RIP BREATH OF LIFE

Iove · February 2016

munkt0r wrote: »

I hear where you're coming from, but don't you see how such is antithetical to the heart of a true RPG?

I got this game thinking it would be more to the core of RPG's in general, with strict class identity separation...not mix and match flavor text abilities.

I'm having fun in dungeons playing "my way" as a templar tank, but I know I won't be delving deep into other classes as there really isn't much difference between them all. The community seems to want each class to be capable of what every other class can do.

I just want them to either leave Templar as the best healer class, as it has been for 2 years and some people have rolled it just to heal, or give us a new skill line to match what other classes have if we are supposed to be equal.

For the sake of fairness...

I also happen to think each class can have their thing and so what. There are many examples of classes that have unique abilities and strengths.

But ZOS right now are trying to level healing to be same for all classes but leave Templars with the same healing skill line??? So we have a whole thing of useless skills and weak passives, if restoration staff is all we should need. Oh dear.

exeeter702 · February 2016

Iove wrote: »

munkt0r wrote: »

I hear where you're coming from, but don't you see how such is antithetical to the heart of a true RPG?

I got this game thinking it would be more to the core of RPG's in general, with strict class identity separation...not mix and match flavor text abilities.

I'm having fun in dungeons playing "my way" as a templar tank, but I know I won't be delving deep into other classes as there really isn't much difference between them all. The community seems to want each class to be capable of what every other class can do.

I just want them to either leave Templar as the best healer class, as it has been for 2 years and some people have rolled it just to heal, or give us a new skill line to match what other classes have if we are supposed to be equal.

For the sake of fairness...

I also happen to think each class can have their thing and so what. There are many examples of classes that have unique abilities and strengths.

But ZOS right now are trying to level healing to be same for all classes but leave Templars with the same healing skill line??? So we have a whole thing of useless skills and weak passives, if restoration staff is all we should need. Oh dear.

You understand that for another class to heal as reliably as a Templar, they are bound to the resto staff.

It has nothing to do with fairness and that fact that you are trying to throw all classes perks into a vacuum of comparison shows how off base you or your train of thought is. Your logic works in an mmo with far more specs and classes that are specifically designed.

This game treats weapon skill lines much different and much more then simple tools for a class. You asked what other class has a skill line dedicated to healing. The answer to that is the restoration staff.

Wether or not templar healing is gimped is an entirely seperate issue than the one regarding the fact that templars should not be balanced around being the sole healer in this game. You are conveniently ignoring the sacrifices other classes have to make in order to fill the healing role.

KramUzibra · February 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Bossdonut wrote: »

Lol so many people are gonna die in pve.

Bromburak wrote: »

Good, finally they will L2P.

No, it will just be regarded the Healer's fault, as always.
UrQuan analyzed nicely, what will happen.

After PvP worked pretty nicely on console launch, PvP today is full of frustration (lag, no class balance, non working skills etc.). It looks like PvE is the next chapter to be ruined. :'(

Your so right, zos tries to fix things yet fails.

KramUzibra · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!

Stupid. When any other class has a whole tree/skill line for healing then you can say other classes should be as good.

When ONE CLASS has a WHOLE TREE for ONLY HEALS - why on earth should other classes be as good?

That whole notion is blatantly stupid.

I feel the same about DKs and earthen heart. Everybody always wants absolute equality and balence.

KramUzibra · February 2016

Iove wrote: »

munkt0r wrote: »

I hear where you're coming from, but don't you see how such is antithetical to the heart of a true RPG?

I got this game thinking it would be more to the core of RPG's in general, with strict class identity separation...not mix and match flavor text abilities.

I'm having fun in dungeons playing "my way" as a templar tank, but I know I won't be delving deep into other classes as there really isn't much difference between them all. The community seems to want each class to be capable of what every other class can do.

I just want them to either leave Templar as the best healer class, as it has been for 2 years and some people have rolled it just to heal, or give us a new skill line to match what other classes have if we are supposed to be equal.

For the sake of fairness...

I also happen to think each class can have their thing and so what. There are many examples of classes that have unique abilities and strengths.

But ZOS right now are trying to level healing to be same for all classes but leave Templars with the same healing skill line??? So we have a whole thing of useless skills and weak passives, if restoration staff is all we should need. Oh dear.

Unfortunately that's just the world we live in nowadays. Everything has to be fare, balanced and equal. Despite the direction this game is heading I still love it. Maybe because I favor the pve aspect idk but I'm in it for the long haul.

Dredlord · February 2016

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

To save the ones on the brink of death......

Not sure if you pvp but with all the burst damage thrown around people either dont need healing or they are AT THE BRINK OF DEATH all the *** time.

That is why the best heal in the game is a damage shield, cant be crit, scales off missing hp, and is immune to healing reduction debuffs.

Hand_Bacon · February 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

You understand that for another class to heal as reliably as a Templar, they are bound to the resto staff.

It has nothing to do with fairness and that fact that you are trying to throw all classes perks into a vacuum of comparison shows how off base you or your train of thought is. Your logic works in an mmo with far more specs and classes that are specifically designed.

This game treats weapon skill lines much different and much more then simple tools for a class. You asked what other class has a skill line dedicated to healing. The answer to that is the restoration staff.

