More Action Bars

Orikai · February 2016

I think that adding the ability to save different action bars for easy swapping would be good. Makes it easier than changing out individual abilities for different situations.

Horus6 · February 2016

Orikai wrote: »

I think that adding the ability to save different action bars for easy swapping would be good. Makes it easier than changing out individual abilities for different situations.

Which is also a great idea!

Horus6 · February 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

Everyone would just become togglemancers.... Getting low on HP? Swap to the healing bar, use every ability available and stack on HoTs, then back to the defensive bar, stack up them shields, before swapping to the nuke bar and unleashing hell in the form of every empowering move after the other. The purpose of having a limited number of bars means if you want to have a healing ability, you slot the one (or more) that will benefit you the most, while baring in mind it could also be taking up space for a damaging skill, or defensive one. Theres a risk/reward system there, there's Theory-crafting to be done, if it's all just open, There would JUST be the Stamina build and the Magicka build for each class. This is what I mean when I said even if it's optional to do so, your opponents within PVP will make it mandatory. They can heal using every skill but you've "chosen" to only use 2 bars and 1 healing skill, you're going to be left behind and also become a liability to the group you're in.

Sorry but you're wrong, and if you're not bad you can do this already so lol

KhajitFurTrader · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

Global cool downs only apply to abilities and spells of the same type so that wouldn't really matter

It would matter if there were 10/20/30 or more abilities, instead of just 5, which could all be spammed one after another and then over again, whereas with a GCD this wouldn't be possible. That's why other games need rotations. Here, not as much. Which again is a good thing.

bikerangelo · February 2016

Well this would be a slap in the face toward console players.

catalyst10e · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Everyone would just become togglemancers.... Getting low on HP? Swap to the healing bar, use every ability available and stack on HoTs, then back to the defensive bar, stack up them shields, before swapping to the nuke bar and unleashing hell in the form of every empowering move after the other. The purpose of having a limited number of bars means if you want to have a healing ability, you slot the one (or more) that will benefit you the most, while baring in mind it could also be taking up space for a damaging skill, or defensive one. Theres a risk/reward system there, there's Theory-crafting to be done, if it's all just open, There would JUST be the Stamina build and the Magicka build for each class. This is what I mean when I said even if it's optional to do so, your opponents within PVP will make it mandatory. They can heal using every skill but you've "chosen" to only use 2 bars and 1 healing skill, you're going to be left behind and also become a liability to the group you're in.

Sorry but you're wrong, and if you're not bad you can do this already so lol

"Sorry but you're wrong" with no explanation as to "how" I'm wrong? [snip]

How are you able to do this already? No one currently has access to entire skill lines worth of skills at the touch of a button. Did you not read what I wrote, or not understand it?

The closest You get to this is with the Sorc's ability of Overload adding the 3rd bar, but it is not the same as having access to ALL defensive abilities, ALL offensive abilities, and ALL heals on multiple bars.

Moderator edit - post edited for troll

Mashille · February 2016

@Horus6

People would just have bars with all the skills available to them. This would make 0 Build variety. If people could have 5 Skill bars etc then how would any Magicka Templar differ to another as they could both use all abilities they need. I've played a lot of MMO's since DAOC and I very much love ESO's combat how it is as it gives hard decisions for build making and variety between same classes using different skills.

Horus6 · February 2016

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

Global cool downs only apply to abilities and spells of the same type so that wouldn't really matter

It would matter if there were 10/20/30 or more abilities, instead of just 5, which could all be spammed one after another and then over again, whereas with a GCD this wouldn't be possible. That's why other games need rotations. Here, not as much. Which again is a good thing.

If you look back you'll note that I'm not talking about having 10/20/30 more abillities active.

I'm only talking about having 6 more slots and a second action bar to store them, and after having checked on what another user said ( I never really noticed before) there already absolutley is a global cool down on every thing.

No it doesn't come in the form of a " black light " that dims out your skills, eso is more fluid.

