Two bugs with Burning Light and Puncturing Sweeps self-healing!
Zinaroth
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Self-healing not proccing on shielded targets:
Puncturing Sweep self-healing does not proc on shielded targets!
It's currently like this on Live aswell, and it needs to be fixed before this PTS patch hits Live.
This is currently *** over Templar royally in PvP.
In comparison the Sorcerer's Blood Magic passive heals him for 8% off maximum health on hit with Dark Magic ability even if target is shielded, while Nightblades are having the same issue with self-healing through use of Funnel Health / Swallow Soul on shielded targets.
Self-healing scaling off Burning Light proc:
I was testing some different CP passives setup to see how it would benefit my Puncturing Sweeps morph of Puncturing Strikes when I stumbled across a strange bug with the self-healing from this ability.
It is supposed to heal you for 35% of the damage done per Sweep, but everytime a Burning Light would proc on a Sweep the healing would instead be based off the Burning Light proc.
As we can see in the picture my self-heals when based off Puncturing Sweep is 1129 on a normal hit and 1807 on a crit.
However when a Puncturing Sweep procs Burning Light the healing is based off of that instead and heals for 1498 on a normal hit and 2397 on a crit.
Why is this an issue?
All of a sudden your self healing is based even more off crit than it already was. Sure if you get a Burning Light crit then happy days, but if you don't just pray that your Puncturing Sweep wasn't a crit either, otherwise your self-healing is reduced.
This test was performed using the Recount addon, which seems to perform reliably on the PTS.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak
Thank you.
Edited by Zinaroth on February 17, 2016 1:30PM Puncturing Sweep self-healing does not proc on shielded targets!
It's currently like this on Live aswell, and it needs to be fixed before this PTS patch hits Live.
This is currently *** over Templar royally in PvP.
In comparison the Sorcerer's Blood Magic passive heals him for 8% off maximum health on hit with Dark Magic ability even if target is shielded, while Nightblades are having the same issue with self-healing through use of Funnel Health / Swallow Soul on shielded targets.
Self-healing scaling off Burning Light proc:
I was testing some different CP passives setup to see how it would benefit my Puncturing Sweeps morph of Puncturing Strikes when I stumbled across a strange bug with the self-healing from this ability.
It is supposed to heal you for 35% of the damage done per Sweep, but everytime a Burning Light would proc on a Sweep the healing would instead be based off the Burning Light proc.
As we can see in the picture my self-heals when based off Puncturing Sweep is 1129 on a normal hit and 1807 on a crit.
However when a Puncturing Sweep procs Burning Light the healing is based off of that instead and heals for 1498 on a normal hit and 2397 on a crit.
Why is this an issue?
All of a sudden your self healing is based even more off crit than it already was. Sure if you get a Burning Light crit then happy days, but if you don't just pray that your Puncturing Sweep wasn't a crit either, otherwise your self-healing is reduced.
This test was performed using the Recount addon, which seems to perform reliably on the PTS.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak
Thank you.
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AriBoh✭✭✭✭✭Pretty sure given current evidence this is @Wrobel intention. And even if it isn't he couldn't give enough of a *** to fix it.khele23eb17
Agreed. Whoever came up with the design should be shot in the foot and only admitted to hospital when he manages to find 3 other people willing to maim themselves the same way in order to accompany him.
ZOS_AmeliaR admin
Ultimately, any method of entering an enemy keep without breaking down the door is considered an exploit. Thanks for checking!
tinythinker
"I used to be a healer once, but then I took a Wrobel to the knee"10 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭Burning Light proccs on shields, Zinaroth and i did further testing and we found out it works.
We are sorry for the confusion, we struggle alot with the addons.
But the healing does not.
Sorcs blood magic does heal on shields.Edited by Mumyo on February 17, 2016 1:25PM5 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Fact that sorc's Surge didn't work on shields before, but than was "fixed" and now heal through shields. Burning Embers now can be easily recasted to gain buffed 75% heal, but sweeps, radiant glory, siphon, strife not healing through damage shield.
On other way - when if it will be fixed, biting jabs stamina morph will became much weaker coz it granting crit chance that not working on sheilds too.6 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭This just means that shields need to be fixed so that heals and anything that procs off damage to an enemy's health needs to apply to shields themselves, along with an enemy's health.
I think this also applies to executes not doing 300% damage on shielded enemies who are below 25% health. Can anyone confirm this? I'm on console so I can't see any numbers, but it certainly seems like executes do not scale on shields.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP2 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »This just means that shields need to be fixed so that heals and anything that procs off damage to an enemy's health needs to apply to shields themselves, along with an enemy's health.
