The nerf to BoL isreally really disappointing. There are definitely some incredibly toxic players in this community that need to take their streaming and shove it up their....

I like the damage increases, but it in no way offsets the damage done to the class by reducing the effectiveness of their healing. Seriously, why am I go to jump on my Templar to DPS when I have a fully leveled Sorc, NB and DK that will all own it in the damage game???

Disappointed, just so disappointed....

Magicka Templar gunna be so op in Cyro ... @blabafat gunna be even more ridiculous.

*

1) i really like the healing changes for pvp. might make it worthwhile to slot ritual (probably not) but will least least make it owrthwhile to think about how you want to heal and have something like springs/grand healing was well. keep in mind that sticking is discouraged by other changes (siege, deto, etc) but encouraged if you want to get lots in coming heal now (spring/illoustrious).

2) i like the change to sweeps/jabs but all in all, i think for solo pvp (hell, and even the now fun a templar is in small groups), it's too little. even if they make the templar strong enough, the skills rely very little on your timing and are quite spammable. maybe the changed elemental damage cpoint thing will lead to vbane being used, nice snares and strong(er) solo templars. but at the end of the day, magicka templars will remain a class that depend less (still a lot) on player skill than others. imho one could say boring - at least in comparison.

3) all stamina build will take a HUGE hit through the changed hardy (was about time).

4) for pve DDs, the changed champion system as well as the changed backlash ability are a HUGE buff. I can see templars pull top dps numbers now. great ones were already close to dk/sorcs (but behind great ones of those classes). Having the full effect of a magic+elemental mix, will buff templars and magicka NBs with a destro staff the most (as PvE DDs).

At least solo/small scale will yield twice the AP and now and I can play another char and catchup to my templar's rank.

Nothing about jabs 140% bonus not working against damage shield.
I don't know what to say about my impression. Confused. Well, I'm going to get rid of BoL. Time to try another morph 0_o

Ashamray wrote: »

Nothing about jabs 140% bonus not working against damage shield.
I don't know what to say about my impression. Confused. Well, I'm going to get rid of BoL. Time to try another morph 0_o

It works fine against shields

I don't understand the changes...ther is no reason to use barrage because we have blazing spear...12% increase wasn't needed. There is so much more... biggest disappointment I think I have read from a "major class balance act". Its like they had one dude who loves dks another who loves magic sorcs, and both of them in charge of "fixing" Templar... they both hate us I cannot describe my disappointment... be surprised if I log in this next week... is there any point? The pointless Nerf coming downrange

Mojmir wrote: »

So is eclipse now the templars version of flappy wings?

What makes you think that? The version that can be applied to multiple players doesn't reflect anymore. It basically just becomes an AoE lower dps velocious curse that can be applied to multiple players. At least that is my understanding after reading the patch notes.

The version that does reflect is still CC breakable, cleansable, and only applies to one person.

blabafat wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Nothing about jabs 140% bonus not working against damage shield.
I don't know what to say about my impression. Confused. Well, I'm going to get rid of BoL. Time to try another morph 0_o

It works fine against shields

Oh, great.

No more Knock Back and less Healing to allies? How am I going to interrupt casters or keep my group alive?

I was loving my Templar, now I might just have to retire her.

For the record, when we abuse the dark flare buff in pts, ppl will cry for a nerf and ZOS will nerf it right before pushing it to live. And they will say: Sorry guys, we tried but you became too powerful, so we had to nerf you again. But dont go anywhere, we have plans for you in the next update.
And call it a day

While I like changes dps side, my freelance healer took a double hit. May as well not even carry purge anymore.

Utterly predictable failure from ZOS - instead of fixing the Templar, they made, as people predicted, few token concessions, meaningless changes and nerfed BoL to appease the ganking QQ crowd.

Here's what I gotta say about these changes

Aedric Spear:
- Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): This morph now displays a hostile red telegraph if it is cast from enemy Templars.

Oh brilliant, it's already slow as hell and people have been dodging it all the time, supposing that you actually manage to predict where they will run so as to even have a chanve of hitting someone with it. Obviously it needed (along with the slew of past nerfs on damage) to be made more obvious so that poor sneaking NB's can avoid it more easily.

Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.

Yeah, I kinda want to see that in practice before believing this one. Since after all it is exactly the same thing ZOS has said several times before. And note that the way it's worded "more responsive" as compared to what? How it was before, but still less so than other gap closers?

Piercing Javelin: Increased the range of this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 20 meters.

