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Surprise Attack OP?
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Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.
In addition to that, he is comparing a single skill(jabs) to a single skill + a passive(surprise attack by itself does not do major resolve or major ward, that comes from a separate passive).
A more fair comparison would be if he added burning light passive to the jabs - that increases the damage output considerably.
[edit] hmm even without burning light the damage against a single target does not look bad for jabs.
1388 with each strike, and iirc there are three four(it's in the tooltip dummy
) strikes during the channel, so 3x1388=4164 4x1388=5552
then, the closest target takes 140% more damage, so 4164 + 140% = 9993 5552 + 140% = 13324
Then you add burning light. Hmm.
That is not how it works. Do you even Templar?
Please, enlighten us as to how it works then. The passives are quoted correctly. The math is done correctly. Is it wrong simply because you say so?Edited by Autolycus on February 3, 2016 4:58PM0 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.
In addition to that, he is comparing a single skill(jabs) to a single skill + a passive(surprise attack by itself does not do major resolve or major ward, that comes from a separate passive).
A more fair comparison would be if he added burning light passive to the jabs - that increases the damage output considerably.
[edit] hmm even without burning light the damage against a single target does not look bad for jabs.
1388 with each strike, and iirc there are three four(it's in the tooltip dummy) strikes during the channel, so 3x1388=4164 4x1388=5552
then, the closest target takes 140% more damage, so 4164 + 140% = 9993 5552 + 140% = 13324
Then you add burning light. Hmm.
That is not how it works. Do you even Templar?
Please, enlighten us as to how it works then. The passives are quoted correctly. The math is done correctly. Is it wrong simply because you say so?
My understanding from playing a Stamplar/Magplar, was that the only hit that was multiplied by 140% is the last one, so it would look more like this:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 1.4) = 6107.2
Without knowing how high is Burning Light Proc is, hard to say where that put's him, but you only get 1 Burning Light proc per Jabs cast now, so without the proc he's 3.2k behind. Though from memory the Burning Light proc hovered around 2.5k...
Edited by Takllin on February 3, 2016 4:53PMJadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.
In addition to that, he is comparing a single skill(jabs) to a single skill + a passive(surprise attack by itself does not do major resolve or major ward, that comes from a separate passive).
A more fair comparison would be if he added burning light passive to the jabs - that increases the damage output considerably.
[edit] hmm even without burning light the damage against a single target does not look bad for jabs.
1388 with each strike, and iirc there are three four(it's in the tooltip dummy) strikes during the channel, so 3x1388=4164 4x1388=5552
then, the closest target takes 140% more damage, so 4164 + 140% = 9993 5552 + 140% = 13324
Then you add burning light. Hmm.
That is not how it works. Do you even Templar?
Please, enlighten us as to how it works then. The passives are quoted correctly. The math is done correctly. Is it wrong simply because you say so?
My understanding from playing a Stamplar/Magplar, was that the only hit that was multiplied by 140% is the last one, so it would look more like this:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 1.4) = 6107.2
Without knowing how high is Burning Light Proc is, hard to say where that put's him, but you only get 1 Burning Light proc per Jabs cast now, so without the proc he's 3.2k behind. Though from memory the Burning Light proc hovered around 2.5k...
Hmm, I see your point. With that logic, however, one adjustment needs to be made:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 2.4) = 7495
However, unless this source is incorrect (it's a bit outdated, June 30, 2015, and I don't have the tooltip in front of me atm):
While using an Aedric Spear ability:
25% chance to cause X extra Magic Damage anytime you hit with an Aedric Spear ability.
Since each individual jab constitutes a hit, I am inclined to believe the former analysis is more accurate.Edited by Autolycus on February 3, 2016 5:14PM1 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.
In addition to that, he is comparing a single skill(jabs) to a single skill + a passive(surprise attack by itself does not do major resolve or major ward, that comes from a separate passive).
A more fair comparison would be if he added burning light passive to the jabs - that increases the damage output considerably.
[edit] hmm even without burning light the damage against a single target does not look bad for jabs.
1388 with each strike, and iirc there are three four(it's in the tooltip dummy) strikes during the channel, so 3x1388=4164 4x1388=5552
then, the closest target takes 140% more damage, so 4164 + 140% = 9993 5552 + 140% = 13324
Then you add burning light. Hmm.
