Mandatory Tutorial for Tank/Heals/DPS before you can Q for that desired role....

TalonKnight · February 2016

Ok 1st of I want to state that I have played many mmos as tank, and heals.... Those being wow, swtor, GW2 (even though gw2 does not count haha), neverwinter, and so on....

With that said I would like a new player to mmos to understand that the learning process to those roles is very demanding. What I think the main problem in ESO dungeon groups is, is the fact, (at least on xbox 1, and ps4), that most console players have not played much in the way of mmos, and do not have the the desired teaching to b a viable member of atleast a descent group.

1. Ok this is Im sure, where alot of you would say this is your time to teach, and YES I would agree with u, but if u play on the xbox 1, or ps4, im sure u already know how many anti social people Q for a PUG. (please dont tell me to get with a guild then, cause this topic is about teaching new comers VIA in game.)

2. What I suggest is once you are the correct level to Q for a dungeon, and u choose a desired role (only 1 at a time until the tutorial of each has been completed of course), you then are put into a tutorial Q for that desired role, which has to be completed at a passable level in order for u to Q for that role. (nothing too demanding, but passable for that role.)

3. I know there are many things in this game that need to be fixed, and this would take away resources from those things to be implemented, but lets face it, most non PC/MAC mmoers, do not have much of a clue on how to fulfill a dedicated role to be a viable team member in a dungeon group, and it is MORE the developers job to implement ways for the player to understand the game then it is for the subscribing/paying players. (not everything should be explained but atleast a base line tutorial that if cant be completed, that person would not be allowed to Q for that certain role.)

This is the only thing that I think could b done to teach those anti social people how to play.... What are u alls thoughts?

Artjuh90 · February 2016

so a console player is basicly just *** with no understanding of roles. lawl

NewBlacksmurf · February 2016

So I like the thought process but to me, it just needs to be a forced skill bar selection of 3 or more healing skills for healer role. Once placed on the bar they are locked on and can only be moved around.

For tanks....IDK because every encounter doesn't require a tank and not all benefit from a pure tank but healers should have a few heals rdy but as ZOS keeps needing Templars and not buffing Rejuvenate staff....I'm not clear on their overall intent of the so called trinity which doesn't seem to apply in this game

vyrusb23 · February 2016

TalonKnight wrote: »

What are u alls thoughts?

I think it's a terrible idea.

myrrrorb14_ESO · February 2016

Not sure this would help with all the bad PUG tank/healers or the people who Q with no intention of fulfilling that role. But at least with a basic tutorial they would know the basics on how to do it.

So yeah. Why not.

xellink · February 2016

forced teamwork

Ragnarock1982 · February 2016

I agree and disagree.

I'm new to mmo's and haven't yet ventured into pvp and/or dungeons. I would like to go through a tutorial, much like the start of the game 'tutorial'.

I am the kinda person who would also take hints and tips from people in order for me to improve.

The only other mmo I played was neverwinter, but only really did the missions.

However, and this is a big however, I have found in the past that a lot if players become abusive when you dont play thier way. If everyone would be more social it might be ok, but this will never happen. If I dont fully understand a build, or how to do a dungeon/work as a team, as I've never done it before, even after a tutorial, then id be really upset if someone had a go and said "go learn how to effin play"

TalonKnight · February 2016

Ragnarock1982 wrote: »

I agree and disagree.

I'm new to mmo's and haven't yet ventured into pvp and/or dungeons. I would like to go through a tutorial, much like the start of the game 'tutorial'.

I am the kinda person who would also take hints and tips from people in order for me to improve.

The only other mmo I played was neverwinter, but only really did the missions.

However, and this is a big however, I have found in the past that a lot if players become abusive when you dont play thier way. If everyone would be more social it might be ok, but this will never happen. If I dont fully understand a build, or how to do a dungeon/work as a team, as I've never done it before, even after a tutorial, then id be really upset if someone had a go and said "go learn how to effin play"

Would love to help u play the desired role u choose, Im on xbox 1 EP NA, gamer tag v7 KNIGHT 7v

Ragnarock1982 · February 2016

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ragnarock1982 wrote: »

I agree and disagree.

