Hitting 5 times in 0.5 seconds

Alcast · January 2016

You cannot do 3 Surprise attacks in 0.5s.

Idinuse · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Vox wrote: »

Latency?

that is honestly the answer.
i thought before that it was from hax, or even animation canceling and even thought for a time it was macro cheats. but its just plain lagg and latency. you can see it also when you see people running. all of a sudden the entire group stands still, i go stand next to them wondering why not moving then all of a sudden everyone JUTS far ahead.
same thing - latency and lagg. nothing more.

*sigh*

I have to say that Zos have done some amazing code achievement since channeled skills somehow are totally unaffected by this "latency" referred to, only instant cast skills. They are also completely absent from the 200 or so screenshots I have, as mentioned. Amazing.

Perhaps the answer to all latency and lag problem in Cyrodiil would be to make all skills channeled. I think we're on to something here...

*pinches nose bridge even firmer and sighs, now in STerEO, with @leepalmer95 *

acw37162 · January 2016

diskiukas wrote: »

Oh surprise attack is nothing, many times I was looking at my death recap after being killed in second or so and I would see 3 Wrecking Blows registered delivered to me with love by the same player. I move a lot and have experience of PVP since release and to even get caught with 3 Wrecking Blows in a row is highly unusual. Lag actually works opposite, you dont take any damage at all at first. I know how death works when you are lagging, it's not the case in here.

I've had this happen to me a lot recently.

I've watched videos for how animation canceling works but I've seen no videos how three wrecking blows from the same player can hit all at once.

Most of the times I see this is in lag so it could be lag or latency but part of the reason some players like wrecking blow so much is besides the really good damage, besides the empower buff, and besides the hard cc, it's one of the animations you can play with the most.

They need to adjust the back end animation wonkiness on WB, WB users will cry to heavens but it really should be looked at.

aidenmoore · January 2016

Even if OP exaggerate the time, it is still hold true. Getting killed within 2-3 secs is still a problem in Cyrodiil. There is no way for average players can react that quickly and not knowing what to react to due to animation cancelling.

AFrostWolf · January 2016

Either way, If it is animation cancelling then it's just bad design. The fact that ZOS allows it at all instead of fixing is shows they aren't committed to balancing the game.

Alucardo · January 2016

Wait, how the hell do you animation cancel 3 consecutive surprise attack? Something smells in here, and it smells like bullsh*t

Alucardo · January 2016

"Oh, I see people are making threads about animation cancelling. Let me jump on the bandwagon with made up stories to try and eliminate this technique I don't know how to pull off"

RatedChaotic · January 2016

Most of the time its lag. Eso pvp is #1 for pvp lag.

It was lag. Nothing registered then ''bam'' everything registered at once hence why you died so fast by that many skills in that short of time. You dont animation cancel using 3 of the same abilities back to back to back. There will be light/heavy attacks between them.

Lylith · January 2016

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

Isn't it pretty coincidental that the "latency" always seems to happen when certain players are around?

isn't it, though?

TheValkyn · January 2016

Shardaxx wrote: »

ok so I've seen this before, but please ZOS can you sort out the loophole whatever it is that allows some players to deliver 5 or 6 attacks in almost zero time? Asking around its due to "animation cancelling" but however they are doing it, its just getting ridiculous.

Today in cyrodiil I got jumped by a NB and died in about 0.5 seconds, checking the combat log they hit me with:

Heavy Attack, Heavy Attack (Dual Wield), Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, all in less than a second.

My heavy attacks take longer than that entire sequence to do, so how is this possible to deliver these attacks so quickly? Sort this out ZOS its just so annoying.

PS4 has combat logs? The more you know.

WillhelmBlack · January 2016

Gap closer silence/root, stun and combo. Can't dodge roll or break free. Far from 0.5 secs but enough time for this...

http://youtu.be/VJ4aDbTATZA

Darkeus · January 2016

same stuff happened to me also in pvps, guess what i never ever pvped again. i want a pvp where i can react and act not where i blink and i get 10 skills/hits in my face in no time.

mtwiggz · January 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Gap closer silence/root, stun and combo. Can't dodge roll or break free. Far from 0.5 secs but enough time for this...

http://youtu.be/VJ4aDbTATZA

Been seeing a lot of this lately.

