does BOP only, help elite players unfairly?

Korah_Eaglecry

I know ZOS has watered down some of the content. But I dont think its just that thats playing a role in why things seem so easy for us. Anyone thats played more than one character or played since Beta has come to learn the ins and outs of the game enough that we know what to expect from Mobs and Bosses. Once you have their rotations memorized. Of course its going to come off easy. Its quite easy for us to remember that this particular boss requires us to get far away from it when it coils up rather than beat on it or just get outside the circle.

When the game first began we didnt have this sort of knowledge of the game mechanics and what made the mobs/bosses different from each other and why tackling them the same way wouldnt work. Now we have that knowledge and the challenge is gone. This is the inevitable direction of all games and MMOs. Especially MMOs since they need to draw in newer and newer players. The contents difficulty cant be increased on the old timers behalf. It needs to stay the same for everyone.

PainfulFAFA

eso cares about everyone?

The game keeps getting dumbed down every patch.
I remember back in launch trying to get good and test builds, compare numbers, develop rotations, but it all doesn't matter anymore. Just get your Hundings, Agility, Wrecking blow, or your Julianos, WIllpower, and you're set.

Messy1

eso cares about everyone?

Well, this is borderline LOL cause the game is pretty easy to get goid gear through research crafting, grinding Wrothgar dailies, or just running vet dungeons a bunch. I do agree that the Bop thing is kinda crap.

Sir_Highfield

eso only want elites?

Tholian1 wrote: »

The status symbol rewards for completing "elite" content should be limited to ultra rare titles, dyes, costumes, pets or mounts. Items affecting the gameplay of others shouldn't be included if they can't at least be sold to other players.

This is the point I have been trying to make the whole time. I wish I said it as simply and concise as this. For those who have being saying I've been trying to argue for a nerf, read the whole thread properly and tell me where I said that. If items where not BOP then gameplay would be fair. Use other things to reward ppl.

BTW I did say also that my question wasnt very good, but I was pissed that night, and by the time I put it up it was pounced upon so was too late to change. But I'm not arguing for nerfs. Oh and those who are saying its soo easy already I'm very proud of you ;P

Volkodav

eso cares about everyone?

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

In fact ZOS has rather clearly shown their biggest concern is the casual crowd and they're not overly interested in appeasing those of us that look for a challenge in fear they might alleviate those that are not looking for one. So option 3

Personally I find it quite sad.

Alleviate doesnt mean aggravate. To alleviate means to take ease,weaken,or deaden.Just saying,not being rude. :}

Fixed

I'm glad you werent offended.I didnt mean it that way. :}

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

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Nikkor

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

The general discussion is fine, however edits in this post were made to remove discussion on sharing account access. Keep in mind that this is a major violation of our Terms of Service for both (or all) participants. We do not want to encourage this as a gameplay option.

I understand. I do hop that ZOS realizes that it happens a lot though. I am factually sure that the completion numbers on ps4 are not accurate for vet maelstrom. There are players that complete the arena for other players.

pronkg

eso cares about everyone?

No, eso is really really easy

Pangnirtung

If the OP was right then there would be no 501 CP cap.

As it is this game is dumbed down. How much dumber or easier do you want it?

Autolycus

This is a pretty narrow-minded concept, as described in the OP.

vMA is currently the only form of elite content in this game. Everything else is either PvP, or too easy for long-term players. Even Wrothgar is geared to new and casual players, and that's okay, because there is at least one thing in this game that takes a hot second to beat.

And yes, I mean "long-term" players and not "elite" players, because anyone who has put enough time and effort into their class & gear stands a chance in vMA. Does that make it easy, or less time consuming? No. But don't think for a second that people who earned their Maelstrom weapons didn't spend hours upon hours of frustration and tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of gold to complete it.

There are a lot of people who refuse to do vMA and have instead used crafted weapons, and it works. If you don't want to do it, then don't. If you don't have time, then it is a (sincerely) unfortunate situation. Perhaps there is something like a checkpoint system being worked on to help these people, but it's not mandatory that they do so. Handing over Maelstrom weapons to people who simply do not want to do it is a childish request, like asking to go play outside with your friends before you finish your chores.

threefarms

Apparently, eso cares about everyone but Templars.

