does BOP only, help elite players unfairly?

Waffennacht · January 2016

Which is more difficult vMA or solo vCoA?

Serious question

Magdalina · January 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Which is more difficult vMA or solo vCoA?

Serious question

You can't solo Valkyn(and I'm not so sure about Maw either. But Valkyn is just way too much damage AND a dps race if you're undermanned). You(or well, someone out there at least

) can do vMSA

I have almost 2 manned COA though and a couple friends of mine did 2 man it recently...

In my limited experience with vMSA so far(only up to 5th round) vMSA is harder than 2 manning COA(somewhat close to 2 manning Valkyn, which is the hardest fight there). There is the part where I've done COA 62648451312 times by now and only set foot in vMSA twice so far though.

EDIT: Well, at least I believe you cannot solo Valkyn

There might be someone out there to prove me wrong, but it would be feat much more remarkable than completing vMSA I'd say.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Looks pretty obvious to me that ZOS takes a LOT of care of casuals (whatever that means : non min-maxed, non competitive, not "elite", less playtime, RP-oriented, enjoying lore and landscape more than combat, whatever).
So yes, there's the planar inhibitor, the flesh sculptor and VMSA. And leaderboards.
Don't elite people deserve something to chew on ? I don't think everyone should be able to do *everything*. We have 98% of the game (mindnumbingly easy and boring for them), let them have what they have.
The new trial will probably be insanely hard, at least the first few months, and me and my guildies aren't going to see the end of it any time soon. So be it. That's OK.
Not sure what the BoP or grinding or RNG issues have to do with it.

.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

BoP is a cheap mechanic to keep players coming back to the content. Sure some will stick around for it but the longer these players play the content and dont get what they want. The more likely they are to leave the game and possibly for good.

Its not about wanting Elite Players. Its about artificially prolonging the endgame contents usefulness.

dlepi24 · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Lol, have you even noticed the direction this game is headed? Were you around when the game was actually challenging when it came out? Do you know how many times I (and many others) died to Doshia in the first fighters guild quest? Recently I went back through and expected a battle and lagged the game out because I killed her too fast before she changed forms. The game is the easiest cake walk that exists. Veteran dungeons start to make it somewhat challenging but only for those who aren't comfortable with their build or that dungeon yet. ZOS just always nerfs everything when people cry about it being too hard. Look at the IC dungeon. There's supposed to be hard challenging content you have to work for. Right now the only thing in the game like that is Vet Maelstrom. I have a friend who is in the top 1% of PvP players on Xbox and just now beat it for the first time. Granted, neither of us are PvE players but we understand the mechanics. Stop getting everything nerfed.

eliisra · January 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Which is more difficult vMA or solo vCoA?

Serious question

I cant think of a single VR dungeon that would be easier to solo than vMA. It's only mechanics that are simpler and more straight forward in dungeons, so people confuse that with being easier. Spike- or instakill dmg in vMA can mostly be avoided. You can also plop defence- or heal sigil in vMA if something in a wave hits exceptionally hard. That's what I do, since in dont play magicka sorc with 25k shield. I grab the sigil when I know there's insane physical dmg incoming.

Normal 4-man dungeons are generally easier to solo on level than vMA tho

Still, many dungeons cant be solo'ed to begin with, due event or boss using a control move.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

Zos caters to casuals too much. Trials and dsa are still not scaled and many competitive players just quit, not to mention 90% of the game is solo quests.
And I've never seen a single person who geniunely likes vMA. Most of people just want the weapons, and just a few want a decent score.
Speaking of weapons, why a casual that prefers solo questing would even need top-notch stuff? On these forums they're bragging all the time how their approach to the game is superior and use "minmaxer" and "elite" as derogatory terms. Why dont they just let the 1% of playerbase just have fun in 0.5% (if you count all old trials, dsa, vcoa and ic dungeons... Maybe even less) of game's content?

urkonse · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

im stuck at Frozen ring myself. all before it were quite easy for me.

in my opinion ZOS cares about any skill players

..but seems they still want only people who uses mic ._.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

ZOS created normal and veteran content.
This should be relabelled casual/new and hardcore to better reflect the target audience.
This is all fine and dandy in PvE land.
The problems manifest a lot more in PvP.

How can someone really consider themselves "the best" when they are using the most powerful weapons and gear to give them a numerical advantage over everyone else ?
That's not winning on merit....that's winning with an unfair advantage.

All the more reason most will play black water blade than the veteran campaigns.

