Thx for great templar changes

Artjuh90 · February 2016

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

why the hell is everyone ganging up on Feng Rush? If you truly believe he was the catalyst that caused the change and that the Devs listen to streamers exclusively, they would have buffed stam sorc ages ago. 3 of every 4 stam sorcs are running his builds and he has talked about the needed changes to that class several times. If you think his opinion carries that much weight, then why have they not done anything to the improve stamina builds in general and stam sorcs in particular? There have been numerous posts by him calling out the devs to do something about the lack of choices for stamina builds. So you think they listen to one post about Templars and ignore every other post about stam builds?

so disagreeing is ganging up now? i do agree some people are bit harsh but i disagree with him and i explain why. i don't call that ganging up on him. i call that opening a discussion and last i checked he said he wanted to actually do that

SneaK · February 2016

The nerf to our cleanse is more significant than the BoL nerf in PvP. Anyone who doesn't recognize that doesn't Templar.

That's my big complaint, ZOS made our cleanse weak, and didn't buff our shield. Magplar rolling in light armor is now an instant kill to a meteor/frag combo.

Dakrana_Thrazvoth · February 2016

And why not for the next update, delete all heal ablilties in pvp ?

SirDopey · February 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lol - getting blame for something I didnt ask for. Nice

@FENGRUSH Actually you did. And all it took to find it was a simple google search.

For example in this video @2:02:15 is the discussion where you back up King Richard on the call for Templar breath of life heal nerfs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slt4CZOk67g

And on this forum post this is what you wrote, "Nerf breath of life everything will be OK then!" http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236152/get-rid-of-templar-class

Or how about this forum post where you also request for BOL nerf multiple times. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241555/los-on-heals

The list goes on for days on posts you have written requesting breath of life nerfs.However, I do not feel like spending anymore time on writing more sources.

Well FENGRUSH, congratulations you finally got your wish and more future 1 vs. 10+ videos for your Twitch stream.

Lol - so a discussion where were talking about groups with numbers outlasting people and slamming heals is terrible gameplay is calling for nerfs to templars.

The next quote is a troll post so - maybe ZOS read that troll post and took it to the drawing board.

If you really think they did the things I suggested stam sorc would actually have had changes in the last few patches and AOE caps would have some change. Stop whining.

Lol, Someone is salty they got caught lying. You should have stayed quiet. Now people who didn't even know who you were before this just think you're full of BS.

Caught lying? Cut my clip explaining this more in depth - but not sure where you see lies at in the last posts. Take time to understand and post your point of view if you want. Otherwise you just trolling and have no added value to the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HJe5FjBIdo

All you had to do was interrupt your wrecking blow spamming for a few moments and apply a heal debuff, or better yet, pop werewolf so you can spam apply a heal debuff. At that point she would have died. You did the same thing to one of my groups a while back. You rushed in, dropped a negate on us of all things, wrecking blow spammed one of our healers, and then complained about not being able to wrecking blow spam them to death.

Also, this is nothing like fighting someone that is afk. This is a coordinated group that runs together all the time and you are attacking their main healer. They are in Teamspeak and are most likely calling out for people to heal her.

Haha yeah but this is Fengrush and his group, no organized 12 man group should be able to out class 4 WB spammers lead by him....

Yes, I'm still salty as hell about the BoL nerf - but with a few tweaks I'll be able to make my heals far stronger than what they are now and I'll just be running around Troll Healing groups to **** off all the QQ's. You think healing is OP now, lol just you wait....

FENGRUSH · February 2016

SirDopey wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lol - getting blame for something I didnt ask for. Nice

@FENGRUSH Actually you did. And all it took to find it was a simple google search.

For example in this video @2:02:15 is the discussion where you back up King Richard on the call for Templar breath of life heal nerfs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slt4CZOk67g

And on this forum post this is what you wrote, "Nerf breath of life everything will be OK then!" http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236152/get-rid-of-templar-class

Or how about this forum post where you also request for BOL nerf multiple times. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241555/los-on-heals

The list goes on for days on posts you have written requesting breath of life nerfs.However, I do not feel like spending anymore time on writing more sources.

Well FENGRUSH, congratulations you finally got your wish and more future 1 vs. 10+ videos for your Twitch stream.

Lol - so a discussion where were talking about groups with numbers outlasting people and slamming heals is terrible gameplay is calling for nerfs to templars.

The next quote is a troll post so - maybe ZOS read that troll post and took it to the drawing board.