My main is a NB, often when I Ambush an enemy from stealth I realize that it doesn't seem like they can break free. I've talked back and forth with some of my prey and they confirmed this. I understand in the IC patch they added a 100% snare while getting hit from a gap closer, which is an absolute bandaid fix and should have never happened. Yet this isn't just a snare, this is a full on "OMG I CANT DO ANYTHING GOING TO DIE" CC. Not sure what causes it and it's definitely not strictly from Ambush. Only thing I can think of is the 100% snare coupled with lag.

Malmai · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

3 surprise attack in 0.5 seconds is an impossible thing to do. No matter what. So it's more likely due to latency or a wrong sense of time.

if you mess up packets u can do it why not.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Wait, how the hell do you animation cancel 3 consecutive surprise attack? Something smells in here, and it smells like bullsh*t

Light attack>surprise>block cancel.
Macro programs can do that in a very short timeframe, just a few milliseconds.

Wollust · January 2016

Malmai wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

3 surprise attack in 0.5 seconds is an impossible thing to do. No matter what. So it's more likely due to latency or a wrong sense of time.

if you mess up packets u can do it why not.

Care to enlighten me how a simple macro should be able to change the underlying combat mechanics?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Wait, how the hell do you animation cancel 3 consecutive surprise attack? Something smells in here, and it smells like bullsh*t

Light attack>surprise>block cancel.
Macro programs can do that in a very short timeframe, just a few milliseconds.

Wrong. You might be able to optimize it with a macro but no macro can bypass the global cooldown the game has. 3 surprise attack are not possible in under 1 second. No matter what macro and animation cancel you use.

People please learn first about the mechanics before you start scaring new players with some horror tales.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

3 surprise attack in 0.5 seconds is an impossible thing to do. No matter what. So it's more likely due to latency or a wrong sense of time.

if you mess up packets u can do it why not.

Care to enlighten me how a simple macro should be able to change the underlying combat mechanics?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Wait, how the hell do you animation cancel 3 consecutive surprise attack? Something smells in here, and it smells like bullsh*t

Light attack>surprise>block cancel.
Macro programs can do that in a very short timeframe, just a few milliseconds.

Wrong. You might be able to optimize it with a macro but no macro can bypass the global cooldown the game has. 3 surprise attack are not possible in under 1 second. No matter what macro and animation cancel you use.

People please learn first about the mechanics before you start scaring new players with some horror tales.

Yeah, there is a cooldown, but this paired with lag causes insta-kills.

Lenikus · January 2016

I see no death recap on teh OP.
I call qq on this thread ;3

TheBull · January 2016

ZoS needs to make a post explaining the priority system and then sticky it at the top of the forums. It would eliminate so much confusion. OP and others would understand what he said is not possible.

Brutusmax1mus · January 2016

I was hit with lag too. 5 poison injections hit me at once.

Shardaxx · January 2016

TheValkyn wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

ok so I've seen this before, but please ZOS can you sort out the loophole whatever it is that allows some players to deliver 5 or 6 attacks in almost zero time? Asking around its due to "animation cancelling" but however they are doing it, its just getting ridiculous.

Today in cyrodiil I got jumped by a NB and died in about 0.5 seconds, checking the combat log they hit me with:

Heavy Attack, Heavy Attack (Dual Wield), Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, all in less than a second.

My heavy attacks take longer than that entire sequence to do, so how is this possible to deliver these attacks so quickly? Sort this out ZOS its just so annoying.

PS4 has combat logs? The more you know.

Yeah you press the D-pad when you're dead to see the attacks that killed you, it tells you that at the bottom of the screen I guess you're not a PS4 player. For others talking about macros or other PC specific stuff, just to be clear, this was on PS4.

For those of you saying I'm lying or wrong about the times, all I can do is say that's how it happened. It seemed like I was hit by one attack and died, only the combat log revealed the 5 actual attacks in there.

Thanks to the guy to said about dual wield heavy attack coming up as 2 attacks in the log, I never realised this before and its good to know.

But the point is I got hit by a heavy and 3 surprise attacks in about the time it would take me to hit with one surprise attack and as I also mentioned this isn't the first time I've seen this, and it seems to happen with certain players all the time which is why I suspect its not random lag or packet loss, but something they are doing to bypass the normal attack durations.

Toc de Malsvi · January 2016

Shardaxx wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

ok so I've seen this before, but please ZOS can you sort out the loophole whatever it is that allows some players to deliver 5 or 6 attacks in almost zero time? Asking around its due to "animation cancelling" but however they are doing it, its just getting ridiculous.

