The Still useless summon shade

Ampnode · February 2016

Not sure what your definition of "useless" is. I find this skill to be a must for all magicka NBs. If you can use it correctly, you can outsmart your opponent(s) and win/escape with simple fooling with teleports.

Miwerton · February 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

Not sure what your definition of "useless" is. I find this skill to be a must for all magicka NBs. If you can use it correctly, you can outsmart your opponent(s) and win/escape with simple fooling with teleports.

Its low damage, cloak would outwin it in an escape situation (although if the current magelight goes on live, then goodbye any form of stealth), and if you can outsmart them, they are most likely new to the game and therefore easy to take down. And so far it almost feels like i got sent people from the devs, theyre rational is as questionable medieval witchunting.

Samphaa · February 2016

I use the 2 shades for the minor maim on boss fights whilst tanking

Ampnode · February 2016

Miwerton wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

Not sure what your definition of "useless" is. I find this skill to be a must for all magicka NBs. If you can use it correctly, you can outsmart your opponent(s) and win/escape with simple fooling with teleports.

Its low damage, cloak would outwin it in an escape situation (although if the current magelight goes on live, then goodbye any form of stealth), and if you can outsmart them, they are most likely new to the game and therefore easy to take down. And so far it almost feels like i got sent people from the devs, theyre rational is as questionable medieval witchunting.

Why do you need it to do damage? You have swallow soul, concealed weapon, soul harvest, relentless focus, crippling grasp, and/or prox det for damage. It's used as a debuff and a potential escape plan. Nothing more. What do you want it to do, 2-3K light attacks or something?

Miwerton · February 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

Not sure what your definition of "useless" is. I find this skill to be a must for all magicka NBs. If you can use it correctly, you can outsmart your opponent(s) and win/escape with simple fooling with teleports.

Its low damage, cloak would outwin it in an escape situation (although if the current magelight goes on live, then goodbye any form of stealth), and if you can outsmart them, they are most likely new to the game and therefore easy to take down. And so far it almost feels like i got sent people from the devs, theyre rational is as questionable medieval witchunting.

Why do you need it to do damage? You have swallow soul, concealed weapon, soul harvest, relentless focus, crippling grasp, and/or prox det for damage. It's used as a debuff and a potential escape plan. Nothing more. What do you want it to do, 2-3K light attacks or something?

The debuff works at a 50% rate, and most of those damages only go for magicka based, due to ZOS contiued method of avoid checking the different stats, giving magicka a huge boost over stamina. And on a tank spec it still wont triump over my setup bars, the point of it is to make these skills that are rarely used due to the fact there isnt much to use it for, more usefull, so far you can go trough all the classes and come up with 5-6 skills that are rarely if ever used. And with the current changes to stealth its safe to say that devs dont know much about stealth mechanics in general.

Vaoh · February 2016

@Xeniph If a lot of skill combos and tricks only work on dumb people, then there seems to be PLENTY to go around

It makes sacrificing large groups of angry zerglings to slaughterfish a thing!

That teleport from Shadow Image is a really powerful tool for PvP. In the next patch they will find that they cannot always cloak as much, and it will become even more important since positioning is very important in 1vX. As for the morph that summons two shades....well....that could use tweaking, preferably to make it more powerful and Stamina-based+ another buff/debuff.

Sallington · February 2016

Shadow Image could be my single favorite skill in PvP.

Cast SI -> Hop of wall, gank a sieger -> Teleport back to the top of the wall

So much fun.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · February 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Summon shade Is perhaps one of the least used NB skill (the worst being agony, though the change could prove usefull in pvp) First of all the damage from it is pretty low to start with, and the minor maim is not as usefull as mass hysteria(pvp) or heroic slash or dizziyng swing (pve) for duration.
Also it is not considered as any damage, attacks or a dot. This I tested out by having my NB tank some Nereids with 2pc Nereiths, Maw of Infernal and Valkyin sets.

I started with Valkyin since it looked mostly like an dot, however the meteor never came, even after testing it out on 3 Nereids (Note: i was only going towards them and then summoned up the shades).

Then I tried the Maw of the Infernal, thinking theyre attacks could seen as light attacks, 3 nereids tested and not one summoned daedroth.

Then i tried the Nereith set as its it trigger is 10% and that would be easiest to figure out, 2 Nereids this time, not one proc of the set.

