joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO
My counters work I'm just making a statement based on 1 v x encounters hence why I put the video below as reference it seems you didn't see that but that's ok. The problem for me is when I look at it the ability its self is indeed a gap closer so I compare it to other gap closer skills (not ultimates) and see that that's the only skill with no minimum range on top of what @FENGRUSH said it's the stun you get/roots that make it quite annoying.

@FENGRUSH I'm not sure when ZoS would ever fix this issue maybe in the next ESO live if they stop focusing on lore questions and skin questions; they may finally focus on combat mechanics for once and fix that issue by instead of making it a stun they could just make it a movement impairment (slowed) like it was before.

I've faught fengrush many times and listened to his stream. He finds it annoying because it's the only thing that counters his crit Rush/stampede + wb + streak away rinse and repeat combo. Fengrush nerd rages on stream because he can't do his 3 button combo against ambush spammers.

And I hope they fix wb spamming which is far worse than ambush spamming right now. If you want to complain about something lets talk about everyone running wb and how it's the only skill in the game that has rediculous range, insane damage, causes cc, and has a 1 sec windup that locks onto target and can be animation canceled. Min distance on stamped and crit rushes doesn't even matter when combined with wb because wb hits from outside range of crit Rush min distance.

I could manage fine with sword and board - I use 2hander for crit rush which heals 100% with stam sorc crit surge. Rage about ambush is from any and all classes - it screws up character animations and completely shuts down mobility due to unintended changes to fix gap closers missing.

So if youve listened to the stream you should know thats the complaint about ambush, and that I always tell people its a problem with all gap closers. Ambush is worse because it cannot be line of sighted, like all other gap closers, essentially cutting off the ability to shake a target or use mobility.

Clicked your profile for post history to see if youre NB but first post I read was golden:

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

This is ***. Yellow has the full map and the campaign is faction locked for yellow. I just lost 15k stones because a red is still able to stay in imperial city if they log out and log back in when they lose faction lock? Stupid mechanic and defeats the purpose of even having faction lock if opposing faction can camp and gank in sewers.

An AD that wants to PVE safely in a PVP expansion! Cmon bro.

doesn't that skill hit like a wet noodle? They were hitting u for like 2k a pop... nerfing the distance requirement is dumb, it is the unintentional .5 second stun that it adds that needs to be looked at.

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO
My counters work I'm just making a statement based on 1 v x encounters hence why I put the video below as reference it seems you didn't see that but that's ok. The problem for me is when I look at it the ability its self is indeed a gap closer so I compare it to other gap closer skills (not ultimates) and see that that's the only skill with no minimum range on top of what @FENGRUSH said it's the stun you get/roots that make it quite annoying.

@FENGRUSH I'm not sure when ZoS would ever fix this issue maybe in the next ESO live if they stop focusing on lore questions and skin questions; they may finally focus on combat mechanics for once and fix that issue by instead of making it a stun they could just make it a movement impairment (slowed) like it was before.

I've faught fengrush many times and listened to his stream. He finds it annoying because it's the only thing that counters his crit Rush/stampede + wb + streak away rinse and repeat combo. Fengrush nerd rages on stream because he can't do his 3 button combo against ambush spammers.

And I hope they fix wb spamming which is far worse than ambush spamming right now. If you want to complain about something lets talk about everyone running wb and how it's the only skill in the game that has rediculous range, insane damage, causes cc, and has a 1 sec windup that locks onto target and can be animation canceled. Min distance on stamped and crit rushes doesn't even matter when combined with wb because wb hits from outside range of crit Rush min distance.

I could manage fine with sword and board - I use 2hander for crit rush which heals 100% with stam sorc crit surge. Rage about ambush is from any and all classes - it screws up character animations and completely shuts down mobility due to unintended changes to fix gap closers missing.

So if youve listened to the stream you should know thats the complaint about ambush, and that I always tell people its a problem with all gap closers. Ambush is worse because it cannot be line of sighted, like all other gap closers, essentially cutting off the ability to shake a target or use mobility.

Clicked your profile for post history to see if youre NB but first post I read was golden:

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

This is ***. Yellow has the full map and the campaign is faction locked for yellow. I just lost 15k stones because a red is still able to stay in imperial city if they log out and log back in when they lose faction lock? Stupid mechanic and defeats the purpose of even having faction lock if opposing faction can camp and gank in sewers.

An AD that wants to PVE safely in a PVP expansion! Cmon bro.

