Humatiel wrote: »

Q: So i'm a magicka user right?
A: Yes, everything about your class from the lore to the class tree is magicka based

Q: I want to play stamina though, can I do so on a magicka class?
A: Of course, in eso you can play how like. SO LONG AS YOU REALIZE IT WONT BE OPTIMAL.

Q: Why isn't my magicka based character getting enough stamina abilities? This must be your fault ZOS
A: We didn't give magicka based classes many stamina abilities because we have stamina classes

Q: but..but..but...I want to be OP and stamina and magicka and tank and CP is bad and why cant I one hit things?
A: Don't worry staminamagickatank class, let me find my carebear and we'll get right on fixing that for you, we wouldn't want you to have to learn to play within your characters focus or anything.

Just about every class was magicka based in the early days. Sure Sorcerers are traditionally Magicka based, but Elder Scrolls is traditionally a single player game. With the traditional attribute point system, hybrid builds would have been more viable had ZOS done their math a little differently, but they didn't. Therefore, you now have builds dumping all attribute points into either Stamina or Magicka, with little attention to Health.

This game has been out for too long for that formula to ever change any time soon. We're not asking for another class - that would cost money for EVERYONE, so no. We're simply asking that players are given more options when choosing a class. Having Stamina specific morphs for each class, especially ones that are build-worthy, only expands options for the player.

Character's focus? Have you ever played Skyrim or any other Elder Scrolls game? Hybrid builds were the most fun to play in those games. There are no classes or "roles", only sweetrolls. You literally chose how to build and customize your character. Yes this is an MMO, but there isn't enough variety in classes for an MMO, hence why there should be open pathways to either Stam or Mag builds for all classes. Unless ZOS wants to give us the option to choose skill lines, but I don't ever seeing that happen.

tennant94 wrote: »

Whats the appeal with running a stam sorc. A sorcerer is someone who uses magic anyway.

What's the appeal of running dual swords as a mage who clearly uses casting abilities based on Magicka that would traditionally fit alongside the image of a Staff in hand anyway?

Humatiel wrote: »

Q: So i'm a magicka user right?
...

Q: Why isn't my magicka based character getting enough stamina abilities? This must be your fault ZOS
A: We didn't give magicka based classes many stamina abilities because we have stamina classes
...

There are no stamina classes. Wait, maybe with the exception of Werewolf, if this counts as a class. But even here there is one magicka based spell.
Werewolves must have filed a complaint earlier.

But let's don't derail this thread, it is about Elder Scrolls Online and its sorcerers here.

Humatiel wrote: »

Q: So i'm a magicka user right?
A: Yes, everything about your class from the lore to the class tree is magicka based

The latter can be said about every class.

I was trying out a hybrid build the other day that worked quite well. (2H Magicka sorc) I'm still experimenting but so far i found some really nice combos.

Went all in for weapon damage for high damage light attack weaving. Light attacks hit for 3200-5700. Stamina doesn't do much for your light / heavy attacks, Resource free DPS.
I didn't use many stamina abilities, so I went all in on Magicka instead, and using stamina abilites more for the effects.
Skills don't hit as hard as with higher spell damage, but can toss them quite often with some light armor and regen.

Some Really fun combos i tried was.

Place Daedric tomb on the ground when enemy is up close - Position yourself wisely. Whack enemy with Wrecking blow. BOOM, BOOM, BOOM. Setting off all the mines on knockback, while they are flying in the air. This works well with any skill that has a knockback effect. Magnum shot, etc. Awesome Burst DPS.

Another Very fun version of that worked well on Undead.
Place daedric tomb on the ground. Hit them with Endless Fury, Use, Silver Leach to pull undeads straight over the Mines. BOOM, BOOM, BOOM...

Another nice combo that worked quite well was.
Crystal shard > Deadric Curse > Critical Rush (while they are stunned)> (maybe a few light attacks) Finish off with > Endless Fury > Streak out. Rinse & Repeat.

Keeping weapon power high, adds some nice resource free DPS if you need to manage resources. Heavy attacks with any stamina based weapon seems to be enough to manage stamina.
Keeping Magicka high Will add some punch to your magicka based skills.

Just change the other morph of Crystal Frags to become a Stam morph. Maybe make it like a stam charged up gap closer that hits really hard or something since they're all about mobility

WarLord2905 wrote: »

I was not saying each class HAS to be built a certian way but unsure why anyone would expect a stam build to work as well as a on a magicka based class and vice versa. Sorceror is one of the best balanced classes because it is spec'd a certain way. If you start messing with that you end up with a class such as the templar that has no real strength except BoL because its trying to be good at everything but ends up only being good, rarely great.

Point to the stam only class and I will accept your argument.