Making this skill in its current states useless (since as a tank you would find better use of refreshing path than shades) My suggestion would be to boost up the damage, and make it considered a Dot or attack, and Possibly make the shades stamina based (they are attacking with melee and daggers, so) and the shadow image use a staff, making it more appropriate for magicka users, as well as removing the current minor maim in favor for a better damage setup.

You seem to entirely forget the pvp aspect of the game, where shades are very powerfull and underestimated.
I think its one of the best abilities a nightblade has.
In case it might be not of any use for tanks, keep in mind that templar heals are not usefull for stamina players as whip might not be of any use for dk healers for instance. See where this is going? It is not useless at all, it is just useless for you.
Agony also is not a bad ability.

Holy necro thread batman!

I get where you're coming from, but like I posted in my thread on Siphoning Attacks and like others have pointed out in this thread, there are much better options for NB tanks (refreshing path). There are conflicting reports about Maim debuffs affecting bosses, but most seem to think it does not. I also hopped on PTS last night and was not able to get Shades to proc SA. However, they did proc skoria.

Laquey · February 2016

Miwerton wrote: »

Wait did all you people who say Shadows are good in theyre current state just came trough a portal of the reallity the devs live in.
Shadow image is only usefull in a few certain occasions in pvp, shadows lose to refreshing path in the tank deparment, And in the dps, a maigcka nb would rather use debialite/ crippling, funnel health, impale, on a pve dps bar, the shades have been mostly useless since the start of the game

No you are living in a realm where you don't read the tooltips AND you don't test mechanics.

From Shades:
"The shade's attacks cause x magic damage and cause minor maim, reducing the target's damage by 15% for 4 seconds."

I've also tested this personally and seen it's effect. It is probably the single most useful NB tank ability and if you're using low slash on your bar then I'm not sure what you're doing. Major buffs, 3% health + minor maim on one slot not costing stam? Awesome.

Xeven · February 2016

Miwerton wrote: »

Summon shade Is perhaps one of the least used NB skill

Sypher would like to have a word with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep63BL22STo

ThatNeonZebraAgain · February 2016

Laquey wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Wait did all you people who say Shadows are good in theyre current state just came trough a portal of the reallity the devs live in.
Shadow image is only usefull in a few certain occasions in pvp, shadows lose to refreshing path in the tank deparment, And in the dps, a maigcka nb would rather use debialite/ crippling, funnel health, impale, on a pve dps bar, the shades have been mostly useless since the start of the game

No you are living in a realm where you don't read the tooltips AND you don't test mechanics.

From Shades:
"The shade's attacks cause x magic damage and cause minor maim, reducing the target's damage by 15% for 4 seconds."

I've also tested this personally and seen it's effect. It is probably the single most useful NB tank ability and if you're using low slash on your bar then I'm not sure what you're doing. Major buffs, 3% health + minor maim on one slot not costing stam? Awesome.

The issue is if maim debuffs affect bosses. If I recall correctly, sometime last year the issue was tossed around and the consensus was it did not.

GreenSoup2HoT · February 2016

My problem is the duration, 15 second's seem's like a long time but it's really deceptive for console user's.

Miwerton · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Summon shade Is perhaps one of the least used NB skill

Sypher would like to have a word with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep63BL22STo

Yeah, but then again these are the same people who really dont have a learning curve, and end up dying in a fools death.

shugg · February 2016

The shades are great for tanking, not every skill needs ti do high dps. I use them to debuff the boss andvthe proc syphon strikes so i get stam and magic back.

Xeniph · February 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

@Xeniph If a lot of skill combos and tricks only work on dumb people, then there seems to be PLENTY to go around It makes sacrificing large groups of angry zerglings to slaughterfish a thing!

That teleport from Shadow Image is a really powerful tool for PvP. In the next patch they will find that they cannot always cloak as much, and it will become even more important since positioning is very important in 1vX. As for the morph that summons two shades....well....that could use tweaking, preferably to make it more powerful and Stamina-based+ another buff/debuff.

You are right about ESO having Dummies in spades.

But a simple tab target, mark target and situational awareness goes a LONG way in dealing with this skill.

