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Meteor
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Even though I think meteor should still be reflectable because it adds at least a small element of skill and diversity in reaction, I haven't slotted a reflect since I was solo over 9 months ago, and though I try to purify meteors, I also block at the same time because that crap hardly ever worked in even minor lag anyway. If the fall damage from meteor is not fixed, this will be a clustereff though.1 -
Karamis_Vimardon✭✭✭✭
PC NA
Karamis Vimardon, DC Templar (Magplar)
Netara, DC Nightblade (Stamblade)
Karamis, DC Sorc (Magicka)
Hãderus, EP Templar (Healbot)
Mr Twinkle-Toes, DC DK (Tank)
game
noun: game;
plural noun: games
1. a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
2. an activity that one engages in for amusement.0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
A single Meteor doesn't hit hard. It's when an entire zerg casts 12 at the same time. It also has the side effect of breaking the server. We have known this for a long time and it's even been tested and proven. Once DK's and sword and board started reflecting them, people started using other things and it improved (slightly).It doesn't even hit that hard.
Again it's not just the damage from one, it's also the snare that it gives. You get hit with a couple of those as a stampeding zerg approaches and it's pretty much over for a lot of people.PosternHouse wrote: »I don't know what's so hard about just blocking it.:trollin:1 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A single Meteor doesn't hit hard. It's when an entire zerg casts 12 at the same time. It also has the side effect of breaking the server. We have known this for a long time and it's even been tested and proven. Once DK's and sword and board started reflecting them, people started using other things and it improved (slightly).It doesn't even hit that hard.
Again it's not just the damage from one, it's also the snare that it gives. You get hit with a couple of those as a stampeding zerg approaches and it's pretty much over for a lot of people.PosternHouse wrote: »I don't know what's so hard about just blocking it.
I've been hit with far worse Ulti bombs than meteors. Animation cancelled dawnbreakers and take flights are far better damage in unison. Agree about the lag spike though.0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
MountainHound✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »These changes were made to force people to either spend more into health, use sets with defensive bonuses, and to counter zergs
As Fengrush put it:
If I open up on a ball group by suprise I should be able to kill them
Know what that means? If your 24 man is taking a flag and my 6-8 man catches you by suprise and meteors you times 8 and proxy det whatever, I should kill you
On live this isn't possible, on pts it will be
The changes to proxy det, meteor, and siege were directly aimed at ball groups and zergs.
This was Wrobels way of sorta giving guys like Fengrush what they wanted without removing AOE caps
Make no mistake small groups like Fengrush will have an easier time busting these groups then it is on live especially in open world as smart siege will now be viable and charging a choke or breach will be suicide, long overdue. Meteor is just icing on the cake.
Key word there is "suprise". If I am ready to react... O wait there is *** all I can do about it.
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A single Meteor doesn't hit hard. It's when an entire zerg casts 12 at the same time. It also has the side effect of breaking the server. We have known this for a long time and it's even been tested and proven. Once DK's and sword and board started reflecting them, people started using other things and it improved (slightly).It doesn't even hit that hard.
Again it's not just the damage from one, it's also the snare that it gives. You get hit with a couple of those as a stampeding zerg approaches and it's pretty much over for a lot of people.PosternHouse wrote: »I don't know what's so hard about just blocking it.
I've been hit with far worse Ulti bombs than meteors. Animation cancelled dawnbreakers and take flights are far better damage in unison. Agree about the lag spike though.
That really is my main concern. The snare kind of sucks too.:trollin:0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on February 9, 2016 8:49PM:trollin:2 -
MountainHound✭✭✭✭I mean, I am probably going Magicka DK next patch if they are left how they are on the PTS and if changes stay, I will use Meteor. Just seems ZoS' way to fix lag is to try and kill everyone instantly so everyone is stuck in load screens / logging back in easing the server load.2
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DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭The dragon fire scales and defensive posture will no longer reflect meteors. Purify will no longer purge the meteor but you can still dark cloak it... See balanced... Urrrppp. You will need to block it so just do it. I want to go on record saying it will be meteors incoming Cyrodil the day the patch hits. There will be more meteors in Cyrodil than ppl playing... Just wait.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
Force-Siphon✭✭✭✭RIP ball groupsThe one and only Force Siphon - PVP Sorc NA
1 man zerg
twitch.tv/forcesiphon0 -
PosternHouse✭✭✭✭I've read quite a bit of anti-"ball group" rhetoric in this thread and I find it a bit laughable. (Not talking about you in specific Force Siphon, you just happened to be the most recent post lol.)
People are going to go from complaining about so-called ball groups to complaining about organized groups of 24 in general. Large, organized groups of 24 who make tactics and builds assuming a max group of 24 will just find another way to effectively prove 24 >16,12,10, or whatever number is in vogue with the cool kids. Then there will be feigned outrage and moar nerfz because [crying sounds]. I feel like this community is 2/3 composed of adult toddlers and 1/3 actual toddlers.
