Stop Catering to Instant Gratification Gamers

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

It's not just ZOS that are this. At least they are better than the likes of Treyarch. Who offer blackops3 with one map for zombies (indefinately) unless you pre pay for dlc that isn't even out yet to gain early access and then make you wait for the actual content you paid for. Same for star wars battlefront. What 4 maps ffs!!! But oh wait buy the deluxe edition for £119 and you'll get all the better stuff straight away? And early access and maps as they come out. So you end up getting guilt tripped by your mates who have more content than you so you buy it so you can all play more varied content. ZOS has it pretty good tbh. I don't see any of this lot offering out a pts so well made up and free. Some games now are worsen than buying a new car. You get bare bones for the list price.

Jar_Ek · February 2016

Catering to Hardcore only? Wildstar tried that and it didn't work out so well for them. Zos has to balance the needs of new players and old players to stay in business. That means not catering to the hard-core but throwing them a bone every now and then. And not catering to the instant gratification crowd but making it more viable for them to be competitive and enjoy the game (and stay, play and spend for longer).

Inarre · February 2016

Is this seriously a thread about "im more hard-core, listen to me zos!"

*exits forums to never return*

DatRascal · February 2016

Confession: This post was bit of a troll post. I am not really that *** or arrogant of a gamer nor a person.

My original post: ZOS while I understand you need content & playability for the short term or casual player (side note: I am a proud casual). It would be greatly appreciated if moving forward you continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the instant gratification player.

I was pretty sure the above short post would get nobody’s attention. So I went over the top. However, the dialogue the post generated was remarkable. I truly hope ZOS takes the time to read many of the posts with notable suggestions and insights into the direction the game should take.

Thank you all for contributing to this post and offering in a positive interactive way.

Turelus · February 2016

DatRascal wrote: »

Confession: This post was bit of a troll post. I am not really that *** or arrogant of a gamer nor a person.

My original post: ZOS while I understand you need content & playability for the short term or casual player (side note: I am a proud casual). It would be greatly appreciated if moving forward you continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the instant gratification player.

I was pretty sure the above short post would get nobody’s attention. So I went over the top. However, the dialogue the post generated was remarkable. I truly hope ZOS takes the time to read many of the posts with notable suggestions and insights into the direction the game should take.

Thank you all for contributing to this post and offering in a positive interactive way.

I... Ah... You... *just gives you and awesome and walks away confused*

DatRascal · February 2016

Turelus wrote: »

DatRascal wrote: »

Confession: This post was bit of a troll post. I am not really that *** or arrogant of a gamer nor a person.

My original post: ZOS while I understand you need content & playability for the short term or casual player (side note: I am a proud casual). It would be greatly appreciated if moving forward you continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the instant gratification player.

I was pretty sure the above short post would get nobody’s attention. So I went over the top. However, the dialogue the post generated was remarkable. I truly hope ZOS takes the time to read many of the posts with notable suggestions and insights into the direction the game should take.

Thank you all for contributing to this post and offering in a positive interactive way.

I... Ah... You... *just gives you and awesome and walks away confused*

The message is still the same...I just made my original post in a way that was a bit over the top so it would get some play time. When you have been a role player / pve gamer longer than a PvPer you understand what it takes to get a message heard in forums.

Thelon · February 2016

DatRascal wrote: »

Confession: This post was bit of a troll post.

BabeestorGor · February 2016

DatRascal wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

DatRascal wrote: »

Confession: This post was bit of a troll post. I am not really that *** or arrogant of a gamer nor a person.

My original post: ZOS while I understand you need content & playability for the short term or casual player (side note: I am a proud casual). It would be greatly appreciated if moving forward you continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the instant gratification player.

I was pretty sure the above short post would get nobody’s attention. So I went over the top. However, the dialogue the post generated was remarkable. I truly hope ZOS takes the time to read many of the posts with notable suggestions and insights into the direction the game should take.

Thank you all for contributing to this post and offering in a positive interactive way.

I... Ah... You... *just gives you and awesome and walks away confused*

The message is still the same...I just made my original post in a way that was a bit over the top so it would get some play time. When you have been a role player / pve gamer longer than a PvPer you understand what it takes to get a message heard in forums.

But you diluted the message of your post because it came across as an attack on "casual" (as in put in less than 8 hours a day) gamers rather than an attack on people who want instant gratification. The 2 aren't the same.

DatRascal · February 2016

BabeestorGor wrote: »

DatRascal wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

DatRascal wrote: »

Confession: This post was bit of a troll post. I am not really that *** or arrogant of a gamer nor a person.

My original post: ZOS while I understand you need content & playability for the short term or casual player (side note: I am a proud casual). It would be greatly appreciated if moving forward you continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the instant gratification player.