Well at least it might reach an enemy every now and then. Was funny since wrecking blow, a melee hit seemed to have 15 meter range, that a ranged one would have 20 meter. 28 meters is much better, but it's still a pointless skill since it costs a ton and is fairly weak

Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.

I'd be happy about this if this was not something we have been telling ZOS for over a year now! And after all this time of them claiming it was fine, they finally realized just how stupid it was. Still... no changes about it's aiming, which sucks, the fact that it's a channel which sucks, and the fact that Both Piercing Spears and Burning Light passives are useless against shields... Yeah... not gonna be celebrating about this one either.

Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.

WOW! What an utterly meaningless change. This has gotta be the most pointless change in all of the Patch notes. (Or so I thought, not yet having read the other Templar changes...)It makes a completely useless Ultimate to be still completely useless ability! WOW! The ineptitude just keeps growing.

Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.

And it keeps getting better! WOW - a whole 1 percent more! For the morph most people won't use anyway. No change in it's duration, no change in it's strength, great job of fixing nothing!

And no changes on any of the passives... yeah. A string of expletives on that.

At the very least you should've given Balanced warrior a Spell damage buff - hell the Sorc got Weapon damage buff to go with their spell damage passive many moons ago. At the very least you should've done the same to Templar. Ditch the spell resistance bonus if you have to, it is weak and meaningless anyway. The meta of this game is focused around damage and Spell and weapon Damage are kings in all all considerations. And Templars need a Spell damage buff passive to be on any kind of equal footing with Sorcs as a caster class.

Okay on to Dawns Wrath...
Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.

I suppose this has some meaning in PVE, but is meaningless thing in PVP. But not all skills need to be useful in PVP, as long as some are and vice versa. And also LOL wut? Increased it's damage by 25% but decreased it's damage by66%? What?

Eclipse: bunch of stuff

Still mostly useless in PVP and vastly less useful than Wings. Besides anyone who is even remotely familiar with it just purges or breaks it, so it's not really useful as such. Except against some PVE targets...

Even so, I would be happy to leave these things for their niche uses, even though they are some of the most over engineered skills in the game only situationally useful, if the rest of dawns wrath was rock solid. Unfortunately it's not. There is only one skill of any meaningful value in the whole tree and it's jeezusbeam, and it too has been nerfed almost to the ground. All the other dawns wrath skills, including the Ultimate, are tricksy, slow, weak and way too costly to actually use.
Enduring Rays:

This passive ability now only increases the duration of the Sun Fire, Eclipse, and Nova abilities.
Increased this passive ability’s bonus to 15/30% more duration at Ranks I/II from 10/20%.

Cool! Another Templar passive that I have no reason what so ever to invest skill points in. There is close to zero point in using any of those skills, so why then use the passive either? You could have put some sort of resource management boost here, like having a Dawns wrath ability slotted gives you resource management buff. The kinda passive all the other classes seem to have...

Nova:

Reduced the effects and visual light intensity for this ability and its morphs.
Increased the damage from the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies by 16%.
Increased the activation range for the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies to 3.5 meters from 2.5 meters.

The reduced glare is welcome - too bad it's the only meaningful hanges. Increasing synergy damage? Really? The number one point of most Templars is that how much they suck as anything else but pocket healers, and what you decide to do in your game where every class was supposed to be able to fill every role? You increase Templars stamp of indentured servitude by boosting their group support skills.

Even, with the boost, it's still far too costly for what it brings to the table, and in PVP, only situationally useful in covering breaches. Meteor still serves the same purpose for less cost and with better passives to boot.

Radiant Destruction: Fixed an issue where the execute bonus damage from this ability would not apply if multiple Templars were channeling these abilities on the same target.

The only meaningful change for the whole tree, and it's not even a buff or a tweak but a fix. And it's something that should've been patched up a long time ago. But since Templars aren't Sorcs - who cares about it when our skills are bugged.

Solar Flare: Increased the damage for this ability and the Dark Flare morph by 12%. The damage of the Solar Barrage morph remains unchanged.

So.. let me get this right... after months of us arguing this one needed a buff, and having heard for months how it's damage was in line with other skills and didn't need any change. You suddenly decide it needs a damage buff? Well, thanks for that I suppose. Not that it makes a licking difference, since there is still no reason to slot it. It is too slow to cast, too slow to reach the target and tends just to be reflected back to you if it hits anyone with a shield or who happens to be a DK. (And with your planned changes to nerf reflects, you no longer can re-reflet the reflected attack... whoopdie doo.)