I'm new to mmo's and haven't yet ventured into pvp and/or dungeons. I would like to go through a tutorial, much like the start of the game 'tutorial'.

I am the kinda person who would also take hints and tips from people in order for me to improve.

The only other mmo I played was neverwinter, but only really did the missions.

However, and this is a big however, I have found in the past that a lot if players become abusive when you dont play thier way. If everyone would be more social it might be ok, but this will never happen. If I dont fully understand a build, or how to do a dungeon/work as a team, as I've never done it before, even after a tutorial, then id be really upset if someone had a go and said "go learn how to effin play"

Would love to help u play the desired role u choose, Im on xbox 1 EP NA, gamer tag v7 KNIGHT 7v

Cheers, on xbox but playin on eu server.

Hand_Bacon · February 2016

Tutorials are usually crapola.

The best tutorials are usually players helping players. If people don't like to help people, who might be struggling, then they are doomed to having people who can't help them by filling those roles.

Reciprocity at its best.

Ragnarock1982 · February 2016

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

The best tutorials are usually players helping players. If people don't like to help people, who might be struggling, then they are doomed to having people who can't help them by filling those roles

If only all gamers shared your point of view...

TalonKnight · February 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I like the thought process but to me, it just needs to be a forced skill bar selection of 3 or more healing skills for healer role. Once placed on the bar they are locked on and can only be moved around.

For tanks....IDK because every encounter doesn't require a tank and not all benefit from a pure tank but healers should have a few heals rdy but as ZOS keeps needing Templars and not buffing Rejuvenate staff....I'm not clear on their overall intent of the so called trinity which doesn't seem to apply in this game

I understand what u r sayin, but I heal many pugs with just 2 heals on my bar, healing springs spam, and healing ward, but I get your point, cause i dont know how many low lev temps i have played with, that had a 2 handed sword equipped with just Bol slotted as a heal.

failkiwib16_ESO · February 2016

Q.Q I wish we could have one for PC too.

I have met a long list of players, who were terrified of group activity in this game.. some because they had only been playing singleplayer games before ESO, others because they were PvP players who tried out group play 1-2 times and got very bad experiences.

A simple tutorial for group play would really help these players a lot, and the overall community would be much better when Q'ng for dungeons.

idk · February 2016

A tutorial would be pointless since "spacebar" gets you through it fast.

What you are suggesting is the role a guild would supply but of course the player needs to be in a guild with other players that have a decent skill. The game cannot supply this information properly.

KochDerDamonen · February 2016

We just need a slowly scrolling paragraph that pops up when you select a role, and that can't be accepted until you let it play out naturally.

"I solemnly agree to hold the attention ("hold aggro") of the various monsters and ne'er-do-wells in this grouped player versus environment instance (mobs in this PvE dungeon)...."

Jokes aside, I really do enjoy pulling friends/guildmates who avoid group content because they're afraid of their performance into a dungeon and helping them get a grip on what it is they want to do and how they can do it in a manner that's serviceable to a group. I don't really see the game being able to fulfill this role automatically, unfortunately.

nimander99 · February 2016

I think we should have a mandatory tutorial for people before they can post on forums. Not picking on your post in general... just saying.

Ragnarock1982 · February 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

I think we should have a mandatory tutorial for people before they can post on forums. Not picking on your post in general... just saying.

I'd probably fail. Lol

munkt0r · February 2016

To be fair, MMO's didn't pioneer the concept of group combat with the 4 archetypes (tank/heal/Magic DPS/Melee DPS)

D&D did.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

so a console player is basicly just *** with no understanding of roles. lawl

Apparently they never learned how to spell either...

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok 1st of I want to state that I have played many mmos as tank, and heals.... Those being wow, swtor, GW2 (even though gw2 does not count haha), neverwinter, and so on....

