, while every other class enjoys their OP skills until the next "balancing patch."

Radiant destruction, blazing spear, etc., etc.

Haha! So true!

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2016

its not going to be a problem at all! its bashable so as soon as any stamina build closes with you its not even castable because of bash, then they wb the poor magica dps templar to death becuase they have no defence or mobility. and if they build more like the tank healers then it wont be the most hard hitting ability.
nothing to see here

Wreuntzylla · February 2016

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

its not going to be a problem at all! its bashable so as soon as any stamina build closes with you its not even castable because of bash, then they wb the poor magica dps templar to death becuase they have no defence or mobility. and if they build more like the tank healers then it wont be the most hard hitting ability.
nothing to see here

ZoS, in part, balances PvP with an eye towards casual and PvE players. On live, it's possible to crit a mob with a 40k dark flare and once in a blue moon for about 20k in PvP. If the new dark flare results in regularly one-shotting those types of players, which people will totally zerg surf with, look for a fast change, probably even faster than the radiant destruction change. Their change will most likely break dark flare and it will either be fixed or called a feature 6 months later.

Mind you, if they stay with no CP only PvP servers, all damage will be reduced so much that the increase will be just noise.

acw37162 · February 2016

I had two expectations when I first saw the patch notes;

People would have whole lot more to say then they do about the animation timing pass and its effect on how combat feels.

And DarK Flare would not make it off test sever with a 13% damage buff.

I was wrong on both counts and no one should ever listen to me, ever.

Justice31st · February 2016

We just had another nerf a couple days ago to toppling charge, and now you want another Templar nerf already. LMAO

Ampnode · February 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

We just had another nerf a couple days ago to toppling charge, and now you want another Templar nerf already. LMAO

It's a skill that didn't need to be buffed in the first place. If I can get hit with a 9.1K Dark Flare with full heavy on, it doesn't need a damage boost whatsoever. Flare needs more convenience rather than just a buff in damage.

cazlonb16_ESO · February 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

The funny thing is, not even Templars were asking for that damage buff. What Templars were asking for was that Flares should receive the same treatment as Cyrstal Fragments, so that they had a chance to be instant, doing more damage and costing less magicka. This would cause no outcry. However, as usual, the actual wishes of the Templar players are completely ignored.

Well, yes, that is what I tried to spell out in a little more detail in my original post. Unfortunately a lot of commenters were unwilling to read past the first two sentences it would appear.

Kupoking · February 2016

it can be dodged, reflected, flappy winged, LOSed, interrupted...

plenty of counters.

Takes-No-Prisoner · February 2016

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

it can be dodged, reflected, flappy winged, LOSed, interrupted...

plenty of counters.

I agree with these counters. Plenty of ways to cast it without getting countered.

tinythinker · February 2016

This is the one thing Templars have been asking for for over a year so let them have it.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

We just had another nerf a couple days ago to toppling charge, and now you want another Templar nerf already. LMAO

It's a skill that didn't need to be buffed in the first place. If I can get hit with a 9.1K Dark Flare with full heavy on, it doesn't need a damage boost whatsoever. Flare needs more convenience rather than just a buff in damage.

aside from the fact that there is stamina builds hitting for 9k easy with instant abilities, ya so not fair to make a 1 second cast time do more damage than that. LOL give me a break

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2016

also its so slow you cant land it on anyone who knows they are fighting you. thats a pritty damn huge drawback