That is not how it works. Do you even Templar?
Please, enlighten us as to how it works then. The passives are quoted correctly. The math is done correctly. Is it wrong simply because you say so?
My understanding from playing a Stamplar/Magplar, was that the only hit that was multiplied by 140% is the last one, so it would look more like this:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 1.4) = 6107.2
Without knowing how high is Burning Light Proc is, hard to say where that put's him, but you only get 1 Burning Light proc per Jabs cast now, so without the proc he's 3.2k behind. Though from memory the Burning Light proc hovered around 2.5k...
Hmm, I see your point. With that logic, however, one adjustment needs to be made:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 2.4) = 7495
However, unless this source is incorrect (it's a bit outdated, June 30, 2015, and I don't have the tooltip in front of me atm):
While using an Aedric Spear ability:
25% chance to cause X extra Magic Damage anytime you hit with an Aedric Spear ability.
Since each individual jab constitutes a hit, I am inclined to believe the former analysis is more accurate.
They recently nerfed it, I'd have to grab the patch note but it only procs once per jab cast now, @Alcast has been a huge voice against this change.
True, would be 2.4 not 1.4Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.
In addition to that, he is comparing a single skill(jabs) to a single skill + a passive(surprise attack by itself does not do major resolve or major ward, that comes from a separate passive).
A more fair comparison would be if he added burning light passive to the jabs - that increases the damage output considerably.
[edit] hmm even without burning light the damage against a single target does not look bad for jabs.
1388 with each strike, and iirc there are three four(it's in the tooltip dummy) strikes during the channel, so 3x1388=4164 4x1388=5552
then, the closest target takes 140% more damage, so 4164 + 140% = 9993 5552 + 140% = 13324
Then you add burning light. Hmm.
That is not how it works. Do you even Templar?
Please, enlighten us as to how it works then. The passives are quoted correctly. The math is done correctly. Is it wrong simply because you say so?
My understanding from playing a Stamplar/Magplar, was that the only hit that was multiplied by 140% is the last one, so it would look more like this:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 1.4) = 6107.2
Without knowing how high is Burning Light Proc is, hard to say where that put's him, but you only get 1 Burning Light proc per Jabs cast now, so without the proc he's 3.2k behind. Though from memory the Burning Light proc hovered around 2.5k...
Hmm, I see your point. With that logic, however, one adjustment needs to be made:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 2.4) = 7495
However, unless this source is incorrect (it's a bit outdated, June 30, 2015, and I don't have the tooltip in front of me atm):
While using an Aedric Spear ability:
25% chance to cause X extra Magic Damage anytime you hit with an Aedric Spear ability.
Since each individual jab constitutes a hit, I am inclined to believe the former analysis is more accurate.
They recently nerfed it, I'd have to grab the patch note but it only procs once per jab cast now, @Alcast has been a huge voice against this change.
True, would be 2.4 not 1.4
In that case, it's a very fair point that leans in the direction of rebalancing for Jabs. I'm interested in seeing the notes for it, so I'll have to look them up a bit later.
Edited by Autolycus on February 3, 2016 5:53PM0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭After a bit of testing, I've concluded that not only does the 140% damage apply to every hit of jabs, but the Burning Light passive can proc more than once per channel (as it says in the tooltip, a chance per hit). So the following equation is accurate:
1388*4 (2.4) = 13325 + Burning Light proc
This was done in Wrothgar on mammoths. Block cancelling the jabs cast was utilized to determine if the burning light proc and the 140% additional damage occured only on the last hit, at which time it was also confirmed that Burning Light can occur multiple times per cast (sometimes on the first and last hit, etc.) I'm unsure currently if there is an ICD on the Burning Light proc, so assuming it does not face ICD limitations, the maximum additional damage from the Burning Light passive is 4X the tooltip damage amount. Note that this is subject to being lower from two things:
1. Any internal cooldown on Burning Light may prevent it from occurring on subsequent hits, limiting the maximum damage due to the proc to perhaps 2 or 3 maximum per channel.