IrishGirlGamer

eso cares about everyone?

Oh please ...

willymchilybily

eso cares about everyone?

Vet maelstrom isn't hard as much as practicing it is hard, being dedicated to it. I only played it a few hours a day when not helping guildies run pledges finally completed a few weeks back with purple gear 369 cp and a v1 molag kena helm. You don't need to be elite no lifer in IC dungeon dropped gold gear max cp to Beat it, just determined and persistent and ask for help if you are struggling, I recived a lot of great advice on these forums that got me through stage 4 and stage 7. And honestly If you can complete stage 4 boss before getting swamped with adds you have enough dps for the entire thing. The rest is tactics and practice. To get to the final boss.

That's half the battle. Alas the final boss is half the battle again.

As for catering to elite players. No they cater to the dedicated grinders, but not nearly as much as they do to the casuals

Cp catch up and cap, vet rank removal, buying monster helms. Dont get hung up on one facit you can't do first time.

Sir_Highfield

eso only want elites?

Autolycus wrote: »

This is a pretty narrow-minded concept, as described in the OP.

vMA is currently the only form of elite content in this game. Everything else is either PvP, or too easy for long-term players. Even Wrothgar is geared to new and casual players, and that's okay, because there is at least one thing in this game that takes a hot second to beat.

And yes, I mean "long-term" players and not "elite" players, because anyone who has put enough time and effort into their class & gear stands a chance in vMA. Does that make it easy, or less time consuming? No. But don't think for a second that people who earned their Maelstrom weapons didn't spend hours upon hours of frustration and tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of gold to complete it.

There are a lot of people who refuse to do vMA and have instead used crafted weapons, and it works. If you don't want to do it, then don't. If you don't have time, then that's unfortunate, but that's hardly ZOS's problem. Handing over Maelstrom weapons to people who simply do not want to do it is a childish request, like asking to go play outside with your friends before you finish your chores.

There are many ways to be rewarded without unbalancing fair play for all in pvp. eg, great costumes, dont allow weapons in pvp, or BOE.
What your saying is either the person who gets this weapon reward has no right to sell it, or the weapon is no better than a crafted item (so is not a great reward).
So lets recap.
The maelstrom weapon is really great reward and unbalances fair play in pvp and the person who achieves it has no right to sell it no matter how many they end up with, which may go some way toward re-balancing.
The maelstrom weapon is not a great reward so there is no point going for one anyway. In this case whats wrong with the reciever being able to make a quid from it?

Refuse2GrowUp

eso cares about everyone?

[quote="Sir_Highfield;2628092"There are many ways to be rewarded without unbalancing fair play for all in pvp. eg, great costumes, dont allow weapons in pvp, or BOE.
What your saying is either the person who gets this weapon reward has no right to sell it, or the weapon is no better than a crafted item (so is not a great reward).
So lets recap.
The maelstrom weapon is really great reward and unbalances fair play in pvp and the person who achieves it has no right to sell it no matter how many they end up with, which may go some way toward re-balancing.
The maelstrom weapon is not a great reward so there is no point going for one anyway. In this case whats wrong with the reciever being able to make a quid from it?[/quote]

You keep trying to force your opinion on everyone, but very few agree with you. Yes, we understand your point. Simply, the vast majority of us do not agree. Suggest you drop it and put the effort into getting better at the game

Septimus_Magna

eso cares about everyone?

Its mainly hurting the bank accounts of the elite players.

With hard to get BoE items they could make a ton of gold by selling these items.

V14 Healer and Footman jewelry used to be quite expensive for example.
Everyone could get these items by buying them from players that farmed vDSA.

Currently elite players cannot sell their drops and casual players can simply get good crafted gear sets.

failkiwib16_ESO

To be honest I really hate the Bound-on-Pickup mechanism, however I don't consider it as supportive of elitism either. All dungeons and content in this game can be done with a good group setup, and for solo content you don't need to be an elitist to grind that content either.

If veteran Maelstrom Arena is hard, go do the normal version like so many other players and get v15 rewards.

Same goes for dungeons like Dragonstar Arena, White Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison. If you struggle in the dungeon as a casual player, go and grind the normal version to get your equipment.

