Stam sorcs really need more DPS utilities

WarLord2905

I was not saying each class HAS to be built a certian way but unsure why anyone would expect a stam build to work as well as a on a magicka based class and vice versa. Sorceror is one of the best balanced classes because it is spec'd a certain way. If you start messing with that you end up with a class such as the templar that has no real strength except BoL because its trying to be good at everything but ends up only being good, rarely great.

Cody

Alucardo wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

well I was hit with a 14K instant frag while same sorc consistently stacked damage shields to 20K, so idk about lacking DPS in of itself:D but abilities? certainly.

A stam sorc??

no, a mana sorc. I am trying to say that the class overall does not need more DPS abilities, instead make a few more some stam morphs.

Acsvf

WarLord2905 wrote: »

on a magicka based class

Since when?

EsoRecon

3. Turn Crystal Blast into a stam version that slices an opponent with a crystal sword, inducing bleed damage over time. Can only be cast within melee range and scales off weapon damage/max stamina. This would actually make the Dark Magic tree useful for stam sorcs, which it's currently not. It also means we'll be able to make use of the Blood Magic and Persistence passives, which would be really nice.

These are just some ideas, and I'm getting tired of asking, but something needs to be done. @Wrobel you alive bruh? [/quote]

@Alucardo I really love this idea, my main is a stam sorc and I liked everything you said.

Bromburak

Try Argonian and equip Alchemy HA Set and your pressure is coming from drinking a potion when required.

Weng

WarLord2905 wrote: »

I totally agree aLi3nZ, why would ZOS wreck an entire MAGIC class for the few people who are playing a left field build. I saw another post saying Overload didnt hit as hard with a stam sorc..... its an ultimate that does magic damage in a class designed for magic users....... of course it doesnt hit as hard, no different to a magic based sorceror who uses werewolve as an ultimate that is based off weapon damage, guess what it is not going to hit as hard a stamina build will. Different builds are all good and fun to play around with but you cant expect them to be as good as someone who builds one specifically design to maximise what the class is all about.

This is not really true. The Overload ultimate deals SHOCK damage and as an ultimate scales well with weapon damage and max stamina, if you have magicka as higher stat it just takes the magicka and spell damage stats. The real disadvantage comes with CP, even though on the PTS it now scales correctly with elemental expert, but stamina builds want to invest in mighty.

Originally the sorc could be played hybrid and reached the highest weapon damage in game, which simply got nerfed, but the weapon damage buff is still there. The unmorphed spell Surge still has weapon damage (Major Brutality), useless for a magicka sorc.

The sorcerer class was not well-designed from the start, ZOS needed several overhauls just to make the magicka part viable, especially when everything went either stamina or magicka. That stamina builds feel lackluster now is simply by accident and not by design.

zoltarg

Yeah I think it makes sense that stam sorcs ended up like this because they had to balance magic first. It would be nice if ZOS could end up getting all classes as diverse as NB for STAM or MAG.

But of course I see no fair easy way to do this without adding a third or fourth morph on abilities.

AfkNinja

zoltarg wrote: »

Yeah I think it makes sense that stam sorcs ended up like this because they had to balance magic first. It would be nice if ZOS could end up getting all classes as diverse as NB for STAM or MAG.

But of course I see no fair easy way to do this without adding a third or fourth morph on abilities.

Fear not bretherin. As Stam Sorc is now at the bottom with Stam Templar you can be assured Stamina Sorc will get adjusted next! Dark Brotherhood will be the stamina sorcerer buffdate! Just watch!

wskill

All this calling for static, pronounced skills/subroles will end up making this game more boring, you realise that right? It kills innovation with all the set in stone-ness.

Let people figure out their own builds, stop trying to optimalize and metanize the remaining creative.

Alucardo

wskill wrote: »

All this calling for static, pronounced skills/subroles will end up making this game more boring, you realise that right? It kills innovation with all the set in stone-ness.

Let people figure out their own builds, stop trying to optimalize and metanize the remaining creative.

How is it stopping people from being "creative"? If you don't want to use the skill, then don't. It's that simple. Stop telling people they shouldn't be asking for changes to a class they primarily play. It's everyone's right to do so. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then get the hell out.

wskill

Alucardo wrote: »

wskill wrote: »

All this calling for static, pronounced skills/subroles will end up making this game more boring, you realise that right? It kills innovation with all the set in stone-ness.

Let people figure out their own builds, stop trying to optimalize and metanize the remaining creative.