2. The proc deals magic damage, so stamina users likely have a slightly lower value, as it is less likely that stamina users will put points into thaumaturge, etc. The tooltip scales off of the caster's highest stat, so the only real difference here is the final output.
I searched patch notes back to May 2015 to find a nerf for this, and came up with nothing. If I'm missing something, do tell.Edited by Autolycus on February 3, 2016 6:28PM3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After a bit of testing, I've concluded that not only does the 140% damage apply to every hit of jabs, but the Burning Light passive can proc more than once per channel (as it says in the tooltip, a chance per hit). So the following equation is accurate:
1388*4 (2.4) = 13325 + Burning Light proc
This was done in Wrothgar on mammoths. Block cancelling the jabs cast was utilized to determine if the burning light proc and the 140% additional damage occured only on the last hit, at which time it was also confirmed that Burning Light can occur multiple times per cast (sometimes on the first and last hit, etc.) I'm unsure currently if there is an ICD on the Burning Light proc, so assuming it does not face ICD limitations, the maximum additional damage from the Burning Light passive is 4X the tooltip damage amount. Note that this is subject to being lower from two things:
1. Any internal cooldown on Burning Light may prevent it from occurring on subsequent hits, limiting the maximum damage due to the proc to perhaps 2 or 3 maximum per channel.
2. The proc deals magic damage, so stamina users likely have a slightly lower value, as it is less likely that stamina users will put points into thaumaturge, etc. The tooltip scales off of the caster's highest stat, so the only real difference here is the final output.
I searched patch notes back to May 2015 to find a nerf for this, and came up with nothing. If I'm missing something, do tell. I'd like to see the notes where this nerf occurred, if it can be provided.
You beat me to it. I just did a test of my own, on skeletons in cyrodiil. Here are the results:
1, first screenshots is a single jabs cast against a single skeleton. You can see that all four hits do the same damage(1610 non-crit) so not only the last one is boosted, and burning light procs twice:
2, second screenshot is a single jabs against two skeletons. You can see that one of them takes 140% more damage than the other. Close skeleton damage taken(non-crit): 1610. Far skeleton damage taken(non-crit): 671.
671 + 140% = 1610
1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭You beat me to it. I just did a test of my own, on skeletons in cyrodiil. Here are the results:
1, first screenshots is a single jabs cast against a single skeleton. You can see that all four hits do the same damage(1610 non-crit) so not only the last one is boosted, and burning light procs twice:
2, second screenshot is a single jabs against two skeletons. You can see that one of them takes 140% more damage than the other. Close skeleton damage taken(non-crit): 1610. Far skeleton damage taken(non-crit): 671.
671 + 140% = 1610
so maybe you have bad sets, bad CP point distibuted?
just look on
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2654677/#Comment_2654677
and then on my post #209 in this theard
I have here sets for max dps, burst and you see my tooltip here + in these sets i have SA better than @Alucardo on wreck blow :P (so I think he just isnt on max burst items 
)
so maybe you also? no sets for max burst then0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You beat me to it. I just did a test of my own, on skeletons in cyrodiil. Here are the results:
1, first screenshots is a single jabs cast against a single skeleton. You can see that all four hits do the same damage(1610 non-crit) so not only the last one is boosted, and burning light procs twice:
2, second screenshot is a single jabs against two skeletons. You can see that one of them takes 140% more damage than the other. Close skeleton damage taken(non-crit): 1610. Far skeleton damage taken(non-crit): 671.
671 + 140% = 1610
so maybe you have bad sets, bad CP point distibuted?
just look on
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2654677/#Comment_2654677
and then on my post #209 in this theard
I have here sets for max dps, burst and you see my tooltip here + in these sets i have SA better than @Alucardo on wreck blow :P (so I think he just isnt on max burst items )
so maybe you also? no sets for max burst then
You probably misunderstood the point of my post.