---

I have gained so many Molag Kena helmets that I've even begun to deconstruct ones with good traits, meanwhile my friends who did the dungeon 150+ times haven't got a single helmet yet ...and they are better players than me.

Autolycus

Sir_Highfield wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

This is a pretty narrow-minded concept, as described in the OP.

vMA is currently the only form of elite content in this game. Everything else is either PvP, or too easy for long-term players. Even Wrothgar is geared to new and casual players, and that's okay, because there is at least one thing in this game that takes a hot second to beat.

And yes, I mean "long-term" players and not "elite" players, because anyone who has put enough time and effort into their class & gear stands a chance in vMA. Does that make it easy, or less time consuming? No. But don't think for a second that people who earned their Maelstrom weapons didn't spend hours upon hours of frustration and tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of gold to complete it.

There are a lot of people who refuse to do vMA and have instead used crafted weapons, and it works. If you don't want to do it, then don't. If you don't have time, then that's unfortunate, but that's hardly ZOS's problem. Handing over Maelstrom weapons to people who simply do not want to do it is a childish request, like asking to go play outside with your friends before you finish your chores.

There are many ways to be rewarded without unbalancing fair play for all in pvp. eg, great costumes, dont allow weapons in pvp, or BOE.
What your saying is either the person who gets this weapon reward has no right to sell it, or the weapon is no better than a crafted item (so is not a great reward).
So lets recap.
The maelstrom weapon is really great reward and unbalances fair play in pvp and the person who achieves it has no right to sell it no matter how many they end up with, which may go some way toward re-balancing.
The maelstrom weapon is not a great reward so there is no point going for one anyway. In this case whats wrong with the reciever being able to make a quid from it?

I never said either of these things. I said if you don't want to do it, take the next best alternative.

I have and always will stand firmly in support of BOE items. The point in question here is whether or not it's unfair to players who can't complete it. I think it's extremely unfair to hand vMA weapons over to people who refuse to do it, but not necessarily those who cannot. We can't really fairly analyze that concept unless we break down the "can't complete it" aspect:

There is a large number of people who are giving vMA their best efforts, and I will be the first to commend the efforts and success of others. For these people, it's only a matter of time. You'll get it, and you'll feel great about it, and hopefully you'll get your weapon. It gets easier every time.

There are also a large number of people who don't have the time to sink into vMA. This is something important that ZOS needs to consider. I don't think vMA should be nerfed, but I do genuinely like two suggestions:
1. Add a checkpoint system to vMA. If one uses the checkpoint system, they are disqualified from the leaderboards. There's still a chance at loot, but no weekly.
2. Add a mid-tier difficulty, something that is between nMA and the current vMA. This would really help players that have a lack of time to dedicate.

There are a lot of people who simply don't want to do it, but they really want those weapons. This group is by far the loudest of them all, and the vast majority of their arguments are "I don't wanna, gimme gimme gimme." I'm an open-minded and reasonable person. The people who make these statements have no right to vMA rewards. If you can't beat it, it's one thing. If you refuse to go, then too bad, you don't get gear. It's really simple.

Of these three classifications, the third is by far the loudest and least deserving. I will gladly take a BOE item, whether I'm the one selling it or buying. This would benefit a great deal of people who maybe just don't have enough time to do it, or who are really giving it their all, and haven't gotten it yet. I suppose the BOE would fix it for the third group too, but I find it difficult to hand over rewards for the hardest content in the game to people who only think of themselves, and don't know or don't care what the reality of the situation is. It's selfish to think one deserves something just for logging in. If those people think vMA is hard, then wait for the next trial. At least then you'll have 11 other people to carry you through it.

Autolycus

I would also like to make note of two more things:

I could argue all day that vMA will make you better at PvP. It certainly helped me in PvP, and I'm not even talking about the weapon. The weapon is great, but forget the weapon, because what so many people fail to recognize is that there is something far more valuable that comes out of vMA, and that's a step up in player skill. Ask anyone who has completed it. I'm betting they will tell you they got a lot better as a player - regardless of gear - from spending that time in vMA.

That being said, I find the argument that vMA weapons make PvP unbalanced to be a load of smelly echatare dung slathered upon the real issue, which is lack of player skill. I've killed people who are using vMA weapons without using one myself, simply because I was better than that person, even if they are a good player, I was better in that fight. Giving me another vMA weapon changes nothing. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. I fail to see how handing over items to people who have done nothing to earn it is a solution.

