Legerdemain is Worth Having Points Into

Autolycus · January 2016

Hey everyone, just wanted to throw out my two septims about legerdemain here. When they first introduced the Justice System, I was on top of that like a fat kid and cake. But, admittedly, in the weeks that followed, I spent less and less time leveling this passive skill line.

I know many are going to disregard this passive line right away, so I will address some reasons for why legerdemain is unnecessary first. Probably foremost on that list is that it is contingent upon your playstyle and the content you spend most of you time in. A hardcore PvP-exclusive player is not going to have use for these passives, save for reduced sneak cost. I would specify here that this applies to Cyrodiil only - I will address this later.

Other common and logical reasons for why leveling this skill line is wasteful in terms of skill points or time sink includes the fact that pickpocketing is useless for all forms of content, except for those who genuinely enjoy picking pockets. The fence transactions are negligible for virtually everyone, unless you get a significant portion of your income from thievery, and the reduction to bounties you willingly pay is situational at best, and if you have the coin, it doesn't really matter what your bounty is, nor is it necessary to pay it off for it to go away.

However, there are a few key aspects within legerdemain that I find to very convenient for a lot of people, and as I brought up some of these QoL improvements to friends, they've started putting their time into leveling it for certain passives, specifically the increased chance to force locks. Referring back to my remark about it only being relevant in cyrodiil: This is because in cyrodiil, chests are few and far between. But IC is loaded with treasure chests, and a large portion of them are intermediate or advanced locks. With all 4 points into this passive, an intermediate lock can be forced with a 75% success rate, and a simple lock is 85%. An intermediate chest can award between 40-70 telvar stones each, where simple ones award between 20-40 each (with a 1x multiplier).

It seems negligible, but consider how many chests you've all seen in the sewers, and how much time we waste watching each other's backs for taking the risk to pick the lock. Since I finally maxed out this passive 3 days ago, I've forced open dozens of chests in IC, and usually just leave it for someone in my group to pick up, because that's how we roll. I have failed a force lock only a single time since then. This is just the most prominent (and rewarding) place that I've found for this passive. I'm sure many others can support its usefulness in other areas of the game, too.

Being able to force locks open has proved incredibly useful in vWGT as well. Typically my groups follow a system where anybody who gets locked in a cell gets themselves out, unless it's the healer, who is set free by a dps. Every lock in WGT (excluding chests) is an intermediate-level lock (75% success rate for maxed passive). This is incredibly useful for shaving 10-15 seconds off of the fight for every person who can force their way out. It may not seem like a lot, but outside of it being incredibly convenient, it can also benefit those who are going for speed runs for the Necrotic Hoarver pet.

I have a pretty good strategy guide for leveling Legerdemain, and I will happily share it with the community. But, considering the length of this post already, and the fact I have no idea how many people will actually find this useful, I will save it for later.

Lightninvash · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Hey everyone, just wanted to throw out my two septims about legerdemain here. When they first introduced the Justice System, I was on top of that like a fat kid and cake. But, admittedly, in the weeks that followed, I spent less and less time leveling this passive skill line.

I know many are going to disregard this passive line right away, so I will address some reasons for why legerdemain is unnecessary first. Probably foremost on that list is that it is contingent upon your playstyle and the content you spend most of you time in. A hardcore PvP-exclusive player is not going to no use for these passives, save for reduced sneak cost. I would specify here that this applies to Cyrodiil only - I will address this later.

Other common and logical reasons for why leveling this skill line is wasteful in terms of skill points or time sink includes the fact that pickpocketing is useless for all forms of content, except for those who genuinely enjoy picking pockets. The fence transactions are negligible for virtually everyone, unless you get a significant portion of your income from thievery, and the reduction to bounties you willingly pay is situational at best, and if you have the coin, it doesn't really matter what your bounty is, nor is it necessary to pay it off for it to go away.

However, there are a few key aspects within legerdemain that I find to very convenient for a lot of people, and as I brought up some of these QoL improvements to friends, they've started putting their time into leveling it for certain passives, specifically the increased chance to force locks. Referring back to my remark about it only being relevant in cyrodiil: This is because in cyrodiil, chests are few and far between. But IC is loaded with treasure chests, and a large portion of them are intermediate or advanced locks. With all 4 points into this passive, an intermediate lock can be forced with a 75% success rate, and a simple lock is 85%. An intermediate chest can award between 40-70 telvar stones each, where simple ones award between 20-40 each (with a 1x multiplier).