The groups will adapt. Those who dislike the former "ball groups" will move on to the next thing to complain about ... because it's easier to cry for mom and dad to change the rules of the game rather than adapt to the game.Edited by PosternHouse on February 9, 2016 10:38PM5 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Force-Siphon wrote: »RIP ball groups
It's this kind of mentality that makes me want to run 24 DKs all with magma armor or 24 sorcs with a pet army big enough to make the aoe cap gods wince. Do DKs and sorcs start getting calls for nerfs when I win fights with silly group comps like that? the rhetoric has been almost as big a problem as the lag in pvp, almost.3 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭This is a pretty obvious dumbing down change, I lost the energy to even bother any further though.
A projectile is any object thrown into space (empty or not) by the exertion of a force.[1] Although any object in motion through space (for example a thrown baseball) may be called a projectile, the term more commonly refers to a ranged weapon
What the **** are you even talking about? Let's not argue semantics of a word in a video game, meteor is a projectile. In terms of a healthy and balanced game, we should have the ability to reflect or at the very least dodge this ultimate, NB can still cloak and Templar can still cleanse so WTF. You take a lot of thought out of the game by removing this function.
idk if anyone said this already, but templars can no longer purge this ultimate, or any projectile for that matter.Edited by Shelgon on February 10, 2016 12:26AMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »The Meteor Change was a long time coming, it never should have been reflect able to begin with.- Blazing Spear - Toss a Spear into the sky that rains down on Enemies and creates a ground AOE and stuns.
- Lighting Flood - Calls a Bolt of Lighting out of the Sky that creates a ground based AOE
- Arrow Barrage - Shoots an Arrow into the Sky that creates an ground based AOE
- Meteor - Call a rock that falls from the sky that creates a ground based AOE and a knockback
Meteor acts, looks, and behaves EXACTLY like Blazing Spear, Lighting Flood, and Arrow Barrage yet none of them are reflectable yet Meteor should be? Thats rich.
Im actually happy that finally ZOS is being "Consistent" about their game that All ground based AOE are finally classified as ground based AOE and not reflectable...Meteor being reflectable was as ridiculous as the Werewolf Howl being reflectable....
Absorb Magic from the Sword and Board line still absorbs Meteor AFAIK, so its not like counters don't still exist. Also it can be dodged if timed correctly (requires a fast block cancel into dodge, but with practice its dodgeable, I have seen people dodge it on the PTS and on live)
Ball of Lighting will still absorb it too if timed correctly. I don't think ground based AOE, let alone an Ultimate should be reflectable. No other ground based AOE that has something fall from the sky is reflectable, so Meteor should follow that paradigm.
However, I will say the Knockback on Meteor should be removed since its no longer reflectable. That would probably be fair.
Negative, it does not act exactly like the other mentioned skills because the other mentioned skills require you to target the area you are casting vs just targeting a player.Rhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole0 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »These changes were made to force people to either spend more into health, use sets with defensive bonuses, and to counter zergs
As Fengrush put it:
If I open up on a ball group by suprise I should be able to kill them
Know what that means? If your 24 man is taking a flag and my 6-8 man catches you by suprise and meteors you times 8 and proxy det whatever, I should kill you
On live this isn't possible, on pts it will be
The changes to proxy det, meteor, and siege were directly aimed at ball groups and zergs.
This was Wrobels way of sorta giving guys like Fengrush what they wanted without removing AOE caps
Make no mistake small groups like Fengrush will have an easier time busting these groups then it is on live especially in open world as smart siege will now be viable and charging a choke or breach will be suicide, long overdue. Meteor is just icing on the cake.
No ... The 6-8 man catching a 24 and blowing them up directly correlates to the aoe cap and not changing an ulti to being unreflectableRhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downsideVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downside
Don't get it, there's no downside to Prox Det either. Or any other ultimate.0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downside
Don't get it, there's no downside to Prox Det either. Or any other ultimate.
Meteor has literally zero downside without reflect. Range. High Burst. Tracks the target. AoE. Knockback/stun. Leaves a high damage dot. Snare. RETURNS ULTI. Fire damage.
Like, holy sheeeeet.Edited by Satiar on February 10, 2016 7:34AMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downside
Don't get it, there's no downside to Prox Det either. Or any other ultimate.
Downside to prox det: you need to be in melee range
Downside to inevitable det: cast time
Templar Ults:- Downside to nova, both you and the enemy need to be inside it to be useful. It also locks you and allies to a specific and well telegraphed location for opponents to focus on. You need someone else to synergize it for it to do any significant dmg.
- Downside to empowering sweep, slotting it.
- Downside to remembrance, you cannot move for 4 seconds and announce to the world that you're a healer.