How is it stopping people from being "creative"? If you don't want to use the skill, then don't. It's that simple. Stop telling people they shouldn't be asking for changes to a class they primarily play. It's everyone's right to do so. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then get the hell out.

When devs set roles in stone by making skilltrees one dimensional as a response to people who find these skills not fit their idea of a static role and lobby for it, it kills creativity.

Is this more clear to you?, Im not going to write it down even simpler.

So it goes both ways on the if you dont like the skill (the way it is) then dont use it and let it function as it does for non-optimal builds. Pulling everything into the optimal role-oriented is, as i said before extremely restrictive and will make any and all game boring. I have seen this happen to a list of games longer than your attentionspan could probably bother so i wont either.

Alucardo

wskill wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

wskill wrote: »

All this calling for static, pronounced skills/subroles will end up making this game more boring, you realise that right? It kills innovation with all the set in stone-ness.

Let people figure out their own builds, stop trying to optimalize and metanize the remaining creative.

How is it stopping people from being "creative"? If you don't want to use the skill, then don't. It's that simple. Stop telling people they shouldn't be asking for changes to a class they primarily play. It's everyone's right to do so. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then get the hell out.

When devs set roles in stone by making skilltrees one dimensional as a response to people who find these skills not fit their idea of a static role and lobby for it, it kills creativity.

Is this more clear to you?, Im not going to write it down even simpler.

Wrecking blow or ransack. Please tell me how that is creativity. Please stop with the lame arguments just for the sake of arguing.

Brrrofski

Alucardo wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam sorc is not in much worse of a place than stam Dk. Two stam dots isn't great to be fair.

Apart from a small shield with major mending, the most powerful stam dot in the game, the most powerful reflect skill in the game, the most powerful and only physical ultimate in the game, an ultimate that turns them into an undying tank with 100% armour penetration, then yeah, they are pretty similar.

Edit: I forgot to mention battle roar and helping hands. I'd like these too.

As far as stam morphs go I mean. Yeh, DKs have way better passives for stam. And two vey good ultimates. Not saying stam DKs aren't stronger. Multiple times I die only stam Sorc I think "could have killed them on my Dk".

I play both in pvp quite a lot, and both basically rely on wrecking blow spam. Which people hate. But until either class get's a stam morph of an instant damage skill, I'm going to have to keep swinging for the fences.

Alucardo

Brrrofski wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam sorc is not in much worse of a place than stam Dk. Two stam dots isn't great to be fair.

Apart from a small shield with major mending, the most powerful stam dot in the game, the most powerful reflect skill in the game, the most powerful and only physical ultimate in the game, an ultimate that turns them into an undying tank with 100% armour penetration, then yeah, they are pretty similar.

Edit: I forgot to mention battle roar and helping hands. I'd like these too.

As far as stam morphs go I mean. Yeh, DKs have way better passives for stam. And two vey good ultimates. Not saying stam DKs aren't stronger. Multiple times I die only stam Sorc I think "could have killed them on my Dk".

I play both in pvp quite a lot, and both basically rely on wrecking blow spam. Which people hate. But until either class get's a stam morph of an instant damage skill, I'm going to have to keep swinging for the fences.

I'm the same. Dying on my stam sorc too much causes me to log stam DK. I just feel so more confident on that class. Good heals, great sustain, small shield (while small it does stop initial critical attacks), powerful reflect, highest damaging and only physical ultimate in the game. They are amazing.
But on stam sorc, I feel so gimped, and no one should feel that way on any class. They really need some work, and they need it done now, especially with TG. The only thing we might have been able to boast was damage, but with 25% physical resistance now we almost hit like wet noodles compared to magicka burst. We have nothing to bring to the table and it breaks my heart.

wskill

Alucardo wrote: »

wskill wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

wskill wrote: »

All this calling for static, pronounced skills/subroles will end up making this game more boring, you realise that right? It kills innovation with all the set in stone-ness.

Let people figure out their own builds, stop trying to optimalize and metanize the remaining creative.

How is it stopping people from being "creative"? If you don't want to use the skill, then don't. It's that simple. Stop telling people they shouldn't be asking for changes to a class they primarily play. It's everyone's right to do so. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then get the hell out.

When devs set roles in stone by making skilltrees one dimensional as a response to people who find these skills not fit their idea of a static role and lobby for it, it kills creativity.

Is this more clear to you?, Im not going to write it down even simpler.

Wrecking blow or ransack. Please tell me how that is creativity.

