Stop Catering to Instant Gratification Gamers

DatRascal · February 2016

Gamer Rant:

ZOS stop, just stop…catering to “Instant Gratification” (aka Causal) gamers! This type of gamer might hang around for a month or even 6 months, however your long term core gamer base are competitive players who want to have multiple vet ranks alts, max out CP and/or be at the top on leader boards cause we earned it. Stop just giving away what should have to be earned, due to a few casuals complaining. Consider me an “old school gamer” but if you want to be the top rank in any MMO then EARN IT! Part of the allure of an MMO is the longer you stick around the higher rank and more well-crafted alts you can acquire.

• Tired of getting killed by VR16 in PvP…then vet out!
• Want to be top of leader boards then…Earn it!
• Want more CP…Grind It!
• Tired of getting ganked / killed easily or don’t have a skill yet in Cyrodiil that others do…then theory-craft a new build & earn more AP!

Don’t try and tell me PvP rank does not matter; only a PvPer with a low level PvP rank thinks this…trust me I earned every one of my ranks.

Those of us that have been around since Beta are still here 2 years later because we love the game and enjoy the challenge of earning AP, raising our alliance rank & leader board ranks, etc... Catering to the short term instant gratification gamer will continue to kill the core base.

Side Note: Before all you casual gamers try and say “Must be nice to sit in mom’s basement all day and game.” I am the mother; I own my own business, my home and my cars. Sure, I sleep less, log in on breaks from work and spend most of my free time logged in, so I can be compete in this game.

ZOS please continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the short term casual gamer.

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

Sadly casuals aka pvers/mount-buyers are the ones that are important to Zos b€cau$€.

Taryf · February 2016

“Instant Gratification” (aka Causal) gamers

As i remember "casual" means something else.
Hardcore plays a lot and long gaming sesions
Casual plays in free time, and much shorter

Apart of above, i total agree with You.
MMORPG should be focus on progress and self-improvment.

And im a casual player...

WalkingLegacy · February 2016

But OP, that short term money is all ZOS cares about.

Casual gamers are the same as mobile gamers...the type of people who drop $99.99 (US currency is the only currency that matters) on crappy mobile games that offer short term thrills.

D0ntevenL1ft · February 2016

So don't cater to their largest population? Smart business move.

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

But OP, that short term money is all ZOS cares about.

Casual gamers are the same as mobile gamers...the type of people who drop $99.99 (US currency is the only currency that matters) on crappy mobile games that offer short term thrills.

You're not very well informed it seems

WalkingLegacy · February 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

But OP, that short term money is all ZOS cares about.

Casual gamers are the same as mobile gamers...the type of people who drop $99.99 (US currency is the only currency that matters) on crappy mobile games that offer short term thrills.

You're not very well informed it seems

On the contrary, I'm just your typical cocky American Marine

Xellos77 · February 2016

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

So don't cater to their largest population? Smart business move.

Wanted to respond, but I saw the words have already been spoken before me.

As a side note, "Hardcore" undoubtedly makes up the smallest percentage of the player base. As a business-woman, you should know what this means. Cater to your population.

You may be interested in EVE Online, however. I hear the whole game is one giant Hardcore player-base. No personal experience because I never played it, but I hear it's a very intense game socially-wise.

Smitch_59 · February 2016

I'm a casual, PvE carebear. But I'm NOT "instant gratification." PvP rank doesn't matter to me 'cause I don't PvP. I have never been ganked. I've never complained that I don't get the gear or skill lines that PvPers get, 'cause they don't matter to me.

You play how you like and I'll play how I like.

Oh, and the only time I've ever bought crowns was when they were on sale in December. If I want to spend them on mounts or pets, that's my business. Why should you care?

Browiseth · February 2016

Oh look, another thread full of pathetic ego

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

But OP, that short term money is all ZOS cares about.

Casual gamers are the same as mobile gamers...the type of people who drop $99.99 (US currency is the only currency that matters) on crappy mobile games that offer short term thrills.