The global coold own is the amount of time it takes you to execute your attack and for your characters body to get back to it's regular position which is about 1 - 2 seconds. Go look you'll see it's undeniable so your point is moot.

Resipsa131 · February 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

While I'd love to see something like the swap add-on that PC get an official console release, so i can have a PVP and a PVE set-up, adding more bars and giving everyone access to more abilities would just be problematic. Like what wayfarerx said, part of what makes the combat great is the limited number of skills you can slot and use.

I would kill for a skill and armor swap console-addon for my tank. Its an entire production swapping weapons, swapping armor, swapping skills my group just wants to run and then they pull, then you cant swap and they die while blaming you for not taunting the miniboss. "Sorry I don't run around soloing with a taunt. "

Horus6 · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@Horus6

People would just have bars with all the skills available to them. This would make 0 Build variety. If people could have 5 Skill bars etc then how would any Magicka Templar differ to another as they could both use all abilities they need. I've played a lot of MMO's since DAOC and I very much love ESO's combat how it is as it gives hard decisions for build making and variety between same classes using different skills.

Eh wrong, having more bars adds to build variety having one with 6 skills kills it.

You'll also notice if you actually took the time to read that I only suggested adding one more bar with 6 more skills, and potentially a way to swap them faster/ easier with out changing weapons.

Mashille · February 2016

@Horus6

You don't see the point. With more bars there would be 0 build variety between same attribute classes. Let me explain, if a magicka NB has that many bars, it means they have access to all the range of skills they can have. (All Class and weapon skills) This means all Magicka Nightblade builds will all have the same skills as they will all have all of them.

This means there will be literally 0 variety between Magicka Nightblades and other classes etc. Making a total of 8 Combinations, Magicka and Stamina for each class. Also, I know you may need to adapt to this combat system but if you DO adapt and learn to use it effectively, forgetting about previous 8 bar MMO's static Tab Target MMO's like WoW, then you can see the positive perks of this system. It is new and un normal so you dislike it. Trust me man, the way ESO combat works is better

Horus6 · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@Horus6

You don't see the point. With more bars there would be 0 build variety between same attribute classes. Let me explain, if a magicka NB has that many bars, it means they have access to all the range of skills they can have. (All Class and weapon skills) This means all Magicka Nightblade builds will all have the same skills as they will all have all of them.

This means there will be literally 0 variety between Magicka Nightblades and other classes etc. Making a total of 8 Combinations, Magicka and Stamina for each class. Also, I know you may need to adapt to this combat system but if you DO adapt and learn to use it effectively, forgetting about previous 8 bar MMO's static Tab Target MMO's like WoW, then you can see the positive perks of this system. It is new and un normal so you dislike it. Trust me man, the way ESO combat works is better

Wrong.

Having more = more diversity you're going under the assumption that every player in the game goes to google and types " how do I play my class in eso"

Not every one needs nor wants or even cares what skills/abilities every one else uses, some people mix and match from all of the different skill lines as it is including myself.

People should be free to play how they want with more you will never have less it's common sense and say other wise is just wrong.

I mean really how can you say that if you have for example 6 more slots every one in this game will use the same things? It's backwards lol... more does not equal less.

Asmodean · February 2016

I think people get a bit overzealous in their opposition to stuff like this in their replies, because subconsciously their afraid ZOS will see the thread, made by one single person - and go "hmm here's a thread about this. people must want it" and then go implement it lol.

So they then make themselves uber adamant in their replies about how they utterly oppose the idea, and shut it down harshly. To make it clear *just in case*

I think this is more so the case, rather than them actually not being open to other people's opinions ;p

Tandor · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

I've asked multiple times how it would negatively impact your game play because I'm genuinely trying to understand your point of view, hopefully you're willing to do the same for me

I imagine it would negatively impact on those who PvP or otherwise play competitively or in groups etc because they would be forced to use more action bars whether to remain competitive or to meet someone else's minimum requirements for e.g. allowing them into a group.

