Buff Sorcerers!

MrGigglypants · February 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I'm going to assume you've done no testing and are offering opinions based on patch notes only. Unless I am mistaken the champion passives Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned have always affected wards. So the more cp you invest in these as a sorc the more resistant your hardened ward is to magic, elemental damage and dots. Assuming these champion passives will still apply to wards in the new patch, the changes to Hardy will be a substantial indirect buff to hardened ward against stam builds. Why not wait to see how things pan out in that respect?

I'm cool with no spammable damage ability. I agree our other ultimates need some love.

The same can be said for all other forms of defense in the game, as well as people buffing their damage output not only in general but also toward shields specifically. I've never been a fan of how little sorc's have for room in terms of class development. There is the relatively unchanged bolty, bursty, shield based build that earns a lot of hate and then what?

At least now there have been some interesting pet changes but even then the pets only scale on sorcs who stack max magicka and nothing else. There are so many things the class could be or could do but there are just so many things in the way that they can't really take advantage of them.

The issue for me with pets is purely the micro-management aspect; I don't want to have to control minions, it's not a playstyle I enjoy/am good at. So it wouldn't really matter how much they buffed pets, unless they make it so I can have the pets on ts with me I'm not interested. I think a lot of players feel like this towards pets, so they will always be partly redundant imo. I would be happy for them to be replaced with something else entirely, as long as it could be balanced without detracting from sorcs ability for burst damage, because that's the playstyle I enjoy.

The champion passive to increase damage on shields does worry me I'll admit, mainly because, just like the shield-breaker set, it penalises single-shield users as much as shield-stackers. As someone who only uses hardened ward in pvp I'm worried I might now feel pressured to go back to using harness and healing. But this is the only nerf sorcs have received, every other change has been a potential buff in our favour. So I'm prepared to wait to see how things pan out before crying foul about this passive.

Sounds like you just want things to be as easy as possible and take no skill. Sorc suits you.

FriedEggSandwich · February 2016

MrGigglypants wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I'm going to assume you've done no testing and are offering opinions based on patch notes only. Unless I am mistaken the champion passives Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned have always affected wards. So the more cp you invest in these as a sorc the more resistant your hardened ward is to magic, elemental damage and dots. Assuming these champion passives will still apply to wards in the new patch, the changes to Hardy will be a substantial indirect buff to hardened ward against stam builds. Why not wait to see how things pan out in that respect?

I'm cool with no spammable damage ability. I agree our other ultimates need some love.

The same can be said for all other forms of defense in the game, as well as people buffing their damage output not only in general but also toward shields specifically. I've never been a fan of how little sorc's have for room in terms of class development. There is the relatively unchanged bolty, bursty, shield based build that earns a lot of hate and then what?

At least now there have been some interesting pet changes but even then the pets only scale on sorcs who stack max magicka and nothing else. There are so many things the class could be or could do but there are just so many things in the way that they can't really take advantage of them.

The issue for me with pets is purely the micro-management aspect; I don't want to have to control minions, it's not a playstyle I enjoy/am good at. So it wouldn't really matter how much they buffed pets, unless they make it so I can have the pets on ts with me I'm not interested. I think a lot of players feel like this towards pets, so they will always be partly redundant imo. I would be happy for them to be replaced with something else entirely, as long as it could be balanced without detracting from sorcs ability for burst damage, because that's the playstyle I enjoy.

The champion passive to increase damage on shields does worry me I'll admit, mainly because, just like the shield-breaker set, it penalises single-shield users as much as shield-stackers. As someone who only uses hardened ward in pvp I'm worried I might now feel pressured to go back to using harness and healing. But this is the only nerf sorcs have received, every other change has been a potential buff in our favour. So I'm prepared to wait to see how things pan out before crying foul about this passive.

Sounds like you just want things to be as easy as possible and take no skill. Sorc suits you.

Wow there, would you like to quote the bit where I insulted you making your insult necessary? Did I do something to upset you? I want things to be as balanced as possible. I'm honest about not liking the micro-management playstyle and you feel the need to jump down my throat? You're now on my radar as someone not to take that seriously. Shame. Fwiw I admitted to only using hardened ward in pvp, as in I don't shield stack, but of course I want things to be as easy as possible and take no skill. Sorc has suited me since april 2014, thanks.

BurtFreeman · February 2016

cfrag instant cast: before cast cfrag you need to cast 2 o 3 other spells, then you have a very high chance of an instant cast.

