Don't lower the AP required to level Assault and Support skill lines

Faasnu · February 2016

pronkg wrote: »

Most people don't know what they are doing though.

i gain like 20 or 30 k or smthing in 2 or 3 hours with a group if it goes well. I think 20 to 30 hours investment just to gain a skill is allot.

I agree, I play everyday since beta but I still don't get more than 100k AP a day, and only if a good group agrees to invite me. I know the top players can make an insane amount of AP, but for a regular player it's really not that easy.

EDIT: regarding the undaunted skill line, I think it should need less points, too. If you have many characters, it takes too much time to level.

LillyAngel · February 2016

I agree with the change. People should stop trolling forums about this or that being wrong and scream for nerfs or changes. I also like that ZOS cares about the casual crowd so stop crying just because you had to work harder for something. It's pathetic.

Leon119 · February 2016

What rank do you need now to get to level 10 btw ?

pronkg · February 2016

Faasnu wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

Most people don't know what they are doing though.

i gain like 20 or 30 k or smthing in 2 or 3 hours with a group if it goes well. I think 20 to 30 hours investment just to gain a skill is allot.

I agree, I play everyday since beta but I still don't get more than 100k AP a day, and only if a good group agrees to invite me. I know the top players can make an insane amount of AP, but for a regular player it's really not that easy.

I used to pvp allot, so I have quite some points, I stopped due to the lag issues. And also I'm gonna quit this game if performance isn't improved with next patch. I've basically ended this game and pvp is almost unbearable. Last thing I achieved was perfect maelstrom run. Now I run only weekly maelstrom, and WGT and ICP gold keys. Waiting till next patch.

I have like 530.000 and I've played since beta, only 2 chars.

Undaunted skill line is a walk in the park compared to this, at least that's how it feels to me.

I don't want to aoe spam heal to level this skill line

Mojmir · February 2016

Blame zos for putting good skills inside a pvp zone,at least you guys will be able to buy monster sets with ap.and the undaunted tree ain't all that.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

lol, comparing levelling undaunted to alliance war skills.... Let's turn this around, why should they cater to PvP whiners that want to keep people that don't want to PvP in PvP? Or PvP whiners that want a lagfree Cyro etc? PvPers keep saying PvErs whine but PvPers themselves whine about everything they possibly can. Hypocrisy at it's best ;D

Alucardo · February 2016

LillyAngel wrote: »

I agree with the change. People should stop trolling forums about this or that being wrong and scream for nerfs or changes.

Having an opinion is considered trolling now? I'm actually asking for an UN-nerf. I just want things to stay the way they are in regards to alliance skill lines.

LillyAngel wrote: »

so stop crying just because you had to work harder for something. It's pathetic.

Do you realise how stupid you sound now? If someone works hard for something, then another comes in and gets it handed to them on a silver platter, I'm pretty sure that's grounds for a minor rant.
Not even sure why I bothered responding to you. I understand where all the others that disagree with me are coming from, but you, you're just an idiot.

Alucardo · February 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

lol, comparing levelling undaunted to alliance war skills.... Let's turn this around, why should they cater to PvP whiners that want to keep people that don't want to PvP in PvP? Or PvP whiners that want a lagfree Cyro etc? PvPers keep saying PvErs whine but PvPers themselves whine about everything they possibly can. Hypocrisy at it's best ;D

Why not whine? It seems to work. A few people cry about meteors getting reflected, so ZOS remove the ability to reflect meteors. PVErs whine about alliance war skill line taking ages, so ZOS shorten it. We should all jump on the whine train because it appears to take you to your destination if you cry hard enough.

Mojmir · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

lol, comparing levelling undaunted to alliance war skills.... Let's turn this around, why should they cater to PvP whiners that want to keep people that don't want to PvP in PvP? Or PvP whiners that want a lagfree Cyro etc? PvPers keep saying PvErs whine but PvPers themselves whine about everything they possibly can. Hypocrisy at it's best ;D

Why not whine? It seems to work. A few people cry about meteors getting reflected, so ZOS remove the ability to reflect meteors. PVErs whine about alliance war skill line taking ages, so ZOS shorten it. We should all jump on the whine train because it appears to take you to your destination if you cry hard enough.