The basic problem with the proposal is that it's just another attempt to turn the game into a different type of game. This isn't a traditional MMO, it's a MMO conversion of a single-player TES game, and one in which the tactical choice of skills for combat is an essential part. The simple let-out of "it would be optional so it wouldn't affect you" simply doesn't wash, I'm afraid, in respect of a change that would totally transform the style and structure of the game thereby turning it into something it was never intended to be. As such, I'm totally against it.

Horus6 · February 2016

Asmodean wrote: »

I think people get a bit overzealous in their opposition to stuff like this in their replies, because subconsciously their afraid ZOS will see the thread, made by one single person - and go "hmm here's a thread about this. people must want it" and then go implement it lol.

So they then make themselves uber adamant in their replies about how they utterly oppose the idea, and shut it down harshly. To make it clear *just in case*

I think this is more so the case, rather than them actually not being open to other people's opinions ;p

And I agree with that which is why it's sad

Mashille · February 2016

@Horus6

Ok, you have completely ignored all the reasons I presented to you and have stuck with 'More = better' even though I have shown you many of the reasons why it's not. [snip]

Moderator edit - post edited for troll

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Why is everyone so hostile? We need something to break the artificial skill cap placed on us by limited skill slots and woefully slow weapon swaps.

More skill slots would be a good thing. It brings more counters, more build diversity, more AOE to bust up ball groups. Just one more slot per bar could do some amazing things for this game.

i disagree. with this limited bar you have to choose between skills. the more skills you can have on your bar the FEWER the diversity will become

KhajitFurTrader · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

The global coold own is the amount of time it takes you to execute your attack and for your characters body to get back to it's regular position which is about 1 - 2 seconds.

Oh, so that's why animation canceling is so popular. I mean, people wouldn't do it if they hadn't some advantage from doing it, would they? With a GCD, this kind of behavior would be moot indeed.

There is a difference whether the GCD is enforced the hard way by the server, or the soft way by the client.

Horus6 · February 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

I've asked multiple times how it would negatively impact your game play because I'm genuinely trying to understand your point of view, hopefully you're willing to do the same for me

I imagine it would negatively impact on those who PvP or otherwise play competitively or in groups etc because they would be forced to use more action bars whether to remain competitive or to meet someone else's minimum requirements for e.g. allowing them into a group.

The basic problem with the proposal is that it's just another attempt to turn the game into a different type of game. This isn't a traditional MMO, it's a MMO conversion of a single-player TES game, and one in which the tactical choice of skills for combat is an essential part. The simple let-out of "it would be optional so it wouldn't affect you" simply doesn't wash, I'm afraid, in respect of a change that would totally transform the style and structure of the game thereby turning it into something it was never intended to be. As such, I'm totally against it.

Once again it wouldn't.

there is no way that this can negativley impact any one, it's not possible in any aspect of the game play, you can already swap action bars and use different skilsl etc.. having access to 6 more with out having to swap any thing wouldn't have any negative impact on any one.

As it's been pointed out cool downs already exist, so spamming things wouldn't be possible.

There is a blocking system in place which allows you to block and or interrupt which people should already be using.

Having access to 6 more slots and one more action can not in any way impact any one negativley, it can only benefit players.

[qoute]
The basic problem with the proposal is that it's just another attempt to turn the game into a different type of game. This isn't a traditional MMO, it's a MMO conversion of a single-player TES game, and one in which the tactical choice of skills for combat is an essential part. The simple let-out of "it would be optional so it wouldn't affect you" simply doesn't wash, I'm afraid, in respect of a change that would totally transform the style and structure of the game thereby turning it into something it was never intended to be. As such, I'm totally against it.[/quote]

It absolutely does, whether it's a traditional mmorpg or not is meaningless.

If you don't want to use extra skills, or have an extra action bar visible then you don't have to, and from your point of view you wouldn't and couldn't know if any one else did either.