Your current argument about screwing up the Sorcerer skill balance has been disproven in the past by the entire community of Stam sorcs who all agree that is something no one wants, and can be easily avoided.

Humatiel wrote: »

Q: So i'm a magicka user right?
A: Yes, everything about your class from the lore to the class tree is magicka based

Q: I want to play stamina though, can I do so on a magicka class?
A: Of course, in eso you can play how like. SO LONG AS YOU REALIZE IT WONT BE OPTIMAL.

Q: Why isn't my magicka based character getting enough stamina abilities? This must be your fault ZOS
A: We didn't give magicka based classes many stamina abilities because we have stamina classes

Q: but..but..but...I want to be OP and stamina and magicka and tank and CP is bad and why cant I one hit things?
A: Don't worry staminamagickatank class, let me find my carebear and we'll get right on fixing that for you, we wouldn't want you to have to learn to play within your characters focus or anything.

The only thing holding back zos from making the stam sorc optimal is creative skill development and the will to try.

tennant94 wrote: »

@cp5 I meant lore wise a sorcerer is known for using magic but a nightblade for example doesn't imply it having the ''Mage' archetype.

And lastly as always quoting my favourite post of all time: hang on everybody, let's interrupt a positive discussion about class balance so we can circle jerk lore.

LoreRiley wrote: »

sor·cer·er

ˈsôrs(ə)rər/

noun

a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard.

synonyms:wizard, witch, magician, warlock, enchanter,enchantress, magus; 

Either go magicka or hybrid

You asked for this:

Arena: A game where weapon and armor were limited by class, sorcerer's could use ANY weapon and could use leather or chain armor. But they could use ANY weapon just like all the warrior classes could. "They are those born with the potential of casting spells, but with no power to generate spell points internally" ie, they couldn't regenerate magicka. Tell me that's a pure caster. They are magicka batteries that used weapons heavily since they needed enemies to recharge their magicka off of.

Daggerfall: Still can't regenerate magicka on their own, try being a pure mage without that perk, and still have a decent array of weapons to pick from. They aren't a pure mage, that is another class entirely.

Morrowind: They lack the willpower attribute, keeping the theme of low magicka regen and have medium and heavy armor as minor skills, light armor is nowhere to be found. They are also proficient with bows and short swords to back up their casting, and before you say 'well be a hybrid', look at how well zos supports that build type.

Oblivion: Still low magicka regen, endurance is an attribute for them this time as they have heavy armor as their non-mage skill line. This is the closest they ever got to being the traditional 'mage' many seem to think they should be but they are still heavily focused on physical attributes.

Skyrim: Even in the game with no player classes the npcs still had them. And guess what, sorcerers still used heavy armor here, and with a throwback to morrowind and the earlier games with weapon skills.

That rant brought to you by someone who is tired of people trying to define sorcerer's while ignoring how they have been represented in past games, and who seem to want to believe that none of the other classes in this game aren't casters at their core.

Holycannoli wrote: »

Stam sorc is very underwhelming. It's basically a 2-hand or dual wield character with maybe one sorcerer ability slotted. You don't even slot sorcerer ultimates a lot of the time.

I've been saying these examples for a while:

- What about Bound Weapons as a stamina morph for some skills? Yes it would be a toggle but if powerful enough it could be worth using. Make another Mage's Fury morph that adds a stamina-based Bound Weapon that will seriously buff your equipped weapon (since a stam sorc never needs Mage's Fury). We already have Bound Armor and Bound Weapons are a staple of TES, except in ESO you don't want your armor replaced by the bound armor, just buffed.

- Lightning Splash can get some sort of earthquake stamina-based AOE physical damage morph.

- Rune Prison can get some sort of stamina-based damage reflection morph that damages whoever damages the sorcerer with a weapon attack (think Iron Maiden or Thorns from Diablo 2).

There's no reason why all skills can't have more than two morphs. They can theoretically add as many skills as they want to the game - just give skills more than one morph. Each and every skill in the game can have 10 morphs, there's no limit really except their imaginations and desire to add skills to the game.

I would be fine if defensive rune affected as many targets as dk flappy flap. If it went off like 5 times then stam sorcs might have some capacity to fight greater numbers with effectiveness.

Cathexis wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Stam sorc is very underwhelming. It's basically a 2-hand or dual wield character with maybe one sorcerer ability slotted. You don't even slot sorcerer ultimates a lot of the time.

I've been saying these examples for a while:

- What about Bound Weapons as a stamina morph for some skills? Yes it would be a toggle but if powerful enough it could be worth using. Make another Mage's Fury morph that adds a stamina-based Bound Weapon that will seriously buff your equipped weapon (since a stam sorc never needs Mage's Fury). We already have Bound Armor and Bound Weapons are a staple of TES, except in ESO you don't want your armor replaced by the bound armor, just buffed.