Everybody whines though,no one comes here without asking for something at some point.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

lol, comparing levelling undaunted to alliance war skills.... Let's turn this around, why should they cater to PvP whiners that want to keep people that don't want to PvP in PvP? Or PvP whiners that want a lagfree Cyro etc? PvPers keep saying PvErs whine but PvPers themselves whine about everything they possibly can. Hypocrisy at it's best ;D

Why not whine? It seems to work. A few people cry about meteors getting reflected, so ZOS remove the ability to reflect meteors. PVErs whine about alliance war skill line taking ages, so ZOS shorten it. We should all jump on the whine train because it appears to take you to your destination if you cry hard enough.

Maybe so, but then don't try to tell others not to whine if you do it yourself, that's what I think is the worst people on the forums, telling people not to whine then go on and to it themselves.

laksikus · February 2016

Leon119 wrote: »

What worries me is proxi being available in BWB

It is now.
I had it at lvl 42

Leon119 · February 2016

I dont see how this is a bad change. Most people just want to get the skills and be done with it. And dont u dare say the undaunted skill leveling is the same grind...
The biggest undaunted grind is getting the helmets and shoulders which u can get now with 2 days worth of AP....
You are just crying for the sake of crying...

Enodoc · February 2016

So what are the new AP values? It seems like they are quite low (too low?). What's the incentive to rank up in PvP if you've already got all the skills?

Alucardo · February 2016

Leon119 wrote: »

I dont see how this is a bad change. Most people just want to get the skills and be done with it. And dont u dare say the undaunted skill leveling is the same grind...
The biggest undaunted grind is getting the helmets and shoulders which u can get now with 2 days worth of AP....
You are just crying for the sake of crying...

I never said it was the same grind. I've never completed it so I can't really say. Also, there's a difference between crying and asking ZOS to not push a change to live, hence why I submitted it to the PTS category.
I get some of you really want it to be lowered, I do, but I really do not and I think it's a bad idea.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · February 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

So what are the new AP values? It seems like they are quite low (too low?). What's the incentive to rank up in PvP if you've already got all the skills?

Achievements, ranks, etc.

Enodoc · February 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So what are the new AP values? It seems like they are quite low (too low?). What's the incentive to rank up in PvP if you've already got all the skills?

Achievements, ranks, etc.

So nothing tangible, then? Is that a good thing? Getting to Rank 25 seemed like a goal to aim for since it unlocked the final skills, now it's just another title and another number.

Leon119 · February 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So what are the new AP values? It seems like they are quite low (too low?). What's the incentive to rank up in PvP if you've already got all the skills?

Achievements, ranks, etc.

So nothing tangible, then? Is that a good thing? Getting to Rank 25 seemed like a goal to aim for since it unlocked the final skills, now it's just another title and another number.

You have to consider that it was a goal for those who enjoy pvping
For those who dont its a pain to max out a skill line

willymchilybily · February 2016

i disagreee with OP. undaunted levels quick, alliance slow. all they have done is bought the two inline with eachother if anything.

and any hardcore PvPer suffers no consequence by some pve scrub NOT cluttering up their cyrodill and running around in zergs to gain ap (causing major lag) because they dont know how to play.

why complain over something that has no negative impact? and hopefully will have some positive ones instead. seems you're very salty recently @Alucardo its not becoming bro.

Edit: is it any different from cheapening the achievement of getting monster sets from 100s of dungeon runs? soon to be purchasable

Enodoc · February 2016

Leon119 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So what are the new AP values? It seems like they are quite low (too low?). What's the incentive to rank up in PvP if you've already got all the skills?

Achievements, ranks, etc.

So nothing tangible, then? Is that a good thing? Getting to Rank 25 seemed like a goal to aim for since it unlocked the final skills, now it's just another title and another number.

You have to consider that it was a goal for those who enjoy pvping
For those who dont its a pain to max out a skill line

Fair enough. Maybe it was reduced too far, though? Has anyone got those numbers? @Alucardo is "getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills" a throwaway remark or an accurate value?

Personofsecrets · February 2016

Don't make pve gear available for purchase, especially not for alliance points.

Leon119 · February 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So what are the new AP values? It seems like they are quite low (too low?). What's the incentive to rank up in PvP if you've already got all the skills?

Achievements, ranks, etc.

So nothing tangible, then? Is that a good thing? Getting to Rank 25 seemed like a goal to aim for since it unlocked the final skills, now it's just another title and another number.

You have to consider that it was a goal for those who enjoy pvping
For those who dont its a pain to max out a skill line

Fair enough. Maybe it was reduced too far, though? Has anyone got those numbers? @Alucardo is "getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills" a throwaway remark or an accurate value?

Think he meant level 7 in skill line to get deto. No idea what rank you need. Been asking around but no solid answer. Someone said with alliance rank 12 he had level 10 skill line. Dont know if you need less than 12 though.

