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RIP BREATH OF LIFE
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Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
^This. +1"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."4 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭CrowsDescend wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
The big difference is that it will now cost me twice the magica to heal my entire party in an emergency.
Plus let's say three out of the four of us get knocked to 10% health. Normally, 1 cast of BoL could get my party back on it's feet. If this change goes through, I'll only be able to heal 2 of them and number three will die if I can't get a second cast off in time. Now despite BoL being an instant cast it still does take a split second or to actually fire off.
I can tell you from experience a split second is all it takes for things to go sour. So I'm likely speending more time spending time rezing people when I could be using repentance so the tank can taunt and block, mystic orb so the sorc can dps and another heal to keep us from repeating the situation all over again.
True, BUT now, in that situation you described, we'll have to keep the group topped up (Pre Rapid Regen, Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual etc.) so that by the time you even contemplate casting a second BoL, the player who is low health, will/should quickly use their own defensive abilities/heals IF they feel that they're in trouble while your heal over time's working its magic on them.
I'm not saying HoTs aren't good spells to keep on your bar, but if you want a more versatile healer, one that buffs you, removes your debuffs, helps in DPS and heals you, having RR, healing ritual and any other healing spells takes up space in your action bars. So instead of slotting Shards or EleDrain or Combat Prayer or any spell that will help buff or debuff you, I would rather slot every heal in game to keep my party alive. Wait, didn't you say that healers are suppose to buff people too? Well, guess what? Because I have to heal you, I just don't have enough space for that in my bar because I need to make sure you're alive.
What you don't get is that there are instances where everyone in the group takes insane amount of damage, and no amount of HoT is going to heal you through it. Being able to heal an extra member means making sure that everyone is alive when everyone in the group takes that damage. It saves your healer magicka, as he/she doesn't have to cast another healing skill, which translates to your healer buffing/debuffing you.
Not saying to not use other healing spells, they are viable in different scenarios, but BoL is really unappreciated by some people, just because they have encountered BoL spammers. Yes, there are who do that, and I have been partied with them when I play as a DPS. But good templar healers also use BoL."We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]2 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrowsDescend wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
The big difference is that it will now cost me twice the magica to heal my entire party in an emergency.
Plus let's say three out of the four of us get knocked to 10% health. Normally, 1 cast of BoL could get my party back on it's feet. If this change goes through, I'll only be able to heal 2 of them and number three will die if I can't get a second cast off in time. Now despite BoL being an instant cast it still does take a split second or to actually fire off.
I can tell you from experience a split second is all it takes for things to go sour. So I'm likely speending more time spending time rezing people when I could be using repentance so the tank can taunt and block, mystic orb so the sorc can dps and another heal to keep us from repeating the situation all over again.
True, BUT now, in that situation you described, we'll have to keep the group topped up (Pre Rapid Regen, Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual etc.) so that by the time you even contemplate casting a second BoL, the player who is low health, will/should quickly use their own defensive abilities/heals IF they feel that they're in trouble while your heal over time's working its magic on them.
I'm not saying HoTs aren't good spells to keep on your bar, but if you want a more versatile healer, one that buffs you, removes your debuffs, helps in DPS and heals you, having RR, healing ritual and any other healing spells takes up space in your action bars. So instead of slotting Shards or EleDrain or Combat Prayer or any spell that will help buff or debuff you, I would rather slot every heal in game to keep my party alive. Wait, didn't you say that healers are suppose to buff people too? Well, guess what? Because I have to heal you, I just don't have enough space for that in my bar because I need to make sure you're alive.
What you don't get is that there are instances where everyone in the group takes insane amount of damage, and no amount of HoT is going to heal you through it. Being able to heal an extra member means making sure that everyone is alive when everyone in the group takes that damage. It saves your healer magicka, as he/she doesn't have to cast another healing skill, which translates to your healer buffing/debuffing you.
Not saying to not use other healing spells, they are viable in different scenarios, but BoL is really unappreciated by some people, just because they have encountered BoL spammers. Yes, there are who do that, and I have been partied with them when I play as a DPS. But good templar healers also use BoL.
Right now I can heal and buff and give resources back to my party and do some DPS on my healer. I don't think the BoL nerf will change much, but I still have to test it. My bars right now are:
- Resto: jabs, jesus beam, rapid regen, combat prayer, BoL, nova. That's 2 DPS abilities, 3 heals, 1 of which buffs party DPS. BoL for emergency use only.