When things need to be balanced, you apply downward balancing (upward has a too steep scale and will in the end require infinite tweaking, ive also seen this happen too much, especially in games like ultima online where upward scaling has even destroyed whole shards/servers)

I was talking about changing components and effects of skills instead of balancing numbers, thats a mistake. Balancing numbers is always a good idea when something is too powerful, but always downward. That means level the playingfield by making skills that are unmistakenly too powerful downward, never raise skills that compared to such skills feel weak upward.

I saw this was being done (the right way) on bow damage, i never played this game on pc, i have it on ps4 so i never played with a pre-balancing bow wielder but i have no complaints on its current damage whatsoever, in fact the harder it is to kill something the more fun. I cant speak for everyone but i for one am quickly done with a game that i breeze through enemies in, coming back to low level areas excluded.

Oh and eh, i dont use ransack, i use pierce armor on my tank mage, because its unnecessary to max armor when youre already spiking with the shield, besides.. if you can spare a slot you'd use absorb magic aswell anyway.
Atleast to me its a no brainer to use pierce armor because i wanted to catalyse and optimalize thundering pressence for a goal im not going to explain because otherwise ill be seeing 90% of the server walk around with it already, not even because it would be strong, but mostly because its functional considering a certain orientation. (doing the same with my other characters, for instance i have a nb archer (doesnt even have snipe or venom arrow) and a nb healer (good luck figuring that one out), and i refuse to explain how those work either , maybe when i made a vid with their completed versions)

Emma_Overload

Alucardo wrote: »

Please don't give me that flack about Thundering Presence. The AOE dot on that is laughable, the major expedition for 4 seconds is a joke and all for a high stamina cost. I don't know any stam sorcs who won't use Boundless Storm, the magicka version. So yeah, thanks for that cool utility ZOS. Much appreciated. Really blew our socks off.

We have a few passives. There's 2 decent ones, and I want to highlight them

Daedric Protection
This increases our stamina and health regeneration by 20% while a daedric summoning ability is slotted. We generally have no room for bound armaments because of all the generic weapon skills required to make our builds work, so some actually forfeit an ultimate to slot the atro just for this passive. Other stam sorcs don't even worry about it.

Expert Mage
Increases weapon damage by 1% for each sorcerer ability slotted. Wow, that sounds awesome! Well yeah it does, except stam sorcs rarely have many sorc abilities on their bar except for streak and boundless storm.

You need to remove the passive restrictions or give us another DD ability.
I was testing out DPS with a stam DK yesterday in a few duels, and I found it hard to keep up with him. His unstable flame was burning the entire time, I couldn't use my DoT (Poison Injection) because he'd just flap his wings, he has access to the only major mending in the game making his healing look like it was on steroids, and with a wrecking blow+take flight his ultimate easily hit for over 12k.

So what would be nice?
As I said, if you can't/won't remove the passive restrictions, I'd really like to see some more DPS utilities for us to use, to help keep the pressure on our targets.
Here's some suggestions Magicka sorcs are going to QQ about, but at this point, I really don't care.

1. A stamina morph of Lightning Splash OR Mages Fury that calls down lightning on the opponent, hitting them with a small amount of direct damage and applying a DoT similar to Unstable Flame, but lightning of course. Scales off weapon damage and max stamina. This would help keep pressure on opponents and give us a decent class stam option.
2. A stamina morph of Daedric Curse. Must be within melee range to cast so they can't just stand back shooting at people, which wouldn't make any sense. It would obviously scale off weapon damage and max stamina.
3. Turn Crystal Blast into a stam version that slices an opponent with a crystal sword, inducing bleed damage over time. Can only be cast within melee range and scales off weapon damage/max stamina. This would actually make the Dark Magic tree useful for stam sorcs, which it's currently not. It also means we'll be able to make use of the Blood Magic and Persistence passives, which would be really nice.

These are just some ideas, and I'm getting tired of asking, but something needs to be done. @Wrobel you alive bruh?

Ideas #2 and #3 could be combined into one: a bound "Daedric Sword" that floats in the air and then does an instant, spammable special attack whenever you re-activate it, kind of like how the new pets work. No one uses the non-Velocious version of Curse, so this would be a good candidate for a Stamina morph.

Forestd16b14_ESO

All classes need more stamina base stuff.

Darkonflare15

WarLord2905 wrote: »

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Sourcer is a magic based character, its pretty obvious from the start. Not sure why you feel entitled to have stamina based abilities and morphs for a mage class.

I'm not even sure how to reply to this without coming off as offensive

I think the rest of his opinions were dragon "knights" should only wear heavy armour and tank, templars only heal and nightblades must only dps, from behind, using daggers...