You're not very well informed it seems

On the contrary, I'm just your typical cocky American Marine

Well the typical cocky american marine is never actually well informed

BabeestorGor · February 2016

OP's post is a load of prejudice unsupported by evidence
Just because someone is a "casual" mmo player doesn't mean they don't take their gaming seriously, aren't competitive , don't want challenging content etc
It does mean they probably don't want endless grinding though
By all means lock the best gear behind difficult dungeons and trials, just don't make getting the gear once they are completed depend on having the time to run them dozens of times

DatRascal · February 2016

For those thinking it is a bad business model...Short term gamers will always pay the money, play for a bit and leave. Those of us been around a long time have been spending our money over time on the game, yes we have the mounts, new outfits...etc. So with us the game makes money over time and still gets the money off the short term players.

DatRascal · February 2016

Browiseth wrote: »

Oh look, another thread full of pathetic ego

Nothing to do with ego...My point was more towards ZOS and the changes they are making due to threads of complaints.

Egonieser · February 2016

Xellos77 wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

So don't cater to their largest population? Smart business move.

Wanted to respond, but I saw the words have already been spoken before me.

As a side note, "Hardcore" undoubtedly makes up the smallest percentage of the player base. As a business-woman, you should know what this means. Cater to your population.

You may be interested in EVE Online, however. I hear the whole game is one giant Hardcore player-base. No personal experience because I never played it, but I hear it's a very intense game socially-wise.

Indeed it is. There is no hand-holding - you are thrust in a virtual world after the tutorial to fend for yourself. Unless you have friends to back you up - you are alone facing the big dogs and virtual corporate suits both good and evil alike. Nobody will hesitate to take an advantage of you and the game environment and the core concept of it is built around it - you forge your own fate and path - just like in real world.
A gameplay like that only appeals to those who are willing to dedicate a part of their life to live in a virtual life and make their alter ego's there. Casuals don't last long there, if at all.
There is certainly an appeal and I love it - before I got married and had kids I spent a good long while there, but obviously had to change to something casual for my new schedule such as ESO ( even the most hardcore elements of ESO are casual compared to EVE)

bedlom · February 2016

How about you stop telling ppl what to do.
Is you're game and life that ungratified lol

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

Logically this is eso were talking about here. I for instance am nearing 3k hours since June on console launch. Pretty hard going. Never had imp motif, glass or ambrosia frags. Yet noobs land it straight away and vanish...so surely ZOS puts these things in crown store for us hard core gamers when we give up and decide to buy with cold hard cash. No noob is paying what $55 for a glass motif. That's madness but grind someone down for a year on end with rng and it looks like small change to them. Different to mobile games who make you pay for instant progress. There is NO instant progress in this game. Xp scrolls at low levels would be the worst purchase ever. OT if tired of getting ganked just stay out of my sewers. Running around the same grind spot in a buff server is just asking for sharks to come along and feed. ( campaign resets would stop this straight away, it ends and all keeps go back to being neutral problem solved)

Alorier · February 2016

Lol can't make out if Op is trolling or being deadly serious

bikerangelo · February 2016

Realistically speaking, the 90% are the casual players that get ZOS the most money, so catering to them is a win-win from a business perspective. However, if this were an esport with legitimate competition and fair play, the catering would be replaced by a strict attention to balance and laying an even playing field, but it isn't, so it's not.
Otherwise I completely agree, it's just in their best interest to accommodate newer players.

EDIT: if you're referring to the AP changes made for the requirements for the Alliance War skill trees, I honestly think it's fine, maybe a bit too much of a change, but it seems fine to me. As long as the AP requirements between Alliance Ranks are still the same, then that's something that can still be seen as being earned, but when it comes to skill trees that take an abhorrent amount of time to level up, it makes sense to lessen the grind. I'm looking at you too, Undaunted skill line.

xellink · February 2016

DatRascal wrote: »

Gamer Rant:

• Tired of getting killed by VR16 in PvP…then vet out!
• Want to be top of leader boards then…Earn it!
• Want more CP…Grind It!
• Tired of getting ganked / killed easily or don’t have a skill yet in Cyrodiil that others do…then theory-craft a new build & earn more AP!

Don’t try and tell me PvP rank does not matter; only a PvPer with a low level PvP rank thinks this…trust me I earned every one of my ranks.