As long as the hardcode players don't stamp all over the non-vet stuff and vice versa,
I dont see an issue other than casual PvP players are pretty much stuck with black water blade.
So what happens at 50+ ??
At least there will be a non-cp vet campaign.. that's a good start.
The new trial comes in normal and vet mode too.

Troneon · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

I actually dont think these weapons are that great....

You lose set bonuses by using them...

They are ugly skins.....

Sure they boost some stats and have sometimes good enchants...but you lose so much in other stats and set bonuses..

Not worth it imo.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Troneon wrote: »

I actually dont think these weapons are that great....

You lose set bonuses by using them...

They are ugly skins.....

Sure they boost some stats and have sometimes good enchants...but you lose so much in other stats and set bonuses..

Not worth it imo.

I can't name a single set bonus that I'd suffer from losing for using the Staves.

Waffennacht · January 2016

@Magdalina @eliisra

Thank you very much for your responses. Very informative,

So just to be clear, it goes: Solo Vet dungeon (if possible) vMA, and then would it be IC world boss? Two Flag IC boss?
Im trying to find out the difficulty ranks between dungeons and boss.

I want to know what is the most difficult solo possible. And their order.

My experience is:

The world boss Wrothgar Dragon thing, Two Flag sewer IC boss, World boss IC Nunatak/Baron Thirsk, Solo Normal Dungeon.

I have yet to attempt v dungeon or vMA, trying to work my way in order.

I assume its: vet dungeon, vMA, specific world boss wrothgar, IC bosses, rest of Wrothgar bosses, normal dungeon, everything else...

How accurate am I?

And why is this in this thread? Because from this list there seems to be plentiful of difficult or even impossible things to keep an "elite"entertained

Troneon · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

I actually dont think these weapons are that great....

You lose set bonuses by using them...

They are ugly skins.....

Sure they boost some stats and have sometimes good enchants...but you lose so much in other stats and set bonuses..

Not worth it imo.

I can't name a single set bonus that I'd suffer from losing for using the Staves.

If you are using 5+1+3+3 you would lose one of the 2/3 set bonuses by using a master weapon.

For example, 5 set armor, 1 set shoulder, 2/3 set dual wield/staff+head (2 set bonus from head+staff or 3 set bonus from head + dual wield), 3 set jewellery. Then on top of that you lose nirnhoned for spell penetration and spell resistance on your weapons...

Plus the fact the skins are not very nice looking imo.

Doesn't seem worth losing anything and seems like a pretty big loss for not much gain.

Maybe it makes more sense for stamina builds..

BabeestorGor · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Looks pretty obvious to me that ZOS takes a LOT of care of casuals (whatever that means : non min-maxed, non competitive, not "elite", less playtime, RP-oriented, enjoying lore and landscape more than combat, whatever).
So yes, there's the planar inhibitor, the flesh sculptor and VMSA. And leaderboards.
Don't elite people deserve something to chew on ? I don't think everyone should be able to do *everything*. We have 98% of the game (mindnumbingly easy and boring for them), let them have what they have.
The new trial will probably be insanely hard, at least the first few months, and me and my guildies aren't going to see the end of it any time soon. So be it. That's OK.
Not sure what the BoP or grinding or RNG issues have to do with it.

.

This
"Elite" players have to accept that most of the content is at a difficulty level that the rest of us can complete, let them have a few things they can boast about
Personally I (as a fairly mediocre player) think things have gotten a bit to easy. I read about what the major pve set pieces were like and think about how easy I found them and wish Anghof was a bit more challanging than he is now
I think theres a case for setting a 3rd difficulty level higher than veteran for those who find the current dungeons too easy. Not much extra reward, just an extra acheievement and slightly better loot tables, but give those who've mastered things something to play with

Casdha · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Yes I do think that they use BoP to much but only because they have made Crafting a part of it. Nearly 2 years in and I still don't see the fascination with masks or Master Weapons. Why, because it isn't my thing.

I know If I can't beat vMA I have little hope of beating those that can in PvP (all though there you can get lucky sometimes). That doesn't take away from my fun though, because I also know that because I try to get better when I can, and because of that I'm not the worst player out there. I do get the occasional kill, and that is enough for my type of play.

You don't have to be elite to have fun in this game. Like in PvP if you are not good, just join a group and follow instructions and you will do fine and no one will complain. It's not like the old days when you had only so many lives to complete the game or you had to start over from scratch.

Edit: Well trials you do have to start over, but not with a zero level character.

Funkopotamus · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Just because there are items/rewards that you cannot obtain easily doesn't mean ZOS are out to get you man..