I was pretty sure the above short post would get nobody’s attention. So I went over the top. However, the dialogue the post generated was remarkable. I truly hope ZOS takes the time to read many of the posts with notable suggestions and insights into the direction the game should take.

Thank you all for contributing to this post and offering in a positive interactive way.

I... Ah... You... *just gives you and awesome and walks away confused*

The message is still the same...I just made my original post in a way that was a bit over the top so it would get some play time. When you have been a role player / pve gamer longer than a PvPer you understand what it takes to get a message heard in forums.

But you diluted the message of your post because it came across as an attack on "casual" (as in put in less than 8 hours a day) gamers rather than an attack on people who want instant gratification. The 2 aren't the same.

Valid Point...I may have thrown the word “casual” out there in a way that distracted from my main message. It was a flaw in my presentation.

Alabyn · February 2016

Xellos77 wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

So don't cater to their largest population? Smart business move.

Wanted to respond, but I saw the words have already been spoken before me.

As a side note, "Hardcore" undoubtedly makes up the smallest percentage of the player base. As a business-woman, you should know what this means. Cater to your population.

You may be interested in EVE Online, however. I hear the whole game is one giant Hardcore player-base. No personal experience because I never played it, but I hear it's a very intense game socially-wise.

That was my experience in EVE. Whoa the learning curve! Not for casual gamers (and by that I do mean lighter time-investment, not desiring of easy content).

LadyNalcarya · February 2016

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Catering to Hardcore only? Wildstar tried that and it didn't work out so well for them. Zos has to balance the needs of new players and old players to stay in business. That means not catering to the hard-core but throwing them a bone every now and then. And not catering to the instant gratification crowd but making it more viable for them to be competitive and enjoy the game (and stay, play and spend for longer).

Yeah, but I dont understand the complaints when 99% of the game (Literally. Maybe even more) is extremely easy and doesnt require collecting gear sets etc.
Also, I'd like to point out that statements like "casuals are normal players not like some stupid no-lifers that live in their mom's basement" wont make the community more friendly. ^^
P.S. Btw, definition of "casual" is also a huge question. I dont play 24/7 and have real life, but I like challenging content. Imo, eso is way too casual, and if not for TES universe and interesting combat system, I wouldnt play it.

spoqster · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

'Earning it' is all well and good, but I do think MMO's place too heavy emphasis on gear in general. I think they should make player skill more prominent by making gear less important. That is just my opinion. I don't feel the need to be 10x better than someone just because I ran through and killed millions mobs in an excrutiatingly mindnumbing and repetitive dungeon crawl. I don't even think the people who do this sort of thing really want to be doing it, they do it simply because it gives them that edge - but it can't be fun. I think if they tear down the artificial walls on some of these things and allow the game to be more about player skill (on any mmo) I think the player base would be freed up to have more fun. Just my thoughts, and I realize there's a vocal crowd that love their quarterly gear grind.

I think this would also give the added benefit of uniting the goals of fun with the goals of progression and skill. It would mean people on the whole would feel more free to simply enjoy the game, and that would be good.

Well put, @dodgehopper_ESO! I am with you 100%.

Xjcon · February 2016

DatRascal wrote: »

Confession: This post was bit of a troll post. I am not really that *** or arrogant of a gamer nor a person.

My original post: ZOS while I understand you need content & playability for the short term or casual player (side note: I am a proud casual). It would be greatly appreciated if moving forward you continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the instant gratification player.

I was pretty sure the above short post would get nobody’s attention. So I went over the top. However, the dialogue the post generated was remarkable. I truly hope ZOS takes the time to read many of the posts with notable suggestions and insights into the direction the game should take.

Thank you all for contributing to this post and offering in a positive interactive way.

Troll post or back peddling due to the vast majority being against what you said?

Grunim · February 2016

@leepalmer95

I noticed from your sig that you are a PS4 player so you may not be aware that PC players have access to add-ons that show you someone's alliance war rank when you target them. So whenever I do a PUG dungeon I know if my party members have done much PvP and it gives me a pretty good idea if they are likely to use vigor or caltrops in a dungeon.

Xellos77 · February 2016

Annalyse wrote: »

I consider myself a casual player, in that I am not competitive at all (I don't PvP) and just play at a relaxed pace whenever I have spare time. That said, I am a gamer that will stick around for years if I like a game (spent 8 years with my last MMO) just making new alts and levelling them. I hate when things get made easier and easier because I end up running out of things to do. I'm already dreading the removal of vet ranks because if my alts just stop at 50 and are instantly at the gear level of my top vet character I will likely stop playing them. Which means I won't be sticking around at this game for all that long.

Things are easy enough as they are right now. I never grind and I have absolutely no problem levelling.