With that said I would like a new player to mmos to understand that the learning process to those roles is very demanding. What I think the main problem in ESO dungeon groups is, is the fact, (at least on xbox 1, and ps4), that most console players have not played much in the way of mmos, and do not have the the desired teaching to b a viable member of atleast a descent group.

1. Ok this is Im sure, where alot of you would say this is your time to teach, and YES I would agree with u, but if u play on the xbox 1, or ps4, im sure u already know how many anti social people Q for a PUG. (please dont tell me to get with a guild then, cause this topic is about teaching new comers VIA in game.)

2. What I suggest is once you are the correct level to Q for a dungeon, and u choose a desired role (only 1 at a time until the tutorial of each has been completed of course), you then are put into a tutorial Q for that desired role, which has to be completed at a passable level in order for u to Q for that role. (nothing too demanding, but passable for that role.)

3. I know there are many things in this game that need to be fixed, and this would take away resources from those things to be implemented, but lets face it, most non PC/MAC mmoers, do not have much of a clue on how to fulfill a dedicated role to be a viable team member in a dungeon group, and it is MORE the developers job to implement ways for the player to understand the game then it is for the subscribing/paying players. (not everything should be explained but atleast a base line tutorial that if cant be completed, that person would not be allowed to Q for that certain role.)

This is the only thing that I think could b done to teach those anti social people how to play.... What are u alls thoughts?

Malsidius · February 2016

It is an interesting point - the one regarding console users as basically noobs to the MMORPG genre compared to PC/MAC users. Also, the Elder Scroll brand was originally just a solo RPG...which makes ESO on the console sort of unique compared to the console games. A mandatory tutorial is not a good idea - but there is an issue with playing HOWEVER you like.

I find that some players use the same skill set up for when the would solo or PVP in a group PVE run. I see some DPS Templars casting BOL, when they should be focusing on damage. What made the learning curve in WoW so simple, there was a skill tree. You couldn't just put your points anywhere...but I don't want to rant about skill point distribution - the issue is team work. Tanks, DPS, and Healers need to work together. If you're going to DPS, then do some damage and quit healing & etc.

I know a lot of people have beef with healers who only cast BOL - as a Healer, I get it...you need me to throw shards or repentence, combat prayer & etc...I get it. Healers can do more, but it also depends on the group. I've had strangers praise me and friend me because they always want me to heal for them, and I've had guildmates whine because I wouldn't switch to a particular build.

The bottom line/point that I've trying to make, it all depends on the chemistry of your team. As a healer, I'll only speak to the noob healers...healing sucks - it's a thankless job, but our mission is to support the group. Your team needs health, stamina, and Magicka - and we're expected to provide it - but have fun, it's still a game; just KNOW YOUR ROLE! Lol. If you notice that you're in a group that doesn't suck, sure pull out some of your DPS skills and have a little fun OR pull out your DPS skills because, well lets face it some people can't DPS...but just don't spam healz.

idk · February 2016

Cannot compare this game to WoW. The trinity is not holy here. Yes, there are instances the trinity is needed but we can all heal ourselves here.

Did gold key CoH set to V16 with a tank and 3 dps. No healer. The tank takes decent damage holding the adds and there is decent raid wide damage almost constantly.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

so a console player is basicly just *** with no understanding of roles. lawl

Apparently they never learned how to spell either...

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok 1st of I want to state that I have played many mmos as tank, and heals.... Those being wow, swtor, GW2 (even though gw2 does not count haha), neverwinter, and so on....

With that said I would like a new player to mmos to understand that the learning process to those roles is very demanding. What I think the main problem in ESO dungeon groups is, is the fact, (at least on xbox 1, and ps4), that most console players have not played much in the way of mmos, and do not have the the desired teaching to b a viable member of atleast a descent group.

