I don't enjoy PvP and don't like the idea of being forced into it through a part of the game that is/started out PvE. That being said, it's not something I'm really passionately against. It looks like most people are for it.

Jaeysa wrote: »

I don't enjoy PvP and don't like the idea of being forced into it through a part of the game that is/started out PvE. That being said, it's not something I'm really passionately against. It looks like most people are for it.

Tholian1 wrote: »

Just go steal and fight thieves in a PvP zone. Why must the PvE experience be ruined by PvP?

did u guys read atleast any of replies from other people? ... they are actually answering to your posts already

Btw I could argue with you the same way... Why must the PvP experience be ruined by PvE?... but why would I do that right?

JMadFour wrote: »

when I want to PVP, I go to Cyrodiil. in Cyrodiil I find PVPers, who are there for the same reason(s) I am. to beat each other up and take Keeps.

when I want to do PVE, I go to PVE zones. in PVE zones, I find PVErs, who are there for the same reason(s) I am. to quest, and run dungeons/delves.

PVP and PVE don't mix. I prefer to keep them seperate. I'm glad ZOS decided to continue to keep PVE and PVP seperated, instead of trying to mix it, like they tried to do with Imperial City.

I think as far as Justice System PVP goes, the multiple potential problems outweigh the one potential benefit.

In asheron's call, the fun and appeal of the darktide server, and what made it so much fun was that there were player created factions that could be at war against one another, or create allegiances to fight PKs(player killers). This dynamic system is a blast, and for it to be option is what can make it acceptable for me and you.

The problem with scrapping it all together is that it removes the possibility of a feature that gives some games subscribers until the servers shut off. The novelty of this feature is so immense, it's insane for you to say that there's only one benefit. It's so short-sighted. I am an ESO plus subscriber, I contribute a decent amount of money to the game, possibly more than some of the people who complain the most.

I would stay until the servers shut off if they implemented justice pvp, I am not a huge fan of the zerg-like pvp thats currently in place. Everyone is too scared, so they band together. It's just a spam fest... run into the zerg spam aoe, get points etc.. It's a lot like PvE. The justice pvp makes different options available. ZOS cancelling the justice pvp has put an end date in sight for me, not sure when, but I know now that I will eventually quit. That's one last person contributing to the game, and to the community (I craft a lot for other people.)

So potentially, there is a lot to lose.

A little tangent/rant here... Sure we could have another game like world of warcraft, guild wars, FFXIV, or whatever, there are so many of them. It seems all MMORPGs have been going this way since internet use became really common around the mid-2000's and world of warcraft was released. The newer population of gamers seem to share similar sentiments and expectations, of which seems to be the dominant opinion; it hasn't always been. It's a shame, really. When I started playing MMORPGs, they had a lot of dynamic elements with many consequences and rewards, which generated really interesting gameplay.

But this new generation doesn't seem to want that, they want gameplay without consequence, which makes for less interesting gameplay. The new generation of gamers want token systems, the removal of RNG, instanced everything(chests, dungeons, loot), repetitive/predictable gameplay, action oriented combat, min/max rotations via quickly recharging abilities, no penalty on death, being able to resurrect yourself an unlimited amount of times, and little to no pvp. There are so many games like this now... I really don't want ESO to be one of them. If I wanted to play a game like that, I would go play FFXIV.

The justice pvp system is the first thing ive heard about a modern MMO that I was excited about, it was the first time I felt actually interested in playing an MMO. ESO itself made me realize that I basically forced myself to play FFXI, and FFXIV, hoping again to one day have an experience like asherons call or dark age of camelot. ESO has brought that experience back.

NobleNerd wrote: »

When I heard about the idea of the PvP Justice System for the game I thought back to the days of ArcheAge and their Bounty System. There was much that XL Games got right with that side of the game and I was excited to see some real depth and possibly player controlled content coming to ESO.

It can be done and it can be done in a way that even the Carebears would not have to be inconvenienced, but remember if you choose to steal you will have consequences.... period!

Now reading that they are pretty much abandoning this element has caused me some conflict and it is looking like I will be looking elsewhere for a rich and involved PvP content in an MMO... even Cyrodiil has become more and more disappointing for rich PvP content. It has become nothing but huge AP Zergs on all sides just killing each other and ignoring any objectives or strategies in the zones.