Sorcerer Ults:- Downside to atro, it's immobile, does relatively low dmg on its own
- Downside to overload, can be reflected, easy to spot and react to
DK Ults:- Who are we kidding DKs have friggin awesome ults -_-
NB Ults:- Downside to Soul Harvest, single target, can be dodged
- Downside to Veil, small radius, locks you to a specific location for it to be effective
Dawnbreaker: downside is that the cone can miss pretty easily and a lot of the dmg can be purged off quickly
There are certainly downsides to ultimates. Most ults require you to be within melee-ish range of your enemies/allies and/or are ground targeted. Meteor can be cast safely from range and acts as a heat seeking missile now, there's no risk of you dropping your meteor in the wrong spot like you can with a nova so long as you have the correct person targeted. For ults like bats/soul siphon/etc., you need to be up in their face for them to be of any use and at that point you're committed and have a difficult time disengaging compared to being at max range and dropping an empowered meteor with 14 other people.
Edited by Zheg on February 10, 2016 7:41AM2 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downside
Don't get it, there's no downside to Prox Det either. Or any other ultimate.
Meteor has literally zero downside without reflect. Range. High Burst. Tracks the target. AoE. Knockback/stun. Leaves a high damage dot. Snare. RETURNS ULTI. Fire damage.
Like, holy sheeeeet.
Oh yeah, but Take Flight does the same. I just hope the reflect change gets rid of more lag.
Edit: Not exactly the same but similar. I don't mind it not being able to be reflected, no other ultimate can be. And 20 ultis dumped on a group will wipe them regardless of which ulti it is.Edited by Elong on February 10, 2016 7:42AM0 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downside
Don't get it, there's no downside to Prox Det either. Or any other ultimate.
Downside to prox det: you need to be in melee range
Downside to inevitable det: cast time
Templar Ults:- Downside to nova, both you and the enemy need to be inside it to be useful. It also locks you and allies to a specific and well telegraphed location for opponents to focus on. You need someone else to synergize it for it to do any significant dmg.
- Downside to empowering sweep, slotting it.
- Downside to remembrance, you cannot move for 4 seconds and announce to the world that you're a healer.
Sorcerer Ults:- Downside to atro, it's immobile, does relatively low dmg on its own
- Downside to overload, can be reflected, easy to spot and react to
DK Ults:- Who are we kidding DKs have friggin awesome ults -_-
NB Ults:- Downside to Soul Harvest, single target, can be dodged
- Downside to Veil, small radius, locks you to a specific location for it to be effective
Dawnbreaker: downside is that the cone can miss pretty easily and a lot of the dmg can be purged off quickly
There are certainly downsides to ultimates. Most ults require you to be within melee-ish range of your enemies/allies and/or are ground targeted. Meteor can be cast safely from range and acts as a heat seeking missile now, there's no risk of you dropping your meteor in the wrong spot like you can with a nova so long as you have the correct person targeted. For ults like bats/soul siphon/etc., you need to be up in their face for them to be of any use and at that point you're committed and have a difficult time disengaging compared to being at max range and dropping an empowered meteor with 14 other people.
Should qualify that, no other ultis can be reflected. I see what you mean and agree. I still don't think this is a massive game changer. I can hardly ever reflect a meteor cos of the ping!0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downside
Don't get it, there's no downside to Prox Det either. Or any other ultimate.
Downside to prox det: you need to be in melee range
Downside to inevitable det: cast time
Templar Ults:- Downside to nova, both you and the enemy need to be inside it to be useful. It also locks you and allies to a specific and well telegraphed location for opponents to focus on. You need someone else to synergize it for it to do any significant dmg.
- Downside to empowering sweep, slotting it.
- Downside to remembrance, you cannot move for 4 seconds and announce to the world that you're a healer.
Sorcerer Ults:- Downside to atro, it's immobile, does relatively low dmg on its own
- Downside to overload, can be reflected, easy to spot and react to
DK Ults:- Who are we kidding DKs have friggin awesome ults -_-
NB Ults:- Downside to Soul Harvest, single target, can be dodged
- Downside to Veil, small radius, locks you to a specific location for it to be effective
Dawnbreaker: downside is that the cone can miss pretty easily and a lot of the dmg can be purged off quickly
There are certainly downsides to ultimates. Most ults require you to be within melee-ish range of your enemies/allies and/or are ground targeted. Meteor can be cast safely from range and acts as a heat seeking missile now, there's no risk of you dropping your meteor in the wrong spot like you can with a nova so long as you have the correct person targeted. For ults like bats/soul siphon/etc., you need to be up in their face for them to be of any use and at that point you're committed and have a difficult time disengaging compared to being at max range and dropping an empowered meteor with 14 other people.