" No it's true it would make me have to use more things to stop them from using more things "

Yeah no it wouldn't, you can still interrupt, you can still block hell you can knockdown and incapacitate people this is action combat if you're good you can prevent some one from doing any thing. It would be no different then how it is now and that's a fact.

this isn't a single player game, and even in single player gamers.

Do you understand that RP = role playing, me playing the way I want to does not and would not effect you beyond say for instance " Well they got another action bar, but I don't want one so now I want some thing else "
There is no valid argument that can be presented as to how this could negatively impact any one lol.

As it's been pointed out...

1. This is not a traditional mmorpg.

2. Any one and every one can Block, Interrupt, Heal, tank, cast spells, be melee etc..

3. This is action combat you have all the basic elements at your disposal to lock down and destroy some one regardless of how many skills they have access to.

4. " Well yeah but cc will be bad " nope, every one can break cc

NewBlacksmurf · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You may have made an incorrect assumption about what the game planned to offer
Since 2012....this has been the plan and we've seen no interest in that changing.

Sorry

Source - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/10/24/dive-into-the-eso-preview-event-coverage

I make no Assumptions i've played this game since beta, just because i don't come on the forums means nothing. This has been complained about since day 1.

I think it does mean you're not familiar with the feedback on this idea you have that so many others have expressed.
I tthought to direct you to the source of the original design which per ZOS feedback is not in the works of changing or in consideration of being changed for the foreseeable future.

Everyone also says here....never say never....just sharing

You seem to be under the impression that the official forums represents the will of the entire community, or that a post(s) from a dev means that every one agrees with this which leads me to believe you're new to the wonderful world of mmorpgs where the official forums never represent the entire community.

And the devs only ever cater to one group of players lol.

You've not once given any information as to why and or how this would negatively impact any ones game play so until you do why even bother posting things lol.

Actually NO I'm not under that premise at all.

I have said and keep saying over and over again...the forums are just a very small fraction of the entire game community....I've gone as far as pointing out its less than 5% of active accounts in many other discussions.

FYI....I'm far from new. Been around MMO's playing them on PC since the 1990's and been here since 2012 and playing since 2013 closed BETA.

I didn't think it was relevant to give details as this topic has been discussed and beaten into the ground since 2013-2014. Its not being considered by ZOS and I personally have no desires for this, sorry.

I understand you may not have been around in closed BETA or active on the forums and or in the PC or console game or perhaps don't follow most ESO Live shows....but...this topic comes up so often....its easier just to do a forum search vs creating new threads.

I understand ppl want to keep being heard and want their ideas to be treated just as important as the next....but based on the ZOS topics, direction and ESO Live shows since the first one.....this isn't happening and its been a common understanding among active players whether they are on the forums or just in the game.

Horus6 · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@Horus6

Ok, you have completely ignored all the reasons I presented to you and have stuck with 'More = better' even though I have shown you many of the reasons why it's not.

[snip]

No you've not provided me with any thing.

All you've done is said if people have more action bars there wont be any diversity..

By definition there would be LOL...

Moderator edit - post edited to match moderated quotation

Horus6 · February 2016

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

The global coold own is the amount of time it takes you to execute your attack and for your characters body to get back to it's regular position which is about 1 - 2 seconds.

Oh, so that's why animation canceling is so popular. I mean, people wouldn't do it if they hadn't some advantage from doing it, would they? With a GCD, this kind of behavior would be moot indeed.

There is a difference whether the GCD is enforced the hard way by the server, or the soft way by the client.

Not valid your comments suggests people are already abusing this which it wouldn't be made worse by having more skills, you can just cancel an animation and slam your fingers down on 5 keys and expect all five to be executed it doesn't work that way, you want to spam things okay..

1 attack 2 attack etc.. you can't do more then one thing at a time even if you cancel an animation.

strikeback1247 · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

One of the best parts of this game's combat system IMO is the very small action bar and the ability to weapon swap. I would be very disappointed if they allowed us to fill our screen with 30 action bars like some other MMOs.

And I'm still disappointed that I can't, and that's the point.

You wouldn't have to fill up your screen with action bars or add any spells/abilities if you don't want to, why?