It seems negligible, but consider how many chests you've all seen in the sewers, and how much time we waste watching each other's backs for taking the risk to pick the lock. Since I finally maxed out this passive 3 days ago, I've forced open dozens of chests in IC, and usually just leave it for someone in my group to pick up, because that's how we roll. I have failed a force lock only a single time since then. This is just the most prominent (and rewarding) place that I've found for this passive. I'm sure many others can support its usefulness in other areas of the game, too.

Being able to force locks open has proved incredibly useful in vWGT as well. Typically my groups follow a system where anybody who gets locked in a cell gets themselves out, unless it's the healer, who is set free by a dps. Every lock in WGT (excluding chests) is an intermediate-level lock (75% success rate for maxed passive). This is incredibly useful for shaving 10-15 seconds off of the fight for every person who can force their way out. It may not seem like a lot, but outside of it being incredibly convenient, it can also benefit those who are going for speed runs for the Necrotic Hoarver pet.

I have a pretty good strategy guide for leveling Legerdemain, and I will happily share it with the community. But, considering the length of this post already, and the fact I have no idea how many people will actually find this useful, I will save it for later.

I say it would be good to force locks but I never had the need for it in my experience as I pick locks relatively quick in the matter of 1-3 seconds depending on if I mess up and let go too early on a pin. but in the one dungeon with the jailer boss? (one where you need to pick a lock? have yet to do said boss) I could see very useful on that one or if solo in the IC sewers

Magdalina · January 2016

Yeah..I really need to level my Legedermain already for all the chests and those damn WGT cages lol. But the time, the skillpoints(of which I currently have a proud 0 - yay for doing ALL crafting on my main) and the fact that I have no interest in stealing/killing

I'd actually feel kind of bad killing off poor NPCs just for "fun" or to level a skill...my Legedermain is currently a proud 6, leveled purely by unlocking all the chest on my way XD

Taemethius · January 2016

Ledge is very easy to lvl and only takes a few mins a day to do.

Autolycus · January 2016

Taemethius wrote: »

Ledge is very easy to lvl and only takes a few mins a day to do.

This is quite true. I think it ends up being something like 20-30 minutes a day for, oh maybe a week or two? It's not bad at all. Also if you find the right spots, it can be fairly lucrative. I've seen people rack in 15-20k in gold for that same 20-30 minutes a day.

Nestor · January 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

Yeah..I really need to level my Legedermain already for all the chests and those damn WGT cages lol. But the time, the skillpoints(of which I currently have a proud 0 - yay for doing ALL crafting on my main) and the fact that I have no interest in stealing/killing I'd actually feel kind of bad killing off poor NPCs just for "fun" or to level a skill...my Legedermain is currently a proud 6, leveled purely by unlocking all the chest on my way XD

You can level Legerdemain and never kill an NPC. I never have and have 4 mains at L20 and my Mules are at L10/12.

Orsinium is a great place to do this, so is Daggerfall (the two ships near the guild kiosks), and there are several other places in the game where loot is abundant and NPCs are scarce. Since you get points for both Laundering and Selling, when stealing, make sure you also steal provisioning ingredients, foods and drinks. Helpful as they also stack so take up less inventory space. When your bags are full, and this should take less than 10 to 15 minutes, Fence the expensive stuff, and launder the ingredients and mats. It is easy to get 220 Legerdemain points in one day. You can certainly get more if you unlock more of those Fence passives, but I have never spent more than one point in that passive.

Taemethius · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Taemethius wrote: »

Ledge is very easy to lvl and only takes a few mins a day to do.

This is quite true. I think it ends up being something like 20-30 minutes a day for, oh maybe a week or two? It's not bad at all. Also if you find the right spots, it can be fairly lucrative. I've seen people rack in 15-20k in gold for that same 20-30 minutes a day.

I usually just hit roost and grab a bunch of stuff to last me a few days.

Autolycus · January 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Yeah..I really need to level my Legedermain already for all the chests and those damn WGT cages lol. But the time, the skillpoints(of which I currently have a proud 0 - yay for doing ALL crafting on my main) and the fact that I have no interest in stealing/killing I'd actually feel kind of bad killing off poor NPCs just for "fun" or to level a skill...my Legedermain is currently a proud 6, leveled purely by unlocking all the chest on my way XD

You can level Legerdemain and never kill an NPC. I never have and have 4 mains at L20 and my Mules are at L10/12.