It's funny how this would make pvp rich as if it wasn't before. If all the pvp players are engaging in "AP zerg" what makes you think they won't turn this into bait trap gankfest. Your answer is exactly why this shouldn't be an open pvp mechanic. Make it another mechanic in Cyrodiil and leave the mainland out of it. Cyrodiil is where pvp happens.

Messy1 wrote: »

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

It's a scrapped idea so this poll is pointless. Where is that option? /thread?

This poll is not pointless, the idea is scrapped, but if we continue to have a lively discussion about it maybe ZOS will revisit the idea.

Highly unlikely at this point. The PvP portion of the Justice System was a proposed part of the system when they first spoke on it. Im sure you can find the AmA on Reddit if you want to go look through the discussion that was first had between the Players and the Devs. This was back around this time last year so at most theyve had close to a year to try and figure out how to make it work in the game.

Itll be extremely rare for them to ever go back to this topic as theyve already spent a good portion of money and man power trying to work it into the game and failed.

Heck, people practically forgot about the Justice System PvP until they brought it back up. So I find all of these topics on the subject hilarious. Since the community obviously didnt really care all too much about it until they were told theyd never have it. Looks alot more like an excuse to be dramatic to me.

I'm against it because I just want duels/arenas and battlegrounds.

Arkady wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

When I heard about the idea of the PvP Justice System for the game I thought back to the days of ArcheAge and their Bounty System. There was much that XL Games got right with that side of the game and I was excited to see some real depth and possibly player controlled content coming to ESO.

It can be done and it can be done in a way that even the Carebears would not have to be inconvenienced, but remember if you choose to steal you will have consequences.... period!

Now reading that they are pretty much abandoning this element has caused me some conflict and it is looking like I will be looking elsewhere for a rich and involved PvP content in an MMO... even Cyrodiil has become more and more disappointing for rich PvP content. It has become nothing but huge AP Zergs on all sides just killing each other and ignoring any objectives or strategies in the zones.

It's funny how this would make pvp rich as if it wasn't before. If all the pvp players are engaging in "AP zerg" what makes you think they won't turn this into bait trap gankfest. Your answer is exactly why this shouldn't be an open pvp mechanic. Make it another mechanic in Cyrodiil and leave the mainland out of it. Cyrodiil is where pvp happens.

@Arkady I really do not understand what your response has to do with my quoted post. Much of this post has people talking about suggestions of how you can effectively implement the system without it falling apart. Even ArcheAge got this one right, so it is not as hard as one would think!

Hopefully ZOS rethinks their decision. This was a terrible thing to do.

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Arkady please try to read through the previous posts before commenting.
I know this thread has a lot of pages, but the reason is because it is a game mechanic that many of the players want to see.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2594543/#

I know ZOS could implement this badly and ruin everyone's experience, but the OP's intention was to show them that there ARE a lot of good ways this could go without turning into a gankfest.

The reason this thread has a lot of pages is because it is a game mechanic that a lot of players want, and a lot of players do not want. I'm delighted that the thread is still alive because it serves as a continuing reminder to ZOS of the reason for their decision in the first place.

Every time there is any attempt to bring PvPers and PvEers together in the same place there is tension, the different playstyles simply don't mix. Cyrodiil works only because it was designed that way at launch, but IC and the Justice System represent modern additions that only provoke tension between the playstyles. I'm glad that ZOS has now recognised that. If PvPers want to argue the case for a version of the Enforcement system to be adopted in the PvP zones then that's fine, but trying to slip open world PvP through the back door by dressing it up as part of the PvE content isn't going to work and it isn't going to happen.

I have absolutely no problem with PvP, but I do honestly believe that PvPers would be better off discussing the best ways of implementing the additional PvP content we know they are already going to get rather than agonising over a change to the Justice System that we know isn't going to happen because the decision has now been taken. I understand the frustration and disappointment of the PvPers who wanted it, but there's plenty more PvP content coming precisely along the lines they have requested and this is the time now to help shape it.

NobleNerd wrote: »

Arkady wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Arkady please try to read through the previous posts before commenting.
I know this thread has a lot of pages, but the reason is because it is a game mechanic that many of the players want to see.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2594543/#

I know ZOS could implement this badly and ruin everyone's experience, but the OP's intention was to show them that there ARE a lot of good ways this could go without turning into a gankfest.

I read through the thread and your suggestions in the links.