- Destro: purifying ritual (the nerf of which worries me more), shards, orbs (or repentance if DDs are stamina), ele drain, BoL (again for emergencies), war horn. That's 2 heals, 1 of which buffs my other heals, 3 resource management skills, and a buff ultimate.
Since I'm using spell power cure, I actually prefer HoT over instant heals because more chance to proc the huge DPS buff of that set.
The only situation that worries me is boss enrages where the whole party is taking loads of damage.3 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭CrowsDescend wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
The big difference is that it will now cost me twice the magica to heal my entire party in an emergency.
Plus let's say three out of the four of us get knocked to 10% health. Normally, 1 cast of BoL could get my party back on it's feet. If this change goes through, I'll only be able to heal 2 of them and number three will die if I can't get a second cast off in time. Now despite BoL being an instant cast it still does take a split second or to actually fire off.
I can tell you from experience a split second is all it takes for things to go sour. So I'm likely speending more time spending time rezing people when I could be using repentance so the tank can taunt and block, mystic orb so the sorc can dps and another heal to keep us from repeating the situation all over again.
True, BUT now, in that situation you described, we'll have to keep the group topped up (Pre Rapid Regen, Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual etc.) so that by the time you even contemplate casting a second BoL, the player who is low health, will/should quickly use their own defensive abilities/heals IF they feel that they're in trouble while your heal over time's working its magic on them.
I'm not saying HoTs aren't good spells to keep on your bar, but if you want a more versatile healer, one that buffs you, removes your debuffs, helps in DPS and heals you, having RR, healing ritual and any other healing spells takes up space in your action bars. So instead of slotting Shards or EleDrain or Combat Prayer or any spell that will help buff or debuff you, I would rather slot every heal in game to keep my party alive. Wait, didn't you say that healers are suppose to buff people too? Well, guess what? Because I have to heal you, I just don't have enough space for that in my bar because I need to make sure you're alive.
What you don't get is that there are instances where everyone in the group takes insane amount of damage, and no amount of HoT is going to heal you through it. Being able to heal an extra member means making sure that everyone is alive when everyone in the group takes that damage. It saves your healer magicka, as he/she doesn't have to cast another healing skill, which translates to your healer buffing/debuffing you.
Not saying to not use other healing spells, they are viable in different scenarios, but BoL is really unappreciated by some people, just because they have encountered BoL spammers. Yes, there are who do that, and I have been partied with them when I play as a DPS. But good templar healers also use BoL.
Right now I can heal and buff and give resources back to my party and do some DPS on my healer. I don't think the BoL nerf will change much, but I still have to test it. My bars right now are:
- Resto: jabs, jesus beam, rapid regen, combat prayer, BoL, nova. That's 2 DPS abilities, 3 heals, 1 of which buffs party DPS. BoL for emergency use only.
- Destro: purifying ritual (the nerf of which worries me more), shards, orbs (or repentance if DDs are stamina), ele drain, BoL (again for emergencies), war horn. That's 2 heals, 1 of which buffs my other heals, 3 resource management skills, and a buff ultimate.
Since I'm using spell power cure, I actually prefer HoT over instant heals because more chance to proc the huge DPS buff of that set.
The only situation that worries me is boss enrages where the whole party is taking loads of damage.
I actually do that as well, I heal, buff/debuff and DPS on my healer. Personally, I'm not not welcoming the nerf (lol), because it doesn't affect me as a healer, I mean, I still get to heal myself. This "The only situation that worries me is boss enrages where the whole party is taking loads of damage" is what I am concerned of too. It's ok if just one takes a huge blow from a boss/mob, but if multiple players are being hit at the same time, that becomes a problem. Think Fire Maw in vCoA. lol.
I agree with you, HoTs would be very good on you since you're using Spell Power Cure, I don't have it still. lol. Not sure, if I am going that direction, but thinking about it. hehe.Edited by me_ming on February 4, 2016 10:32AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]0 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Spottswoode wrote: »
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
One of the reasons I wanted the skill changed (and the change I wanted was much more minor) was to get PUGs off of the BoL only mindset and to even out healing across classes. Again, I didn't want it to be reduced quite this severely, as it would make the game a lot more difficult for PUGs.