Valrien · February 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I'm going to assume you've done no testing and are offering opinions based on patch notes only. Unless I am mistaken the champion passives Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned have always affected wards. So the more cp you invest in these as a sorc the more resistant your hardened ward is to magic, elemental damage and dots. Assuming these champion passives will still apply to wards in the new patch, the changes to Hardy will be a substantial indirect buff to hardened ward against stam builds. Why not wait to see how things pan out in that respect?

I'm cool with no spammable damage ability. I agree our other ultimates need some love.

The same can be said for all other forms of defense in the game, as well as people buffing their damage output not only in general but also toward shields specifically. I've never been a fan of how little sorc's have for room in terms of class development. There is the relatively unchanged bolty, bursty, shield based build that earns a lot of hate and then what?

At least now there have been some interesting pet changes but even then the pets only scale on sorcs who stack max magicka and nothing else. There are so many things the class could be or could do but there are just so many things in the way that they can't really take advantage of them.

The issue for me with pets is purely the micro-management aspect; I don't want to have to control minions, it's not a playstyle I enjoy/am good at. So it wouldn't really matter how much they buffed pets, unless they make it so I can have the pets on ts with me I'm not interested. I think a lot of players feel like this towards pets, so they will always be partly redundant imo. I would be happy for them to be replaced with something else entirely, as long as it could be balanced without detracting from sorcs ability for burst damage, because that's the playstyle I enjoy.

The champion passive to increase damage on shields does worry me I'll admit, mainly because, just like the shield-breaker set, it penalises single-shield users as much as shield-stackers. As someone who only uses hardened ward in pvp I'm worried I might now feel pressured to go back to using harness and healing. But this is the only nerf sorcs have received, every other change has been a potential buff in our favour. So I'm prepared to wait to see how things pan out before crying foul about this passive.

Sounds like you just want things to be as easy as possible and take no skill. Sorc suits you.

Wow there, would you like to quote the bit where I insulted you making your insult necessary? Did I do something to upset you? I want things to be as balanced as possible. I'm honest about not liking the micro-management playstyle and you feel the need to jump down my throat? You're now on my radar as someone not to take that seriously. Shame. Fwiw I admitted to only using hardened ward in pvp, as in I don't shield stack, but of course I want things to be as easy as possible and take no skill. Sorc has suited me since april 2014, thanks.

Don't listen to the haters, man.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

CP5 wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lol buff!?? Sorcs are already as tanky as a heavy armor dk, that on top of high mag damage. No just leave them as they are.

Sure, lets not give the class any choice. That way everyone can keep fighting the build we all know and love, and anyone who dares to try something different can just be killed out of revenge for being a sorc at all. Great plan.

but lets be fair though. it's the only ultimate that stacks after you can use it. No other ultimate has this. and if its at 1000 ultimate you can cast is so freaking long it's insane. first time i used this on my sorc i was like does this ultimate even end?

Valrien · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lol buff!?? Sorcs are already as tanky as a heavy armor dk, that on top of high mag damage. No just leave them as they are.

Sure, lets not give the class any choice. That way everyone can keep fighting the build we all know and love, and anyone who dares to try something different can just be killed out of revenge for being a sorc at all. Great plan.

but lets be fair though. it's the only ultimate that stacks after you can use it. No other ultimate has this. and if its at 1000 ultimate you can cast is so freaking long it's insane. first time i used this on my sorc i was like does this ultimate even end?

It lasts for about a minute. That's nothing in the new Trial.

CP5 · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lol buff!?? Sorcs are already as tanky as a heavy armor dk, that on top of high mag damage. No just leave them as they are.

Sure, lets not give the class any choice. That way everyone can keep fighting the build we all know and love, and anyone who dares to try something different can just be killed out of revenge for being a sorc at all. Great plan.

but lets be fair though. it's the only ultimate that stacks after you can use it. No other ultimate has this. and if its at 1000 ultimate you can cast is so freaking long it's insane. first time i used this on my sorc i was like does this ultimate even end?

I agree, but that is how that skill was intended to work, as a pseudo 3rd weapon. But right now I feel the class is far to reliant on it, lacking in other areas with the justification that "oh, overloads good" as an excuse for things to stay as they are.

AshTal · February 2016

I suspect you wont get much traction on this due to PvP.

A sorc in PvP has one real attack Crystal Frag so a lot of people die by this no were close to Steel tornado / Bat swarm but we all know that thanks to lag and their insane AOE damage these abilities rule supreme. However Crystal Frag often gets a fleeing opponent so people seeing the sorc killed them are never going to see this class as under powered.

Howvever I agree our pets are mostly useless in PvP or end game PvE. They are just too stupid and weak. In another game not too bad here we have to sacrifise a slot on both tool bars or we will keep losing the pet and we only have 5 spots to spare. To get decent damage we have to poor everything into max mana so we have little sustainable abilities. Pets should be made smarter and stronger and we should get a spam able damage attack.