I was in the same boat, yet I've already taken a (potentially permanent) hiatus. I think it'll be interesting to see what changes are made with 2016 and I intend to continue following ESO even though I haven't touched the game in over a month.

I welcome changes and couldn't care less about the whining and crying. All MMOs have that. I am most interested in one thing that ESO lacks: true end game content. If this were perfected, I think the staying power would be much better. Like the quote above, I leveled several characters and found my highest level one was the least played.

In the end there's just not a whole lot to do at end game in ESO. You either play the RNG game (do some vet dungeons--and most people only want to do them for the dailies) or play more RNG game for mats/motifs/etc. Or, do MSA. That's about it. Yay. Wait, I almost forgot about PvP. Which is really lackluster.

Hopefully by Q4 of this year there will be significant amount of change that appeals to MMO players. Otherwise, I'll continue to stay with FFXIV and enjoy the wealth of content there. I really want to like ESO as the ES series is a personal favorite. But as far as MMO staying power is concerned, it's really behind.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

let's be honest here. most casuals have work aka money.
the hardcore players with no-life dont, so less money.

p.s. before the bitching begins yes there are hardcore players that have a job but the top end who grinded 2k CP before cap can't have a job and grind as mutch.
p.p.s. the "casual" tends not to be I NEED TO HAVE THIS GIVE IT TO ME NERF THIS NERF THAT.
it's the hardcoreplayer and the middleground i will call it for now who are the ones asking for this

Thelon · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

let's be honest here. most casuals have work aka money.
the hardcore players with no-life dont, so less money.

Brrrofski · February 2016

Thing is, there is a difference between challenging content and repeating the same thing over and over.

Some people love challenging content. Me included. But some of the stuff in this game is just repetitive and it's a huge grind. It's not challenging nor fun. There's a difference.

Yeh, it's an mmo, it will have a grind. But let me at least partially enjoy some of the grind. 90% of this game is repeating an action to get to where you want, just for a new grind to start.

I have 4 vr16s. Earning an ava skill, getting meteor, levelling skills, getting end game mats... It's not a challenge to do again. It's boring and repetitive. Again, there's a difference.

So you can call me an instant gratification gamer if you like. But no, I don't like doing the same boring, time consuming stuff on multiple toons. Anything to make that less of a pain is welcomed by me.

Xellos77 · February 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Thing is, there is a difference between challenging content and repeating the same thing over and over.

Some people love challenging content. Me included. But some of the stuff in this game is just repetitive and it's a huge grind. It's not challenging nor fun. There's a difference.

Yeh, it's an mmo, it will have a grind. But let me at least partially enjoy some of the grind. 90% of this game is repeating an action to get to where you want, just for a new grind to start.

I have 4 vr16s. Earning an ava skill, getting meteor, levelling skills, getting end game mats... It's not a challenge to do again. It's boring and repetitive. Again, there's a difference.

So you can call me an instant gratification gamer if you like. But no, I don't like doing the same boring, time consuming stuff on multiple toons. Anything to make that less of a pain is welcomed by me.

It's why I've absolutely fallen in love with the job system of FFXIV. No need for alts, unless you are bored with your race (and then you can buy a race change).

On the other hand, ESO has the combat aspect that is better than most MMOs I've played.

Additional grinds on multiple characters for desire of something new isn't my cup of tea, but it does add superficial longevity.

wskill · February 2016

I have to agree with the tone of this thread opener.

What ive seen alot lately is skills being changed into things that then are supposed to fit into some stam/mag meta. This is such a horrid approach limiting people's freedom and making the game into a set-in-stone blue or red type of choice instead of the wonderful custom playingfield we had. SO WHAT if a skill doesnt fit into your stam or mag character, not every damn skill has to.

Why does everything have to cater to optimal pvp oriented gameplay, it kills games, it literally does.

JKorr · February 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Sadly casuals aka pvers/mount-buyers are the ones that are important to Zos b€cau$€.

THANK YOU!!!!
Now I know what I am. I am a casual.

It s *SO* nice to know that. I mean, really.

I've been here since beta.

I've been subbed as long as I've been here.

I have a tiger senche mount that Zenimax *GAVE* me.

I actually have two accounts, 16 characters in the game.

I would have never guessed that simply because I avoid pvp I am a casual.

With comments like yours, I can't imagine why people get the feeling that pvp players are elitist snobs, or just plain jerks.

In case you miss the subtle hints, because you're a pvp-not-a-casual-player, the thanks was sarcasm.

ZOS_MollyH · February 2016

Hey all, we're closing this thread now. OP stated gratitude for the discussion that took place, and some great points were made. That said, it is now devolving too far off-topic and getting to be a flame and trollfest. Thanks for participating!