1. Ok this is Im sure, where alot of you would say this is your time to teach, and YES I would agree with u, but if u play on the xbox 1, or ps4, im sure u already know how many anti social people Q for a PUG. (please dont tell me to get with a guild then, cause this topic is about teaching new comers VIA in game.)

2. What I suggest is once you are the correct level to Q for a dungeon, and u choose a desired role (only 1 at a time until the tutorial of each has been completed of course), you then are put into a tutorial Q for that desired role, which has to be completed at a passable level in order for u to Q for that role. (nothing too demanding, but passable for that role.)

3. I know there are many things in this game that need to be fixed, and this would take away resources from those things to be implemented, but lets face it, most non PC/MAC mmoers, do not have much of a clue on how to fulfill a dedicated role to be a viable team member in a dungeon group, and it is MORE the developers job to implement ways for the player to understand the game then it is for the subscribing/paying players. (not everything should be explained but atleast a base line tutorial that if cant be completed, that person would not be allowed to Q for that certain role.)

This is the only thing that I think could b done to teach those anti social people how to play.... What are u alls thoughts?

ye not everyone is english.
sorry some people are dyslectic

xellink · February 2016

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

so a console player is basicly just *** with no understanding of roles. lawl

Apparently they never learned how to spell either...

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok 1st of I want to state that I have played many mmos as tank, and heals.... Those being wow, swtor, GW2 (even though gw2 does not count haha), neverwinter, and so on....

With that said I would like a new player to mmos to understand that the learning process to those roles is very demanding. What I think the main problem in ESO dungeon groups is, is the fact, (at least on xbox 1, and ps4), that most console players have not played much in the way of mmos, and do not have the the desired teaching to b a viable member of atleast a descent group.

1. Ok this is Im sure, where alot of you would say this is your time to teach, and YES I would agree with u, but if u play on the xbox 1, or ps4, im sure u already know how many anti social people Q for a PUG. (please dont tell me to get with a guild then, cause this topic is about teaching new comers VIA in game.)

2. What I suggest is once you are the correct level to Q for a dungeon, and u choose a desired role (only 1 at a time until the tutorial of each has been completed of course), you then are put into a tutorial Q for that desired role, which has to be completed at a passable level in order for u to Q for that role. (nothing too demanding, but passable for that role.)

3. I know there are many things in this game that need to be fixed, and this would take away resources from those things to be implemented, but lets face it, most non PC/MAC mmoers, do not have much of a clue on how to fulfill a dedicated role to be a viable team member in a dungeon group, and it is MORE the developers job to implement ways for the player to understand the game then it is for the subscribing/paying players. (not everything should be explained but atleast a base line tutorial that if cant be completed, that person would not be allowed to Q for that certain role.)

This is the only thing that I think could b done to teach those anti social people how to play.... What are u alls thoughts?

Probably typing on mobile? autocorrect can be annoying

catalyst10e · February 2016

I'll ask the obvious questionhere, but what stops someone from doing the tutorial and then changing their slots back to what it was pre-tutorial? What does the tutorial know about being a healer? Some healers int his game will swear you have to just heal HP, nothing more, nothing less, while others will state it's not just HP it's also buffs etc etc.

I get you don't like dealing with people who claim to be a healer when all they've slotted is healing ward, but this game is "play how you want" if I want to slot, some resto staff skills on my back bar and DPS on my main bar but slot in as healer that's my prerogative... Am I going to be an effective healer? probably not... not unless all my CP was put into healing stars.. But if that's the role I felt I could do in a random group, it's my choice. That's the risk you run with the group finder, why not instead of adding more annoyance and hindrances to the group finder, just join an active guild where you can find exactly what you're looking for whenever you log on? This seems like it'd not only be easier for you, it'd be easier on the devs since they wouldnt have to add more code to the game.

Pepper8Jack · February 2016

I disagree, players will learn when they want to learn, not because you ran them through a mandatory tutorial. As a player in a PUG, give them a chance to do what they can/want to do in their role. Then, if they don't succeed offer advice and support, if they can't/won't adapt, kick them and queue for a replacement. Simple.