I was trying to prove that
1, jabs against a single target indeed are boosted by 140%
2, the whole cast is 140% boosted, not just the last hit
3, burning light proc is not limited to once per jabs cast
I was in no way trying to demonstrate how much damage i can do with jabs. It would make no sense, because that character is
A ) veteran rank 5, and
B ) completely specced to be a healer(100 CP in blessed etc.)0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was in no way trying to demonstrate how much damage i can do with jabs. It would make no sense, because that character is
A ) veteran rank 5, and
B ) completely specced to be a healer(100 CP in blessed etc.)
yes, so sorry...this comparing have no sense agains me maxed lvl and ok...now I see this last hit, so isk...maybe bug? I asked my few friends templar and they tested it now....few also have reduced last hit from jabs....and few has incresed dmg on last hit...so Idk how its with this....maybe bugged like some others templar skills
0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was in no way trying to demonstrate how much damage i can do with jabs. It would make no sense, because that character is
A ) veteran rank 5, and
B ) completely specced to be a healer(100 CP in blessed etc.)
yes, so sorry...this comparing have no sense agains me maxed lvl and ok...now I see this last hit, so isk...maybe bug? I asked my few friends templar and they tested it now....few also have reduced last hit from jabs....and few has incresed dmg on last hit...so Idk how its with this....maybe bugged like some others templar skills
It doesn't matter what level or gear someone is wearing to test a passive, so long as all points are allocated into the passive itself. You could test this on a < lvl 50 character with the passives, so that point isn't really relevant.
What matters is the consistency of damage and the procs themselves, and so far everything I've seen points to this skill functioning normally, and functioning as stated in the tooltips for both the skill and the passive. The best way to test this is actually to unequip any sets that proc mid-combat (like Molag Kena) and to test it completely unbuffed to ensure consistency. Any number of things could lead your friends to have inconsistent numbers, and I'm betting it's because they're buffing up or benefiting from CP passives mid-combat.
Edit: You may also want to consider what addon you're using to test this. If you're using something like FTC's combat log or CLS then it should be fine, but others may be grouping the Burning Light proc along with the jabs hit itself, which would appear skewed. If you're referencing floating combat text instead of a combat log like FTC or CLS, then you might be seeing the text group together things like damage from weapon enchants as well.
Edited by Autolycus on February 3, 2016 7:54PM1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭omfgitsbatman wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.
50% shield debug and damage debug so that equals out.
I will never think of shield breaker as a nerf to sorcs. One it effects all shields for all classes. Two, it is literally the same as any other class getting hit with a light attack. It does the sender damn amount. So your saying because ppl can light attack that is a nerf?
I did forget about streak so on I can concede that. That said, it's overall effect is minimal to a decent player anyway. Decent players never spammed that but used it strategically. Same with dodgeroll good players didn't spam but used strategically.
Healing ward is still crazy good. Heals like a boss and gives solid shiled. Especially for sorcs with champ points in bastion.
Last, you can't use abilities that are available to all to show a particular class got nerfed nor a particular gear set. Healing ward is used by all mag builds besides Temps and even then some temps.
But do other classes run around with shields as their defence? 2k unblockable dmg isn't exactly something you can ignore, ever had someone with a weighted bow LA you for 2k each? Shieldbreaker is dangerous with a good players, a LA-Ransack-Bash player with shieldbreaker auto wins a sorc. Only class so have a set directly counter it's class defence, it's like having a set that doesn't allow nbs to stealth in a 50m range around you.
Bwahahahaha that's actually great. I'd buy that Would be hilarious xD
The set exists... It's the healing jewelery set from aa/hel ra. The weapon damage debuff that it gives pulls NB'S out of stealth and they can't get back into stealth until the debuff goes away. I know a templar that runs ritual and this set and just melts NB'S
Wait...how does a weapon damage debuff pull someone out of stealth?._______.
...though nevermind, I guess same way fixing dodgerolling breaks Overload.0 -
Barlthump✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.
50% shield debug and damage debug so that equals out.
I will never think of shield breaker as a nerf to sorcs. One it effects all shields for all classes. Two, it is literally the same as any other class getting hit with a light attack. It does the sender damn amount. So your saying because ppl can light attack that is a nerf?
I did forget about streak so on I can concede that. That said, it's overall effect is minimal to a decent player anyway. Decent players never spammed that but used it strategically. Same with dodgeroll good players didn't spam but used strategically.
Healing ward is still crazy good. Heals like a boss and gives solid shiled. Especially for sorcs with champ points in bastion.