Wether or not templar healing is gimped is an entirely seperate issue than the one regarding the fact that templars should not be balanced around being the sole healer in this game. You are conveniently ignoring the sacrifices other classes have to make in order to fill the healing role.

Wow, you've typed a lot without really saying anything.

First you say it has nothing to do with fairness, but you finish by stating the person isn't aware of the sacrifices other classes have to make. Say what?

You then tell the person that because they are...wait for it..."trying to throw all perks into a vacuum of comparison." Its like you're trying to sound intelligent and condescending at the same time. Sounds like a two front war for you.

You say the answer to other classes' healing is the restoration line, but earlier you state that in order for other classes to heal as reliably as a Templar they are "bound" to the resto staff. Complicating the obvious to try and make a point, where there is no point.

If you want to look at the utility other classes get out of the resto staff then you have to look at the synergies via passives that help those classes produce with it. The Templar healing skill line has skills and passives that are, crazy, meant for healing. The entire line. The other classes have skill lines and passives that synergize for other reasons as well as providing some for utilizing heals. They don't have an entire skill line dedicated to it. Why is that so hard to understand? Gimping the one thing that Templars have a dedicated skill line for is just silly, especially since it wasn't OP or ruining balance anywhere but in the minds of those who thing they should be able to heal as well as a Templar. I don't care whether or not it really hurts Templars that much. Its the fact that somebody, to begin with, thought a nerf in that skill line was a good idea.

If a sorc, dk, or nb rolled, fully aware of the skill lines and expected to heal as well as a Templar and at all times, then those sacrifices you say they are making are not sacrifices they are choices. Good or bad choices, that's for them to judge, not for ZoS to retro rectify.

Dredlord · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Dedicated Templars will not be able to save casual console players anymore.

Best part is - this is a serious line. lol

Its pretty pathetic how salty you are because a templar healed someone you thought you should have killed...

Dredlord · February 2016

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Finally well' have more skilled healers around and not just templars even other classes will be able to do the healers now
(i've not tested my DK yet but since the "healing fist" has been buffed i believe it can easily crit above 15k in pts)

how does nerfing templars make other healers better? hrm?

It's quite simple my friend, finally OTHER CLASSES will be considered as good as templars, right now if you are not a templar healer ( mainly due to BOL that makes every templar a good healer) it will take days to join a group and no one except guildies want you.

Well, if this was the point of the "nerf" then why not just delete the entire restoration tree?? I'm so sick of reading "this is fair because now other classes will be as good". I'm sorry, BUT OTHER CLASSES DO NOT HAVE AN ENTIRE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING.

Other classes should NOT be as good, FULL STOP.

If that is, indeed what the community wants, then get rid of the freaking tree all together and give templars something else to make them a unique class....

From the nach potes

DK

Sea of Flames (Inferno morph):
This morph has been renamed to Cauterize, and will now summon an Aura of Cauterizing Flames, launching a fireball at an ally to heal them instead of an enemy to damage them.
Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):
This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Obsidian Shield:
Igneous Shield's increased damage shield effect is now a baseline effect for Obsidian Shield.
Note: The Igneous Shield morph will continue to grant you the Major Mending buff as a morph effect.
Obsidian Shard (Stonefist morph):
Increased the healing from this morph by 16%.

NB

Bolstering Darkness (Consuming Darkness morph):
Increased the healing from the Hidden Refresh synergy from this morph by 20%.
Refreshing Path (Path of Darkness morph):
Reduced the time this morph continues to heal yourself and allies to 2 seconds after leaving the path, down from 3 seconds.
Funnel Health (Strife morph):
Reduced the application of the heal over time to you and one additional friendly target, previously two friendly targets.
Soul Siphon (Soul Shred morph):
This morph now heals and applies the Major Vitality buff to yourself as well as your allies.

SORC

Summon Twilight Matriarch (Summon Winged Twilight morph):
This pet’s special ability will now cause it to heal itself and up to 2 friendly targets for 20% of your maximum Magicka.
Unstable Clannfear (Unstable Familiar morph):
This pet’s special ability will now heal you and the Clannfear for 35% of your maximum Health

I call this re-balancing classes in order to get similar healing output.
ALL THE CLASSES have something dedicated to healing STOP thinking templars as the only healers of the game, only because you have an ultimate dedicated to healing (and if i'm not wrong no one use it anymore).
Nerfing BOL ( with the consequential buff of other classes as seen above) was the right thing to do,FULL STOP.

So where is the re-balancing to get similar stealthing abilities? Similar tanking abilities? Similar magic DPS output? Similar physical DPS output? The fact is, each class does something better than the other classes, why should healing be any different? Why should the one class with an entire line dedicated to healing not be the best class for healing? The only way to have balanced classes in an MMO would be to do away with classes. Those whining for balance are just that, whiners.

Well that's hilarious the only thing i've been whining is to make magika DK's viable again in pvp... I was just giving my opinion in the CATASTROPHIC thread title but it seems that the whiners are just the templars who want to remain the ONLY GOOD choice for a 4 man group.

The fact that you are claiming that evry class is different and special BUT everything except healing (magika templar tanks are awesome like NB and Sorcerers, DK have only the root; like dps some classes are a little bit better ) in this game is quite balanced within the classes, is the proof that the only thing left was healing.

