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RIP BREATH OF LIFE
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cloak is going to nerf much harder than bol, also nb got nerfed funnel health, you'll see next patch of many cloak whine thread there will be. You can't understand if you haven't tryed it on pts.
What that nb's need to slot purge like every other class, you also get a 8% dmg reduction now.
Sure magelight will bring you out but only if your 8m. In other words you now can't cloak literally next to the person casting magelight and need to fight a bit more tactically.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Cloak is going to nerf much harder than bol, also nb got nerfed funnel health, you'll see next patch of many cloak whine thread there will be. You can't understand if you haven't tryed it on pts.
What that nb's need to slot purge like every other class, you also get a 8% dmg reduction now.
Sure magelight will bring you out but only if your 8m. In other words you now can't cloak literally next to the person casting magelight and need to fight a bit more tactically.
Sorry , but doesn't work like that, you have not tested it. I tested it an entire day with my friend, and you can't literally use cloak icon (it's black) for 5 sec, even if you are 100 m away, purge doesn't work. My friend was dk, and using inner light every 5 sec , spamming chains next to you , will disable forever cloak.0 -
ContraTempo✭✭✭✭Whether BOL is The One healing skill to have or not, it seems odd to nerf something we have a shortage of (healers). Anyone who has queued in the group finder knows its tanks and healers we are always waiting for, not DPS.
At minimum this has annoyed a lot of people who play healers and for what? Because ZoS did not like their play style?
/slowheadshakeContraTempo
Carpe DM
Seize the Dungeon Master6 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭avelopolcakb14a_ESO wrote: »
What sacrifice do other classes have to make that a templar does not? Have you even played a templar healer? You pick 2 and exactly 2 abilities from the Healing line and the rest comes from the resto staff. BoL and Cleansing ritual are the two abilities worth their salt from the templar line. The rest are trash and easily replaceable by any other skill.
have you forgot about Repentance? the only way in the game to actively give stam back to the group and yourself. that makes it more than "worth its salt", cleansing ritual has no real place in pve, it is stationary and, while large, heals for little, mutagen is much better. in fact, I would have to sacrifice mutagen for cleansing ritual if I would want the major mending buff, though i prolly won't, my heals are pretty big anyways.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on February 9, 2016 3:26AM0 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭avelopolcakb14a_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
I hear where you're coming from, but don't you see how such is antithetical to the heart of a true RPG?
I got this game thinking it would be more to the core of RPG's in general, with strict class identity separation...not mix and match flavor text abilities.
I'm having fun in dungeons playing "my way" as a templar tank, but I know I won't be delving deep into other classes as there really isn't much difference between them all. The community seems to want each class to be capable of what every other class can do.
I just want them to either leave Templar as the best healer class, as it has been for 2 years and some people have rolled it just to heal, or give us a new skill line to match what other classes have if we are supposed to be equal.
For the sake of fairness...
I also happen to think each class can have their thing and so what. There are many examples of classes that have unique abilities and strengths.
But ZOS right now are trying to level healing to be same for all classes but leave Templars with the same healing skill line??? So we have a whole thing of useless skills and weak passives, if restoration staff is all we should need. Oh dear.
You understand that for another class to heal as reliably as a Templar, they are bound to the resto staff.
It has nothing to do with fairness and that fact that you are trying to throw all classes perks into a vacuum of comparison shows how off base you or your train of thought is. Your logic works in an mmo with far more specs and classes that are specifically designed.
This game treats weapon skill lines much different and much more then simple tools for a class. You asked what other class has a skill line dedicated to healing. The answer to that is the restoration staff.
Wether or not templar healing is gimped is an entirely seperate issue than the one regarding the fact that templars should not be balanced around being the sole healer in this game. You are conveniently ignoring the sacrifices other classes have to make in order to fill the healing role.
What sacrifice do other classes have to make that a templar does not? Have you even played a templar healer? You pick 2 and exactly 2 abilities from the Healing line and the rest comes from the resto staff. BoL and Cleansing ritual are the two abilities worth their salt from the templar line. The rest are trash and easily replaceable by any other skill. They are also not so unique in their execution as to completely trump any other class skills another class might choose. I don't see how a sorcerer with wards or a nightblade with funnel health or any of the other lifestealing abilities "sacrifices a lot" in order to become a healer. You slot healing abilities just like the templar does. Templar healers aren't any different in this respect and I have no idea what you are even trying to say.
I'd say 3 min actually because repentance is good for all, and I don't want to hear about other class sacrifices to heal until a full 3rd of their class skills are dedicated to healing. Thanks.
As long as this is true and you choose to waste your DPS potential by healing (why????), then I'm gonna keep not really caring that much that you cannot do it as well as I. You shouldn't be able to. End of.Edited by Islyn on February 9, 2016 3:45AMMember of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 20130 -
avelopolcakb14a_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
I hear where you're coming from, but don't you see how such is antithetical to the heart of a true RPG?
I got this game thinking it would be more to the core of RPG's in general, with strict class identity separation...not mix and match flavor text abilities.
I'm having fun in dungeons playing "my way" as a templar tank, but I know I won't be delving deep into other classes as there really isn't much difference between them all. The community seems to want each class to be capable of what every other class can do.
I just want them to either leave Templar as the best healer class, as it has been for 2 years and some people have rolled it just to heal, or give us a new skill line to match what other classes have if we are supposed to be equal.
For the sake of fairness...
I also happen to think each class can have their thing and so what. There are many examples of classes that have unique abilities and strengths.