Some people just don't want to break away from fixed classes and roles.

I totally agree aLi3nZ, why would ZOS wreck an entire MAGIC class for the few people who are playing a left field build. I saw another post saying Overload didnt hit as hard with a stam sorc..... its an ultimate that does magic damage in a class designed for magic users....... of course it doesnt hit as hard, no different to a magic based sorceror who uses werewolve as an ultimate that is based off weapon damage, guess what it is not going to hit as hard a stamina build will. Different builds are all good and fun to play around with but you cant expect them to be as good as someone who builds one specifically design to maximise what the class is all about.

Really you should know all classes are magic classes.

Bromburak

Imo the Sorc it self needs a complete re design, including ressource pools.
His roots in Magic offer way to much benefits with no trade of.

At least i am honest, its a fact that Sorcs are not a glass canon, reality is we are highly protected mobile canons.

Stamina love or nerf is a total different story, first fix the class architecture.

Mojomonkeyman

I don`t feel gimped as stam sorc. It`s actually not as bad as some of you make it sound.

Peronally, I think we dont need a spamable stam dps ability, which would be just a class based equivalence to wpn skills already available.

Something a long the lines of magicka sorcerer gameplay of building up burst rotations with a stam curse/dot would make the gameplay much richer, imo. We have mobility, we have utility, we have cc and we have damage thanks to boosted max stam - thats not that bad to build up on and think of meaningful additions to give us more of both, identity and offensive maneuvers.

BullNetch

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I don`t feel gimped as stam sorc. It`s actually not as bad as some of you make it sound.

Peronally, I think we dont need a spamable stam dps ability, which would be just a class based equivalence to wpn skills already available.

Something a long the lines of magicka sorcerer gameplay of building up burst rotations with a stam curse/dot would make the gameplay much richer, imo. We have mobility, we have utility, we have cc and we have damage thanks to boosted max stam - thats not that bad to build up on and think of meaningful additions to give us more of both, identity and offensive maneuvers.

DKs have the fewest stam morphs but a lot of DKs go stam.

Sorcs need some stam friendlier passives. They're good, but you want great.

Sorcs get the stam morphs for armaments and thundering presence.

DKs get stam morphs for 2 fire based attacks.

The stam morphs for sorcs are more versatile.


What makes the DK great for stam builds are two passives...battle roar and helping hands.

What they need to do is mess around with a sorc passive or two, they don't have to do much.

I'm considering rolling a stam sorc and the reduced cost passives will likely make me slot undaunted and fighter's guild abilities. Dawnbreaker will be a cheaper ultimate. Werewolf would work well, too.

CP5

BullNetch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I don`t feel gimped as stam sorc. It`s actually not as bad as some of you make it sound.

Peronally, I think we dont need a spamable stam dps ability, which would be just a class based equivalence to wpn skills already available.

Something a long the lines of magicka sorcerer gameplay of building up burst rotations with a stam curse/dot would make the gameplay much richer, imo. We have mobility, we have utility, we have cc and we have damage thanks to boosted max stam - thats not that bad to build up on and think of meaningful additions to give us more of both, identity and offensive maneuvers.

DKs have the fewest stam morphs but a lot of DKs go stam.

Sorcs need some stam friendlier passives. They're good, but you want great.

Sorcs get the stam morphs for armaments and thundering presence.

DKs get stam morphs for 2 fire based attacks.

The stam morphs for sorcs are more versatile.


What makes the DK great for stam builds are two passives...battle roar and helping hands.

What they need to do is mess around with a sorc passive or two, they don't have to do much.

I'm considering rolling a stam sorc and the reduced cost passives will likely make me slot undaunted and fighter's guild abilities. Dawnbreaker will be a cheaper ultimate. Werewolf would work well, too.

Which class are you saying has the better stam morphs? DK's with the dot and major aoe armor debuff is helpful, thundering presence isn't really used and armaments is a toggle used only for its 8% max stamina and is just a boring buff that takes up space.

Teflondon75

BullNetch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I don`t feel gimped as stam sorc. It`s actually not as bad as some of you make it sound.

Peronally, I think we dont need a spamable stam dps ability, which would be just a class based equivalence to wpn skills already available.

Something a long the lines of magicka sorcerer gameplay of building up burst rotations with a stam curse/dot would make the gameplay much richer, imo. We have mobility, we have utility, we have cc and we have damage thanks to boosted max stam - thats not that bad to build up on and think of meaningful additions to give us more of both, identity and offensive maneuvers.