GilGalad · February 2016

I have to say that I welcome the changes, though it's not the perfect solution. All these AP and undaunted grinds only become really painful when you have to do them on your alts. I have 3 chars with caltrops, one with Mag deto and my main with AR 24. To be most effective on my two remaining magicka alts I would need to grind the magicka detonation, which used to be 1.6 Mio AP each. Having account wide ARs would be the far better solution, but meanwhile I welcome the reduced AP for alliance skills.

Leon119 · February 2016

Gil.Galad wrote: »

I have to say that I welcome the changes, though it's not the perfect solution. All these AP and undaunted grinds only become really painful when you have to do them on your alts. I have 3 chars with caltrops, one with Mag deto and my main with AR 24. To be most effective on my two remaining magicka alts I would need to grind the magicka detonation, which used to be 1.6 Mio AP each. Having account wide ARs would be the far better solution, but meanwhile I welcome the reduced AP for alliance skills.

That way the grand overlords cant hide their walking achievements though

Enodoc · February 2016

Leon119 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So what are the new AP values? It seems like they are quite low (too low?). What's the incentive to rank up in PvP if you've already got all the skills?

Achievements, ranks, etc.

So nothing tangible, then? Is that a good thing? Getting to Rank 25 seemed like a goal to aim for since it unlocked the final skills, now it's just another title and another number.

You have to consider that it was a goal for those who enjoy pvping
For those who dont its a pain to max out a skill line

Fair enough. Maybe it was reduced too far, though? Has anyone got those numbers? @Alucardo is "getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills" a throwaway remark or an accurate value?

Think he meant level 7 in skill line to get deto. No idea what rank you need. Been asking around but no solid answer. Someone said with alliance rank 12 he had level 10 skill line. Dont know if you need less than 12 though.

Hmm, interesting. One skill line level per rank, perhaps? That's a change from 6.9 million AP to max the skill lines to 456k AP, a decrease of factor 15, which seems too extreme. Maybe a decrease of, say, factor 5 would be more reasonable, which would have you maxing the skill line at rank 14 or 15.

acw37162 · February 2016

100% Agree with the OP on Undaunted and PVP lines taking the same time investment.

If he would have stopped there I would have no issues, the fact he had to jab at the "PVP whiners" running his achievement is a bit disgraceful.

That argument holds no water.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2016

Lowered AP requirements means Prox Det is coming to Blackwater blade. God help us all. The best part of BWB was no prox det and no meteor. Yes you could get both but it was very hard to do. Not anymore.

themdogesbite · February 2016

As long as the AP needed to actually get a PvP rank isnt changed it should be fine..

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

pronkg wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

Then give us a decent stamina heal that isn't locked behind pvp.

My god people, vigor takes what 300k AP? It isn't hard to get that in a couple days, even in a night sometimes if you know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing but have half a brain, it might take a week or two? Hardly unfair.

Most people don't know what they are doing though.

i gain like 20 or 30 k or smthing in 2 or 3 hours with a group if it goes well. I think 20 to 30 hours investment just to gain a skill is allot.

Also it would be nice to gain skills for being skillful not for spamming aoe and healing skills all day long.

So should Vigor/Caltrops/ProxyDet be unlocked quicker because players who are new to pvp dont know how to gain AP?

If you would gain AP for being useful it would take unskilled players even longer to unlock these skills, its a bit contradicting.

Ryuho · February 2016

I see this change as "Let's help our pve community, cause we dont care pvp" which is *** true, they don't care about us.. Now pve weaklings aka zergers will get faster proxy dets, max passives.. Seriously.. Maybe reduce und ranks to 100 points each rank or even 50 to make them equal to alliance change.. So pvp ppls whos dont enjoy pve would be happy also.. I just can't stand this pve garbage talk "It's so hard to max this skills", well for many many pvp ppls maxing und is also huge pain and waste of time running same dungeons ever and ever, will be even worst especially with und sets vendors coming, cause rewards from pledges wont be needed, only passives!!

Do u pve guys dont understand that hiting *** mobs dont make us happy, its boring as ***, but still if we want 6% boost to stats we are forced to run this ***, so why @ZOS why u did that, should stay like it was.. or at least make it fair and reduce und ranks requiment..

Desimator · February 2016

PvP players want rid of PvEers this should do it 50ish hours should gain them the skills and passives they want which is about the same as to complete the 1-50 lvling so rolling a new Char should take 100 hrs once vet ranks are removed extra time to gather all skyshards and such but overall more appealing for alts and rerolls