Oh, and knowing to NOT follow that target that jumped off the Rock/Cliff/Bridge or other terrain. But time and again I have watched masses of people jump off fricking bridges and other certain death elevations just to blindly follow, and I laught every time I see it.

nihonseanb14_ESO · February 2016

I use the 2 shades morph on my NB tank for the dmg debuff. I like to hit a target with Quick Siphon which can be activated by the shades, not much healing, but I use a lot of self healing on him to keep going and hang in when things go south.

Vaoh · February 2016

@Xeniph Once Once, I respecced and created magicka sets for my Stam Wood Elf Nightblade so he could cloak infinitely and spam Destructive Reach/Efficient Purge. Alessia Bridge is my favorite PvP location, and the sheer amount of players fed to the slaughterfish and grassy soil below was outstanding.

You're right that against good players it doesn't fool much, but with a (rare) good magicka nightblade, it has great utility. On PS4 I think it's more difficult to track a nightblade using this, and there are probably less experienced players too.

Edit: Sometimes it's hard to not mistake players for NPCs when they follow you off a cliff, or stand on the edge looking down for a long while.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2016

CP5 wrote: »

Have you seen the voodoo magic some nb's can pull with the shadow image morph? And they debuff the target and can drain stamina well.

Every class has access to that type of debuff who blocks shades even with a magic build the damage is weak.

Teleportation is really only powerful if you have never seen it and have no idea how to counter.
1) don't look over a edge to see a body they will port back up and WB or Reach and knock you off

2) when you see that shade with the bow lay caltrops on it or any ground AoE Beast Trap is a favorite of mine bonus crit damage roots and vamps just love it and most mageblades are vamps

3) keep it in line of sight this is not hard at all unless they are in a tower

4) Tab target and mark or flare when you can't see them turn and look for the white outline and re mark or drop flare again.

nihonseanb14_ESO · April 2016

Laquey wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Summon shade Is perhaps one of the least used NB skill (the worst being agony, though the change could prove usefull in pvp) First of all the damage from it is pretty low to start with, and the minor maim is not as usefull as mass hysteria(pvp) or heroic slash or dizziyng swing (pve) for duration.
Also it is not considered as any damage, attacks or a dot. This I tested out by having my NB tank some Nereids with 2pc Nereiths, Maw of Infernal and Valkyin sets.

I started with Valkyin since it looked mostly like an dot, however the meteor never came, even after testing it out on 3 Nereids (Note: i was only going towards them and then summoned up the shades).

Then I tried the Maw of the Infernal, thinking theyre attacks could seen as light attacks, 3 nereids tested and not one summoned daedroth.

Then i tried the Nereith set as its it trigger is 10% and that would be easiest to figure out, 2 Nereids this time, not one proc of the set.

Making this skill in its current states useless (since as a tank you would find better use of refreshing path than shades) My suggestion would be to boost up the damage, and make it considered a Dot or attack, and Possibly make the shades stamina based (they are attacking with melee and daggers, so) and the shadow image use a staff, making it more appropriate for magicka users, as well as removing the current minor maim in favor for a better damage setup.

I posted this in another thread but I'll re-post it here:

Shadows should be on every defensive bar for a tank as they provide minor maim 15% damage reduction, 3% health from dark vigor and both major ward and major resolve through shadow barrier for up to 11.5 seconds with full heavy armour.

For NB tanks it's an excellent skill, the damage is irrelevant to it's function and replaces other skills that could perform the same function that use stamina and so you keep your stamina reserves up.

As mentioned in the other thread that since they are nerfing Siphoning Attacks having shades and particularly Shadow Image trigger the normal attack component of SA would be an excellent addition to NBs post nerf and make an already excellent skill effectively mandatory.

They can also proc heals from Quick Siphon

DisgracefulMind · April 2016

I think shades are fine, personally.

Panth141 · April 2016

This thread is a big fat argument against any necromancy skill line

DisgracefulMind · April 2016

Panth141 wrote: »

This thread is a big fat argument against any necromancy skill line

Oh geez, I didn't even bother looking at the date =P

umagon · April 2016

Thread might be old but they still need to make the shades look like the character you are using. And for the melee shades it would be nice if they spawned on target and not where you stand, as it takes all day for them to run to the target. Or at least they can be given a teleport like ambush. Come to think of it that would be cool looking, if you spawned them then they ambushed to the target.