Orsinium is a great place to do this, so is Daggerfall (the two ships near the guild kiosks), and there are several other places in the game where loot is abundant and NPCs are scarce. Since you get points for both Laundering and Selling, when stealing, make sure you also steal provisioning ingredients, foods and drinks. Helpful as they also stack so take up less inventory space. When your bags are full, and this should take less than 10 to 15 minutes, Fence the expensive stuff, and launder the ingredients and mats. It is easy to get 220 Legerdemain points in one day. You can certainly get more if you unlock more of those Fence passives, but I have never spent more than one point in that passive.

These are fantastic suggestions. Thanks for your input @Nestor . I emphasize fencing only green-quality loot or better. Everything else should be laundered, and then pawned off to a general merchant somewhere (there's usually one near the fence anyway).

Once your pickpocketing skill is high enough to successfully pickpocket easy and medium targets, go to Skywatch in Auridon. There are easy pickpocket targets everywhere and it levels your Ledge faster than picking locks. Depending on your luck, it can also be faster than stealing random junk and laundering it. Same applies with medium difficulty targets, and eventually when you can pickpocket hard targets, any city guard will do.

Nestor · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

[I emphasize fencing only green-quality loot or better.

For making money, sure only grab the good stuff. But you get one Legerdemain Point for each thing you sell or launder, whether it is 1 Gold or 750 Gold. So, for leveling purposes, grab everything. Its much faster.

Even then, I would net 4500 to 5000 each day just from Fencing, even with my Laundering Fees.

Ourorboros · January 2016

Don't you lose any XP gain if you force the lock instead of picking it?

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · January 2016

I have three dedicated thieves with Legerdemain maxed out and I can rake in over 100k a day If I put them all to work for about 30mins-1hr each.

Usually I just steal with one a night but If I really need money I can have them all steal and make alot of money in a short amount of time.. it's just easier for Bosmer and Khajiit Nightblade thieves and the XP from the safe boxes are awesome as well..

that Purple is Contraband Violet, you only get that from Fencing over 1 million in gold, and I got that a loooooonnnnnggg time ago...

Autolycus · January 2016

Ourorboros wrote: »

Don't you lose any XP gain if you force the lock instead of picking it?

That's an interesting question. I haven't tested this myself, but I do think the exp for unlocking it is forgone. Anyone who can confirm this, please do so.

I order to have the full benefit from the force-lock passive, your Ledge will be at least 19/20... so the exp loss is inconsequential with respect to earning exp towards legerdemain. If you are someone who wants to absorb every little bit of experience for leveling and you aren't already at vr16, then you may want to consider forgoing the force lock passive until then. Again, I personally think the exp is negligible, but it is part of the mechanics nonetheless.

Autolycus · January 2016

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

I have three dedicated thieves with Legerdemain maxed out and I can rake in over 100k a day If I put them all to work for about 30mins-1hr each.

Usually I just steal with one a night but If I really need money I can have them all steal and make alot of money in a short amount of time.. it's just easier for Bosmer and Khajiit Nightblade thieves and the XP from the safe boxes are awesome as well..

that Purple is Contraband Violet, you only get that from Fencing over 1 million in gold, and I got that a loooooonnnnnggg time ago...

Looking snazzy!

NBrookus · January 2016

Yup, level 20 on my main and the lock forcing passive is completely worth it. That, and I fenced over 100,000g doing the leveling.

My alt is a real goody two shoes though. She may have to go evil in a serious way one day.

Ourorboros · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Don't you lose any XP gain if you force the lock instead of picking it?

That's an interesting question. I haven't tested this myself, but I do think the exp for unlocking it is forgone. Anyone who can confirm this, please do so.

I order to have the full benefit from the force-lock passive, your Ledge will be at least 19/20... so the exp loss is inconsequential with respect to earning exp towards legerdemain. If you are someone who wants to absorb every little bit of experience for leveling and you aren't already at vr16, then you may want to consider forgoing the force lock passive until then. Again, I personally think the exp is negligible, but it is part of the mechanics nonetheless.