Bad English i hope is readable...

most templars i know have no problem with bol healing being nerfed, the point is the lack of compensation, temps are the stepchild in dps regardles of magica or stam, BoL is the most expensive spell of all classes a 25% healing reduction MUST go hand in hand with a 25% cost reduction.
simultaniously they intent to screw templar mana manegement by forcing them to stick into the tiniest ground effect of all classes WTF !!! you call this balancing? this is AS.S f.ucking temps and nothing else.

Well this is a good point;
Dps side i've a stamplar and i do almost 13-4k and thanks to the repetance i have almost unlimited resources so no stepchild here...
BOL side; calm down this is still the first pts patch and maybe if is not a " OMG ZOS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FXXK THIS SXXT IS UNPLAYABLE I'M LEAVING TOMORROW " type of thread they will listen

What makes you think they will listen when they have not for over 2 years. Then we see what worked for sorc and KB, bitching, crying, whining so much so they just fix their bugs the day after a patch now...

Essiaga · February 2016

Reposting from another thread on the subject.

The problem with Breath of Life and the nerf to it is the complete lack of damage mitigation in the Templar class ...

*Sun Shield Battle spirit nerfed to ineffective and inefficient.

*Blinding Flashes removed leaving us with out Miss Chance and nothing to replace it.

Other abilities such as Eclipse are weaker and more limited then skill versions. Cleansing Ritual was being used to absorb/negate spell projectile and this Update that will be remove as well.

So they nerfed Healing (5% really isn't much but) after nerfing our mitigation with out giving us another option to survive. Here is what I think the class needs to help both magicka and stamina builds.

- Add Maim debuff Solar Barrage

- Add Evasion to Rune Focus (but let it STAY with the templar outside the run)

- Nerf Harden Ward (since its not really used out side PVP) down to its PVP size and remove the nerf to Shields from Battle Spirit. Sun Shield (GDB and Igneous Shield) becomes useful again.

Stam Build could use, at the very least, the last two to help their survival even if they cost magicka. Though the do need some stamina love (Jabs should have Brutality buff instead of Savagery and a Stam Charge morph at the least.)

Then talk to us about removing Healing and nerfing BOL. Right now its the only in class skill that keeps us alive. That's why Templars go Vamp. We don't really need more DPS. We need to be able to survive long enough to DPS you down. We don't need Mobility to run away. We need the mitigation to "stand our ground."

This update will only further identify us as the "stand your groud class" with "fixes" to Rune Focus so that the effects are sure to wear off immediately upon leaving the Rune. It also nerfed Puncturing Strikes(jabs) healing by 5% claiming that the Mending buff applied when standing in Rune or Cleansing Ritual will make up for it, which means it will need to be recast over and over for either a net magicka loss or a net healing loss. Its impractical to stand inside Rune in PVP and increasing more impractical in PVE content.

ZOS changed buffed useless skills to be slightly less useless, but still not worth using. The failed to improve our Passives which provide no regen or stat increase and are lame by the other 3 classes standards.

Short of some added mitigation and passive regen this balance update is an absolute flop for the templar and does nothing to balance the classes. Giving everyone the same DPS statistically in PVE does not equate to balance in classes.

PVE healers will not be killed by this update. PVP won't be that much worse off.But when your worse off then you were which was tied for last in PVP and the class/build you shared that spot with got some solid work down to them and no really negatives it becomes increasingly frustrating. Especially when you look at what the NB class became with the last balance update that came out. We spelled it out for them in a 20 page thread and we got very little to go with the stuff the took away leaving us with the feeling that we're going to be at the bottom for another year before ZOS looks at class "Balance" again.

This goes far beyond BOL and is far older then the day this patch notes were posted or PTS went live with TG.

Tankqull · February 2016

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Finally well' have more skilled healers around and not just templars even other classes will be able to do the healers now
(i've not tested my DK yet but since the "healing fist" has been buffed i believe it can easily crit above 15k in pts)

how does nerfing templars make other healers better? hrm?

It's quite simple my friend, finally OTHER CLASSES will be considered as good as templars, right now if you are not a templar healer ( mainly due to BOL that makes every templar a good healer) it will take days to join a group and no one except guildies want you.

Well, if this was the point of the "nerf" then why not just delete the entire restoration tree?? I'm so sick of reading "this is fair because now other classes will be as good". I'm sorry, BUT OTHER CLASSES DO NOT HAVE AN ENTIRE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING.

Other classes should NOT be as good, FULL STOP.

If that is, indeed what the community wants, then get rid of the freaking tree all together and give templars something else to make them a unique class....

From the nach potes

DK

Sea of Flames (Inferno morph):
This morph has been renamed to Cauterize, and will now summon an Aura of Cauterizing Flames, launching a fireball at an ally to heal them instead of an enemy to damage them.
Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):
This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Obsidian Shield:
Igneous Shield's increased damage shield effect is now a baseline effect for Obsidian Shield.
Note: The Igneous Shield morph will continue to grant you the Major Mending buff as a morph effect.
Obsidian Shard (Stonefist morph):
Increased the healing from this morph by 16%.