And the point of your thread is??? Most people agree that pvp ranks do matter and u should earn your rank. However, PVP skills change builds, gameplay etc, by locking casuals out, you are essentially locking out a huge playerbase of content!

Many people already vet out. Problem is recurring supernewbies with loads of cp dominate non vet servers which is not 100% based on skill but rather grind. Why should a skillful player not be rewarded because the server is filled with max cp 2nd and 3rd characters.

People want to experience a game and if u keep locking that experience out, its not worth their money to continue to invest in the game.

EQBallzz · February 2016

Did not receive a pellet of food reward after first paragraph of TLDR rant. Would not not read again. 3 out of 10.

bedlom · February 2016

Nothing in this game is instant gratification.

notimetocare · February 2016

DatRascal wrote: »

Gamer Rant:

ZOS stop, just stop…catering to “Instant Gratification” (aka Causal) gamers! This type of gamer might hang around for a month or even 6 months, however your long term core gamer base are competitive players who want to have multiple vet ranks alts, max out CP and/or be at the top on leader boards cause we earned it. Stop just giving away what should have to be earned, due to a few casuals complaining. Consider me an “old school gamer” but if you want to be the top rank in any MMO then EARN IT! Part of the allure of an MMO is the longer you stick around the higher rank and more well-crafted alts you can acquire.

• Tired of getting killed by VR16 in PvP…then vet out!
• Want to be top of leader boards then…Earn it!
• Want more CP…Grind It!
• Tired of getting ganked / killed easily or don’t have a skill yet in Cyrodiil that others do…then theory-craft a new build & earn more AP!

Don’t try and tell me PvP rank does not matter; only a PvPer with a low level PvP rank thinks this…trust me I earned every one of my ranks.

Those of us that have been around since Beta are still here 2 years later because we love the game and enjoy the challenge of earning AP, raising our alliance rank & leader board ranks, etc... Catering to the short term instant gratification gamer will continue to kill the core base.

Side Note: Before all you casual gamers try and say “Must be nice to sit in mom’s basement all day and game.” I am the mother; I own my own business, my home and my cars. Sure, I sleep less, log in on breaks from work and spend most of my free time logged in, so I can be compete in this game.

ZOS please continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the short term casual gamer.

What amuses me most is that you as a 'hardcore' gamer are likely carried by the skills, lvl, and gear that you want other people to earn. Many high end players and streamers of the is game welcome the incoming changes. For someone that claims to run their own business, you know seem nothing about doing so (at least in regards to an MMO).

MMOs constantly lose and gain new players, this is how they work. There are a few kinds of gamers in an mmo: the hardcore, the 'hardcore' (this is you), and the casual. Casuals are people that play for a wide variety of reasons, but do not make the game their whole lives. Hardcore people play the game to the best they can and could care less about others. Then there are the 'hardcore' that get carried by grinds and complain when other people get what they earned easier. However, I will addresss your points for the sake of amusement.

This is a bad developer choice. A VR 1 and VR 16 have to enter the same campaign. Either they make a very good effort to balance or remove it.
Since when did casuals care for leaderboards? I have yet to see many complaints about any leaderboard form someone claiming to be casual.
Some people do actually have lives and find grinding boring. Grinding should not be part of an MMO to simply be 'viable' by math. That is not competitive it is monotonous.
Every single skill line in the game can be earned in a reasonable amount of time aside from Alliance war. Even with a MASSIVE nerf to the AP requirements, most players still will not see the skills for a few months at minimum. If this is your idea of fair gameplay (and a wise business choice) you are far more naive than you think you are.

I have been around since beta as well, but I am not still playing because of tedious grinds, I am playing because the combat is fun, varied builds are interesting and any class can perform any role. It would be wise not to speak for everyone. And if you truly think the game will be sustained by keeping the 'hardcore' players, I sure hope the business you own is ran by someone with more business sense.

DatRascal · February 2016

xellink wrote: »

DatRascal wrote: »

Gamer Rant:

• Tired of getting killed by VR16 in PvP…then vet out!
• Want to be top of leader boards then…Earn it!
• Want more CP…Grind It!
• Tired of getting ganked / killed easily or don’t have a skill yet in Cyrodiil that others do…then theory-craft a new build & earn more AP!