Also, Sorcs just refresh Harness Magicka and thank you for the magicka, while Night Blades dodge it or vanish. So yeah... What this skill would have needed was less obvious animation, and faster flight time, or some sort of proc to compete with crystal frags. I mean a sorc can be on defensive and spam shields and then suddenly retaliate with an instant frag to the face that stuns. and then either bolt away or execute your ass. That is a versatile and powerful ability. The damage increase is nice, and welcome indeed, but the skill is still just too weak, and fails miserably to the versatility provided by it's Sorc counterpart.

Vampire’s Bane (Sun Fire morph): Increased the damage over time duration for this morph to 9 seconds from 7 seconds.

AT this point the seizures of laughter are starting to get really painful... The useless morph of a useless skill gets a useless tweak. WOW. That one sure required an all new low of missing the point!

9 second DoT in this game is meaningless. With animation cancelling and the kind of spamming the good skills enable, you can finish a rotation of 4 skills twice during that time and still have time to spare. You can execute some of the attack, skill, bash combos over three times while that thing is burning. If there were 12 slotted abilities on each bar, then yeah maybe, but we only have 5 + 1 Ultimate. And there is no way in hell I am going to waste a slot on a skill that has a DoT time of 9 seconds while doing measly damage I can out DPS with a simple Crushing Shock light attack spam. And once again with much better passives to boot.

And that is in PVE. In PVP it is even less useful. No one is going to let it burn for 9 seconds. That thing is gonna get purged immediately. And it's till slow and the initial hit is about as impactful as a throwing shredded tissue paper at someone with your off hand.

And I have tried to use it - a lot. In many different combinations. But the bottom line is always the same - It's not as useful as basic spammable than just about any other option. Even when not going with a Destro staff, the undaunted skill Trapping Web is more useful ability to slot than this. The only use for the skill is in it's Reflective light form and that in grinding mobs while doing PVE leveling.

And this coming from a guy who really wanted to like this skill. *** used ti long into the Veteran levels because it fit my character so well. And als olooked cool. The Major prophecy it grants seemed like a no-brainer. A basic spammable, thematic to my Templar with a nice snare and a powerful buff? What's not to like. Well, it's weak as a skill can be, useless in PVP, the ancillary effects of other skills are much better than the snare it provides, and since Cyrodiil is such a ganker haven swarming with stealthed Night Blades, I consider it suicidal to venture beyond walls of a keep without having Mage light on. And with that, goes the last reason to use Sun Fire or any of it's morphs.

And let me just end this section by noting that Restoring Spirit needs a buff. It is in no way comparable to the resource management passives other classes have. And since most Templar skills are hideously expensive as is, it only manages to get our casting cost a tad closer to the base line. It was a high time for you guys to address this issue and buff Restoring Spirit, but... you blew it. Again. As usual.

And the tragedy continues with Restoring light...

Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.

Are you out of your frigging minds!?!? So the only thing that we templars had, you decided to nerf? Well, I suppose it could have been worse you could have reduced it's power, which you no doubt will eventually do since NB gankers will keep QQ about it until you cave in.

If you are going to cut 25% of it's healing power then at least cut it's price down by 20%. It's expensive as hell already, and nothing annoys quite like when NB players QQ about your OP self heal and the you go to Cyrodiil and die because the Smart Targetting of the skill decided to heal other players and not you...

This nerf is a deal breaker for me. BoL is the bread and butter of the class, and beyond stooping down to mutagen spam, the most consistent way to get AP in Cyrodiil, since we sure as hell can't kill anything. At least we were able to keep others propped up and thus get them to kill our enemies for us. But no... You really are doing everything you can to drive out Templar players from the game.

Cleansing Ritual:

Increased the healing from the Purify synergy from this ability and its morphs by 12%.
Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to cleanse projectiles that were mid-flight. It now matches the behavior of the Purge ability.

Why? I get the last one, since that is a bug. Put what on earth for are you buffing this one of all skills? I suppose it makes for longer sieges, and easier breach defenses but, I fail to see how this skill really needed anything done to it. It's jsut the kind of random meaningless change that you are notorious for. You snuffle the deck for no real reason, changing things in arbitrary fashion and end up with just a new set of issues.

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

Another example of these arbitrary changes the results of which are hard to predict. On one hand it's cool we finally get Major Mending, after all it was tad daft that the "best healers" in the game didn't have access to this buff. But then you take away the non typed healing bonus for healing people standing in your Cleansing Ritual, which has been a key part of good Templar healing play from the launch of the game. We also lose potential synergy since this is now replaced with a typed bonus, so wont' stack with other sources of said bonus.