NB

Bolstering Darkness (Consuming Darkness morph):
Increased the healing from the Hidden Refresh synergy from this morph by 20%.
Refreshing Path (Path of Darkness morph):
Reduced the time this morph continues to heal yourself and allies to 2 seconds after leaving the path, down from 3 seconds.
Funnel Health (Strife morph):
Reduced the application of the heal over time to you and one additional friendly target, previously two friendly targets.
Soul Siphon (Soul Shred morph):
This morph now heals and applies the Major Vitality buff to yourself as well as your allies.

SORC

Summon Twilight Matriarch (Summon Winged Twilight morph):
This pet’s special ability will now cause it to heal itself and up to 2 friendly targets for 20% of your maximum Magicka.
Unstable Clannfear (Unstable Familiar morph):
This pet’s special ability will now heal you and the Clannfear for 35% of your maximum Health

I call this re-balancing classes in order to get similar healing output.
ALL THE CLASSES have something dedicated to healing STOP thinking templars as the only healers of the game, only because you have an ultimate dedicated to healing (and if i'm not wrong no one use it anymore).
Nerfing BOL ( with the consequential buff of other classes as seen above) was the right thing to do,FULL STOP.

So where is the re-balancing to get similar stealthing abilities? Similar tanking abilities? Similar magic DPS output? Similar physical DPS output? The fact is, each class does something better than the other classes, why should healing be any different? Why should the one class with an entire line dedicated to healing not be the best class for healing? The only way to have balanced classes in an MMO would be to do away with classes. Those whining for balance are just that, whiners.

Well that's hilarious the only thing i've been whining is to make magika DK's viable again in pvp... I was just giving my opinion in the CATASTROPHIC thread title but it seems that the whiners are just the templars who want to remain the ONLY GOOD choice for a 4 man group.

The fact that you are claiming that evry class is different and special BUT everything except healing (magika templar tanks are awesome like NB and Sorcerers, DK have only the root; like dps some classes are a little bit better ) in this game is quite balanced within the classes, is the proof that the only thing left was healing.

Bad English i hope is readable...

Which class is the best tank? The best magic DPS? The best stamina DPS? I'm sure a class popped up first in most people's mind. Why should all classes be perfectly balanced when it comes to healing? Templars stand out in healing. Sure, they CAN do good DPS and they CAN tank, but on that same note, other classes CAN heal. Why should templars have an entire line dedicated to healing but not heal any better than classes that have one healing spell?

If healing is to be balanced, then templars need their healing line removed and replaced with something useful. They shouldn't need an entire line only to heal as well or just marginally better than other classes.

Have you ever done a 3 dps run with 1 templar magika tank that tanks and also heal the whole group thanks to BOL spam? no other class can do that... and if you ask me it is a little OP.

The real problem that i see with BOL is that everyone (dd's and tanks) are too much used to it and anything else except templars are just not welcome, because, if a DK healer or a NB healer join the group then they (dd's and tanks) need to start to think at how avoid a little more damage or the big red circles, they need to stay close to the healer and a lot of other stuff.

I am one of those in favour of buffs because nerfs don’t help the game, but the Zenimax had already the hammer so why not use it?

And if you ask me the BOL nerf it was made ONLY to make the new content more difficult (or at least is this what i'm starting to think) the re- balance is a way to hide all the group content difficulty stealth buff.

yes aswell as i did with a magica tank dk and a magica NB tank healing the group while the 3 other (not one was a magica templar) were DDs. as i do not know a sorc tank anymore due to stamina regain issues i cant say if it would be possible as easy as with DK, NB or templar tank/heal hybrid.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Finally well' have more skilled healers around and not just templars even other classes will be able to do the healers now
(i've not tested my DK yet but since the "healing fist" has been buffed i believe it can easily crit above 15k in pts)

how does nerfing templars make other healers better? hrm?

It's quite simple my friend, finally OTHER CLASSES will be considered as good as templars, right now if you are not a templar healer ( mainly due to BOL that makes every templar a good healer) it will take days to join a group and no one except guildies want you.

Well, if this was the point of the "nerf" then why not just delete the entire restoration tree?? I'm so sick of reading "this is fair because now other classes will be as good". I'm sorry, BUT OTHER CLASSES DO NOT HAVE AN ENTIRE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING.

Other classes should NOT be as good, FULL STOP.

If that is, indeed what the community wants, then get rid of the freaking tree all together and give templars something else to make them a unique class....

From the nach potes

DK

Sea of Flames (Inferno morph):
This morph has been renamed to Cauterize, and will now summon an Aura of Cauterizing Flames, launching a fireball at an ally to heal them instead of an enemy to damage them.
Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):
This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Obsidian Shield:
Igneous Shield's increased damage shield effect is now a baseline effect for Obsidian Shield.
Note: The Igneous Shield morph will continue to grant you the Major Mending buff as a morph effect.
Obsidian Shard (Stonefist morph):
Increased the healing from this morph by 16%.

NB

Bolstering Darkness (Consuming Darkness morph):
Increased the healing from the Hidden Refresh synergy from this morph by 20%.
Refreshing Path (Path of Darkness morph):
Reduced the time this morph continues to heal yourself and allies to 2 seconds after leaving the path, down from 3 seconds.
Funnel Health (Strife morph):
Reduced the application of the heal over time to you and one additional friendly target, previously two friendly targets.
Soul Siphon (Soul Shred morph):
This morph now heals and applies the Major Vitality buff to yourself as well as your allies.

