Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After thinking about this set, I'd be fine with it under the following conditions:

1. When wearing 5pc, player has a bright fire animation around him. This will help players avoid.
2. Cooldown after effect procs.

Till then its worse than "shield breaker is vs shields" in providing a balance to fighting large groups.

Just don't ball up and the bigger group still gets a gross numbers advantage and totally mitigates the 5th piece of this set. It just means EVERYONE needs to focus on self sustain and preservation, even in a big group, because if you're not keeping yourself alive you're a liability now. It removes the value of cannon-fodder from the game, can hide an "elite small man team" in 20 pugs anymore or you risk death.
I think this is the single greatest set I've seen, because the counterplay to it is something available to everyone, stop stacking. I've run in guilds that stack, Hijinx, IR, Shortbus, VE, etc. I understand the reason it is currently most beneficial is because it allows you to focus on specific roles, min-max for those roles and use the close proximity to suck up buffs and heals from each other, as well as that AoE cap RNG being a crutch. This gives players a reason to unstack, which, in theory, could help server performance and let us have fun pvp. Ultimately, the only thing that should be looked at is the radius, nearby isn't nearly a good enough description for me to be comfortable.

I can agree to this viewpoint.

I'm just highlighting that the community's request to deal with this issue was to provide ways to burst a group that won't overpower one playstyle over the other (if AOE caps are to remain.). We all agreed shieldbteaker was a lazy attempt to combat shield stack, I feel the same for this set.

But if the friendly fire side is true, then I'm OK with this set. It means most won't run it all the time (since it means your death too.)

I'll still absolutely run this set 100% of the time, even if it is friendly fire, you bomb 2 enemy groups with this set and you're gonna be able to die, go get a beer (or light your lighter in the mic if you're on xbox -.-), and let the AP flow.

I do agree that the friendly fire aspect will drastically reduce its use in general, but you can bet a tons of people will just switch to ranged magika DPS where they can, I could see Inevitable Det being the new meta if that's the case

Zheg wrote: »

Set seems dumb to me, guess I don't agree with the bandwagon on this one. The damage flying around is already sky-high, even with the new prox det numbers by themselves. And what happens when the fall damage 'fix' ends up being like the last 3+ fixes and it's still happening in game? With unreflectable meteors that potentially oneshot people, plus this set doing 14k damage? Maybe if it wasn't ZOS in charge of coding and balance this set could be a viable experiment, but any of the (very likely) problems that emerge from this set won't get fixed for months. Even if I'm the one behind the damage numbers, 1 and 2-shotting things is not healthy pvp; wrobel and wheeler need to pull their heads out of their ***

Aside from vamp dying from shooting star, you won't be one-shotted by meteor, a 200 cost ulti that can be blocked letting only 2k through and an ground AOE that you can avoid.

I think we need to accept death as a healthy effect for pvp, in both gameplay and server performance.

You missed the point. If fall damage hasn't been fixed (just like the last few times they tried, said it was, and it wasn't) and you get oneshot by meteor because of lag fall damage, when you couple that with this set, it's going to be silly, and not in a good way. Either way, even without fall damage, people are hitting over 30k dmg with just prox det on PTS. That's moronic.

Fall damage isn't caused by a player. It's something easily tested. This set also won't wipe an entire group unless they're all standing within the roughly 6 meter radius.

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After thinking about this set, I'd be fine with it under the following conditions:

1. When wearing 5pc, player has a bright fire animation around him. This will help players avoid.
2. Cooldown after effect procs.

Till then its worse than "shield breaker is vs shields" in providing a balance to fighting large groups.