Today in cyrodiil I got jumped by a NB and died in about 0.5 seconds, checking the combat log they hit me with:

Heavy Attack, Heavy Attack (Dual Wield), Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, all in less than a second.

My heavy attacks take longer than that entire sequence to do, so how is this possible to deliver these attacks so quickly? Sort this out ZOS its just so annoying.

PS4 has combat logs? The more you know.

Yeah you press the D-pad when you're dead to see the attacks that killed you, it tells you that at the bottom of the screen I guess you're not a PS4 player. For others talking about macros or other PC specific stuff, just to be clean, this was on PS4.

For those of you saying I'm lying or wrong about the times, all I can do is say that's how it happened. It seemed like I was hit by one attack and died, only the combat log revealed the 5 actual attacks in there.

Thanks to the guy to said about dual wield heavy attack coming up as 2 attacks in the log, I never realised this before and its good to know.

But the point is I got hit by a heavy and 3 surprise attacks in about the time it would take me to hit with one surprise attack and as I also mentioned this isn't the first time I've seen this, and it seems to happen with certain players all the time which is why I suspect its not random lag or packet loss, but something they are doing to bypass the normal attack durations.

That is not a combat log, that is a death recap, and ZOS has stated elsewhere that the death recap is bugged and they are working to fix it.

Toc de Malsvi · January 2016

The death recap also does not give time stamps for the hits so you could have been hit with each ability 5 seconds apart and it would still register same output.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

I think its possible for an exploit to be used here but it depends on how/where the animation cancelling is regulated.
@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

If the cancelling is controlled at the UI stage....
..you can intercept the outgoing packet and delay the initial strikes until the final strike has left the UI.
This way the UI did indeed prevent you being hit by 10 shots at once by inserting a delay....but this delay was then removed on transit to hitting you.

As we are using TCP...those packets will reach you in the same sequence as fired regardless.

If the cancelling is at the server stage too....
The server can inject a delay between any sequence of actions to counter delay removal ..so you wont see 10 skills all hit at once.
But then the server could experience lag in which case it will cache all actions and then release them ASAP...maybe even all at once again.

If cancelling is at the recipient stage too....
The client can inject a delay between any sequence of actions to counter delay removal.
This replaces any time gaps that have been lost/lagged/hacked and should give you a proper chance to respond.
Provided the cancelled skills actually still give you a tell that you can use as feedback to respond to.

So yes it could be bad design / hacking / lag.....but regardless....its fixable.
Without knowing how ZOS programmed the delays there is no way to know whats actually happening.

Using TCP I could send you packet 10 first..then 9 ..then 8...
You will get 1,2,3,4,....all at once as soon as packet 1 comes in.

Kryank · January 2016

On my nightblade 1vx build (I run willows path so not maxed out glasscannon) I can usually hit people with 5 attacks from stealth and kill them it usually takes 3-4 seconds according to ftc.

Heavy bow attack animation cancelled with poison injection>ambush>surprise attack>executioner. Good players break free from the first stealth hits and will roll dodge the ambush or surprise attack, bad players with poor reaction time won't break free until I have hit them with surprise attack and then they eat the executioner.

I have had rage tells telling me I use macros as they all happened in 1 second, but I know they don't as the only animation cancel I use is using poison injection to release the bow heavy attack.

It can seem to the victim that they all come in 1 second but due to lag / or bad recollection they don't.

The only combo that kills in 1 sec is the camo, heavy attack, silver shards combo, and again that's only on glass cannon vamps, and due to the camo procs.

HeroOfNone · January 2016

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

Isn't it pretty coincidental that the "latency" always seems to happen when certain players are around?

Look at my post above, the latency is typically not on your side, but theirs, and there are some pretty basic tests to see if they are exploiting a lag switch.

Shardaxx · January 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

The death recap also does not give time stamps for the hits so you could have been hit with each ability 5 seconds apart and it would still register same output.

Yes but I was there and they didn't hit 5 seconds apart, they hit like one hit in less than a second.

Zavus · January 2016

Did it look something like this?

https://youtu.be/A0ElCOFb9tk?t=8m15s

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

Zavus wrote: »

Did it look something like this?

https://youtu.be/A0ElCOFb9tk?t=8m15s

Camo hunter lol

Waffennacht · January 2016

Just fyi, there are macro controllers for console. Was talking to a guildy that has one, i dunno if he uses it (Would make me really mad if he does)

But they do exist...