Except you are SO WRONG there, seriously. Not even PUGS just spam BOL all the time.
That would happen MUCH MORE OFTEN when people gang up on one healer.
The ONLY TIME IN MY LIFE I have EVER SPAMMED BoL is when I got dogpiled by 3-5 people on my way to meet up with my *small* group.
I only PVP informally with one guild and formally (want to be hardcore there but got building works afoot so am currently unreliable for raids) in another and in BOTH we never spam BOL.
Never.Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 20132 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭CrowsDescend wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
The big difference is that it will now cost me twice the magica to heal my entire party in an emergency.
Plus let's say three out of the four of us get knocked to 10% health. Normally, 1 cast of BoL could get my party back on it's feet. If this change goes through, I'll only be able to heal 2 of them and number three will die if I can't get a second cast off in time. Now despite BoL being an instant cast it still does take a split second or to actually fire off.
I can tell you from experience a split second is all it takes for things to go sour. So I'm likely speending more time spending time rezing people when I could be using repentance so the tank can taunt and block, mystic orb so the sorc can dps and another heal to keep us from repeating the situation all over again.
True, BUT now, in that situation you described, we'll have to keep the group topped up (Pre Rapid Regen, Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual etc.) so that by the time you even contemplate casting a second BoL, the player who is low health, will/should quickly use their own defensive abilities/heals IF they feel that they're in trouble while your heal over time's working its magic on them.
I think your putting way too much faith in that bolded part. Assuming they thought to do that, sometimes bad things happen, like lag and player response time. Hell even on a good day the server can be several seconds behind the client. So even if everything is good on the players end bad luck happens. Being able to heal everybody in one go helps to compensate for that.
And yes, the general idea is always to prevent that situation from happening. HoTs should always be applied profusely for that exact purpose but let's be realistic. With PuGs a near wipe is always a possibility. Being able to recover quickly from that can make all the difference and what they plan to do with BoL compromises my ability to do just that.
There is no clear positive and quite a bit of negative to this change. I really have to call it into question. And the attitude that some people are displaying regarding it makes me question it even more.Spottswoode wrote: »
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
One of the reasons I wanted the skill changed (and the change I wanted was much more minor) was to get PUGs off of the BoL only mindset and to even out healing across classes. Again, I didn't want it to be reduced quite this severely, as it would make the game a lot more difficult for PUGs.
See that's just it. I can understand wanting to cut the umbilical so to speak when it comes to BoL. I agree that it's gotten more than a little out of hand. I'll tell anyone who'll listen that BoL should not be the only heal on your bar as a healer. I'm also all for more non Temp healers, by all means make healing more functional and intuitive for other classes. This isn't the way to do it though. All this does is spoil the major highlight of the Templar Class and that just feels like a cheap shot.
Ultimately will the change stop me from playing as a healer? No. I genuinely enjoy my role, just as I genuinely enjoy helping others. I will find some way to manage when the time comes. I'm just disappointed. Mostly because this only serves to reinforce the opinion that ZoS really can't manage meaningful balance. I'm also rather disappointed and not a little hurt that so many people seem to be of the opinion that any Templar that's ever had BoL slotted, let alone used it more than once in a thirty second time period (even when justified) must automatically be a scrub. Thus nerf warranted.
Actually, when I think about it I guess that is exactly what has me so upset and got me riled up in the first place
Then give us a a useful skill tree that isn't all heals, one of which being the most STUPID SKILL IN GAME.
Oh and for those who do this (all the time!) stop spazzing into the middle of trashmobs and expecting to live through it.Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 20135 -
Sunah✭✭✭The nerf to BoL sucks completely but I do agree with some people here about bad players spamming BoL... I knew a guy who was trying to tell a guildie to build up 2k magic regen... 2K....... just so they could spam BoL... yeah I shut his ass down in a heart beat and he cried and left the guild.
Its going to make it more challenging to heal now but... im willing to see how it goes before I start crying. Maybe it will be a little more engaging haha.1 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭The nerf to BoL sucks completely but I do agree with some people here about bad players spamming BoL... I knew a guy who was trying to tell a guildie to build up 2k magic regen... 2K....... just so they could spam BoL... yeah I shut his ass down in a heart beat and he cried and left the guild.
Its going to make it more challenging to heal now but... im willing to see how it goes before I start crying. Maybe it will be a little more engaging haha.