Just don't ball up and the bigger group still gets a gross numbers advantage and totally mitigates the 5th piece of this set. It just means EVERYONE needs to focus on self sustain and preservation, even in a big group, because if you're not keeping yourself alive you're a liability now. It removes the value of cannon-fodder from the game, can hide an "elite small man team" in 20 pugs anymore or you risk death.
I think this is the single greatest set I've seen, because the counterplay to it is something available to everyone, stop stacking. I've run in guilds that stack, Hijinx, IR, Shortbus, VE, etc. I understand the reason it is currently most beneficial is because it allows you to focus on specific roles, min-max for those roles and use the close proximity to suck up buffs and heals from each other, as well as that AoE cap RNG being a crutch. This gives players a reason to unstack, which, in theory, could help server performance and let us have fun pvp. Ultimately, the only thing that should be looked at is the radius, nearby isn't nearly a good enough description for me to be comfortable.

I can agree to this viewpoint.

I'm just highlighting that the community's request to deal with this issue was to provide ways to burst a group that won't overpower one playstyle over the other (if AOE caps are to remain.). We all agreed shieldbteaker was a lazy attempt to combat shield stack, I feel the same for this set.

But if the friendly fire side is true, then I'm OK with this set. It means most won't run it all the time (since it means your death too.)

I'll still absolutely run this set 100% of the time, even if it is friendly fire, you bomb 2 enemy groups with this set and you're gonna be able to die, go get a beer (or light your lighter in the mic if you're on xbox -.-), and let the AP flow.

I do agree that the friendly fire aspect will drastically reduce its use in general, but you can bet a tons of people will just switch to ranged magika DPS where they can, I could see Inevitable Det being the new meta if that's the case

Zheg wrote: »

Set seems dumb to me, guess I don't agree with the bandwagon on this one. The damage flying around is already sky-high, even with the new prox det numbers by themselves. And what happens when the fall damage 'fix' ends up being like the last 3+ fixes and it's still happening in game? With unreflectable meteors that potentially oneshot people, plus this set doing 14k damage? Maybe if it wasn't ZOS in charge of coding and balance this set could be a viable experiment, but any of the (very likely) problems that emerge from this set won't get fixed for months. Even if I'm the one behind the damage numbers, 1 and 2-shotting things is not healthy pvp; wrobel and wheeler need to pull their heads out of their ***

Aside from vamp dying from shooting star, you won't be one-shotted by meteor, a 200 cost ulti that can be blocked letting only 2k through and an ground AOE that you can avoid.

I think we need to accept death as a healthy effect for pvp, in both gameplay and server performance.

You missed the point. If fall damage hasn't been fixed (just like the last few times they tried, said it was, and it wasn't) and you get oneshot by meteor because of lag fall damage, when you couple that with this set, it's going to be silly, and not in a good way. Either way, even without fall damage, people are hitting over 30k dmg with just prox det on PTS. That's moronic.

Fall damage isn't caused by a player. It's something easily tested. This set also won't wipe an entire group unless they're all standing within the roughly 6 meter radius.

The problem, mano, is that it's not one single change, it's when you combine all of the insane damage options that are now coming and couple that with a clear lack of increase in mitigation. Besides the DK bubble, mitigation in general was heavily nerfed, including the benefit of nova/veil as ground based mitigation. Even without seeing the new sets and just hearing pieces of the incoming skill changes, weeks ago it already sounded like the meta was going even more glass cannon dps. Templars are going to be running around popping unstable core, inevitable dets, and jesus beams till they proc this set. Sorcs will be doing the same thing they've always done, just better. It might be lame, but I always loved mitigation ults like nova and veil, I felt like they added a depth of play that allowed for strategy and skill. I don't see them being anywhere near as functional in the coming meta, and I see that as a major loss.

I'll be testing the numbers for myself this weekend, so I'll hold off on too much pre-judgment for the patch changes, but at a quick glance it looks like it's a magicka glass cannon meta, with siege.

Edit: also, until testing verifies that it doesn't, I plan for the worst when it comes to zos coding, so yes, I'm concerned that fall damage will still trigger the set proc

Rylana wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

5 Death, 4 Magnus 3 will?
5 Kags 4 Death, 3 will?

2 kena, 5 Death, 5 Kags

I.... actually like this plan. You sir, are evil as hell.