SORC

Summon Twilight Matriarch (Summon Winged Twilight morph):
This pet’s special ability will now cause it to heal itself and up to 2 friendly targets for 20% of your maximum Magicka.
Unstable Clannfear (Unstable Familiar morph):
This pet’s special ability will now heal you and the Clannfear for 35% of your maximum Health

I call this re-balancing classes in order to get similar healing output.
ALL THE CLASSES have something dedicated to healing STOP thinking templars as the only healers of the game, only because you have an ultimate dedicated to healing (and if i'm not wrong no one use it anymore).
Nerfing BOL ( with the consequential buff of other classes as seen above) was the right thing to do,FULL STOP.

So where is the re-balancing to get similar stealthing abilities? Similar tanking abilities? Similar magic DPS output? Similar physical DPS output? The fact is, each class does something better than the other classes, why should healing be any different? Why should the one class with an entire line dedicated to healing not be the best class for healing? The only way to have balanced classes in an MMO would be to do away with classes. Those whining for balance are just that, whiners.

Well that's hilarious the only thing i've been whining is to make magika DK's viable again in pvp... I was just giving my opinion in the CATASTROPHIC thread title but it seems that the whiners are just the templars who want to remain the ONLY GOOD choice for a 4 man group.

The fact that you are claiming that evry class is different and special BUT everything except healing (magika templar tanks are awesome like NB and Sorcerers, DK have only the root; like dps some classes are a little bit better ) in this game is quite balanced within the classes, is the proof that the only thing left was healing.

Bad English i hope is readable...

Which class is the best tank? The best magic DPS? The best stamina DPS? I'm sure a class popped up first in most people's mind. Why should all classes be perfectly balanced when it comes to healing? Templars stand out in healing. Sure, they CAN do good DPS and they CAN tank, but on that same note, other classes CAN heal. Why should templars have an entire line dedicated to healing but not heal any better than classes that have one healing spell?

If healing is to be balanced, then templars need their healing line removed and replaced with something useful. They shouldn't need an entire line only to heal as well or just marginally better than other classes.

Have you ever done a 3 dps run with 1 templar magika tank that tanks and also heal the whole group thanks to BOL spam? no other class can do that... and if you ask me it is a little OP.

The real problem that i see with BOL is that everyone (dd's and tanks) are too much used to it and anything else except templars are just not welcome, because, if a DK healer or a NB healer join the group then they (dd's and tanks) need to start to think at how avoid a little more damage or the big red circles, they need to stay close to the healer and a lot of other stuff.

I am one of those in favour of buffs because nerfs don’t help the game, but the Zenimax had already the hammer so why not use it?

And if you ask me the BOL nerf it was made ONLY to make the new content more difficult (or at least is this what i'm starting to think) the re- balance is a way to hide all the group content difficulty stealth buff.

i disagree. i run dungeons quite often as a DK tank with a friend who is a magicka dk and 2 orther dps. all the magicka dk has to do is trow in healing springs and i can tank most bosses. so he suffers almost no dps while i can tank all day with group aoe the *** out of the mobs. is this OP no it's called teamwork and knowing the mechanics of your class and bosses

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Iove wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Iove wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Iove wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Reposting because it is relevant.

Temps having a skill line dedicated to healing yes, but it is mostly baked in utility. All that says is that potentially, a templar healer did not necessarily have to rely on a resto staff.

Flexibility, i know crazy right?

The problem with alot of people in this game is they want to shoe horn each class into a specific role and call it a day. Its obvious the devs do not want this now and never have.

DKs have mitigation skills that can also be achieved through s/b, undaunted and armor skills

Templars have healing and utility that can also be achieved through resto staff, and undaunted (for the exception of stam regen, unique perks that each class brings?! how insane!)

DK healers have igneous plus BoR (amazing that they specifically dont need combat prayer since they have mountains blessing passive right?). Major mending tied to igneous is a very intentional utility and finally a support ultimate that is much easier to use and benefits multiple players.

NB funnel health nerfed down to one target? same nerf as BoL, interesting is it not? Refreshing path is receiving a very nice buff in potency and now NBs have access to major mending. Couple that with one of the best group mitigation ultimates in the game and the unique ability to deal damage and provide good healing at the same time (unique perks that each class brings?! how insane!)

Look, at the end of the day the blame lies squarely on ZOS. They facilitated for the longest time a group environment that suggested templars should be the only real healers based purely on balance oversight and lack of communication to less informed players that may see templar and go "hey this class has a skill line that is focused on healing that means they must be the healers in this mmo!". What festered was a mindest that players with a templar healer could mostly play like jack asses ie. not worry about stacking or a slightly less emphasis on syngerizing while being showered with BoL via ESOs not so glorious smart cast heals.