Last, you can't use abilities that are available to all to show a particular class got nerfed nor a particular gear set. Healing ward is used by all mag builds besides Temps and even then some temps.
There was already a 20% dmg nerf in 1.6, so it got a 30% increase.
But do other classes run around with shields as their defence? 2k unblockable dmg isn't exactly something you can ignore, ever had someone with a weighted bow LA you for 2k each? Shieldbreaker is dangerous with a good players, a LA-Ransack-Bash player with shieldbreaker auto wins a sorc. Only class so have a set directly counter it's class defence, it's like having a set that doesn't allow nbs to stealth in a 50m range around you.
Sorc can no longer escape battles, lets be honest if you was stamina in 1.6 you went a infinite dodge roll build because thats what was most effective and thats what everyone done, even the 'good' players. Streak was how i used to get nb's out of stealth but thats no longer an option and i'll run out of magicka far too fast.
Problem will using all ability's is that nb's are pretty much the only class that have all the needed ability's, spam dps, gap closer, defence, sustain, etc....
Despite the fact that this has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion, I'd like to point out that Sorcs have the most variety in terms of skills that are useful counters against NBs, especially magicka Sorcs. There is literally a Sorc counter for everything a NB does, magicka or stamina. DKs and Templars have to work much harder for their NB kills.
Streak isn't as useless as you're making it sound. It's still good for pulling a NB out of stealth, it's just less efficient now. If that's the only thing you're using to pull a NB from cloak, you could benefit from taking a look at other options. In combination with a detect pot, streak is still an ideal skill to counter cloak. The key to countering a NB is to act quickly and never let up. I am willing to best the vast majority of the time you see a sorc vs. a NB, if the sorc stays on top of the NB it's a guaranteed win.
If you don't want to use detect pots that's your own problem. It's like saying "I ran out of magicka, but I don't want to hit this little button over here to get it back." There are 4 great magicka-based detect potions that are inexpensive to make or buy, one which gives immovable, two which give sorcery and prophecy, and all of them give intellect.
I don't run out of magicka, i run out of stamina vs nb's with the fear + SA stun. Still don't think the 15s 'reveal' with crappy range every 45s is reliable.
Awww a magicka builds running 45k magicka running out of stamina? How many points did you put into stam or how many stam runes are you using? I'm assuming a big fat 0. Cause let's face it, the sorcerers all have a nice mantra to follow, HARDENED WARD, HEALING WARD, STREAK, MINES. Rinse repeat. So stop acting like a weak class and stop whining for a change4 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.
50% shield debug and damage debug so that equals out.
I will never think of shield breaker as a nerf to sorcs. One it effects all shields for all classes. Two, it is literally the same as any other class getting hit with a light attack. It does the sender damn amount. So your saying because ppl can light attack that is a nerf?
I did forget about streak so on I can concede that. That said, it's overall effect is minimal to a decent player anyway. Decent players never spammed that but used it strategically. Same with dodgeroll good players didn't spam but used strategically.
Healing ward is still crazy good. Heals like a boss and gives solid shiled. Especially for sorcs with champ points in bastion.
Last, you can't use abilities that are available to all to show a particular class got nerfed nor a particular gear set. Healing ward is used by all mag builds besides Temps and even then some temps.
There was already a 20% dmg nerf in 1.6, so it got a 30% increase.
But do other classes run around with shields as their defence? 2k unblockable dmg isn't exactly something you can ignore, ever had someone with a weighted bow LA you for 2k each? Shieldbreaker is dangerous with a good players, a LA-Ransack-Bash player with shieldbreaker auto wins a sorc. Only class so have a set directly counter it's class defence, it's like having a set that doesn't allow nbs to stealth in a 50m range around you.
Sorc can no longer escape battles, lets be honest if you was stamina in 1.6 you went a infinite dodge roll build because thats what was most effective and thats what everyone done, even the 'good' players. Streak was how i used to get nb's out of stealth but thats no longer an option and i'll run out of magicka far too fast.
Problem will using all ability's is that nb's are pretty much the only class that have all the needed ability's, spam dps, gap closer, defence, sustain, etc....