That is what is wrong with ESO in my eyes it is CasualScrollsOnline..

I am glad to see ZOS step up and move this game AWAY from BabiesFirstMMO..!

Magdalina · January 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Magdalina eliisra

Thank you very much for your responses. Very informative,

So just to be clear, it goes: Solo Vet dungeon (if possible) vMA, and then would it be IC world boss? Two Flag IC boss?
Im trying to find out the difficulty ranks between dungeons and boss.

I want to know what is the most difficult solo possible. And their order.

My experience is:

The world boss Wrothgar Dragon thing, Two Flag sewer IC boss, World boss IC Nunatak/Baron Thirsk, Solo Normal Dungeon.

I have yet to attempt v dungeon or vMA, trying to work my way in order.

I assume its: vet dungeon, vMA, specific world boss wrothgar, IC bosses, rest of Wrothgar bosses, normal dungeon, everything else...

How accurate am I?

And why is this in this thread? Because from this list there seems to be plentiful of difficult or even impossible things to keep an "elite"entertained

@Waffennacht

It's an interesting topic for me because I 2man/solo things a lot. So wall of text incoming, beware...

Some of Wrothgar WB are really easy to solol(Corinthiac the Abomination, I'm looking at you), the titan("dragon") one probably is the hardest.
Vet dungeons are tricky because most of them have mechanics that flatout prevent soloing(coocoon and Nerien'eth grab in CoH, Malubeth in Wayrest, chains mechanics of second boss in Fungal etc), the easiest one - the only one I know quite a few people have soloed - is Elden.
(If you wanna talk about specific mechanics of stuff and under-manning it, PM me, I love talking about that

)

However, you're quite wrong to call this "plentiful things to keep "elite" entertained". These things are challenging to solo(mainly because they were not made to be soloed) but...well, again, they were not made to be soloed. It means they're in best case challenge for the sake of challenge and one players find for themselves rather than one provided by ZOS. There's 0 incentive to solo group instances - it is a waste of time, soulgems, gold for repairs/food/pots and the rewards/xp are the same you'd get from running with groups(speaking of which, I personally think it'd be pretty cool if ZOS made dungeon xp/rewards scale up for undermanned teams - for instance if you could 2 man EH pledge you'd get not 1 but 2 keys, if you could solo it you'd get 5 and appropriate amount of experience or something, but I figure this isn't exactly on the priorities list)...

Also, soloing stuff is just...not fun sometimes. I guess it's the biggest reason people don't like vMSA all that much(I mean even people who can and do successfully complete it). It's stupidly punishing and there's no one to share your success/failure/rage at moar bugs with nor work together as a team with. Back then when vDSA was actually a real challenge it still always felt fun(frustrating sometimes, but fun nonetheless) - we were learning, communicating, joking, picking each other up etc. We were learning to work as a team, trying to find ways in which we could help the team or in which the other team members could help us if we were lacking something. It was interesting.
In that way it's still interesting for me to 2 man vet dungeons, for instance, but not so fun to try to solo them.

Tl;dr - what "elite" need is more group content to learn with their groups, not old content being so easy it becomes possible to solo. And they/we do want and need some reward to show for it(going back to the original topic

).

krim · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Magdalina wrote: »

Tl;dr - what "elite" need is more group content to learn with their groups, not old content being so easy it becomes possible to solo. And they/we do want and need some reward to show for it(going back to the original topic ).

The "elite" what ever that is, that play this game most likely came to this game for the pvp. I think they would be happy with PvP fixes and content. To not keep dumbing the game down like they have been doing.

Magdalina · January 2016

krim wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Tl;dr - what "elite" need is more group content to learn with their groups, not old content being so easy it becomes possible to solo. And they/we do want and need some reward to show for it(going back to the original topic ).

The "elite" what ever that is, that play this game most likely came to this game for the pvp. I think they would be happy with PvP fixes and content. To not keep dumbing the game down like they have been doing.

I was speaking for the PvE side of things because this discussion is about PvE.
And I'm not fond of that term("elite") but hey, can't take words out of the thread's title while you're not the OP

krim · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Magdalina wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Tl;dr - what "elite" need is more group content to learn with their groups, not old content being so easy it becomes possible to solo. And they/we do want and need some reward to show for it(going back to the original topic ).

The "elite" what ever that is, that play this game most likely came to this game for the pvp. I think they would be happy with PvP fixes and content. To not keep dumbing the game down like they have been doing.