Should qualify that, no other ultis can be reflected. I see what you mean and agree. I still don't think this is a massive game changer. I can hardly ever reflect a meteor cos of the ping!
I agree the reflect is not that big of a game changer, I could rarely get a reflect to go off (or a purify) even when it's obvious that it's coming because of the poor responsiveness of the game and lag. But that WAS the drawback to the ult, when juxtaposed against the many benefits it has. If they're removing the drawback, I would think you would need to tweak the benefits a little to compensate.
Also, overload can obviously be reflected. And NB can have their soul tether thrown back in their face if a templar can actually get off a well timed eclipse in pvp, not that many even have that skill on their bar (for good reason...).Edited by Zheg on February 10, 2016 7:54AM0 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »If I dump 20 meteors on you you're gonna wipe. If it can't be reflected, why not?
The problem isn't that people should or shouldn't use it. The problem is that there is now no reason NOT to use it. That means a lot more people WILL use it and it WILL cause massive amounts of LAG. That is my #1 concern.
That's what I mean. No reason not to use them now. Literally no downside
Don't get it, there's no downside to Prox Det either. Or any other ultimate.
Downside to prox det: you need to be in melee range
Downside to inevitable det: cast time
Templar Ults:- Downside to nova, both you and the enemy need to be inside it to be useful. It also locks you and allies to a specific and well telegraphed location for opponents to focus on. You need someone else to synergize it for it to do any significant dmg.
- Downside to empowering sweep, slotting it.
- Downside to remembrance, you cannot move for 4 seconds and announce to the world that you're a healer.
Sorcerer Ults:- Downside to atro, it's immobile, does relatively low dmg on its own
- Downside to overload, can be reflected, easy to spot and react to
DK Ults:- Who are we kidding DKs have friggin awesome ults -_-
NB Ults:- Downside to Soul Harvest, single target, can be dodged
- Downside to Veil, small radius, locks you to a specific location for it to be effective
Dawnbreaker: downside is that the cone can miss pretty easily and a lot of the dmg can be purged off quickly
There are certainly downsides to ultimates. Most ults require you to be within melee-ish range of your enemies/allies and/or are ground targeted. Meteor can be cast safely from range and acts as a heat seeking missile now, there's no risk of you dropping your meteor in the wrong spot like you can with a nova so long as you have the correct person targeted. For ults like bats/soul siphon/etc., you need to be up in their face for them to be of any use and at that point you're committed and have a difficult time disengaging compared to being at max range and dropping an empowered meteor with 14 other people.
Should qualify that, no other ultis can be reflected. I see what you mean and agree. I still don't think this is a massive game changer. I can hardly ever reflect a meteor cos of the ping!
I agree the reflect is not that big of a game changer, I could rarely get a reflect to go off (or a purify) even when it's obvious that it's coming because of the poor responsiveness of the game and lag. But that WAS the drawback to the ult, when juxtaposed against the many benefits it has. If they're removing the drawback, I would think you would need to tweak the benefits a little to compensate.
Also, overload can obviously be reflected. And NB can have their soul tether thrown back in their face if a templar can actually get off a well timed eclipse in pvp, not that many even have that skill on their bar (for good reason...).
Probably tone down the snare or the damage. Thing is, standing back and casting it doesn't do enough damage to wipe someone. Now if VE did it simultaneously with a full raid, yeah, that's gonna hurt. But again, if you all had different ultis it would be the same end result.0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is a pretty obvious dumbing down change, I lost the energy to even bother any further though.
A projectile is any object thrown into space (empty or not) by the exertion of a force.[1] Although any object in motion through space (for example a thrown baseball) may be called a projectile, the term more commonly refers to a ranged weapon
What the **** are you even talking about? Let's not argue semantics of a word in a video game, meteor is a projectile. In terms of a healthy and balanced game, we should have the ability to reflect or at the very least dodge this ultimate, NB can still cloak and Templar can still cleanse so WTF. You take a lot of thought out of the game by removing this function.
idk if anyone said this already, but templars can no longer purge this ultimate, or any projectile for that matter.
Yeah, that really sucks. Every class once had a way to deal with meteor, while some worked better on paper they all worked fine. This is a *** change.The Age of Wrobel.3 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭People defending this change are just clueless as to whats coming their way. Meteors will be 1 shotting left and right.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT2 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »People defending this change are just clueless as to whats coming their way. Meteors will be 1 shotting left and right.
If they didn't actually fix fall damage like they said they have (for the 4th time mind you, which should say something...), may the lag gods have mercy on all of us.1 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »People defending this change are just clueless as to whats coming their way. Meteors will be 1 shotting left and right.
If they didn't actually fix fall damage like they said they have (for the 4th time mind you, which should say something...), may the lag gods have mercy on all of us.
Except NBs cuz they can still magically sit in one spot and press cloak and the meteor misses.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT2