All are inadequate solutions that are geared to gimp pve players from good rewards unless they put themselves at the mercy of pvp gankers. That's really what the obout, putting pve players at the maximum exposure to pvp players who are experienced at this type of gameplay where the pve players are not. The pvp players just want more cannon fodder. The only "thieves" getting good rewards would be those who are already pvp players.

I've been down this road before. I started playing mmos with Lineage and followed up with Guild Wars. Real pvp is all about taking the most advantage from your enemies in any way possible. It's about winning the day, not how you win it. All of these suggestions are how to make the system work to advantage of pvp players at the expense of pve game play.

Nothing in this thread has shown me that a pve player could just play the system "pve only". All of these suggestions are geared at somehow making the pve player feel okay about having to pvp. They won't.

The only reasonable suggestion I've seen is to add the pvp portion of the justice system to Cyrodiil.

Really the system should not be looked at as a pvp / pve. The fact of the matter is if you choose to commit a crime then you are considered a criminal. If caught you should receive a bounty. With said bounty a player that has chosen the path of justice should be able to hunt down said criminal and/or a npc guard should be able to apprehend you.

If you do not want to be hunted by a npc guard or a player then DO NOT DO THE CRIME.... plain and simple.

#TheWhineStopsHere

As it stands now, justice is purely PVE. If you are caught by an NPC, you get a bounty and are liable to be stopped by a guard; if you resist, the guard can kill you. Changing the system to allow players to go after those with bounties does indeed change it to PVP. So the PvE/PvP distinction is valid. This would be a significant change and I for one am happy ZOS decided it would be problematic and discarded the idea.

Arkady wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Arkady please try to read through the previous posts before commenting.
I know this thread has a lot of pages, but the reason is because it is a game mechanic that many of the players want to see.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2594543/#

I know ZOS could implement this badly and ruin everyone's experience, but the OP's intention was to show them that there ARE a lot of good ways this could go without turning into a gankfest.

I read through the thread and your suggestions in the links.

All are inadequate solutions that are geared to gimp pve players from good rewards unless they put themselves at the mercy of pvp gankers. That's really what the obout, putting pve players at the maximum exposure to pvp players who are experienced at this type of gameplay where the pve players are not. The pvp players just want more cannon fodder. The only "thieves" getting good rewards would be those who are already pvp players.

I've been down this road before. I started playing mmos with Lineage and followed up with Guild Wars. Real pvp is all about taking the most advantage from your enemies in any way possible. It's about winning the day, not how you win it. All of these suggestions are how to make the system work to advantage of pvp players at the expense of pve game play.

Nothing in this thread has shown me that a pve player could just play the system "pve only". All of these suggestions are geared at somehow making the pve player feel okay about having to pvp. They won't.

The only reasonable suggestion I've seen is to add the pvp portion of the justice system to Cyrodiil.

The increased rewards system for flagged PVP players does nothing to limit your rewards. You'd get the exact same rewards from your devious ways as you currently do. It's a risk reward system. You have the option to increase the risk for a chance at increased rewards.

It's basically the same idea as Hard Mode dungeons. You increase the risk of failure by making it much harder to beat but doing so gives you better rewards than you otherwise would making it worthwhile to a lot (but not all) people.

Imagine how much we'd all be laughing at someone who was whining about Hard Mode dungeons giving better rewards than regular dungeons. Why is this suddenly different just because the risk is increased by other players instead of monsters with bigger numbers?

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

ZOS has done the right thing. PvP does not belong in PvE areas. PvP in the justice system means that those who don't want to PvP won't be able to participate in the justice system. We're talking about ZOS. There is no way they can separate a PvP justice system and a PvE justice system.

Please watch Lefty's video, because the system CAN be implemented WITHOUT this happening.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Funkitron wrote: »

Arkady wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Arkady please try to read through the previous posts before commenting.
I know this thread has a lot of pages, but the reason is because it is a game mechanic that many of the players want to see.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2594543/#

I know ZOS could implement this badly and ruin everyone's experience, but the OP's intention was to show them that there ARE a lot of good ways this could go without turning into a gankfest.

I read through the thread and your suggestions in the links.

All are inadequate solutions that are geared to gimp pve players from good rewards unless they put themselves at the mercy of pvp gankers. That's really what the obout, putting pve players at the maximum exposure to pvp players who are experienced at this type of gameplay where the pve players are not. The pvp players just want more cannon fodder. The only "thieves" getting good rewards would be those who are already pvp players.