Cool story bro. Bring in a past post I wrote that has nothing to do with the discussion.

Not sure what you mean by screws up character animations. If it stops your combo of streaking and crit Rush than yeah I was right, it screws up your mobility which is the point. Everything should have a counter should it not?

You don't always explain and I don't watch every stream. From what I've seen you just rage because nb give you the hardest time due to ambush, min distance or not. Which is what we are discussing. Not the fact that ZOS has implemented a stupid mechanic that when an opposing player dies in axe they are allowed to stay.

Not sure what you mean by screws up character animations.

What have you been doing since 1.7 launched, gap closers root your target 100% and that locks you out of controlling your character 100%. If you get gap closed by 5 people in a group of 10, you literally cannot move or cast anything.

This happens with any gap closer, but teleport strike doesn't have a minimum distance, and any NB can spam it on you to lock you down, hence thread.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Lol NBs always wanna cry about their abilities being "Balanced" ambush locks you into position thanks to lack of minimum range cast, 1 sec stun from gap close, and lack of being un-able to line of sight it in comparison to all other gap closers. Scream L2P all you want but it's completely B.S and don't even get me started with the fact that you're granted empower for a skill that if you're in range can be cast'd instantly.

Lol even WB needs a 1 sec wind up before being able to cast it before granting empower but nah NBs Ambush because they
need extra DPS due to them being "Squishy" ; even though they have passives that promote physical resistance.

NBs are squishy because they decide to be based on armor not on class sorry that doesn't work DKs lack that passive and skill wise we all have a physical resistance buff.

I have no idea why these NB's decided to spam Ambush/Lotus Fan on you. But there really is, and it has been like this since release, only a couple reasons to spam this skill. That is to lock down a particularly pesky runner or mistformer, so your alliance mates can kill them. In that sense the ability functions no diff than say Bombard, Encase, Talons. Aside from the Empower, which you can take it or leave it honestly.

This ability has functioned this way since release, but it's only become a source of contention for a month or two. Now why do you think that is? It's the changes the devs added to all gap closers. Adding a minimum distance will not solve the issue folks have with this ability. I can spam stampede, toppling (when it's not bugged), invasion all day long with just taking one step back from the target.

In short what needs to be "fixed" is the root the devs added to all gap closers.

Also for clarification, Ambush does not have a stun component. It does however have a 1 second "immobilize". The dev added 1 second "root" also does not stun, it simply roots you, however this can not be dodged or rolled out of. With that said, if Ambush is used from stealth (Crouch only) it will receive the stealth bonus damage and stun just like a number of other abilities.

And lets be honest here, in the video you posted you were going to die. Regardless of the abilities that were used on you, there were at least 3 others just watching the spambush and lolling. So I have to ask why it really matters what abilities you died from? It really doesn't, except that it pissed you off.

I'd like to see/test the changes they are doing to the "gap closer root" in the next update before we change anything. Because it's a glaring example of how wrong things can go when they try to "fix" things.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

You can spam gap closers but if I'm in your face you won't be able to spam that. Comparing ambush to other abilities that aren't gap closers is what I'd call ill-comparison. That's like me comparing a cars break to a bicycles break it just doesn't make sense.
Ambush does have a stun componet all-though it's "Immobilize" that right there hinders me along with gap closers 1 or .5 second stun (I say stun because of the inability to make my character respond during that specific time frame).
If you want to see more videos I will gladly record more I recorded that one basically due to how horrible they were in terms of ambushing me constantly. You for some reason also believe I cannot 1 v x based on the way you said "lets be honest here, in the video you posted you were going to die", that's your assumption right there mate.

In that video it shows I was marked the player who marked me was the one who I attacked, if I had known the others would interfered I would've engaged the battle in a entirely different way. Also in-case you don't know in IC haderus most people tend to 1 v 1 there as I was walking by that's when I was marked by the player who then ran away & started to jump up and down signaling me he/she wanted a 1 v 1.

I'm sorry, but being locked in place is NOT a stun.

I regularly run around on my healer to just troll people. I have been spambushed by 2+ nb's repeatedly and I can heal quite fine. All you get is a slight hitch in movement, but it does not hinder casting one bit. I have NO issues with multiple Ambushes on any of my classes.

List of abilities I can spam laughing at spambushers. (In no particular order or specific class)

Vigor
BoL
Healing Ward
Combat prayer
Rapid Regen
Rally
Fear
Cloak* Note* less effective if they are spamming Lotus Fan instead of Ambush.
Puncturing sweep
WB
Bombard

And the list goes on.