If you really think they did the things I suggested stam sorc would actually have had changes in the last few patches and AOE caps would have some change. Stop whining.

Lol, Someone is salty they got caught lying. You should have stayed quiet. Now people who didn't even know who you were before this just think you're full of BS.

Caught lying? Cut my clip explaining this more in depth - but not sure where you see lies at in the last posts. Take time to understand and post your point of view if you want. Otherwise you just trolling and have no added value to the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HJe5FjBIdo

All you had to do was interrupt your wrecking blow spamming for a few moments and apply a heal debuff, or better yet, pop werewolf so you can spam apply a heal debuff. At that point she would have died. You did the same thing to one of my groups a while back. You rushed in, dropped a negate on us of all things, wrecking blow spammed one of our healers, and then complained about not being able to wrecking blow spam them to death.

Also, this is nothing like fighting someone that is afk. This is a coordinated group that runs together all the time and you are attacking their main healer. They are in Teamspeak and are most likely calling out for people to heal her.

Haha yeah but this is Fengrush and his group, no organized 12 man group should be able to out class 4 WB spammers lead by him....

Yes, I'm still salty as hell about the BoL nerf - but with a few tweaks I'll be able to make my heals far stronger than what they are now and I'll just be running around Troll Healing groups to **** off all the QQ's. You think healing is OP now, lol just you wait....

So yea again... 4 DPS pouring damage into someone laying on the ground and them being healed through damage != 12 man group should be out classed by 4 WB.

Youre not here to make a logical argument though - just here to argue. You dont need to amp spell power or damage either, its just about spamming BOL and resource management. And in that case, Ive pretty much got the best build for it already on my templar so.. have at it buddy.

Destyran · February 2016

Praeficere wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Well, all they changed was now we have to spam BoL even more if things suddenly go south for a group. I guess that's technically more active, but I fail to see how it's more meaningful.

To be fair, there is no direct equivalent to BoL on a DK Healer, yet nothing is really spammed unless it's a Trial.

Except dks have new mitigation for trials. We will be "hearing magma 1, go!" alot and igneous sheild wil trinimacs and the resto staff tree will make dk a good healer.

nemisan · February 2016

I find it hard to imagine how any party of 4 DD can whine about chipping a nail while button mashing and not being able to kill a toon in a party with healers...its a MMO, healers tend to heal and good ones do it very well...learn to pick your targets better

...and if zos did nerf BoL because of this vid, then really? shame on you !

Inarre · February 2016

SneaK wrote: »

The nerf to our cleanse is more significant than the BoL nerf in PvP. Anyone who doesn't recognize that doesn't Templar.

That's my big complaint, ZOS made our cleanse weak, and didn't buff our shield. Magplar rolling in light armor is now an instant kill to a meteor/frag combo.

I only see the cleanse change a positive.

avelopolcakb14a_ESO · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lol - getting blame for something I didnt ask for. Nice

@FENGRUSH Actually you did. And all it took to find it was a simple google search.

For example in this video @2:02:15 is the discussion where you back up King Richard on the call for Templar breath of life heal nerfs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slt4CZOk67g

And on this forum post this is what you wrote, "Nerf breath of life everything will be OK then!" http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236152/get-rid-of-templar-class

Or how about this forum post where you also request for BOL nerf multiple times. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241555/los-on-heals

The list goes on for days on posts you have written requesting breath of life nerfs.However, I do not feel like spending anymore time on writing more sources.

Well FENGRUSH, congratulations you finally got your wish and more future 1 vs. 10+ videos for your Twitch stream.

Lol - so a discussion where were talking about groups with numbers outlasting people and slamming heals is terrible gameplay is calling for nerfs to templars.

The next quote is a troll post so - maybe ZOS read that troll post and took it to the drawing board.

If you really think they did the things I suggested stam sorc would actually have had changes in the last few patches and AOE caps would have some change. Stop whining.

Lol, Someone is salty they got caught lying. You should have stayed quiet. Now people who didn't even know who you were before this just think you're full of BS.

Caught lying? Cut my clip explaining this more in depth - but not sure where you see lies at in the last posts. Take time to understand and post your point of view if you want. Otherwise you just trolling and have no added value to the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HJe5FjBIdo

Your entire point is moot due to the fact that your team was outnumbered and the rest of your group was unable to put pressure on the multiple templars that were healing their team. If you had been putting pressures on the healers preventing them from healing their target you'd have a point. The problem is due to excessive group size and a lack of an even playing field. You're asking for balance in an impossible to balance one sided situation. What they need to do is have active battle zones with a limit on number of players in individual world cells.