Bottom line is that this would only benefit players interested in learning to begin with, and those players are more likely to look up how to be good in their roles or ask for help anyways, so it wouldn't solve your issue but would instead create an unnecessary and likely tedious barrier between players and the grouping tool.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

I disagree, players will learn when they want to learn, not because you ran them through a mandatory tutorial. As a player in a PUG, give them a chance to do what they can/want to do in their role. Then, if they don't succeed offer advice and support, if they can't/won't adapt, kick them and queue for a replacement. Simple.

Bottom line is that this would only benefit players interested in learning to begin with, and those players are more likely to look up how to be good in their roles or ask for help anyways, so it wouldn't solve your issue but would instead create an unnecessary and likely tedious barrier between players and the grouping tool.

hard to do if you have no communication with 90% of the PUGS. on console ofc

catalyst10e · February 2016

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

I disagree, players will learn when they want to learn, not because you ran them through a mandatory tutorial. As a player in a PUG, give them a chance to do what they can/want to do in their role. Then, if they don't succeed offer advice and support, if they can't/won't adapt, kick them and queue for a replacement. Simple.

Bottom line is that this would only benefit players interested in learning to begin with, and those players are more likely to look up how to be good in their roles or ask for help anyways, so it wouldn't solve your issue but would instead create an unnecessary and likely tedious barrier between players and the grouping tool.

When I was building a healer on my sorc, I just slotted what I thought I needed, and eventually started to ask about my heals. "hows my healing? can you even notice? is anyone using the blood alter?" I learned no one speaks up about how you're doing till you do it wrong, and then... ooo boy... you're gunna hear about it in the worst way. I stopped working on my healer after that and focused just on DPS, but I will always give kudos/shout outs to healers, and if necessary, follow up that compliment with a suggestion. "Those were great heals, you really saved me more than once, I would suggest combat prayer over blessing of restoration since you spam it so often, might as well get a buff from it" then they can take that info with them and change what they do, or just ignore me

LadyNalcarya · February 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I like the thought process but to me, it just needs to be a forced skill bar selection of 3 or more healing skills for healer role. Once placed on the bar they are locked on and can only be moved around.

Why? I did vWGT speedrun with a tank and 3 dds... And the only healing spell was my funnel health.
Honestly, if a team fails, its usually because of bad dps. Almost everyone plays as a dd and people seem to think that this role has no requirements... Those people are always the first to blame healers and tanks. Its not always the case, but around 80-90% from my experience. Ofc there are "tanks" with 15k hp at vr16 or archers joining as healers, but usually they have at least the basic skills (breath of life/springs and taunt).
Most of casual healers and tanks dont care about positioning and their dd's sustain, but that's still not a big problem if the dps is good. If its not... Even the best tanks and healers wouldnt help much (because they will need to waste all resourses on survival).

OldManJim · February 2016

There also seems to be issues where some people only want experienced players in their group. How are people supposed to learn when it's nearly impossible to get a group to play with?

I think I was in a SO group with TalonKnight on the weekend where 3 of us had never run it before. I'm grateful that the leader was willing to give us a go. It's helped me learn some mechanics & skills. From that I've tweaked my stats, enchantments & gear to hopefully allow me to perform better as a tank.

So just remember that there are inexperienced players out there that are willing to learn. Even to top players had to start somewhere!

LadyNalcarya · February 2016

OldManJim76 wrote: »

There also seems to be issues where some people only want experienced players in their group. How are people supposed to learn when it's nearly impossible to get a group to play with?

Well, experienced players started as newbies as well and learned somehow.

OldManJim · February 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

OldManJim76 wrote: »

There also seems to be issues where some people only want experienced players in their group. How are people supposed to learn when it's nearly impossible to get a group to play with?

Well, experienced players started as newbies as well and learned somehow.

Which is what I wrote in my last sentence.