I will give you that 4+ people spamming any combination of gap closers does "seem" to stun you though. Especially if they are timed well (or poorly depending on your outlook)

Maybe as those characters you do but as a stam DK who's skill sets are very limited (pretty much all wind ups) that in-ables me from being able to hit them especially when you put fear in the mix with ambush.

I seriously doubt you would survive no matter how much heals you had if a NB uses fear on top of ambush because you only talk about those who solely use ambush while in a real scenario that player will mix in fear too although SA would be the next step.
Being locked in one place while being movement impaired surely feels like a stun especially after ambush repeatedly counts as a gap closer therefore giving the gap close .5-1 sec root thus allowing you not to be able to hit.

On a 1 v 1 it's simply fossilize + caltrops a NB is finished he/she usually just spams fear + SA after that.
Regardless my point stands that as a gap closer ambush needs the same treatment every other gap closer has which is a minimum range cast an the inability to use such a skill once you line of sight them.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Maybe as those characters you do but as a stam DK who's skill sets are very limited (pretty much all wind ups) that in-ables me from being able to hit them especially when you put fear in the mix with ambush.

I seriously doubt you would survive no matter how much heals you had if a NB uses fear on top of ambush because you only talk about those who solely use ambush while in a real scenario that player will mix in fear too although SA would be the next step.
Being locked in one place while being movement impaired surely feels like a stun especially after ambush repeatedly counts as a gap closer therefore giving the gap close .5-1 sec root thus allowing you not to be able to hit.

On a 1 v 1 it's simply fossilize + caltrops a NB is finished he/she usually just spams fear + SA after that.
Regardless my point stands that as a gap closer ambush needs the same treatment every other gap closer has which is a minimum range cast an the inability to use such a skill once you line of sight them.

To be clear, I am not opposed to Ambush/Lotus having a min range added. What I was however stating is that it would have zero effect if someone chose to spam it if they did give it one.

The ability comes with a 1 second immobilize, within that immobilizes duration I could take a step back and do it again, repeat. I'm guessing the immobilize is there because every class has some way to aid in remaining in melee range. DK's have Talons, Templars have Toppling and Sorcs have a few options. Regardless of the reason for it, removing the "dev" root and even giving it a min range would not detract those who really wanted to spam it from doing so.

Now to address you not being able to attack your target. That's not quite accurate, as the majority of your abilities don't require you to be facing your target to fire off and hit. Some will even auto-face you (even while rooted). However the majority of people just try to repeatedly break free and roll dodge, not knowing what to do. And imo that's the real issue.

Even in the video you posted. you only tried to cast 2 abilities, none of which would help in this situation, and roll dodged 3 times locking your bars up due to the CD for quite some time. You had Take Flight up, which if use would have changed the fight quite quickly. However with Shuffle being the second ability you casted, it looks like you spent more time trying to figure out how to move than actually countering these bad players.

As you stated above, A Fossilze, Caltrops, Take flight would have changed this situation quite quickly. I'm not saying your were playing badly, but I am saying you wasted WAY too much time roll dodging and generally just eating all that damage while doing it.

Like I said before you seem to feel that video was suppose to be a 1 v x gone bad that video was based off me doing a supposed 1 v 1 that turned into a 1 v x and I was just like woah. I'm not sure what stam DK would use talons against enemies but maybe you just don't play one if so that's ok that's just lack of information.

If ambush had a min range it would be less spam-able because all I would do is just get in your face and yes it is hard to attack unless you have abilities that hit them like a whip, fossilize hits but it doesn't hit hard due to it scaling off magicka like most of every DKs abilities. when you're immobilized all that NB has to do is ambush and change directions (walking through me) while you are trying to retaliate and repeat that in its self is what I do experience when I fight 1 NB who relies on that constantly.
In those situations I'm able to break free cast shuffle so I won't be immobile anymore and through up a caltrop with fossilize and turn the tables (if I had not been in a prior engagement and my resources are good).

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

like I've stated countless times why should Nightblades posses the only skill that is a gap closer that has no minimum range restriction while every other skill has one?

Can't check right now, but doesn't take flight also not have a minimum range? Yes, it can't be spammed, but according to your definition it should have a min range aswell.

Ultimate>regular skill.. No question ask
Edit. Nvm. My bad. Your refereeing to him if it was talking about all range attack has to have min. Range. Thought your telling us take flight needs to have min. Ranged because we can use it as a ranged skill attack.