Additionally, their group composition was mostly templars, whereas yours was mostly pure DPS as you state in your video. What did you expect to happen when the other groups sustain was at the exact other end of the spectrum of yours? That they WOULDN'T be able to whittle your team down?

david.haypreub18_ESO · February 2016

It's funny: it seems ZOS listen to those calling for nerfs to Templars a lot more than they listen to those calling for buffs and fixes. This has been a pattern since launch. Templars have only gotten worse, and are in a rather terrible position now. And the nerfs just keep coming.

Mr.Hmm · February 2016

Main Reason BoL got nerfed:

PvPers whined way too much to ZoS because Templars kept trolling them by denying kills.

Simple enough for you(Whoever that "you" is)?

AOECAPS · February 2016

How they nerfed BOL was another poor execution strategy from Wrobel and friends. There should have been a LOS check added and nothing more. But that is a logical balance to the best burst heal in the game instead they just lowered the number 1. I think healing dungeons might be a little bit tough now because of that.i don't believe good healers will have an issue and will adapt its the healers that only used BOL that will have issues. I have a pal not happy with the nerf more so because us Templars don't know what a buff is by definition TBH we should be at the Mara shrine with nerf with how many times we have hooked up with him or her. I truly believe Wrobel doesn't know how to balance or fix imbalances in the game instead he throws darts at a board and goes off of that

Iove · February 2016

AOECAPS wrote: »

TBH we should be at the Mara shrine with nerf

AHAHA crying with laughter

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Iove wrote: »

Apparently all the other classes need to be just as good at healing, although we are the only ones with our own healing skill line. Ok then...........

Are Templars not calling for Nightblade and Sorcerer level damage and mobility.

Granted a small damage buff is in order with fixing power so they work, and my standard un Nerf Sun Shield feel free to ignore @ZoS I know making this a working game is not in your job description.

I'd be personally happy with dps remaining status quo, and them buffing mitigation more on Templars, but I realize there are some fireball flinging Templars out there that want to have a job.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

Kevmeister wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Kevmeister wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Kevmeister wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

Iove wrote: »

Your point? Templar was always meant to be a healer, Dk was not. The fact they are even comparable now just shows how far Templars have been hammered into the ground.

Each class is intended to, and is able to, fulfill every role.

If so, then give Templars Stealth skills like NightBlades, or give us Daedric Summoning like Sorcerors do, because we should also have pets to tank/side DPS. Your point makes no sense.

Templar is definitely the dedicated healing class for tougher situations. I have played my Templar as a DD for most PvE scenarios, and while most classes have shown their healing capabilities, Templar still outshines them and makes them invaluable to a dungeon run, which makes the whole run become smoother.

Now Templars can't heal for freck, and our DPS is marginal to craptastic even with the new changes (specifically Stam, Magplars seem to have its ups and downs with the new buffs to Dawn's Wrath abilities).

But getting back on point, I sense that you have Templar envy, or you haven't run Templar to its fullest capabilities, or know this class by heart on what makes seriously underwhelming.

Please Templars are still going to heal better than other classes you still do have passives that increase your healing and rezing. You lose an extra heal to one person which is a burst heal while night blades lose a hot to an extra person. It seems they are balancing the amount of things going to the server to improve balance. If an healer need bol to complete content they were not that good of a healer to begin with since other class healers can heal harder content as well and now they can do it better with some new tools. Templars are still going to heal content at the same pace as they do now. Maybe they can use some of their other skills now.

No, just no.

Have you seen all the Templar changes in regards to healing? No? Let me break it down for you:

Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.

A summary of this skill is; heals 1 less, overall effective healing drops by 25%.

Oh, so our passives grant us Major Mending now? Joy! Not:

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

Note the bolded part. That means, we are static, locked to the location of where those skills are in order to make our healing somewhat close to what it is now. What this translate to is:

1. We have to stay put at most times to fully utilise all resources in order to keep the party alive.
2. Moving to a new location because most if not all tougher PvE situations have AoE-filled mechanics means we have to recast the other skills. What that translates to is; more resource needed = more time needed = lower/lesser HPS (in case you're wondering, that's Healing per Second)

Also, 1 less target to heal even if it means healing 2 other targets for more means the likelier chance of having to resurrect the other player because BoL was affecting 3 out of 4 players at a time, and keeping the other guy alive.