DKs have the fewest stam morphs but a lot of DKs go stam.

Sorcs need some stam friendlier passives. They're good, but you want great.

Sorcs get the stam morphs for armaments and thundering presence.

DKs get stam morphs for 2 fire based attacks.

The stam morphs for sorcs are more versatile.


What makes the DK great for stam builds are two passives...battle roar and helping hands. And Take Flight!

What they need to do is mess around with a sorc passive or two, they don't have to do much.

I'm considering rolling a stam sorc and the reduced cost passives will likely make me slot undaunted and fighter's guild abilities. Dawnbreaker will be a cheaper ultimate. Werewolf would work well, too.

Just had to add one bit. Which, I might add, all together makes them leaps and bounds above.

KatzMainTank

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@Wrobel

Stamina Sorc's need lovings too.

tennant94

Whats the appeal with running a stam sorc. A sorcerer is someone who uses magic anyway.

Teflondon75

tennant94 wrote: »

Whats the appeal with running a stam sorc. A sorcerer is someone who uses magic anyway.

Says who? Gandalf says "Hello"

The statement you just used could substitute in every other class. Watch, I'll show you.

Whats the appeal with running a stam nightblade. A nightblade is someone who uses magic anyway. Whats the appeal with running a stam templar. A templar is someone who uses magic anyway. Whats the appeal with running a stam dragonknight. A dragonknight is someone who uses magic anyway.

Funny how that works, they All use magic. They ALL started with ONLY magic morphs when ESO came out. It's only through people asking for stamina morphs that those classes became both really. The reason stamina sorcs are bottom barrel and weakest stamina spec(Arguably, stamplars Hello) is because of A: The silly notion that wizards/sorcerers/witches etc can Only perform magic....even in our own history stories are filled with "Magic" using type people using melee weapons as well. Witch leads into B: The class is just not played much outside of a small window when @FENGRUSH became a popular streamer and a lot of people really gave it a go. Being Not popular leads to less voice on the forums and elsewhere and so the devs have more important things to do like fixing every other class.

Fair? Not a chance. But that is how MMOs go. The more popular and played a class/spec is the faster it receives changes. Fair or not.

Acsvf

tennant94 wrote: »

Whats the appeal with running a stam sorc. A sorcerer is someone who uses magic anyway.

Yes, but in this game, not necessarily.

CP5

Teflondon75 wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Whats the appeal with running a stam sorc. A sorcerer is someone who uses magic anyway.

Says who? Gandalf says "Hello"

The statement you just used could substitute in every other class. Watch, I'll show you.

Whats the appeal with running a stam nightblade. A nightblade is someone who uses magic anyway. Whats the appeal with running a stam templar. A templar is someone who uses magic anyway. Whats the appeal with running a stam dragonknight. A dragonknight is someone who uses magic anyway.

Funny how that works, they All use magic. They ALL started with ONLY magic morphs when ESO came out. It's only through people asking for stamina morphs that those classes became both really. The reason stamina sorcs are bottom barrel and weakest stamina spec(Arguably, stamplars Hello) is because of A: The silly notion that wizards/sorcerers/witches etc can Only perform magic....even in our own history stories are filled with "Magic" using type people using melee weapons as well. Witch leads into B: The class is just not played much outside of a small window when @FENGRUSH became a popular streamer and a lot of people really gave it a go. Being Not popular leads to less voice on the forums and elsewhere and so the devs have more important things to do like fixing every other class.

Fair? Not a chance. But that is how MMOs go. The more popular and played a class/spec is the faster it receives changes. Fair or not.

Well put. Should I leave a general Elder Scrolls description of the sorcerer class in my signature from now on to help clarify this for people?

Humatiel

Q: So i'm a magicka user right?
A: Yes, everything about your class from the lore to the class tree is magicka based

Q: I want to play stamina though, can I do so on a magicka class?
A: Of course, in eso you can play how like. SO LONG AS YOU REALIZE IT WONT BE OPTIMAL.

Q: Why isn't my magicka based character getting enough stamina abilities? This must be your fault ZOS
A: We didn't give magicka based classes many stamina abilities because we have stamina classes

Q: but..but..but...I want to be OP and stamina and magicka and tank and CP is bad and why cant I one hit things?
A: Don't worry staminamagickatank class, let me find my carebear and we'll get right on fixing that for you, we wouldn't want you to have to learn to play within your characters focus or anything.

tennant94

@cp5 I meant lore wise a sorcerer is known for using magic but a nightblade for example doesn't imply it having the ''Mage' archetype.