The XP from open chests is not inconsequential if you open a lot of chests. Craglorn and Wrothgar are loaded with chests. While the equipment is mostly decon junk, chests are a great source of soul gems and glyphs. I've leveled two enchanters to 50 from mostly decon of chest glyphs. I never pass an area without checking the chests in the area. Regarding the XP, when you open that many chests, it has a significant impact. I keep a skill bar with skills I am leveling and switch to it when opening chests. I have leveled multiple skills from level one to morphed level 4 without ever using the skill just from chests and quest turn ins. I've also gained levels and Champion Points from the 'nudge' of chest XP.

I think the Legerdemain passive would be a great benefit in IC, and WGT, but not worth it to me if it means losing all the XP from all the other chests I open. On the other hand, if I can still get XP from a forced chest, I'm all over this. It's the only reason I haven't already.

Teflondon75 · January 2016

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

I have three dedicated thieves with Legerdemain maxed out and I can rake in over 100k a day If I put them all to work for about 30mins-1hr each.

Usually I just steal with one a night but If I really need money I can have them all steal and make alot of money in a short amount of time.. it's just easier for Bosmer and Khajiit Nightblade thieves and the XP from the safe boxes are awesome as well..

that Purple is Contraband Violet, you only get that from Fencing over 1 million in gold, and I got that a loooooonnnnnggg time ago...

I love the color! Can't wait to get mine on PS4. I'm up to about 500K ish now, long time to go yet. I have no idea how you're getting 100K for three characters(in that time frame....30-1Hr each). I've tried just about every city and have settled on one that is best for me...if there are not too many amateur thieves about taking some boxes here and there then I can sometimes hit 1-2 boxes a minute. I have the champ passives for more gold etc and the better loot(only works on regular chests though? i think so) so boxes give 100-120 gold per usually.

Even with that I think I can only pull about 12-15K an hour. I never see purples in lock boxes, often blues but occasionally greens and sometimes only 1 item which slows the 140 per day turn in. And again of course depends on how active the area is. I can see the 33(ish)K per character per day...but how in the heck are you doing it 2-4 times faster lol. I can't imagine going even slightly faster than I currently do.

I'm not asking a fellow thief for his spot, but have any advice for an aspiring robber? I'm an Argonian(no bosmer/khajit unfortunately lol) magica nightblade. 20 Legerdemain. I use the nightshade 3 piece for decreased detection. 60/60/60 mount and, so far crosses fingers, have never been caught. I thought I was doing quite well lol. It would take me 2 hours at least to hit 30K I'd say. Man, it must be the spot haha.

Teflondon75 · January 2016

Chest hunting is fiercely competitive in western Wrothgar, box smashing comes in very handy out there

I can often smash and grab then cloak away before nearby mobs fully stand up.

Wollust · January 2016

People saying it's easy to level up legerdemain, care to enlighten me please? I feel as if it takes me ages to do so

Volkodav · January 2016

I dont go to Cyrodiil or IC,so I have no problems leveling up my lockpicking skills. Ia never even pay attention to t he Legerdemain skill line.

Picknflick · January 2016

Hey guys, complete noob ledgerman here. I read through a couple of the abilities of ledgerman a while ago and have never looked at it until this post. I saw someone recently post they could post a tutorial on leveling ledgerman and I was curious if they still could? I don't know where any fences are and if someone could clarify on 'laundering' versus selling to a fence id appreciate it...not sure what laundering is.

Anyway thanks in advance for any advice.

rfennell_ESO · January 2016

Having maxed legerdemain is awesome for the force lock increase.

Thing I don't get is why does forcing a lock cost a lockpick every time?

Teflondon75 · January 2016

Picknflick wrote: »

Hey guys, complete noob ledgerman here. I read through a couple of the abilities of ledgerman a while ago and have never looked at it until this post. I saw someone recently post they could post a tutorial on leveling ledgerman and I was curious if they still could? I don't know where any fences are and if someone could clarify on 'laundering' versus selling to a fence id appreciate it...not sure what laundering is.

Anyway thanks in advance for any advice.

Don't worry about any tutorials now that orsinium is out. Go to the main keep, grab everything in all the rooms with @NO@ people. Go to any number of houses near there with @NO@ people and grab everything. Go to Outlaws Refuge and find the Fence. "Sell" anything worth more than 1 gold. "Launder" everything that is 1 gold(sometimes you don't fill your sell limit with that rule but have lots of launder goods left...just sell and be done). Laundering means you are "Cleaning" the item, it's still in your inventory and is no longer flagged as stolen. If you find a motif/recipe you want to use or sell then either use it(you do Not have to launder before personal use) or launder it then you can sell it.