Talwyn_Aureliano · February 2016

@ OP

5c096751ac21945c08755ba0fafbca8740f6447cc1cd3ff732b09baafd9ea494.jpg

Sorcs are plenty powerful and in no way in any universe do they need more buffs.

templesus · February 2016

I think @FENGRUSH would like to have a word with you on what a sorc needs buffed atm

Reevster · February 2016

I refuse to play my VR16 High Elf Sorc until the take away the 1 sec cast time on Crystal frags..... needs to be instant, then i would like him to do 10x the damage from stealth with frags , then i will play him again.....

Valrien · February 2016

Talwyn_Aureliano wrote: »

@ OP

Sorcs are plenty powerful and in no way in any universe do they need more buffs.

It's more constructive if you post why

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

I agree, sorcerers need a buff. Just look how long it took this team of sorcerers to kill the flesh sculptor. Pathetic.

https://youtu.be/AszE5GuCTHI

KatzMainTank · February 2016

Sorcs have awesome sustain and have the best synergy in there playstyle/combos! I agree with pets being BLEH, but Sorcs are in no way, shape or form, hindered from being viable to keep up with Stamina on a DPS scale in PvE. If anything they will outperform Stamina based classes every single time, depending on the two players knowledge of their own class.

Overload not only gives you access to a third bar, but is the only Ultimate you can stack beyond the required Ultimate to access! Couple that along with the vast amounts of build variations available to Magicka builds, DPS as a Sorc in PvE shouldn't be an issue. I don't think requesting a "spammable" ability is the right way of going about it either.

aLi3nZ · February 2016

AshTal wrote: »

I suspect you wont get much traction on this due to PvP.

A sorc in PvP has one real attack Crystal Frag so a lot of people die by this no were close to Steel tornado / Bat swarm but we all know that thanks to lag and their insane AOE damage these abilities rule supreme. However Crystal Frag often gets a fleeing opponent so people seeing the sorc killed them are never going to see this class as under powered.

Howvever I agree our pets are mostly useless in PvP or end game PvE. They are just too stupid and weak. In another game not too bad here we have to sacrifise a slot on both tool bars or we will keep losing the pet and we only have 5 spots to spare. To get decent damage we have to poor everything into max mana so we have little sustainable abilities. Pets should be made smarter and stronger and we should get a spam able damage attack.

pets got a buff in the next patch that is live on pts?. More damage and can stun and heal. They are active abilities. Who needs healing ward when you have a twighlight.

CP5 · February 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I agree, sorcerers need a buff. Just look how long it took this team of sorcerers to kill the flesh sculptor. Pathetic.
https://youtu.be/AszE5GuCTHI

Now remove overload from the equation and whats left? Sorcs were negate monkeys before that skill got gutted, think they could have done anything like that without overload being preemptively charged for likely a large part of the dungeon up to that fight?

And @KatzMainTank, which synergies/combos aside from the curse->frags->endless furry are you talking about? Look at most sorcs, they run generally the same skills and same rotations when put in similar content. If they had good in class synergy they would have choices to make. How do you see stam sorcs being able to outperform stam dk's/nb's or what builds do you think add variety to pve magicka builds. Would like some insight into why you see things that way.

KatzMainTank · February 2016

CP5 wrote: »

And @KatzMainTank, which synergies/combos aside from the curse->frags->endless furry are you talking about? Look at most sorcs, they run generally the same skills and same rotations when put in similar content. If they had good in class synergy they would have choices to make. How do you see stam sorcs being able to outperform stam dk's/nb's or what builds do you think add variety to pve magicka builds. Would like some insight into why you see things that way.

That's not the rotation I was referring to but that's one of them! Take a look at this build...

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2-1-8-the-yolo-wizard-magicka-sorcerer-insane-burst-dps-pve-build/

This build is geared towards D. P. S. Not a middle ground of survivability and damage. This is the variety I said that was available to Sorcs that really isn't available to other classes. Magicka sorc's in fact do have choices, the most choices, but that requires letting go of survivablility to some extent which doesn't really matter if your in a well rounded group. The only thing repetitive in the Magicka Sorc rotation for PvE is Overload. As what the OP was asking for, spammable DPS ability, no. The Magicka toolbox is bigger than it should be, bigger if you roll High Elf.

I love Stamina Sorcs! They actually DO lack variety, but I think that's a lack in variety of viable Stamina tools in general. I'd love to see some stamina morphs of Sorc abilities, or at least one's that are build worthy. I am all for StamSorc lovings!