BoL has always been a panic button for most Templars, and yes, we do use other skills to help out in the situation; be it for resource return, DPS, or other sources of healing such as the Resto Staff skills.

But now, we have to solely focus on healing, and stuck to a static position to do that which is utter ridiculous.

I have to say the change to ritual is welcome. Now, instead of your whole team being static and stuck in your stupid tiny bubble, you can recast your ritual anywhere you like and still provide excellent group heals.

To me, this is a plus, not a minus, and anyone who stands inside their bubble and gets run over cuz "omg static".... Smh. If anything this change grants us more freedom to move. At the cost of more mana, yes, but still, freedom.

Not everyone runs with Ritual. I usually go for Combat Prayer, BoL, and Mutagen, with the other 2 skill slots situation. Both the Rituals (HR and PR) are poor simply because it isn't competitive in terms of HpS, when you have better healing skills even from a Resto Staff.

It's not just Cleansing Ritual but Rune Focus as well. This is the Channeled Focus that nearly every Templar has on their bar for magicka regen. Yes, the radius of Channeld Focus is small, but you still get +25% heals for 4 seconds after leaving it. And that is just awesome. It is soooo cheap to cast anways. And you can run over it again for another 4 seconds.

Now you have to remember that this is now a Major Mending buff, which was decreased to +25% from +30%. And that seems like a bit of a nerf. But being a the Mending buff, we Templars now get +25% heals to any Healing, including Resto Staff heals. That's +25% bonus to Healing Springs, Combat Prayer, Rapid Regen, etc.

The only thing I wonder now is if with BoL only affecting one other player, it might be better to use Honor the Dead. Is the secondary heal going to be worth the Magicka cost?

I'd like to point out that our baseline heals were passively boosted originally. Its basically buff to a prior nerf, but I agree this is an improvement. I do think the balance scales ought to tip a bit in our favor to pay us back for having to stand in place (or near location) to accomplish things. The class itself could also stand for some responsiveness, and I'm really hoping they just recode Toppling charge into a Vosh Raka-like leap.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

@FENGRUSH

I don't blame you for the change to BOL, I blame the devs. You didn't ask for a two target heal, you asked for the direct 100% strength heal portion to be nerfed.

"They should probably address heals that cover entire health bars and are instant.
It is that way - that is why BoL/healing needs to be revisited. Healing should not outdo damage."

However, I do absolutely believe the devs decided to nerf us again due to PVP players complaining about not being able to burst people down when a healer is around. You are part of this crowd and as such I do think you influenced their decision. It's not fair to directly correlate the change to you however.

It does suck though that BOL is nerfed so hard but the cost is the same. HtD will be my go to from now on.

P.S. I still do not agree with you that a DPS should be able to out scale a healer 1:1.

For me its not outdoing people that are CC breaking and buffing keeping things going on their end too. If someone is spent, laying on the ground, take that templar for example in the video shown. If that templar was AFK, and me and another were trying to kill, we wouldnt have killed that templar who was AFK in the bathroom taking a dump because you just cant burst it. And alone? Not even the slightest chance. Why cant you kill a player thats AFK due solely to healing? Pretty much the first patch this has happened. Before healing was a SUPPLEMENT to survival, you had to do things on your end too. Healing outdoing DPS is pretty questionable. Its literally saying you should be able to keep people AFK alive.

This whole conversation wouldn't bother me so much if Blazing Shield weren't such a steaming pile of cow poo. I use to be able to use this ability to tank in a real way, as a nice hard counter to DK's who would try to talon/whip me. It was nice to play as a juggernaut on the field, running amok slamming people with my shield and turtling up. My damage was awful, but the amount of cc, annoyance, and debuffing I caused was wonderful. I was the guy who charged in and made it easier for my team to mop up the other team. I could kill people that way too, but it took time and wasn't easy mode instant shot. It was never like that. I miss those days, and the design changes they have opted to go with continue to strip the tank role away from Templars in a very direct manner. Looking at some of the Nightblade changes I'm worried for their tanking trajectory as well.

SirDopey · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lol - getting blame for something I didnt ask for. Nice

@FENGRUSH Actually you did. And all it took to find it was a simple google search.

For example in this video @2:02:15 is the discussion where you back up King Richard on the call for Templar breath of life heal nerfs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slt4CZOk67g

And on this forum post this is what you wrote, "Nerf breath of life everything will be OK then!" http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236152/get-rid-of-templar-class

Or how about this forum post where you also request for BOL nerf multiple times. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241555/los-on-heals

The list goes on for days on posts you have written requesting breath of life nerfs.However, I do not feel like spending anymore time on writing more sources.