I am not ACTUALLY that bothered by the bol nerf itself - I mean *** it, so I cast it 2x or a spamarina dies to trash lol - who cares.
I am bent because I am over Templars being constantly nerfed FOR THE WRONG REASONS.
Nerfing this because of PVP is flat out stupid and a cop-out to just SORTING THE LINE OF SIGHT issues which should have been sorted ALREADY/never should have been there in the first place.
I am bent because I am sick of the easy/crap road being taken ALL THE TIME.
Finally, I am BENT because If my class has a whole tree for healing, then stop jacking up mah damned tree or give me a different tree.
Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 201316 -
caperon✭✭✭✭You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
Let's just hope that when in a 4- or 12- man content where everyone is taking damage more than 60% of their health, you are the one getting the extra BoL, because if not, I'm pretty sure you're dead, because this time you don't get to blame your healer for not healing you in time.
If everyone is taking 60% of his hp in dmg and you expect heal it with BOL you are doing it wrong. Healing springs is way better and promotes awareness for dps. Green circle life, otside circle death. I can't imagine how many templars you would need in poison phase in the serpent.1 -
Xantaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭KingYogi415 wrote: »http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245011/.
Why does ZOS have to nerf the one skill that made Templars wanted for dungeons.
I am all for class balancing but nerfing Templars again is just a complete joke.
As a dedicated healer who was waiting for buffs to switch to DPS I am deeply disappointed.
The main reason they did this was not in the name of "balancing" but to artificially inflate the new raids difficulty.
"Restoration Staff:
Essence Drain: This passive ability now also grants you the Major Mending buff for 1.5/3 seconds after completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack at Ranks I/II."
Every class now has templars best buff. Nightblade and DK's and maybe sorcs will be just as good healers as templars now.
DKs always had major mending from one of their class skills already.
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭driosketch wrote: »
They really didn't buff Healing Ritual though. They reduced the cast time (but left it still high enough to make it never worth using), and they reduced the healing it does by the same amount. It was a useless skill, and it remains a useless skill. I never slot this skill now, and with these changes I'll continue to never slot it. I can't think of a worse healing skill in the game - and this is coming from a Templar who uses a wide variety of different heals when I'm healing, with BoL only being my panic button.CrowsDescend wrote: »They buffed Healing Ritual though, so they're basically saying "Hey, maybe you might want to use this healing ability AS WELL, you know... instead of ummm.. spamming that one heal?"
I didn't see anything about reducing the cost either. By my math that's actually a nerf when used over time.
its a free to use ability anyway as long as it has a longer CT than 0.6 sec atleast i can spam it endlessly without losing more mana than i recover in the same time frame ...
but because of its restrictions i´m not going to use it anyway. to long casting time, ruptable, snares the caster, to small radius at least 2-3 of these issues have to be adressed BEFORE any one with a sane mind even thinks about using it.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Baconfat79 wrote: »This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!Baconfat79 wrote: »This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!Baconfat79 wrote: »This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!
So instead of having a class that people choose because of it's benefits for a healer such as Restoring Light, you want us brought DOWN to your level so that a Stamina DK Tank wearing Heavy Armor can heal a dungeon? Wait, maybe they can now!
they allready can did so in CoA :P vigor + igneous shield = awesome... [be sure to have major mending buff up all the time, when some one gets hit, double tap vigor = 3x3k+ heals within one second > healing than bol provides in the same timeframe(over the entire group)...
just did a bit of math - i see a switch in pvp from mana based healers towards stamina based healers because why healing 6HS/2BoL players when you can heal everyone in range via Vigor(24 man cap) for 80% of Bol value within one second...Edited by Tankqull on February 4, 2016 12:26PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"6 -
KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good I'm glad. Love playing my templar and happy that our class crutch got spanked. Hopefully in the future templars will no longer be "the healer" both by allowing other classes to heal more competitively and making room for buffs to their other damage/utility.
Really though I only use BoL when I'm feeling lazy as it is. *shrug*If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].2 -
willymchilybily✭✭✭✭Kevmeister wrote: »Praeficere wrote: »Templars are wanted in dungeons for Repentance, Shards and Nova. Not BoL.
You only said that because BoL was a staple skill used by, oh I don't know, every Templar healers?