I've been down this road before. I started playing mmos with Lineage and followed up with Guild Wars. Real pvp is all about taking the most advantage from your enemies in any way possible. It's about winning the day, not how you win it. All of these suggestions are how to make the system work to advantage of pvp players at the expense of pve game play.

Nothing in this thread has shown me that a pve player could just play the system "pve only". All of these suggestions are geared at somehow making the pve player feel okay about having to pvp. They won't.

The only reasonable suggestion I've seen is to add the pvp portion of the justice system to Cyrodiil.

The increased rewards system for flagged PVP players does nothing to limit your rewards. You'd get the exact same rewards from your devious ways as you currently do. It's a risk reward system. You have the option to increase the risk for a chance at increased rewards.

It's basically the same idea as Hard Mode dungeons. You increase the risk of failure by making it much harder to beat but doing so gives you better rewards than you otherwise would making it worthwhile to a lot (but not all) people.

Imagine how much we'd all be laughing at someone who was whining about Hard Mode dungeons giving better rewards than regular dungeons. Why is this suddenly different just because the risk is increased by other players instead of monsters with bigger numbers?

Just because it is players, people tend to do whatever they can to cheat, exploit etc to get ahead of other people in PvP, I wouldn't want that to happen in a PvE environment, and PvE players vastly outnumber PvPers, so it's just nice to not have to deal with PvP outside of cyrodiil, PvP is broken enough as it is without having to drag it outside of cyro.

Theres a very good reason it wasnt implemented. And as a PvPer I think ZOS made the right decision to keep with the status quo for PvE Zones. The PvPers who are upset with it havent even bothered to realize that while ZOS is taking away something they said they wanted to do. Theyve also caved on something they said they wouldnt. Duels.

danno8 wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD

What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?

Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).

What I believe to be Lefty's suggestion (and everyone's suggestion on this thread) is that the opt-out system would be a checkbox in the settings. If you opt-out, absolutely nothing changes for you, it stays as it is, regardless of your actions and the level of your bounties : you cannot be attacked by players, only by guards.
Only thing that could possibly change is that you could see players fighting around you, but it would not impact you whatsoever.

That does impact me if I'm doing a quest and I see people PvPing around me. Most quests are not solo phased and PvP would completely break immersion. ESO may not have started out as being a PvE game with PvP in Cyrodiil, but it ended up that way and the reason it is so popular is because of the PvE, not the PvP.

There's no reason to assume normal PvE zones would become a warzone. Mind you, I'm all for a separate zone for Justice PvP, but even in a global implementation, there's a hundred limitations that could be implemented to make sure Justice PvP is a relatively rare phenomenon. As rare as when you currently see a thief get caught by a guard. I think the immersion argument is to be respected, but I don't share it: there are many things in an open world that could break immersion. Heck, seeing 10 people doing the exact same quest as me, killing a boss spawn is immersion breaking. I don't think the occasional fight in which a criminal is caught would have that much impact, if the right limitations would be in place.

Of all the concerns of what PvP could bring to PvE areas, many of which I agree with, this is probably the only one I completely disagree with. Some guy walking around in a wedding dress is FAR more immersion breaking than 2 people duking it out in the street. In fact the two people fighting in the street may even be considered MORE immersive.

Full disclosure: I'm not a huge fan of PVP. I don't hate it. I will even occasionally dip into it, for a change of pace. But I'd happily play an MMO that didn't include it at all.

That being said. I agree that people fighting it out in the streets can in no way be considered immersion breaking as isolated incidents (nor are guys in dresses immersion breaking tbh - these aren't iron-age-monotheistic Earth cultures). My guess for the immersion concern is about the volume of such conflicts.

If you are in a town and once in a blue moon you see cops tackling some guy to the ground that's one thing. If you are in a town where every day, multiple times a day, in every part of the town you visit, you see thieves and murderers openly fighting it out with law enforcement - you leave that town, because clearly there is something wrong there. I think implementing it in certain areas (Riften from Skyrim springs to mind) makes sense. Seedy towns with strong criminal elements. But if you saw something like that happening in every town, and in the Alliance capitals it *would* necessarily change the feel and flavor of the game.

Maybe that's something some players would find immersion enhancing - Molag Bal is destroying the world and the fabric of society is coming apart so that crime soars. But for other players (disparagingly referred to as carebears) it would effectively kill the pleasant elements of the game world that make it an appealing escape from the real world.

it should be a thing

how tf do i change my vote on mobile. im for it not against