Despite the fact that this has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion, I'd like to point out that Sorcs have the most variety in terms of skills that are useful counters against NBs, especially magicka Sorcs. There is literally a Sorc counter for everything a NB does, magicka or stamina. DKs and Templars have to work much harder for their NB kills.
Streak isn't as useless as you're making it sound. It's still good for pulling a NB out of stealth, it's just less efficient now. If that's the only thing you're using to pull a NB from cloak, you could benefit from taking a look at other options. In combination with a detect pot, streak is still an ideal skill to counter cloak. The key to countering a NB is to act quickly and never let up. I am willing to best the vast majority of the time you see a sorc vs. a NB, if the sorc stays on top of the NB it's a guaranteed win.
If you don't want to use detect pots that's your own problem. It's like saying "I ran out of magicka, but I don't want to hit this little button over here to get it back." There are 4 great magicka-based detect potions that are inexpensive to make or buy, one which gives immovable, two which give sorcery and prophecy, and all of them give intellect.
I don't run out of magicka, i run out of stamina vs nb's with the fear + SA stun. Still don't think the 15s 'reveal' with crappy range every 45s is reliable.
Awww a magicka builds running 45k magicka running out of stamina? How many points did you put into stam or how many stam runes are you using? I'm assuming a big fat 0. Cause let's face it, the sorcerers all have a nice mantra to follow, HARDENED WARD, HEALING WARD, STREAK, MINES. Rinse repeat. So stop acting like a weak class and stop whining for a change
I have 15k stamina? Why would i put points when it's cheaper for me to get it on my gear?
I'm not wining for anything, i was just pointing out the fact nb's where due a nerf. This post was before pts came out so the 'nerf' has already been revealed.
Also stop assuming i only play a sorc i play all 4 classes. If you going to cry about a class do it too someone who cares. Sorc aren't hard to counter sounds like you need to work on your pvp a bit.
Anyway I'm honoured you decided to bring up a thread which hasn't been posted in 9 days specifically to cry to me.PS4 EU DC
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Acsvf✭✭✭
While the tooltip is confusing to some degree, that is most certainly not the case. And it's not "multiplied by 140%", it's an increase.
My understanding from playing a Stamplar/Magplar, was that the only hit that was multiplied by 140% is the last one, so it would look more like this:
(1388 * 3) + (1388 * 1.4) = 6107.2
@LightArray
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »I don't run out of magicka, i run out of stamina vs nb's with the fear + SA stun. Still don't think the 15s 'reveal' with crappy range every 45s is reliable.
Awww a magicka builds running 45k magicka running out of stamina? How many points did you put into stam or how many stam runes are you using? I'm assuming a big fat 0. Cause let's face it, the sorcerers all have a nice mantra to follow, HARDENED WARD, HEALING WARD, STREAK, MINES. Rinse repeat. So stop acting like a weak class and stop whining for a change
THIS, magica build uot of stamina..hmmm its normally lol, magica build has more survivability from healing, shields etc when stamina has better burst....
nah, if no fear agains some templar, sorcs then I will never kill them this shields, healing spammers on block etc...only way for me to kill sorc is just spam fear on him to run out off stamina like on blocking templar with spam heal, without this fear I will never kill these shieldpsammers if they dont have to much stam regen for nonstop break free, its normal tacking and normal build work, magica builds slack with sstamina to break free all the day and for block when stamina slack with magica to utility like on nb is cloak, fear etc, on other classes I dont know, dont player so dont telling about this xDWhile the tooltip is confusing to some degree, that is most certainly not the case. And it's not "multiplied by 140%", it's an increase.
so...like most skills on templar..just idiot bugg, broken skill what zenimax have it in ass to fixing templar 0 -
Acsvf✭✭✭
I'm not sure what the issue you seem to see with that skill.@LightArray
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not sure what the issue you seem to see with that skill.[/quote]so...like most skills on templar..just idiot bugg, broken skill what zenimax have it in ass to fixing templar
so...this 140% bonus dmg to nearest enemy...for some my friends its good working....on only 1 enemy they tested it when I asked they for test it and some has problem with this...not always they getting this 140% bonus dmg to nearest enemy (on only 1 enemy to fight) when most of this issue they have never proc this 140% on last hit from jab0 -
Acsvf✭✭✭
I don't know then. I've never had an issue with it.