Well FENGRUSH, congratulations you finally got your wish and more future 1 vs. 10+ videos for your Twitch stream.

Lol - so a discussion where were talking about groups with numbers outlasting people and slamming heals is terrible gameplay is calling for nerfs to templars.

The next quote is a troll post so - maybe ZOS read that troll post and took it to the drawing board.

If you really think they did the things I suggested stam sorc would actually have had changes in the last few patches and AOE caps would have some change. Stop whining.

Lol, Someone is salty they got caught lying. You should have stayed quiet. Now people who didn't even know who you were before this just think you're full of BS.

Caught lying? Cut my clip explaining this more in depth - but not sure where you see lies at in the last posts. Take time to understand and post your point of view if you want. Otherwise you just trolling and have no added value to the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HJe5FjBIdo

All you had to do was interrupt your wrecking blow spamming for a few moments and apply a heal debuff, or better yet, pop werewolf so you can spam apply a heal debuff. At that point she would have died. You did the same thing to one of my groups a while back. You rushed in, dropped a negate on us of all things, wrecking blow spammed one of our healers, and then complained about not being able to wrecking blow spam them to death.

Also, this is nothing like fighting someone that is afk. This is a coordinated group that runs together all the time and you are attacking their main healer. They are in Teamspeak and are most likely calling out for people to heal her.

Haha yeah but this is Fengrush and his group, no organized 12 man group should be able to out class 4 WB spammers lead by him....

Yes, I'm still salty as hell about the BoL nerf - but with a few tweaks I'll be able to make my heals far stronger than what they are now and I'll just be running around Troll Healing groups to **** off all the QQ's. You think healing is OP now, lol just you wait....

So yea again... 4 DPS pouring damage into someone laying on the ground and them being healed through damage != 12 man group should be out classed by 4 WB.

Youre not here to make a logical argument though - just here to argue. You dont need to amp spell power or damage either, its just about spamming BOL and resource management. And in that case, Ive pretty much got the best build for it already on my templar so.. have at it buddy.

I wasn't arguing, more stating a point. A point which you yourself seem to be pretty good at making clear, that you honestly feel you're entitled to come out on the better end of a 4 v 12 encounter as per your video.

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into your whole "4 men laying into someone on the ground that's separated from their group" story. Please, everyone that PVPs knows how the towers in the keeps work, the other healers in the group might as well have been standing directly next to you guys. Given you were out numbered 3 to 1, that the other group appeared very well organized and had a large proportion of Templars, yeah - they should have been able to out heal your DPS. Now, if this was in the sewers and you'd dragged her into another room or was out in the open world and you dragged her away from the other's range, then it would have been a different result. But you weren't, you were laying into her below a group of healers whose heals have always been able to go through the floor boards. Nothing in the new patch will stop a repeat of what occurred in the above video, nothing....

I'm sorry, but I really think you've hand picked a very specific battle, where in all honesty your group probably didn't lay out the best strategy and are using this cherry picked video to defend your cause.

Eletheia · February 2016

Two things I have noticed about this post;

1) Vigor is NOT exclusively a Templar heal, so why is it getting grouped as such?
2) No one has mentioned that Templars are more 'squishy' since the first set of nerfs because they do not get the benefits of their heals until near the end of the ritual whereas they used to get some of the benefit right away, which is the reason why they started to rely on the breath of life.

And, yes, Templar healers are forced to stand in one place while they heal. Not very good in the pvp world when the ultimate locks you into place for a minimum of 5 seconds.

Rally cannot be relied on because the other Templars running it are in competition for 'resources'.

Dedicated healing Templars are supposed to be the healers of the group. They are the medics. While other classes have heals as well, those are supposed to be First Aid treatment until the medic can get there. This is supposed to be an army vs army game, not a one person vs one person game. Each class was supposed to be designed that it had flaws that other classes were supposed to counterbalance. That was what was supposed to make this a 'team' game. I think the people who are wanting to be soloists have lost sight of what this game was originally intended and advertised as. The arguments that I saw for 'individuals should be taking care of themselves' flies in the face of that fact. Then why should Zenimax bother making it possible for players to get into groups of 24? Why don't we just run around Cyrodiil as individuals, take care of ourselves, and not bother with objectives? That seems to be the crux of what some of the people in this thread are saying.