- Lightning Splash can get some sort of earthquake stamina-based AOE physical damage morph.

- Rune Prison can get some sort of stamina-based damage reflection morph that damages whoever damages the sorcerer with a weapon attack (think Iron Maiden or Thorns from Diablo 2).

There's no reason why all skills can't have more than two morphs. They can theoretically add as many skills as they want to the game - just give skills more than one morph. Each and every skill in the game can have 10 morphs, there's no limit really except their imaginations and desire to add skills to the game.

I would be fine if defensive rune affected as many targets as dk flappy flap. If it went off like 5 times then stam sorcs might have some capacity to fight greater numbers with effectiveness.

Def rune is one of the best skills available to stam sorc right now, excellent magicka dump and guaranteed hit as soon as cc immunity disappears.

In small scale scenarios your version would be an active cc for at least 15 seconds vs 2-3 opponents with a single button press. That means potentially the cost of 5 cc breaks for your opponents for the cost of 2k mag since it doesnt trigger on immune targets. Making it have 5 charges is insane... are we like nightblades or dks asking for insane buffs completely forgetting balance?

Def rune is one of the few examples of a very well balanced skill, not affected by power creep. Dont touch that.

Stam sorc only speaking who is running def rune & def stance instead of boundless & elude.

LoreRiley wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

LoreRiley wrote: »

sor·cer·er

ˈsôrs(ə)rər/

noun

a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard.

synonyms:wizard, witch, magician, warlock, enchanter,enchantress, magus; 

Either go magicka or hybrid

You asked for this:

Arena: A game where weapon and armor were limited by class, sorcerer's could use ANY weapon and could use leather or chain armor. But they could use ANY weapon just like all the warrior classes could. "They are those born with the potential of casting spells, but with no power to generate spell points internally" ie, they couldn't regenerate magicka. Tell me that's a pure caster. They are magicka batteries that used weapons heavily since they needed enemies to recharge their magicka off of.

Daggerfall: Still can't regenerate magicka on their own, try being a pure mage without that perk, and still have a decent array of weapons to pick from. They aren't a pure mage, that is another class entirely.

Morrowind: They lack the willpower attribute, keeping the theme of low magicka regen and have medium and heavy armor as minor skills, light armor is nowhere to be found. They are also proficient with bows and short swords to back up their casting, and before you say 'well be a hybrid', look at how well zos supports that build type.

Oblivion: Still low magicka regen, endurance is an attribute for them this time as they have heavy armor as their non-mage skill line. This is the closest they ever got to being the traditional 'mage' many seem to think they should be but they are still heavily focused on physical attributes.

Skyrim: Even in the game with no player classes the npcs still had them. And guess what, sorcerers still used heavy armor here, and with a throwback to morrowind and the earlier games with weapon skills.

That rant brought to you by someone who is tired of people trying to define sorcerer's while ignoring how they have been represented in past games, and who seem to want to believe that none of the other classes in this game aren't casters at their core.

When have ZOS ever cared abiut padt titles?

I'm only saying if someone says "Sorcerer has to be a mage because that's the definition" I will gladly say that in the universe this game takes place in that is not the case. So saying the class has to just deal with being made only for casters goes against 2 things, the world the game is in and the fundamental design of the game. Take your pick on which zos should flat out ignore in order to keep the class in the corner with no real options outside of it.

Afraid I'm on console so no numbers, just know that when the guild is struggling on any dungeons they tend to celebrate when I log in and ask me to help. Generally I 2 shot people on pvp and ic sewers each group of mobs take about 4 steel tornado spins.

EsoRecon wrote: »

Armann wrote: »

I love this

Yup, I like this to. And yet you will STILL have punks saying it's silly(says who? you? LAUGH) or against lore(umm, our own frickin stories etc have mages with melee weapons) or boo hoo it might hurt my Apex class. Nobody is asking for damage to the magicka sorc....so why are people that obviously don't care one way or the other, truly, coming in here or other threads and causing a ruckus. I mean really are people so dense as to think ZOS intended ALL THREE(sorry Temps...you were great once hehe) other classes to be good in both, but not Sorc? LOL. As if.

Armann wrote: »

LMFAO
Totally Agree.

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Afraid I'm on console so no numbers, just know that when the guild is struggling on any dungeons they tend to celebrate when I log in and ask me to help. Generally I 2 shot people on pvp and ic sewers each group of mobs take about 4 steel tornado spins.

Care to share your build? I assume your health and stam regen are pretty low with your high numbers in stam, crit, and weapon damage. I tried to go for high weapon damage/high stam, but felt a little too squishy without the high crit chance for good self heals through crit surge. Looks like you were able to balance it out. Just curious, thanks in advance.