Its absolutely optimal and worth missing the 3pc jewelry sets.
In fact you can swap out Death for Fasallas Guile if you want to move from Zerg busting to small scale pvp.

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After thinking about this set, I'd be fine with it under the following conditions:

1. When wearing 5pc, player has a bright fire animation around him. This will help players avoid.
2. Cooldown after effect procs.

Till then its worse than "shield breaker is vs shields" in providing a balance to fighting large groups.

Just don't ball up and the bigger group still gets a gross numbers advantage and totally mitigates the 5th piece of this set. It just means EVERYONE needs to focus on self sustain and preservation, even in a big group, because if you're not keeping yourself alive you're a liability now. It removes the value of cannon-fodder from the game, can hide an "elite small man team" in 20 pugs anymore or you risk death.
I think this is the single greatest set I've seen, because the counterplay to it is something available to everyone, stop stacking. I've run in guilds that stack, Hijinx, IR, Shortbus, VE, etc. I understand the reason it is currently most beneficial is because it allows you to focus on specific roles, min-max for those roles and use the close proximity to suck up buffs and heals from each other, as well as that AoE cap RNG being a crutch. This gives players a reason to unstack, which, in theory, could help server performance and let us have fun pvp. Ultimately, the only thing that should be looked at is the radius, nearby isn't nearly a good enough description for me to be comfortable.

I can agree to this viewpoint.

I'm just highlighting that the community's request to deal with this issue was to provide ways to burst a group that won't overpower one playstyle over the other (if AOE caps are to remain.). We all agreed shieldbteaker was a lazy attempt to combat shield stack, I feel the same for this set.

But if the friendly fire side is true, then I'm OK with this set. It means most won't run it all the time (since it means your death too.)

I'll still absolutely run this set 100% of the time, even if it is friendly fire, you bomb 2 enemy groups with this set and you're gonna be able to die, go get a beer (or light your lighter in the mic if you're on xbox -.-), and let the AP flow.

I do agree that the friendly fire aspect will drastically reduce its use in general, but you can bet a tons of people will just switch to ranged magika DPS where they can, I could see Inevitable Det being the new meta if that's the case

Zheg wrote: »

Set seems dumb to me, guess I don't agree with the bandwagon on this one. The damage flying around is already sky-high, even with the new prox det numbers by themselves. And what happens when the fall damage 'fix' ends up being like the last 3+ fixes and it's still happening in game? With unreflectable meteors that potentially oneshot people, plus this set doing 14k damage? Maybe if it wasn't ZOS in charge of coding and balance this set could be a viable experiment, but any of the (very likely) problems that emerge from this set won't get fixed for months. Even if I'm the one behind the damage numbers, 1 and 2-shotting things is not healthy pvp; wrobel and wheeler need to pull their heads out of their ***

Aside from vamp dying from shooting star, you won't be one-shotted by meteor, a 200 cost ulti that can be blocked letting only 2k through and an ground AOE that you can avoid.

I think we need to accept death as a healthy effect for pvp, in both gameplay and server performance.

You missed the point. If fall damage hasn't been fixed (just like the last few times they tried, said it was, and it wasn't) and you get oneshot by meteor because of lag fall damage, when you couple that with this set, it's going to be silly, and not in a good way. Either way, even without fall damage, people are hitting over 30k dmg with just prox det on PTS. That's moronic.

Fall damage isn't caused by a player. It's something easily tested. This set also won't wipe an entire group unless they're all standing within the roughly 6 meter radius.

The problem, mano, is that it's not one single change, it's when you combine all of the insane damage options that are now coming and couple that with a clear lack of increase in mitigation. Besides the DK bubble, mitigation in general was heavily nerfed, including the benefit of nova/veil as ground based mitigation. Even without seeing the new sets and just hearing pieces of the incoming skill changes, weeks ago it already sounded like the meta was going even more glass cannon dps. Templars are going to be running around popping unstable core, inevitable dets, and jesus beams till they proc this set. Sorcs will be doing the same thing they've always done, just better. It might be lame, but I always loved mitigation ults like nova and veil, I felt like they added a depth of play that allowed for strategy and skill. I don't see them being anywhere near as functional in the coming meta, and I see that as a major loss.