@Lord_Legion
If it's one person I can deal with it but if it's two I can't. I may cc one using fossilize but the other will lock me down since that skill cannot be line of sighted plus gap closers give a 1 sec stun on top of the movement impairment that skill does anyway (because NBs need to have skills that do 3 things just like almost all of there other skills).

The moment that other NB breaks free if I can't face roll the one who is spamming ambush at me I'd need literally 2 seconds to wreck him before the one I cc breaks free and spams ambush on me again. So no I can't take on two ambushers who lock me down as I can't swing or hit anything as a stam DK.

@kokoandshinb14a_ESO
Sorry I would use my "Powerful" abilities in PvP but unfortunately thanks to all the QQs from all other classes I no longer have a "powerful skill" ultimate on the other hand I have 1 good offensive and 1 good defensive but the defensive one is bad when it comes to more than 1 target while offensive is just decent on more than 1 target.

Ambush needs a min range sorry mate you're free to look at what I said all about it because I don't feel like explaining it to someone who probably skimmed a few sentences and saw me talking about his/her ability and wanted to defend it. I'm not calling for nerfs for the skill I'm asking for a min range and that's it.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

People will always ALWAYS find an ability to spam and honestly if ambush gets nerfed then those players will just use something else.

Nerfing abilities isn't always the answer. (Mainly because ZOS screws it up)

Plus after watching the video you were dodge rolling away and they were using the gap closer they had to keep up with you. With how much you were dodge rolling I could have even used shield charge or crit charge on you... pretty much after each dodge roll and those have minimum ranges. Not trying to blow up your post or "troll" just saying. I do realize that ambush spam is a thing and players get annoyed but in this instance you were far enough away that even if they gave it a minimum range... they could have still used it. I still stand by my original statement that nerfing solves nothing. Just ask Impulse, Wall of Elements, magicka DKs, streak and soon Steel Tornado (from what I have heard they plan on doing... they're going to really screw that ability)

No. Nerfing a grossly OP and broken ability is most definately the answer. Ambush needs a nerf. Honestly, the entire NB class and all skill lines needs a nerf.

Therium104 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

People will always ALWAYS find an ability to spam and honestly if ambush gets nerfed then those players will just use something else.

Nerfing abilities isn't always the answer. (Mainly because ZOS screws it up)

Plus after watching the video you were dodge rolling away and they were using the gap closer they had to keep up with you. With how much you were dodge rolling I could have even used shield charge or crit charge on you... pretty much after each dodge roll and those have minimum ranges. Not trying to blow up your post or "troll" just saying. I do realize that ambush spam is a thing and players get annoyed but in this instance you were far enough away that even if they gave it a minimum range... they could have still used it. I still stand by my original statement that nerfing solves nothing. Just ask Impulse, Wall of Elements, magicka DKs, streak and soon Steel Tornado (from what I have heard they plan on doing... they're going to really screw that ability)

No. Nerfing a grossly OP and broken ability is most definately the answer. Ambush needs a nerf. Honestly, the entire NB class and all skill lines needs a nerf.

You don't get it, nerfing isn't the answer because ZOS NEVER gets it right. They always go overboard and kill the ability all together. Maybe if they had a track record of nerfing correctly where they are still usable it'd be fine... but they don't.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

People will always ALWAYS find an ability to spam and honestly if ambush gets nerfed then those players will just use something else.

Nerfing abilities isn't always the answer. (Mainly because ZOS screws it up)

Plus after watching the video you were dodge rolling away and they were using the gap closer they had to keep up with you. With how much you were dodge rolling I could have even used shield charge or crit charge on you... pretty much after each dodge roll and those have minimum ranges. Not trying to blow up your post or "troll" just saying. I do realize that ambush spam is a thing and players get annoyed but in this instance you were far enough away that even if they gave it a minimum range... they could have still used it. I still stand by my original statement that nerfing solves nothing. Just ask Impulse, Wall of Elements, magicka DKs, streak and soon Steel Tornado (from what I have heard they plan on doing... they're going to really screw that ability)

No. Nerfing a grossly OP and broken ability is most definately the answer. Ambush needs a nerf. Honestly, the entire NB class and all skill lines needs a nerf.

You don't get it, nerfing isn't the answer because ZOS NEVER gets it right. They always go overboard and kill the ability all together. Maybe if they had a track record of nerfing correctly where they are still usable it'd be fine... but they don't.

Need to fix what is broken. NB is broken overpowered.