The notion became things like "why bother coordinating and whatnot when templars can just do their thing while i do mine". You know something is wrong when a group gets annoyed (unfortunately rightfully so in the games current state) when you go in as a NB healer for example and say something along the lines of "hey guys, make sure to stay close more often than not for trash pulls so sap essence gets you covered" or "do not forget to activate bone shield and Orb if you need mana". Players want to put in the least effort possible and nerfing BoL and funnel health and giving major mending to resto staff users universally is an obvious step in a direction that this game desperately needs, interactive hands on healing as opposed to passive healing. BoL, funnel health and ward ally all share a similar application and that is not a coincidence.

Templars are not "The healing class" of ESO and i promise you that you will see more changes going forward that will put most classes in line for the role.

On a small side note, the most recent and most satisfying group experience i had was when doing vWGT the other day with a nightblade healer and our group all acknowledged the unique strengths of the NB healer and played to them as a whole.

What?

Ok let me break it down for you.

Resto skill line skills:

1. A heal that does nothing else
2. A heal that is situational
3. An aura than most classes have anyway.
4. A heal over time/cleanse.
5. Small armor buff thingy that you have to stand in.
6. An effing heal. That no one uses. A WASTED ULTIMATE.
7. Healing passives!

Tell me another class that has a skill line with 4 heals in it?

Now tell me more how Templars should not be the best healers, with things as they stand.

HOWEVER, IF
If they remove the healing skill line and replace it with a mix of skills, damage, support, group shields, mobility and a new ultimate, then Templars won't be the healing class and I won't be angry!

was my post not clear? you seem to have this difficulty understanding that simply because you have a skill line dedicated to healing that does not make you the defacto healer in this game. Seeing as there are only 4 base classes here that would be absurd. This game is not designed that way, and as i have mentioned ZOS kind of messed and its obvious they are moving in the direction of templars not being the primary healer in this game, and rightfully so.

If they really wanted templars to be the end all healers without question then they would have went full on with Restoring light skill line and omitted a restoration staff weapon from the game entirely.

You do not need to break down anything and its evident you really didnt even read my post past the first sentence. Restoring light is absolutely a dedicated skill line for healing, no one in their right mind would argue that. Also worth noting is that there are a large amount of templar healers that dont even use resto staff when properly geared.

ZOS does not want a rigid linear class make up tied to the trinity, if you cant understand and accept that then i dont know what else to say.

No I didn't misread, I just think you're crazy.
Templars are now a gimped class with a useless skill line but you think it's right.
Wow.

if you are going to reduce my point down to that then its clear you have no interest in an actual dialogue.

I like to get to the point. As a Templar healer, whatever healing changes they give to other classes don't mean a thing to me? I just care about being gimped, with a useless skill tree. Because if everyone will now heal the same, I demand the same mobility, strong passives and more variety in skills like the other classes! While we're at it, give them all stealth because every class must have fair access to everything right? I now wanna stealth gank people in PvP and I can't. QQ.

you can enter sneak -> use bow. so you can ;D

Mush55 · February 2016

Welcome to the new Templar description

Jack of all trades, Master of none.......

Tonnopesce · February 2016

Dredlord wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Finally well' have more skilled healers around and not just templars even other classes will be able to do the healers now
(i've not tested my DK yet but since the "healing fist" has been buffed i believe it can easily crit above 15k in pts)

how does nerfing templars make other healers better? hrm?

It's quite simple my friend, finally OTHER CLASSES will be considered as good as templars, right now if you are not a templar healer ( mainly due to BOL that makes every templar a good healer) it will take days to join a group and no one except guildies want you.

Well, if this was the point of the "nerf" then why not just delete the entire restoration tree?? I'm so sick of reading "this is fair because now other classes will be as good". I'm sorry, BUT OTHER CLASSES DO NOT HAVE AN ENTIRE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING.

Other classes should NOT be as good, FULL STOP.

If that is, indeed what the community wants, then get rid of the freaking tree all together and give templars something else to make them a unique class....

From the nach potes

DK

Sea of Flames (Inferno morph):
This morph has been renamed to Cauterize, and will now summon an Aura of Cauterizing Flames, launching a fireball at an ally to heal them instead of an enemy to damage them.
Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):
This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Obsidian Shield:
Igneous Shield's increased damage shield effect is now a baseline effect for Obsidian Shield.
Note: The Igneous Shield morph will continue to grant you the Major Mending buff as a morph effect.
Obsidian Shard (Stonefist morph):
Increased the healing from this morph by 16%.

NB

Bolstering Darkness (Consuming Darkness morph):
Increased the healing from the Hidden Refresh synergy from this morph by 20%.
Refreshing Path (Path of Darkness morph):
Reduced the time this morph continues to heal yourself and allies to 2 seconds after leaving the path, down from 3 seconds.
Funnel Health (Strife morph):
Reduced the application of the heal over time to you and one additional friendly target, previously two friendly targets.
Soul Siphon (Soul Shred morph):
This morph now heals and applies the Major Vitality buff to yourself as well as your allies.

SORC

Summon Twilight Matriarch (Summon Winged Twilight morph):
This pet’s special ability will now cause it to heal itself and up to 2 friendly targets for 20% of your maximum Magicka.
Unstable Clannfear (Unstable Familiar morph):
This pet’s special ability will now heal you and the Clannfear for 35% of your maximum Health

I call this re-balancing classes in order to get similar healing output.
ALL THE CLASSES have something dedicated to healing STOP thinking templars as the only healers of the game, only because you have an ultimate dedicated to healing (and if i'm not wrong no one use it anymore).
Nerfing BOL ( with the consequential buff of other classes as seen above) was the right thing to do,FULL STOP.