so...this 140% bonus dmg to nearest enemy...for some my friends its good working....on only 1 enemy they tested it when I asked they for test it and some has problem with this...not always they getting this 140% bonus dmg to nearest enemy (on only 1 enemy to fight) when most of this issue they have never proc this 140% on last hit from jabEdited by Acsvf on February 12, 2016 1:47PM@LightArray
Lightarray Level 50 Dunmer Magicka Templar Healer
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lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭wait jabs does more than sa and is aoe and a cc without stealth nerf jabsEdited by lathbury on March 2, 2016 9:42AM0 -
AlcastClass Representativewait jabs does more than sa and is aoe and a cc without stealth nerf jabs
Jab is 1.1s casttime
SA is instant.
and no, it does not more damagehttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB
Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery
Balanced?
@ZOS_RichLambert
Do you not know how OP Jabs are not even trolling 1.5k per hit plus it adds crit chance with each hit being both able to crit and proc burning light which is also enjoying that extra crit chance and let's not forget that both Nightblades and Templars get 10% more crit damage.
This is sad on so many levels AoE vs Single target and you still have a weak point even when you ignore that. Jabs is on par with Surprise Attack over ten seconds that damage evens out. My Stamina Templar does zero magic damage with attacks and yet I see so much "blue damage" my add one reads magic damage as blue burbling light procs a lot and crits often.
It's powerful just not in the same way.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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AlcastClass Representativekendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB
Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery
Balanced?
@ZOS_RichLambert
Do you not know how OP Jabs are not even trolling 1.5k per hit plus it adds crit chance with each hit being both able to crit and proc burning light which is also enjoying that extra crit chance and let's not forget that both Nightblades and Templars get 10% more crit damage.
This is sad on so many levels AoE vs Single target and you still have a weak point even when you ignore that. Jabs is on par with Surprise Attack over ten seconds that damage evens out. My Stamina Templar does zero magic damage with attacks and yet I see so much "blue damage" my add one reads magic damage as blue burbling light procs a lot and crits often.
It's powerful just not in the same way.
Let me tell you a story, an enemy templar approached me.....out of 20 jabs hits he hit me in the end with like 3.....gg OP ability
In theory OP yes...in practice N O P E.
Its way too *** easy to avoid. Surprise attack however can not be avoided that easily.Edited by Alcast on March 2, 2016 3:55PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB
Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery
Balanced?
@ZOS_RichLambert
Do you not know how OP Jabs are not even trolling 1.5k per hit plus it adds crit chance with each hit being both able to crit and proc burning light which is also enjoying that extra crit chance and let's not forget that both Nightblades and Templars get 10% more crit damage.
This is sad on so many levels AoE vs Single target and you still have a weak point even when you ignore that. Jabs is on par with Surprise Attack over ten seconds that damage evens out. My Stamina Templar does zero magic damage with attacks and yet I see so much "blue damage" my add one reads magic damage as blue burbling light procs a lot and crits often.
It's powerful just not in the same way.
Let me tell you a story, an enemy templar approached me.....out of 20 jabs hits he hit me in the end with like 3.....gg OP ability
In theory OP yes...in practice N O P E.
Its way too *** easy to avoid. Surprise attack however can not be avoided that easily.
Which has is why it huts harder. It is a more skillful play. Cc them and then hit them. Or snare them and get them. Etc. The new change to the ability will help this issue tremendously. At least it does for me on the pts.0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB
Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery
Balanced?
@ZOS_RichLambert
Do you not know how OP Jabs are not even trolling 1.5k per hit plus it adds crit chance with each hit being both able to crit and proc burning light which is also enjoying that extra crit chance and let's not forget that both Nightblades and Templars get 10% more crit damage.
This is sad on so many levels AoE vs Single target and you still have a weak point even when you ignore that. Jabs is on par with Surprise Attack over ten seconds that damage evens out. My Stamina Templar does zero magic damage with attacks and yet I see so much "blue damage" my add one reads magic damage as blue burbling light procs a lot and crits often.
It's powerful just not in the same way.