Because they could do what pretty much every other mmorpg has and still does which is give players the option to add the action bars (or rather to make them visible and use them). So no it wouldn't effect your play style.

But being forced to only use a minuscule portion of what I have limits me and takes away from my experience

A very large portion of the eso community doesn't want this game to be like every other mmorpg. You just need to choose the skills that you want to use. Not that hard.

Horus6 · February 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You may have made an incorrect assumption about what the game planned to offer
Since 2012....this has been the plan and we've seen no interest in that changing.

Sorry

Source - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/10/24/dive-into-the-eso-preview-event-coverage

I make no Assumptions i've played this game since beta, just because i don't come on the forums means nothing. This has been complained about since day 1.

I think it does mean you're not familiar with the feedback on this idea you have that so many others have expressed.
I tthought to direct you to the source of the original design which per ZOS feedback is not in the works of changing or in consideration of being changed for the foreseeable future.

Everyone also says here....never say never....just sharing

You seem to be under the impression that the official forums represents the will of the entire community, or that a post(s) from a dev means that every one agrees with this which leads me to believe you're new to the wonderful world of mmorpgs where the official forums never represent the entire community.

And the devs only ever cater to one group of players lol.

You've not once given any information as to why and or how this would negatively impact any ones game play so until you do why even bother posting things lol.

Actually NO I'm not under that premise at all.

I have said and keep saying over and over again...the forums are just a very small fraction of the entire game community....I've gone as far as pointing out its less than 5% of active accounts in many other discussions.

FYI....I'm far from new. Been around MMO's playing them on PC since the 1990's and been here since 2012 and playing since 2013 closed BETA.

I didn't think it was relevant to give details as this topic has been discussed and beaten into the ground since 2013-2014. Its not being considered by ZOS and I personally have no desires for this, sorry.

I understand you may not have been around in closed BETA or active on the forums and or in the PC or console game or perhaps don't follow most ESO Live shows....but...this topic comes up so often....its easier just to do a forum search vs creating new threads.

I understand ppl want to keep being heard and want their ideas to be treated just as important as the next....but based on the ZOS topics, direction and ESO Live shows since the first one.....this isn't happening and its been a common understanding among active players whether they are on the forums or just in the game.

Then they can continue to beat this into the ground, you've not given any valid information as to how it negatively impact you or any one else aside from the typical " waah waah I don't want it" which you wouldn't have to use it even if they gave it.

You keep talking about zos saying they'll never do it etc.. but mmo companies change their minds and their policies like politicians so saying one day it wont happen doesn't mean it wont the next.

I don't care how long you say you've been here people on the internet lie, you keep pointing out useless information, forgetting that the only way things do change for better or for worse is by people talking.

Wollust · February 2016

After having to play half a year with close to no build variety anymore, an idea like this would more or less kill the last variety we have in builds nowadays. Having a limited choice of slots forces you to think about what you want and need and might also force you to sacrifice some things for others. While having more slots just takes this point of thought in building our character. Ofc there is some skills that will always be on the bars of every class, but there is still quite a few things players have to decide on their own depending on their playstyle etc.
You say it wouldn't be enforced, but truth is to be competitive you would need to use it.

And that's why I am opposed to it. Happy?

strikeback1247 · February 2016

With an extra skill bar, all content will be made a ton easier. Healers can have two healing bars and a dps bar. DD's can have two dps bars and one healing bar. All the content in the game will be *** easy. How is this not negative?

Prabooo · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

The limited number of abilities and bars is a GOOD thing. It means choosing each skill makes a large impact meaning people really think whether they want A or B and how they will benefit them

Okay you've finally given some thing worth responding to.

Sadly this in no way would negatively impact your game play, other peoples abilities have no impact on you, and again having the OPTION to use more action bars wouldn't effect you if you chose not to use them.

Before you tell me that other peoples abilities and spells effect you, in pvp let me assure you that they wouldn't beyond what they already do and even attempting to suggest other wise is a moot point.