BOE is a different case, because you had to have earned that money from somewhere. You know that vMA weapons are going to be 100s of thousands of gold each, if not millions. It's not like everyone and their dog can afford that kind of thing.

Robotmafia

eso cares about everyone?

pretty sure eso cares more about the casuals and less expirienced players... it offers little challenging end game content and has developed more content for everyone rather than for those at tip of the skill pyramid...

if everyone can achiev everything easily there is no motivation left for the hardcore / better players... and the only thing right now are a couple of weapons... giving everything to everyone makes nothing special anymore...

Autolycus

Robotmafia wrote: »

pretty sure eso cares more about the casuals and less expirienced players... it offers little challenging end game content and has developed more content for everyone rather than for those at tip of the skill pyramid...

if everyone can achiev everything easily there is no motivation left for the hardcore / better players... and the only thing right now are a couple of weapons... giving everything to everyone makes nothing special anymore...

You make some really good points. I really do believe ZOS cares just as much about the ESO veterans as the new and casual players, however. I've had conversations with a couple of people from ZOS, and coupled with what other veterans in the community are saying, it's clear that they are considering both sides of the table.

I recognize the lack of transparency when it comes to known issues and ETAs (#NOETA), but the fact is that they are a business, and they operate as such (and this means taking care of the influx of new customers, who are definitely shoveling cash out to play). I doubt anyone has ever worked in a setting without having something break, go wrong, or turn out to be a worse idea than it initially sounded. If it makes anyone feel better about this, think about the game in it's current state, and compare that to what it was a year ago.

DMBCML

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Yes, eso cares only about elite players, that's why they announced to increase the cp cap buy such a lot from the dark brotherhood patch on that you need 30 minutes of questing every day to keep up with it. How should a normal player ever be capable of playing 30min each day? Only no lifers can wast that much time on an online game.

Seems to me they promised you would never have to spend hours, days, weeks or months for the best gear. The best gear was supposed to be crafted. They said they weren't going to force you to PvP either. Now, the best skills are PvP and to get the best gear you have to either PvP or farm. To get all the skyshards you must PvP.

It's not about being a dedicated player, or a good player, or even an elite player. It's about broken promises regarding the direction of game play, and people spent LOTS of money based on that promise. This game was supposed to be different from the others. Sadly, it is quickly slipping into that "other" mindset with unhappy results for everyone.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I can't believe people are even participating this poll.

Lokov

eso cares about everyone?

Sir_Highfield wrote: »

Because the great weapons are only available bind on pick up to pll who can manage to complete Maelstrom arena, giving ppl who can complete it access to these weapons and no one else who may want to buy and cant do it.

U can complete Malestorm Arena with crafted equip. If you cant - IT"S YOUR PROBLEM, not a problem of players that already complete it.
If you can't choose the correct equipment and abilities - SURPRISE! But this is your problem again!
Stop whyne about malestorm weapon cuz its not always better then crafted )))

Kas

the question marks near the poll options infuriate me more than they should....

Shunravi

eso cares about everyone?

Kas wrote: »

the question marks near the poll options infuriate me more than they should....

I know right? They should be interrobangs! ( !?)

Danksta

BoP only helps ZoS. I'm sure elite players would like to sell their Maelstrom weapons that they don't intend to use. BoP just ensures people that REALLY want those weapons will grind for them, thus commiting hours and hours to playing ESO. Advantage ZoS.

Joy_Division

eso cares about everyone?

Has ZoS ever actually made content more difficult? Not that I can think of.

How can such a practice be considered catering to elites?

AltusVenifus

eso only want elites?

This is my biggest grip with the game. That and PVP servers that don't have CP limits, aka server with 0, server with 1-150 cp, server with 150 300 etc...

I remember when MMO weren't gear feasts... then everquest came along and companys are still doing that dumb stuff.

Vezuls

ESO doesn't care about the end gamers and caters to casuals

Where's that option?

They took group damage away, and everything is BoP, meaning we can not sell things which makes it pretty hard to make money. All of this was done because casuals complained about it.