I think this also applies to executes not doing 300% damage on shielded enemies who are below 25% health. Can anyone confirm this? I'm on console so I can't see any numbers, but it certainly seems like executes do not scale on shields.
Me and @Mumyo can confirm that item sets with on hit effects DO proc on shielded targets, however we did not test executes on shielded targets below 25%.2 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »This just means that shields need to be fixed so that heals and anything that procs off damage to an enemy's health needs to apply to shields themselves, along with an enemy's health.
I think this also applies to executes not doing 300% damage on shielded enemies who are below 25% health. Can anyone confirm this? I'm on console so I can't see any numbers, but it certainly seems like executes do not scale on shields.
Me and @Mumyo can confirm that item sets with on hit effects DO proc on shielded targets, however we did not test executes on shielded targets below 25%.
Interesting. It needs to be consistent though. Anything that procs off hitting someone regardless of the effects need to apply to shields to make it fair. This includes executes.
Templars need the spear heals to go toe to toe with sorcs. Right now they lose 9 times out of 10 because sorcs get to use all their advantages but templars can't. Same for magicka nb. Strife spam vs crystal frag and crushing shock with shields up, sorc wins almost every time. Mageblades need to fear or some other cc to get the sorc to stop moving so they can get their shields down, but without the heals, it's a very hard fight.
When a sorc is at execute range and he applies his shields before my execute landes, this kills me. If the execute did 300% damage to the shields, it would be balanced, but right now, it's not. Based on how little my executes damage the shields, it seems that executes do not scale on shielded enemies.Edited by mr_wazzabi on February 17, 2016 4:55PMBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP4 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrobel, "Combat team we have a code red situation, I repeat a code red situation. A Templar ability has a bug where you may indirectly get a slightly bigger heal then intnended. Stop everything you are doing and devote all resources to finding this bug and stomping it out existence. As of this moment all leave is cancelled.
Alright, listen up, people. Our Templar bug has been in the PTS for at least one patch. Average foot speed over uneven ground barring injuries for Templar, is well slower then turtle with two broken feet. That gives us a radius of six meters. What I want from each and every one of you is a hard-target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in that area. Checkpoints go up at fifteen miles. Your fugitive's name is Burning lIght healing on Puncturing sweeps. Go get him.11 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »This just means that shields need to be fixed so that heals and anything that procs off damage to an enemy's health needs to apply to shields themselves, along with an enemy's health.
I think this also applies to executes not doing 300% damage on shielded enemies who are below 25% health. Can anyone confirm this? I'm on console so I can't see any numbers, but it certainly seems like executes do not scale on shields.
Me and @Mumyo can confirm that item sets with on hit effects DO proc on shielded targets, however we did not test executes on shielded targets below 25%.
Interesting. It needs to be consistent though. Anything that procs off hitting someone regardless of the effects need to apply to shields to make it fair. This includes executes.
Templars need the spear heals to go toe to toe with sorcs. Right now they lose 9 times out of 10 because sorcs get to use all their advantages but templars can't. Same for magicka nb. Strife spam vs crystal frag and crushing shock with shields up, sorc wins almost every time. Mageblades need to fear or some other cc to get the sorc to stop moving so they can get their shields down, but without the heals, it's a very hard fight.
When a sorc is at execute range and he applies his shields before my execute landes, this kills me. If the execute did 300% damage to the shields, it would be balanced, but right now, it's not. Based on how little my executes damage the shields, it seems that executes do not scale on shielded enemies.
Like I said we haven't tested it on the PTS, but if that is how it works right now then that is indeed an issue aswell!
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Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭player_klaus wrote: »what about funnel health?
Doesn't heal off shields either as I already stated in my post.0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is not a bug. This was an originally intended mechanic back when shielding was much less effective than now. Search the forum and you will find the old threads.
I would love confirmation that surge works on shields. How hypocritical would that be?0 -
blabafat✭✭✭✭✭
✭If something says that it procs on DAMAGE, it will not proc on shields because when you are attacking a shield, you are not doing "damage."
If it says it procs on HIT, then it will proc on shields.
Shields are different than health points. Shields do not calculate physical/spell resistance, cannot be crit on, and are not considered to be taking "damage" when taking damage.
The nb siphon ability (swallow soul) heals based on the damage done, just like puncturing sweeps.Fire Cloak - VR12 DK - Nord - EP
Ámeer - VR15 Templar - Imperial - AD
The Mágician - VR16 Templar - Imperial DC
Magíc - VR16 DK - Dark Elf - DC
Àmeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - DC
ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - AD
Æ ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - EP
Ameer Flow - Level 34 Nightblade - High Elf - EP
Youtube:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCFNmXCgmTVo-T-p1BIVLxbQ1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »This is not a bug. This was an originally intended mechanic back when shielding was much less effective than now. Search the forum and you will find the old threads.