You also make us even more sitting ducks by forcing as to sit in our circles of power or lose the buff in a flash. And this change, when a key thing we as a class wanted was more mobility, you make us ever more rooted in place. I guess the poor NB's QQ too much about having to chase us down. So thanks ZOS ,such a good idea to make us even more static. I'm sure they are happy about this change.

Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.

Yet another meaningless change. A crappy skill with a way too long cast time is still a crappy skill even if you marginally lower it's cast time while also lowering it's power. No one will still use it.

Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.

Another change that completely misses it's mark. A pointless buff is pointless if no one ever uses the skill. Compared to Repentance this one is so weak. And gaining major Intellect is meaningless since Templar resource management sucks anyway, and we are constantly drinking potions and have the buff up pretty much constantly as is. But I suppose the classes that are not dependent on potions for resource management are happy to get all the major buffs for free... From their Templar Servants. And besides, other classes get comparable boosts to their resource management via passives, and Templars need to slot an active ability just to compete? Oh yeah, that is so balanced design that it dazzles with brilliance.

Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph): This morph now grants you the Minor Protection buff, in addition to granting the Minor Vitality buff as a morph effect.

And the trend of meaningless changes continues it's triumphant procession! Minor Protection is such an insignificant buff to a skill no-one in their right mind is going to use anyway, that it borders on insanity. Stamplars have no need for the skil on their limited bars, and no Magplar can take a pass on Rune Focus since our resource management sucks so much. So buffing an already a weak morph with a really weak effect and thinking it matters is just ludicrous.

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

Speaking of which... There was no reason to limit the morph effect to be only applicable when standing still and asking for enemies to come perforate our lateral orifices. This ability was just fine the way it was way back when it still used to be cool. With this update you should've finally made the thing move with the caster. The fact that the effects wore off after 8 seconds of leaving the rune was a big enough a drawback. Other classes get self buffs that last 20 seconds, and they can zap and zip about the battlefield as they want. The fact that rune focus gave you meaningful magicking regen on the run was one of the few saving graces of the class. But no... that would have meant we were not the red headed step childs of ESO that the other classes can use as a punching back. So that had to go.

All in all... So an utter failure. Not only did you not listen to the the people who play Templars, you appeased those who do not by nerfing us, and failed to make any meaningful change. And you did not deliver on teh two biggest key issues - movement and meaningful synergy. The Templar class has no synergy at all. And crappy resource management. So after months and months of constructive suggestions, hundreds of posts offering feedback on dozens of threads, you manage to come up with nothing. At all.

So, thinking about all those hugely touted big improvements you had planned for the Templar, and the promises of delivering class balance, all I can think of is hearing Gordon Ramsay say:

My thoughts on the Templar changes:

Breath of Life nerf: I don't like the nerf, but oh well I can live with it. However, I'd like to see each of the other classes receive an equally significant nerf. The Breath of Life nerf is the most significant class nerf in the entire patch notes by far. Sorcs didn't even get a nerf at all.

The 1 meter increase to radial sweep and 1% damage buff to radiant ward is like a vindictive middle finger to the Templar community in response to Wrobel constantly having to deal with Gina bothering him about Templar complaints and her forcing him to write responses to Templar complaints.

Healing Ritual is still garbage, but nice try.

I am still not sure about the Backlash and Unstable Core changes, but they kind of look nice on a paper. So tentatively good job on those.

This statement is dependent on everything working right, but giving credit where credit is due, good job on Focused Charge, Puncturing Strikes, Dark Flare, Radiant Destruction. Those changes leave us in a good place for PvE Dps small scale PvP(even though I know you are going to roll over and nerf the jabs snare to like 20-40% after some streamer running a speed build complains about it.)

Rayste wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

The patch notes prove that streamers do have significant power with ZOS. A single person made that breath of life nerf happen.

I doubt that, but I have found a trend amongst people with only one class type. They ask for nerfs to everyone else and cry because they think their class is underpowered. I might know who you are talking about.

Nah, this BOL nerf came from one place. It wasn't even an issue until he started a nerf Templar campaign. Though like I say above, I can live with the nerf. I'd just like to see nerfs of equal impact handed out to the other classes.

timidobserver wrote: »

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

I think people are overlooking that we're finally getting major mending too. I feel that buff will balance out the nerf to BoL which I think isn't that bad

We already basically had major mending for anything standing inside of purifying ritual. Getting major mending rather than it only applying to people standing inside the ritual is definitely a buff, but it isn't nearly as significant as you are making it out to be.

I think it is a big buff. Until now major mending was only applied to templar skills (so only BoL). Now it is affecting resto-staff skills aswell, which is great for PvE-Raidhealing.