I was speaking for the PvE side of things because this discussion is about PvE.
And I'm not fond of that term("elite") but hey, can't take words out of the thread's title while you're not the OP

Theres just nothing elite about the pve in this game.

Refuse2GrowUp · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

krim wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Tl;dr - what "elite" need is more group content to learn with their groups, not old content being so easy it becomes possible to solo. And they/we do want and need some reward to show for it(going back to the original topic ).

The "elite" what ever that is, that play this game most likely came to this game for the pvp. I think they would be happy with PvP fixes and content. To not keep dumbing the game down like they have been doing.

Pretty poor assumption to think hardcore players, or elites, or whatever vague term you want to use, only play for PvP. Personally, I would love more challenging PvE content. Tho, this is an MMO so I prefer group play over solo stuff. I would love to see a bunch more 12 man trials and even a couple 24 man ones.

But of course, God forbid it is difficult, or all the whiny bit...es will be here asking for nerfs and making threads such as this one.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Troneon wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

I actually dont think these weapons are that great....

You lose set bonuses by using them...

They are ugly skins.....

Sure they boost some stats and have sometimes good enchants...but you lose so much in other stats and set bonuses..

Not worth it imo.

I can't name a single set bonus that I'd suffer from losing for using the Staves.

If you are using 5+1+3+3 you would lose one of the 2/3 set bonuses by using a master weapon.

For example, 5 set armor, 1 set shoulder, 2/3 set dual wield/staff+head (2 set bonus from head+staff or 3 set bonus from head + dual wield), 3 set jewellery. Then on top of that you lose nirnhoned for spell penetration and spell resistance on your weapons...

Plus the fact the skins are not very nice looking imo.

Doesn't seem worth losing anything and seems like a pretty big loss for not much gain.

Maybe it makes more sense for stamina builds..

My statement still stands. I don't use DW on my main and wouldn't bother since it'd waste some of the bonus I receive from using an Inferno staff. There are no bonuses that I'd lose that I can't make up for in another regards and the enchantments on those staves is more useful to me than not.

Lenikus · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

OP mistook "Rewards" with "Handouts"
simple mistake, can we let this thread die now?

Waffennacht · January 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Tl;dr - what "elite" need is more group content to learn with their groups, not old content being so easy it becomes possible to solo. And they/we do want and need some reward to show for it(going back to the original topic ).

The "elite" what ever that is, that play this game most likely came to this game for the pvp. I think they would be happy with PvP fixes and content. To not keep dumbing the game down like they have been doing.

Pretty poor assumption to think hardcore players, or elites, or whatever vague term you want to use, only play for PvP. Personally, I would love more challenging PvE content. Tho, this is an MMO so I prefer group play over solo stuff. I would love to see a bunch more 12 man trials and even a couple 24 man ones.

But of course, God forbid it is difficult, or all the whiny bit...es will be here asking for nerfs and making threads such as this one.

I understand what he is saying. No matter what, the more competitive action would be vs another human. The more intense fighting is PvP. Not so much they don't want to PvE just the challenge PvP brings atm is so much higher than PvE.

I believe he is just pointing out where those whom want to can actually find the most involved combat and where.

Ethromelb14_ESO · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

I think that ZoS tries to put content in the that will allow everyone of all skill levels to have some fun. It can get difficult to try and make that content less tedious without having most people feel like the game is not a challenge. The game would boring fast; so they have to give you a reason to make multiple attempts.

My overall thought is, if everybody can get it, it's probably not worth getting. For some things at least.

kirk_lewis_ESO · January 2016

This is one of the most casual minded MMO out there which is why the Vet ranks are going away so count your blessings.

yodased · January 2016

Can you even play maelstrom without buying the dlc first?

That's where the real caring comes from lol the pocketbook, not the skill level

hedna123b14_ESO · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

Troneon wrote: »

I actually dont think these weapons are that great....

You lose set bonuses by using them...

They are ugly skins.....

Sure they boost some stats and have sometimes good enchants...but you lose so much in other stats and set bonuses..

Not worth it imo.

The Maelstrom weapons are often BiS for min/Maxing (PvE wise at least)

Tholian1 · January 2016

eso cares about everyone?

The status symbol rewards for completing "elite" content should be limited to ultra rare titles, dyes, costumes, pets or mounts. Items affecting the gameplay of others shouldn't be included if they can't at least be sold to other players.

Xantaria · January 2016

I consider myself elite and think ESO caters to casuals.

This game is easy as *** and I wonder why you didn't include this option into your poll.