I would love confirmation that surge works on shields. How hypocritical would that be?
Surge can heal off shields.If something says that it procs on DAMAGE, it will not proc on shields because when you are attacking a shield, you are not doing "damage."
If it says it procs on HIT, then it will proc on shields.
Shields are different than health points. Shields do not calculate physical/spell resistance, cannot be crit on, and are not considered to be taking "damage" when taking damage.
The nb siphon ability (swallow soul) heals based on the damage done, just like puncturing sweeps.
Yes that seems to be the way it works now but nowhere is it stated that they shouldn't heal off shields, they just don't. Sounds more like poor design than intended mechanic. Since they just fixed item sets proccing on shield then self-healing off abilities should follow next.4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As we can see in the picture my self-heals when based off Puncturing Sweep is 1129 on a normal hit and 1807 on a crit.
However when a Puncturing Sweep procs Burning Light the healing is based off of that instead and heals for 1498 on a normal hit and 2397 on a crit.
Why is this an issue?
All of a sudden your self healing is based even more off crit than it already was. Sure if you get a Burning Light crit then happy days, but if you don't just pray that your Puncturing Sweep wasn't a crit either, otherwise your self-healing is reduced.
I am not sure this is an issue, and in fact i think what you are asking for is a nerf to yourself.
There are four possible scenarios(each of them equally likely to happen when burning light procs):
1, sweep does not crit, burning light does not crit
2, sweep does not crit, burning light does crit
3, sweep does crit, burning light does crit
4, sweep does crit, burning light does not crit.
Of those four scenarios, only the 4th results in getting less healing. In the other three, you are getting more healing than you would if burning light didn't affect the heal done.Edited by Sharee on February 19, 2016 10:58AM0 -
Itoq✭✭✭✭Thanks but,
Future patch note:
In a continuing effort to homogenize Templar skills and skill effects that players may useful we have reduced the puncturing sweeps proc and crit chance to zero. -Z0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
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There are four possible scenarios(each of them equally likely to happen when burning light procs):
They are not equally likely to happen, that depends on your crit chance.
As I already said:
For high crit chance builds (so that's primarily PvE) this is indeed extra healing.
For low crit chance build (so that's primarily PvP) this is another roll with the dice.Edited by Zinaroth on February 19, 2016 8:48AM0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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There are four possible scenarios(each of them equally likely to happen when burning light procs):
They are not equally likely to happen, that depends on your crit chance.
As I already said:
For high crit chance builds (so that's primarily PvE) this is indeed extra healing.
For low crit chance build (so that's primarily PvP) this is another roll with the dice.
You are right that all four cases are not equally likely to happen, but the two important ones are.
Consider this:
Case 1: Burning light crits, but sweep does not crit. (better than standard healing)
Case 2: Burning light does not crit, but sweep does. (worse than standard healing)
These two cases always have the same chance of happening, regardless of what your crit chance is. One of them benefits you, the other does not.
In addition to that, there are other two cases (both crit, neither crits) but those both benefit you.
This means that the chance of getting a good result is always at least equal to getting a bad result(case 1 and 2 having same chance), and possibly higher(case 3 and 4 happening). So by removing this and making heals be only based on sweep will be a nerf to your overall healing.
Let's look at a low crit chance build (10% spell crit chance)
Chance that BL crits AND SW crits: 0.1*0.1 = 0.01 = 1%
Chance that neither BL nor SW crit: 0.9*0.9 = 0.81 = 81%
Chance that BL crits but SW doesn't: 0.1*0.9 = 0.09 = 9%
Chance that BL does not crit but SW does: 0.9*0.1 = 0.09 = 9%
The only case where you are getting less than standard sweep healing is case 4, which means you have 91% chance of getting better healing than you would without the 'bug'.Edited by Sharee on February 19, 2016 10:55AM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Burning Light proccs on shields, Zinaroth and i did further testing and we found out it works.
We are sorry for the confusion, we struggle alot with the addons.
But the healing does not.
Sorcs blood magic does heal on shields.
It should absolutely heal on shields hit.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Many 'on-hit' procs only count when the target's health bar gets damaged, for example siphon from the restoration line. And yes, it should be changed.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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Many 'on-hit' procs only count when the target's health bar gets damaged, for example siphon from the restoration line. And yes, it should be changed.