Derra · February 2016

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246182/let-s-make-streak-a-vaible-dmg-spell-again?new=1

I´ve created this topic to get the developers attention to the teleport spell. While i agree with reducing moveability of sorcs they should compensate for these cost increases with increasing the secondary effects of these spells aswell!

pronkg · February 2016

Lol so much speaking a sorc main since beta

What do we need a spammable ability for again? We are already classified as tanks
With massive weapon power You want to become an Apache helicopter now?

Kippesnikke · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lol buff!?? Sorcs are already as tanky as a heavy armor dk, that on top of high mag damage. No just leave them as they are.

Sure, lets not give the class any choice. That way everyone can keep fighting the build we all know and love, and anyone who dares to try something different can just be killed out of revenge for being a sorc at all. Great plan.

but lets be fair though. it's the only ultimate that stacks after you can use it. No other ultimate has this. and if its at 1000 ultimate you can cast is so freaking long it's insane. first time i used this on my sorc i was like does this ultimate even end?

and now use it in a 10 minute fight.

Kippesnikke · February 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I agree, sorcerers need a buff. Just look how long it took this team of sorcerers to kill the flesh sculptor. Pathetic.
https://youtu.be/AszE5GuCTHI

lol easiest boss ingame. now have sorcs do it in the new raid on pts and see how long they can keep that damage up compared to a dk.

fosokles · February 2016

So it starts with "worst sustained dps in pve"
^ this clearly shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

lathbury · February 2016

25k without ulti is the same as magika nb 40k with it is way more so shhhh op

Kahen40k · February 2016

Whats wrong with force pulse?

Valrien · February 2016

fosokles wrote: »

So it starts with "worst sustained dps in pve"
^ this clearly shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

SUSTAINED. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you think Overload is "sustained".

CamBam370 · February 2016

This is pathetic , sorcs are op AF

pecheckler · February 2016

I can't believe there are players legitimately complaining about sorcerers being underpowered.

Valrien · February 2016

pecheckler wrote: »

I can't believe there are players legitimately complaining about sorcerers being underpowered.

I can't believe you're too ignorant to see that Sorcs are lacking in PvE content due to their reliance on burst (only good in PvP and extremely short boss fights).

Saturn · February 2016

That is not true though. I constantly get outdpsed by my sorcerer friend who pulls 20k+ single target. All the classes in the game can be played poorly or extremely well, I just think most people don't realise what skills make sorcerers do good dps, like keeping liquid lightnining and lightning form going, while maintaining a good weave rotation.

Sure you rely a lot on Overload, but it is also one of the best damage ultimates in the game, but Overload is also not the only thing sorcs have at their disposal. And while I am merely a novice with my sorc compared to my friend, I can still maintain 12-15k dps on fights that last beyond 3 minutes, like Serpent in SO and such.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with sorcerers is that their resource sustain ability sucks, unlike the nightblades' Siphoning Strikes. And a lot of groups don't run Necrotic Orbs and Elemental Drain like they'll run Shards and Repentance.

In terms of PvE the sorcerer class is pretty well off, sure you need to rely more on weapon skills than other classes, but that's not such a bad thing and spammable abilities aren't everything.
In terms of PvP they are still way overpowered with the shields that should never have even made it into the game. There is just something plain wrong with an instant cast 25k+ extension to your healthbar.

CP5 · February 2016

Saturn wrote: »

That is not true though. I constantly get outdpsed by my sorcerer friend who pulls 20k+ single target. All the classes in the game can be played poorly or extremely well, I just think most people don't realise what skills make sorcerers do good dps, like keeping liquid lightnining and lightning form going, while maintaining a good weave rotation.

Sure you rely a lot on Overload, but it is also one of the best damage ultimates in the game, but Overload is also not the only thing sorcs have at their disposal. And while I am merely a novice with my sorc compared to my friend, I can still maintain 12-15k dps on fights that last beyond 3 minutes, like Serpent in SO and such.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with sorcerers is that their resource sustain ability sucks, unlike the nightblades' Siphoning Strikes. And a lot of groups don't run Necrotic Orbs and Elemental Drain like they'll run Shards and Repentance.

In terms of PvE the sorcerer class is pretty well off, sure you need to rely more on weapon skills than other classes, but that's not such a bad thing and spammable abilities aren't everything.
In terms of PvP they are still way overpowered with the shields that should never have even made it into the game. There is just something plain wrong with an instant cast 25k+ extension to your healthbar.

Because it is so incredibly enjoyable to be tethered to overload, and not even overload but its light attacks. Overload heavy attacks are a joke. And 'rely more on weapon skills', yah, if I wanted to rely more on weapon skills I would still want my class to give me something interesting to work with that made the class choice matter.