You have how ever aided me in proving a small part of my point, I want to be able to use various different abilities at different times and I shouldn't be limited to using 6 of them just because a portion of the player base doesn't want any more.

IMO it is not about catering a portion of the player base, it is about the mess it would bring to server calculations, as there are no global cooldowns for the skills and the economy of combat as it is.

catalyst10e · February 2016

Horus6 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You may have made an incorrect assumption about what the game planned to offer
Since 2012....this has been the plan and we've seen no interest in that changing.

Sorry

Source - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/10/24/dive-into-the-eso-preview-event-coverage

I make no Assumptions i've played this game since beta, just because i don't come on the forums means nothing. This has been complained about since day 1.

I think it does mean you're not familiar with the feedback on this idea you have that so many others have expressed.
I tthought to direct you to the source of the original design which per ZOS feedback is not in the works of changing or in consideration of being changed for the foreseeable future.

Everyone also says here....never say never....just sharing

You seem to be under the impression that the official forums represents the will of the entire community, or that a post(s) from a dev means that every one agrees with this which leads me to believe you're new to the wonderful world of mmorpgs where the official forums never represent the entire community.

And the devs only ever cater to one group of players lol.

You've not once given any information as to why and or how this would negatively impact any ones game play so until you do why even bother posting things lol.

Actually NO I'm not under that premise at all.

I have said and keep saying over and over again...the forums are just a very small fraction of the entire game community....I've gone as far as pointing out its less than 5% of active accounts in many other discussions.

FYI....I'm far from new. Been around MMO's playing them on PC since the 1990's and been here since 2012 and playing since 2013 closed BETA.

I didn't think it was relevant to give details as this topic has been discussed and beaten into the ground since 2013-2014. Its not being considered by ZOS and I personally have no desires for this, sorry.

I understand you may not have been around in closed BETA or active on the forums and or in the PC or console game or perhaps don't follow most ESO Live shows....but...this topic comes up so often....its easier just to do a forum search vs creating new threads.

I understand ppl want to keep being heard and want their ideas to be treated just as important as the next....but based on the ZOS topics, direction and ESO Live shows since the first one.....this isn't happening and its been a common understanding among active players whether they are on the forums or just in the game.

Then they can continue to beat this into the ground, you've not given any valid information as to how it negatively impact you or any one else aside from the typical " waah waah I don't want it" which you wouldn't have to use it even if they gave it.

YOUR argument amounts to "waah waah I want it" when everyone else on here has stated several times, in several different ways, how it would negatively impact the game and all you do is repeat "WRONG!" and "More is better!"

Horus6 · February 2016

Wollust wrote: »

After having to play half a year with close to no build variety anymore, an idea like this would more or less kill the last variety we have in builds nowadays. Having a limited choice of slots forces you to think about what you want and need and might also force you to sacrifice some things for others. While having more slots just takes this point of thought in building our character. Ofc there is some skills that will always be on the bars of every class, but there is still quite a few things players have to decide on their own depending on their playstyle etc.
You say it wouldn't be enforced, but truth is to be competitive you would need to use it.

And that's why I am opposed to it. Happy?

Yes I am happy that you explained yourself better

But I still don't see how adding six extra skills takes away from any thing, and again if you don't want to use it you don't have to lol (assuming it ever got implemented).

Classes have 6 skills (not talking about passives)

weapons have 5 etc..

and so on...

You're talking about 60+ skills people can choose from

Having the ability to choose and use 6 more isn't going to take away from build variety nor from choosing one thing over another.

Horus6 · February 2016

strikeback1247 wrote: »

With an extra skill bar, all content will be made a ton easier. Healers can have two healing bars and a dps bar. DD's can have two dps bars and one healing bar. All the content in the game will be *** easy. How is this not negative?

That's your opinion, I'm of the opinion that the game is already extremely easy lol.

And again it would simply be an option which means you wouldn't have to choose to use it, there fore your game play wouldn't be effected.

and the pvp discussion has been had already