Let me tell you a story, an enemy templar approached me.....out of 20 jabs hits he hit me in the end with like 3.....gg OP ability
In theory OP yes...in practice N O P E.
Its way too *** easy to avoid. Surprise attack however can not be avoided that easily.
I have a Stamina Templar that I PvP with if you aim your cone it hits. Air spamming it the problem people have hit the person with a light attack then jabs and you will do just fine.
Believe it or not their are people that miss with Dawnbreaker just its a cone you just have to be mindful it becomes muscle memoryChaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭...leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.
50% shield debug and damage debug so that equals out.
I will never think of shield breaker as a nerf to sorcs. One it effects all shields for all classes. Two, it is literally the same as any other class getting hit with a light attack. It does the sender damn amount. So your saying because ppl can light attack that is a nerf?
I did forget about streak so on I can concede that. That said, it's overall effect is minimal to a decent player anyway. Decent players never spammed that but used it strategically. Same with dodgeroll good players didn't spam but used strategically.
Healing ward is still crazy good. Heals like a boss and gives solid shiled. Especially for sorcs with champ points in bastion.
Last, you can't use abilities that are available to all to show a particular class got nerfed nor a particular gear set. Healing ward is used by all mag builds besides Temps and even then some temps.
There was already a 20% dmg nerf in 1.6, so it got a 30% increase.
But do other classes run around with shields as their defence? 2k unblockable dmg isn't exactly something you can ignore, ever had someone with a weighted bow LA you for 2k each? Shieldbreaker is dangerous with a good players, a LA-Ransack-Bash player with shieldbreaker auto wins a sorc. Only class so have a set directly counter it's class defence, it's like having a set that doesn't allow nbs to stealth in a 50m range around you.
Sorc can no longer escape battles, lets be honest if you was stamina in 1.6 you went a infinite dodge roll build because thats what was most effective and thats what everyone done, even the 'good' players. Streak was how i used to get nb's out of stealth but thats no longer an option and i'll run out of magicka far too fast.
Problem will using all ability's is that nb's are pretty much the only class that have all the needed ability's, spam dps, gap closer, defence, sustain, etc....
Despite the fact that this has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion, I'd like to point out that Sorcs have the most variety in terms of skills that are useful counters against NBs, especially magicka Sorcs. There is literally a Sorc counter for everything a NB does, magicka or stamina. DKs and Templars have to work much harder for their NB kills.
Streak isn't as useless as you're making it sound. It's still good for pulling a NB out of stealth, it's just less efficient now. If that's the only thing you're using to pull a NB from cloak, you could benefit from taking a look at other options. In combination with a detect pot, streak is still an ideal skill to counter cloak. The key to countering a NB is to act quickly and never let up. I am willing to best the vast majority of the time you see a sorc vs. a NB, if the sorc stays on top of the NB it's a guaranteed win.
If you don't want to use detect pots that's your own problem. It's like saying "I ran out of magicka, but I don't want to hit this little button over here to get it back." There are 4 great magicka-based detect potions that are inexpensive to make or buy, one which gives immovable, two which give sorcery and prophecy, and all of them give intellect.
I don't run out of magicka, i run out of stamina vs nb's with the fear + SA stun. Still don't think the 15s 'reveal' with crappy range every 45s is reliable.
Awww a magicka builds running 45k magicka running out of stamina? How many points did you put into stam or how many stam runes are you using? I'm assuming a big fat 0. Cause let's face it, the sorcerers all have a nice mantra to follow, HARDENED WARD, HEALING WARD, STREAK, MINES. Rinse repeat. So stop acting like a weak class and stop whining for a change
I have 15k stamina? Why would i put points when it's cheaper for me to get it on my gear?
I'm not wining for anything, i was just pointing out the fact nb's where due a nerf. This post was before pts came out so the 'nerf' has already been revealed.
Also stop assuming i only play a sorc i play all 4 classes. If you going to cry about a class do it too someone who cares. Sorc aren't hard to counter sounds like you need to work on your pvp a bit.
Anyway I'm honoured you decided to bring up a thread which hasn't been posted in 9 days specifically to cry to me.
well you made the first step in the right direction realizing max stam is worth nothing when facing a constant ccing opponent... what you need is stam reg. actually...
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Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0