Don’t try and tell me PvP rank does not matter; only a PvPer with a low level PvP rank thinks this…trust me I earned every one of my ranks.

And the point of your thread is???

Those are simply my reactions to the many, many, many posts on the forums with those very complaints. Then ZOS reaction is to over nurf & cap.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · February 2016

There are more than 'casuals' on this forum demanding instant gratification...

DatRascal · February 2016

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

There are more than 'casuals' on this forum demanding instant gratification...

Valid point.

Kalebron · February 2016

I think the OP is concerned about the PVP skill line. It is being reduced so that others who don't play as often can have access to some of the skills. Personally, I do PVP and PVE so I am about 50/50. I don't think the PVP skilline is the endall of skills to have access to nor should it be. The skills are situational at best. I think it would be awesome for others to have access sooner so PVP would be more interesting.

Resipsa131 · February 2016

Based upon the RNG gods and my luck ZOS needs to cater more to me.

Annalyse · February 2016

I consider myself a casual player, in that I am not competitive at all (I don't PvP) and just play at a relaxed pace whenever I have spare time. That said, I am a gamer that will stick around for years if I like a game (spent 8 years with my last MMO) just making new alts and levelling them. I hate when things get made easier and easier because I end up running out of things to do. I'm already dreading the removal of vet ranks because if my alts just stop at 50 and are instantly at the gear level of my top vet character I will likely stop playing them. Which means I won't be sticking around at this game for all that long.

Things are easy enough as they are right now. I never grind and I have absolutely no problem levelling.

Sharkano · February 2016

I agree 100% with original post. An open world where the sky's the limit and people are free to move on at their own preferred speeds is what I like, and how most MMO's work. A heavy-handed "government" that restricts everything and tries to hand out "welfare" to everyone who just signed in sucks, frankly.

Emma_Overload · February 2016

DatRascal wrote: »

Gamer Rant:

ZOS stop, just stop…catering to “Instant Gratification” (aka Causal) gamers! This type of gamer might hang around for a month or even 6 months, however your long term core gamer base are competitive players who want to have multiple vet ranks alts, max out CP and/or be at the top on leader boards cause we earned it. Stop just giving away what should have to be earned, due to a few casuals complaining. Consider me an “old school gamer” but if you want to be the top rank in any MMO then EARN IT! Part of the allure of an MMO is the longer you stick around the higher rank and more well-crafted alts you can acquire.

• Tired of getting killed by VR16 in PvP…then vet out!
• Want to be top of leader boards then…Earn it!
• Want more CP…Grind It!
• Tired of getting ganked / killed easily or don’t have a skill yet in Cyrodiil that others do…then theory-craft a new build & earn more AP!

Don’t try and tell me PvP rank does not matter; only a PvPer with a low level PvP rank thinks this…trust me I earned every one of my ranks.

Those of us that have been around since Beta are still here 2 years later because we love the game and enjoy the challenge of earning AP, raising our alliance rank & leader board ranks, etc... Catering to the short term instant gratification gamer will continue to kill the core base.

Side Note: Before all you casual gamers try and say “Must be nice to sit in mom’s basement all day and game.” I am the mother; I own my own business, my home and my cars. Sure, I sleep less, log in on breaks from work and spend most of my free time logged in, so I can be compete in this game.

ZOS please continue to design the game to be competitive and challenging…stop making changes to please the short term casual gamer.

Although I agree with a lot of this, there is a flaw in your rant. The "old timers", by definition, did not have to earn their PvP ranks by competing against players with Vigor, Caltrops, Proxy Det and a whole bunch of gear and other perks that's hard for a newbie to acquire. Most new PvP players find out fast that the reason they're not making much AP is because THEY are the ones being farmed for AP. This is very discouraging. All of Cyrodiil and PvP gameplay is structured for delivering clueless "potatoes" to be farmed by more experienced and well organized players. It's not a fun game when you're on the wrong end of this equation and discover that you ALWAYS will be because the rate you gain AP is so painfully slow.

ZOS has finally identified this problem and has come up with a sensible fix. I'm sorry if that rankles the old timers, but considering how many nerfs PvE players have had to endure because of PvP complaints, I think you guys can live with it!