So where is the re-balancing to get similar stealthing abilities? Similar tanking abilities? Similar magic DPS output? Similar physical DPS output? The fact is, each class does something better than the other classes, why should healing be any different? Why should the one class with an entire line dedicated to healing not be the best class for healing? The only way to have balanced classes in an MMO would be to do away with classes. Those whining for balance are just that, whiners.

Well that's hilarious the only thing i've been whining is to make magika DK's viable again in pvp... I was just giving my opinion in the CATASTROPHIC thread title but it seems that the whiners are just the templars who want to remain the ONLY GOOD choice for a 4 man group.

The fact that you are claiming that evry class is different and special BUT everything except healing (magika templar tanks are awesome like NB and Sorcerers, DK have only the root; like dps some classes are a little bit better ) in this game is quite balanced within the classes, is the proof that the only thing left was healing.

Bad English i hope is readable...

most templars i know have no problem with bol healing being nerfed, the point is the lack of compensation, temps are the stepchild in dps regardles of magica or stam, BoL is the most expensive spell of all classes a 25% healing reduction MUST go hand in hand with a 25% cost reduction.
simultaniously they intent to screw templar mana manegement by forcing them to stick into the tiniest ground effect of all classes WTF !!! you call this balancing? this is AS.S f.ucking temps and nothing else.

Well this is a good point;
Dps side i've a stamplar and i do almost 13-4k and thanks to the repetance i have almost unlimited resources so no stepchild here...
BOL side; calm down this is still the first pts patch and maybe if is not a " OMG ZOS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FXXK THIS SXXT IS UNPLAYABLE I'M LEAVING TOMORROW " type of thread they will listen

What makes you think they will listen when they have not for over 2 years. Then we see what worked for sorc and KB, bitching, crying, whining so much so they just fix their bugs the day after a patch now...

You know maybe doing a post in the Templar section thread of the PTS forum without coming in the central plaza yelling.

Hand_Bacon · February 2016

For tanking, do Templars have a return resource mechanism, beyond the tiny little rune thingy?

Dks, have ultimate and earthen heart abilities that return stam/resources.

NBs have siphoning attacks. (which are getting *** this patch)

Sorcs? I don't play one yet, so I don't know. Anything I type here would be second hand knowledge.

Talwyn_Aureliano · February 2016

This will mean a massive decrease in the numbers of people playing templars

UrQuan · February 2016

Talwyn_Aureliano wrote: »

This will mean a massive decrease in the numbers of people playing templars

Well, I don't know about that. I'm still going to be playing my templars just as much as before. What it does mean for me is I'm not going to be healing PUGs anymore. I'll still group up with friends and guildies for dungeon runs, but this change will stop me from doing PUGs. I suspect it will stop a lot of templars from doing PUGs.

Fruitmass · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Talwyn_Aureliano wrote: »

This will mean a massive decrease in the numbers of people playing templars

Well, I don't know about that. I'm still going to be playing my templars just as much as before. What it does mean for me is I'm not going to be healing PUGs anymore. I'll still group up with friends and guildies for dungeon runs, but this change will stop me from doing PUGs. I suspect it will stop a lot of templars from doing PUGs.

Shame about that too. Fool that I am I'm going to keep on PuGing along as always because that's just how I am but I gotta tell you I'm dreading the inevitable s*** storm that's gonna hit if/when the change goes live. Won't matter that ZOS just handicapped me, I'm gonna take the flack because folks will still expect things to go on as they always have.

Instead of "hm maybe I should be more careful" it's gonna be " just spam moar brah!"

me_ming · February 2016

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

Let's just hope that when in a 4- or 12- man content where everyone is taking damage more than 60% of their health, you are the one getting the extra BoL, because if not, I'm pretty sure you're dead, because this time you don't get to blame your healer for not healing you in time.

If everyone is taking 60% of his hp in dmg and you expect heal it with BOL you are doing it wrong. Healing springs is way better and promotes awareness for dps. Green circle life, otside circle death. I can't imagine how many templars you would need in poison phase in the serpent.

My BoL can heal for 21k (that's without me casting Purifying Ritual), I can literally heal people with 18-19k health to full health with one BoL. Healing Springs is ideal for 12-man trials as the more people you heal the more magicka is returned to you, and there are more instances where people need to stack up, like in your example, poison phase of serpent. And unless you run SO day in and day out, then by all means go ahead and slot Healing Springs. Don't get me wrong, I love healing springs, but it's situational, and if the dungeon/instance requires you to move around, healing springs is crap. But you cannot argue how BoL is applicable to most if not all scenarios, when it comes to healing.

I have a redguard templar healer, yea I know its not a breton or high elf. But she can SOLO heal the Manticora fight in SO, if my group is stacked and we do the 100% burn method on Manti...With just healing springs. I could never think of doing this with BOL, I'd run out of magicka and people would start dropping like flies around me.