I'll be testing the numbers for myself this weekend, so I'll hold off on too much pre-judgment for the patch changes, but at a quick glance it looks like it's a magicka glass cannon meta, with siege.

Edit: also, until testing verifies that it doesn't, I plan for the worst when it comes to zos coding, so yes, I'm concerned that fall damage will still trigger the set proc

I'm going to test it once I get home in about half an hour. My feelings so far are that the players are creative. Yes DPS against large groups stacked tightly together is going to be higher, and mitigation was reduced. I'm thinking of ways around it, and I think it can work. The game won't be played the same way, but that doesn't mean everyone has to run in small 6 man groups to accomplish things. We'll see how it all goes though.

Closest thing I can think of is old VE fights with Nexus and Meth emp with broken Dawnbreaker. Instant win/loss fights. Insane burst.

But of course, we had barrier than.

I predict much stealth bombing, no one wants to be out in the open next patch. No one.

I think more people will be running magelight so it will be harder to stealth bomb as well? There will be some very interesting times ahead.

Vicious does not proc if you die from fall damage caused by an enemy players ability.

LOL if this set procs off NPCs. I felt like I was solo-defending a keep and got hit with this off an NPC. there might have been another player around but I didnt see any.

If it does proc off NPCs every flag is going to be a bombfest.




EDIT: Actually I think I was wearing engine guardian at that time. If that's what happened, RIP using that set in pvp or pets.

Satiar wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

WTB Vicious Death set, name your price. Please let me jump on a flag with a nonreflectable meteor, prox det with 100% bonus damage, and this perk. Teach you not to ball zerg me with 30 people.

That skilled and strategic gameplay tho

I'd argue if 30 people can't step 6m to the side to not be in caught in the bomb that they're the ones not showing skilled or strategic gameplay

miss you guys

Zheg wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

So bad... Like there needed to be another reason to make you wonder what the hell ZoS is thinking. Do they really think this won't be exploitable? People already gushing about how they'll be able to solo entire raids now... "Now there's finally balance! How dare that group of 24 streamroll my 3-man gank group!" What? Good grief...

Just reading all the giggity-goos from certain players in this thread should be enough to push them make some changes, or at least some clarifications.

That's the level of player they're catering to though. Pretty much the entire patch demonstrates that, it's not just this one set. If it's true that it procs off npcs, guess we won't be seeing people running engine guardian any more. As of this patch, getting wins against the 60-70 reds that have replaced the various guilds on NA PC azura and instead just all roll together for every single engagement is difficult enough simply because of the numbers. Getting wins against those numbers is going to be even less likely with this patch. While it's no surprise that wrobel and wheeler don't have the foggiest on how to balance pvp, it also shouldn't be a surprise that the idjits on these forums got what they've been asking for and pvp is even less balanced against bigger numbers. 3 want to wipe 24? Only way to do that is to make it so literally everyone can just blow up, hence the 35k prox dets on PTS and sets like this. It will be sooooo skillful for people to prox, run in and drop an ult, dat elite smallman spec.

With all due respect, This complaint is absolutely crazy man because everything you're talking about is hard countered by one simple mechanic, stop stacking and spread out. If the 24 people just take a few steps away from each other they won't get hit with prox det enough to scale the damage out of control and the vicious death explosion won't hit anyone. You don't have to change your gear, skills, or anything, just a simple change of tactics completely negates the effectiveness of these abilities against larger groups

Sets like this can be entertaining, but aren't my cup of tea. It is too gimmicky.

But I'm oldschool. I think all PVP without friendly fire is cheesy and tacky. If you want to spam grenades all day, you should have to worry about killing your friends too.

Even though friendly fire is not viable in this game, I would prefer the gameplay to be designed as if it were.

I have adapted and do bomb often, but this game has the potential to be so much more than coordinated roflbombs and so-called "one shot" combos.