Siphon, Ele drain and jabs are the only ones coming to mind. What else am i missing?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Many 'on-hit' procs only count when the target's health bar gets damaged, for example siphon from the restoration line. And yes, it should be changed.
Siphon, Ele drain and jabs are the only ones coming to mind. What else am i missing?
Hmm, blood craze? Altho i'm not sure, haven't used in in a while.0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
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There are four possible scenarios(each of them equally likely to happen when burning light procs):
They are not equally likely to happen, that depends on your crit chance.
As I already said:
For high crit chance builds (so that's primarily PvE) this is indeed extra healing.
For low crit chance build (so that's primarily PvP) this is another roll with the dice.
You are right that all four cases are not equally likely to happen, but the two important ones are.
Consider this:
Case 1: Burning light crits, but sweep does not crit. (better than standard healing)
Case 2: Burning light does not crit, but sweep does. (worse than standard healing)
These two cases always have the same chance of happening, regardless of what your crit chance is. One of them benefits you, the other does not.
In addition to that, there are other two cases (both crit, neither crits) but those both benefit you.
This means that the chance of getting a good result is always at least equal to getting a bad result(case 1 and 2 having same chance), and possibly higher(case 3 and 4 happening). So by removing this and making heals be only based on sweep will be a nerf to your overall healing.
Let's look at a low crit chance build (10% spell crit chance)
Chance that BL crits AND SW crits: 0.1*0.1 = 0.01 = 1%
Chance that neither BL nor SW crit: 0.9*0.9 = 0.81 = 81%
Chance that BL crits but SW doesn't: 0.1*0.9 = 0.09 = 9%
Chance that BL does not crit but SW does: 0.9*0.1 = 0.09 = 9%
The only case where you are getting less than standard sweep healing is case 4, which means you have 91% chance of getting better healing than you would without the 'bug'.
You are correct. I considered this when posting aswell. But I would be a hypocrite if I only posted bugs with my class crippled us and kept silent about the ones that actually make us unintentionally stronger.
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Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭
Many 'on-hit' procs only count when the target's health bar gets damaged, for example siphon from the restoration line. And yes, it should be changed.
Siphon, Ele drain and jabs are the only ones coming to mind. What else am i missing?
I dont know how swallow soul is intended to work but it doesnt work on shields either. We tested it but i dont know what the tooltip says (on hit, on damage or use.. or whatsoever). Just saying, so we dont forget about that too.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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Many 'on-hit' procs only count when the target's health bar gets damaged, for example siphon from the restoration line. And yes, it should be changed.
Siphon, Ele drain and jabs are the only ones coming to mind. What else am i missing?
I dont know how swallow soul is intended to work but it doesnt work on shields either. We tested it but i dont know what the tooltip says (on hit, on damage or use.. or whatsoever). Just saying, so we dont forget about that too.
wow. never noticed that and im 800k ap on my nb solo on a funnel build. guess sorcs slack to stack. Edited by Derra on February 19, 2016 12:42PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭
Many 'on-hit' procs only count when the target's health bar gets damaged, for example siphon from the restoration line. And yes, it should be changed.
Siphon, Ele drain and jabs are the only ones coming to mind. What else am i missing?
I dont know how swallow soul is intended to work but it doesnt work on shields either. We tested it but i dont know what the tooltip says (on hit, on damage or use.. or whatsoever). Just saying, so we dont forget about that too.
wow. never noticed that and im 800k ap on my nb solo on a funnel build. guess sorcs slack to stack.
so what does the tooltip say? is it on hit or use? I dont know if its to be changed with the patch.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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Many 'on-hit' procs only count when the target's health bar gets damaged, for example siphon from the restoration line. And yes, it should be changed.
Siphon, Ele drain and jabs are the only ones coming to mind. What else am i missing?
I dont know how swallow soul is intended to work but it doesnt work on shields either. We tested it but i dont know what the tooltip says (on hit, on damage or use.. or whatsoever). Just saying, so we dont forget about that too.
wow. never noticed that and im 800k ap on my nb solo on a funnel build. guess sorcs slack to stack.
so what does the tooltip say? is it on hit or use? I dont know if its to be changed with the patch.
Healing for X% of the dmg inflicted on live. On pts i´d have to check<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
staracino_ESO✭✭✭✭
You are correct. I considered this when posting aswell. But I would be a hypocrite if I only posted bugs with my class crippled us and kept silent about the ones that actually make us unintentionally stronger.
Also, it is important to fix this because they may then realize that Puncturing Sweeps needs to have its healing brought back up to 40%, or raised even higher.
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