Let's see how effective they are now that you have taken that skill for granted, as it heals 1 less player in the group.
You mean DPS actually have to not stand in Red Sh*t ....oh my gawd! we're all gonna die!
but seriously though, I believe they did actually nerf all heals that hit more than one other target that were not floor cast AOE, (eg funnel health too) and they did grant major mending quite easily. its just a general healing nerf across the board
i guess the aim is to make dungeons more difficult, tanking and healing more essential. and DPS need to be able to self sustain a little more
i doubt it will affect the majority of dungeons, but things like darkshade caverns - engine guardian poison phase, fungal grotto last boss vila - dot/lightening phase. and so forth will be a lot more challenging. will be interesting to have a challenge again.
Edited by willymchilybily on February 4, 2016 2:22PMPSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7201 -
cazlonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The larger issue here is that outside of healbotting Templars are already inferiour to every other class in every way imaginable and the patch does absolutely nothing to adress that.
Remove the entire healing tree for all i care, but there need to be substantial improvements in other areas and they are just not happening.6 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.PC Master Race
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UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Islyn you were to assume the complete obvious. I cannot literally bet engine guardian. Therefore what I said was hypothetical.
Yes you can. You lose the bet, you destroy your Engine Guardian.
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Kevmeister✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
Yes, because everyone obviously loves playing PvP and has no issues farming AP easily, right?Edited by Kevmeister on February 4, 2016 2:03PM1 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kevmeister wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
Yes, because everyone obviously loves playing PvP and has no issues farming AP easily, right?
Mutagen works just as well for farming ap. Plus actually playing pvp properly is kind of the point in the game. In PVE BOL spam doesn't win anything.PC Master Race
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Kwivur✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
I really got this group fired up!! LOL.. I'm a sorc, so I don't usually worry about heals unless it's a boss fight, but BoL should really only be used on someone who is in or close to execute range. I don't see a need for it to hit multiple people.0 -
Kevmeister✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »Kevmeister wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!
See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?
Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.
Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.
a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.
b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.
c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.
d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.
Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.
Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.
Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.
Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?
I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.
Finally someone said it. If you're running with 3 people in constant need of healing they need kicking tbh. One person is only ever taking the flak most of the time anyway so it's not big deal. Sorcs don't need healing (proper sorcs anyway) and stam players should be looking after themselves with vigor.
Yes, because everyone obviously loves playing PvP and has no issues farming AP easily, right?
Mutagen works just as well for farming ap. Plus actually playing pvp properly is kind of the point in the game. In PVE BOL spam doesn't win anything.
So, not only do you want players to PvP, but you want Stam players to slot Resto Staff as a secondary, and use it to spam (read: Stam users spamming Magicka ability) on a group? What profound insight, I must say!
Also, like I've said, some players don't like PvP with not only issues of bug exploitation, but with numerous other factors such as delay and lags, skills over-performing for certain classes, etc.
I get it that ZoS is trying to balance this 'change' to BoL to appease the PvP players, but us who prefer PvE don't have to be gutted in that same way.Edited by Kevmeister on February 4, 2016 2:18PM3 -
peteinosSoul ShrivenI dont get the meaning of such radical changes to class skills. It just doesnt simply makes sense.
When it comes to class balance, how can devs decide to nerf / buff such class skills such as the main healing skill of a class that is meant to be a healer.
So two years after release devs decide to make such changes. The results are deterministic, namely "break the balance".
Please ZOS try thinking as reasonably as most people would, and make small, and often changes to achieve a kind of balance (arguably it would never be perfect). But making huge changes every 6 months and then realise, "oh well we were wrong, we broke it", doesnt help.
Edited by peteinos on February 4, 2016 2:35PM2 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭@islyn all you're doing is hurling insults which is far less useful then anything I've said.
Dude I literally have no idea what you're talking about. You made some weird posts and bet your armor for whatever reason.
You're not even within my radar at all, so I am sorry if I insulted you by saying your other post and bet were pointless.
Now you keep mentioning me over and over in posts like because why?
Find something else to do or a new topic.
Thanks :-)Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 20130 -
threefarms✭✭✭I have had a Templar character from the start. After every incremental patch I couldn't help but feel like ZOS is screwing me. I will never understand why ZOS took the weakest class and nerfed it several times. BoL is the only skill left that is worth anything. If it goes, I go.7
me some 