But ZOS right now are trying to level healing to be same for all classes but leave Templars with the same healing skill line??? So we have a whole thing of useless skills and weak passives, if restoration staff is all we should need. Oh dear.
You understand that for another class to heal as reliably as a Templar, they are bound to the resto staff.
It has nothing to do with fairness and that fact that you are trying to throw all classes perks into a vacuum of comparison shows how off base you or your train of thought is. Your logic works in an mmo with far more specs and classes that are specifically designed.
This game treats weapon skill lines much different and much more then simple tools for a class. You asked what other class has a skill line dedicated to healing. The answer to that is the restoration staff.
Wether or not templar healing is gimped is an entirely seperate issue than the one regarding the fact that templars should not be balanced around being the sole healer in this game. You are conveniently ignoring the sacrifices other classes have to make in order to fill the healing role.
What sacrifice do other classes have to make that a templar does not? Have you even played a templar healer? You pick 2 and exactly 2 abilities from the Healing line and the rest comes from the resto staff. BoL and Cleansing ritual are the two abilities worth their salt from the templar line. The rest are trash and easily replaceable by any other skill. They are also not so unique in their execution as to completely trump any other class skills another class might choose. I don't see how a sorcerer with wards or a nightblade with funnel health or any of the other lifestealing abilities "sacrifices a lot" in order to become a healer. You slot healing abilities just like the templar does. Templar healers aren't any different in this respect and I have no idea what you are even trying to say.
I'd say 3 min actually because repentance is good for all, and I don't want to hear about other class sacrifices to heal until a full 3rd of their class skills are dedicated to healing. Thanks.
As long as this is true and you choose to waste your DPS potential by healing (why????), then I'm gonna keep not really caring that much that you cannot do it as well as I. You shouldn't be able to. End of.
What are you even trying to say with this post? Are you agreeing with me ? Disagreeing? From what you wrote I gather that you think repentance is good, and that you don't care if healing means my DPS lower? Since when was I saying I should be able to DPS and heal?
The person I was replying to was the one talking about sacrifices the other classes have to make, which is idiotic because healing is an all or none thing in this game1 -
MrGigglypants✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
I really got this group fired up!! LOL.. I'm a sorc, so I don't usually worry about heals unless it's a boss fight, but BoL should really only be used on someone who is in or close to execute range. I don't see a need for it to hit multiple people.
i have no problem with that attitude but then it needs the same spell cost as hardend ward and not 3x its cost...
hardened ward only affects one player not 20 -
Bossdonut✭✭✭✭✭MrGigglypants wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
I really got this group fired up!! LOL.. I'm a sorc, so I don't usually worry about heals unless it's a boss fight, but BoL should really only be used on someone who is in or close to execute range. I don't see a need for it to hit multiple people.
i have no problem with that attitude but then it needs the same spell cost as hardend ward and not 3x its cost...
hardened ward only affects one player not 2
Hard ward shields yourself and another so technically 2. Healing Ward affects 1 player.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MrGigglypants wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
I really got this group fired up!! LOL.. I'm a sorc, so I don't usually worry about heals unless it's a boss fight, but BoL should really only be used on someone who is in or close to execute range. I don't see a need for it to hit multiple people.
i have no problem with that attitude but then it needs the same spell cost as hardend ward and not 3x its cost...
hardened ward only affects one player not 2
Hard ward shields yourself and another so technically 2. Healing Ward affects 1 player.
That is ward ally, not hardened ward
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Bossdonut✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »MrGigglypants wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
I really got this group fired up!! LOL.. I'm a sorc, so I don't usually worry about heals unless it's a boss fight, but BoL should really only be used on someone who is in or close to execute range. I don't see a need for it to hit multiple people.
i have no problem with that attitude but then it needs the same spell cost as hardend ward and not 3x its cost...
hardened ward only affects one player not 2
Hard ward shields yourself and another so technically 2. Healing Ward affects 1 player.
That is ward ally, not hardened ward
My wrongness.0 -
Frenkthevile✭✭✭✭ContraTempo wrote: »Whether BOL is The One healing skill to have or not, it seems odd to nerf something we have a shortage of (healers). Anyone who has queued in the group finder knows its tanks and healers we are always waiting for, not DPS.
At minimum this has annoyed a lot of people who play healers and for what? Because ZoS did not like their play style?
/slowheadshake
Tanks and healers are hard to find in LFG because ZoS made them less and less fun to play, nerfing stamina regen, ultimate gain, then nerfing templar resource management, now nerfed BoL too.
And at the same time they made VMA that is a dull content for DPS only, so screw healing, many templars re-rolled as DPS.Edited by Frenkthevile on February 10, 2016 7:59AM0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭
done it multiple times with no templar at all so dont know what point your trying to make here
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Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭ContraTempo wrote: »Whether BOL is The One healing skill to have or not, it seems odd to nerf something we have a shortage of (healers). Anyone who has queued in the group finder knows its tanks and healers we are always waiting for, not DPS.
At minimum this has annoyed a lot of people who play healers and for what? Because ZoS did not like their play style?
/slowheadshake
Yeah I decided to stop going to pugs ever again because of this. Some pugs are awesome, some - BOL saves them and we would not complete without it because I have to do so much more in there.
So, no more pugs.Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 20132 -
Dragnelus✭✭✭KingYogi415 wrote: »Every class now has Templar healers best buff. Nightblade, DK's and maybe Sorcs might be just as good healers as Templars now.
Here is what the testers had to say: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245184/official-feedback-thread-for-templars#latest
Thats the point my friend. I waited since launch for this! Gj eso!
Gonna bring my DK healer back!0