Hell, thats the bread and butter for other healer builds, healing springs can keep 12 people alive, even though its AOE capped at 6 players. Healing springs not crap, thats a flat out lie. BOL isn't OP. Thats just a sad nerf that came because 1vX streamer wanted to kill templar healers but can't because their builds cant burst down a templar healer. Disappointed in you ZOS.

It's obvious you did not read my entire message. I did say, Healing Springs is more useful in 12-man trials. I use it as my primary heal in SO, AA and HRC. Let's see you heal with Healing Springs in vWGT or vICP. So yes, in those situations Healing Springs is crap. lol. Please read properly before commenting. Thank you.

Steel_Brightblade · February 2016

Not sure I get this, so templer healing ability is being brought into line with other classes yet their dps potential is not being raised to put them in line with other classes.

Islyn · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Talwyn_Aureliano wrote: »

This will mean a massive decrease in the numbers of people playing templars

Well, I don't know about that. I'm still going to be playing my templars just as much as before. What it does mean for me is I'm not going to be healing PUGs anymore. I'll still group up with friends and guildies for dungeon runs, but this change will stop me from doing PUGs. I suspect it will stop a lot of templars from doing PUGs.

Agree like a mofo xD

Zavus · February 2016

I can't believe healing ritual was nerfed though, like who even slots that skill to begin with why nerf it?

UrQuan · February 2016

Zavus wrote: »

I can't believe healing ritual was nerfed though, like who even slots that skill to begin with why nerf it?

Healing Ritual wasn't nerfed, it was buffed! Because sure, they reduced the heal from it, but they also reduced the cast time for it so that people would actually cast it! Except that the cast time is still way too long for anyone to consider ever using it... So, um, it went from being a useless, never-slotted skill to being a slightly different useless, never-slotted skill. Yay?

Fruitmass · February 2016

Zavus wrote: »

I can't believe healing ritual was nerfed though, like who even slots that skill to begin with why nerf it?

Indeed. That's flat out wtf if there ever was one.

Dredlord · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Zavus wrote: »

I can't believe healing ritual was nerfed though, like who even slots that skill to begin with why nerf it?

Healing Ritual wasn't nerfed, it was buffed! Because sure, they reduced the heal from it, but they also reduced the cast time for it so that people would actually cast it! Except that the cast time is still way too long for anyone to consider ever using it... So, um, it went from being a useless, never-slotted skill to being a slightly different useless, never-slotted skill. Yay?

Dont forget it is 25% less efficient now, no reduction in cost for 25% less healing

moesmaker · February 2016

Mush55 wrote: »

Welcome to the new Templar description

Jack of all trades, Master of none.......

I like the Jack of all trades part

The Master of none... I don't care

Conclusion: new Templar description is ok for me

RedRoomGaming · February 2016

I whined and bitched about BoL but then thought there are other skills in that tree that make you work at wanting to be a healer. Instead of spamming it, time your heals properly and correct

avelopolcakb14a_ESO · February 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

Iove wrote: »

munkt0r wrote: »

I hear where you're coming from, but don't you see how such is antithetical to the heart of a true RPG?

I got this game thinking it would be more to the core of RPG's in general, with strict class identity separation...not mix and match flavor text abilities.

I'm having fun in dungeons playing "my way" as a templar tank, but I know I won't be delving deep into other classes as there really isn't much difference between them all. The community seems to want each class to be capable of what every other class can do.

I just want them to either leave Templar as the best healer class, as it has been for 2 years and some people have rolled it just to heal, or give us a new skill line to match what other classes have if we are supposed to be equal.

For the sake of fairness...

I also happen to think each class can have their thing and so what. There are many examples of classes that have unique abilities and strengths.

But ZOS right now are trying to level healing to be same for all classes but leave Templars with the same healing skill line??? So we have a whole thing of useless skills and weak passives, if restoration staff is all we should need. Oh dear.

You understand that for another class to heal as reliably as a Templar, they are bound to the resto staff.

It has nothing to do with fairness and that fact that you are trying to throw all classes perks into a vacuum of comparison shows how off base you or your train of thought is. Your logic works in an mmo with far more specs and classes that are specifically designed.

This game treats weapon skill lines much different and much more then simple tools for a class. You asked what other class has a skill line dedicated to healing. The answer to that is the restoration staff.

Wether or not templar healing is gimped is an entirely seperate issue than the one regarding the fact that templars should not be balanced around being the sole healer in this game. You are conveniently ignoring the sacrifices other classes have to make in order to fill the healing role.

What sacrifice do other classes have to make that a templar does not? Have you even played a templar healer? You pick 2 and exactly 2 abilities from the Healing line and the rest comes from the resto staff. BoL and Cleansing ritual are the two abilities worth their salt from the templar line. The rest are trash and easily replaceable by any other skill. They are also not so unique in their execution as to completely trump any other class skills another class might choose. I don't see how a sorcerer with wards or a nightblade with funnel health or any of the other lifestealing abilities "sacrifices a lot" in order to become a healer. You slot healing abilities just like the templar does. Templar healers aren't any different in this respect and I have no idea what you are even trying to say.

sagitter · February 2016

Cloak is going to nerf much harder than bol, also nb got nerfed funnel health, you'll see next patch of many cloak whine thread there will be. You can't understand if you haven't tryed it on pts.