Make sure you have lots of room in your packs. Don't worry about being picky, grab it ALL. Click, grab all. Click, grab all. Takes 10-15 minutes a day or less. Turn in Everyday to the fence(Inside the Outlaws Refuge) ASAP put at least 1 point into Trafficker, this allows you to fence/sell much more. 10 days to two weeks ish later you will have 20 Legerdemain or faster if you increase Trafficker more. You'll also, very likely, make 2.5-4000 gold a day after you have your first point into Trafficker. Once you're happy with your skill level(or just go to 20) you can start being a little more picky in what you pick up and can start making real money.

Teflondon75 · January 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Having maxed legerdemain is awesome for the force lock increase.

Thing I don't get is why does forcing a lock cost a lockpick every time?

Yeah no doubt, I figured I was head butting the chest to pieces. Where does the lockpick go?

RazielSR · January 2016

Teflondon75 wrote: »

Picknflick wrote: »

Hey guys, complete noob ledgerman here. I read through a couple of the abilities of ledgerman a while ago and have never looked at it until this post. I saw someone recently post they could post a tutorial on leveling ledgerman and I was curious if they still could? I don't know where any fences are and if someone could clarify on 'laundering' versus selling to a fence id appreciate it...not sure what laundering is.

Anyway thanks in advance for any advice.

Don't worry about any tutorials now that orsinium is out. Go to the main keep, grab everything in all the rooms with @NO@ people. Go to any number of houses near there with @NO@ people and grab everything. Go to Outlaws Refuge and find the Fence. "Sell" anything worth more than 1 gold. "Launder" everything that is 1 gold(sometimes you don't fill your sell limit with that rule but have lots of launder goods left...just sell and be done). Laundering means you are "Cleaning" the item, it's still in your inventory and is no longer flagged as stolen. If you find a motif/recipe you want to use or sell then either use it(you do Not have to launder before personal use) or launder it then you can sell it.

Make sure you have lots of room in your packs. Don't worry about being picky, grab it ALL. Click, grab all. Click, grab all. Takes 10-15 minutes a day or less. Turn in Everyday to the fence(Inside the Outlaws Refuge) ASAP put at least 1 point into Trafficker, this allows you to fence/sell much more. 10 days to two weeks ish later you will have 20 Legerdemain or faster if you increase Trafficker more. You'll also, very likely, make 2.5-4000 gold a day after you have your first point into Trafficker. Once you're happy with your skill level(or just go to 20) you can start being a little more picky in what you pick up and can start making real money.

What do you mean by "main keep"?

Furrelito · January 2016

tips from the theiving queen: the docks of sentinel is an exemplary grind spot for legerdemain.
to get the black market mogul achievement I teleported between hallins stand and evermore grinding safe boxes. auto loot, force locking and rapid maneuver: trash everything but blues and purples and tadaaa

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · January 2016

Teflondon75 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

I have three dedicated thieves with Legerdemain maxed out and I can rake in over 100k a day If I put them all to work for about 30mins-1hr each.

Usually I just steal with one a night but If I really need money I can have them all steal and make alot of money in a short amount of time.. it's just easier for Bosmer and Khajiit Nightblade thieves and the XP from the safe boxes are awesome as well..

that Purple is Contraband Violet, you only get that from Fencing over 1 million in gold, and I got that a loooooonnnnnggg time ago...

I love the color! Can't wait to get mine on PS4. I'm up to about 500K ish now, long time to go yet. I have no idea how you're getting 100K for three characters(in that time frame....30-1Hr each). I've tried just about every city and have settled on one that is best for me...if there are not too many amateur thieves about taking some boxes here and there then I can sometimes hit 1-2 boxes a minute. I have the champ passives for more gold etc and the better loot(only works on regular chests though? i think so) so boxes give 100-120 gold per usually.

Even with that I think I can only pull about 12-15K an hour. I never see purples in lock boxes, often blues but occasionally greens and sometimes only 1 item which slows the 140 per day turn in. And again of course depends on how active the area is. I can see the 33(ish)K per character per day...but how in the heck are you doing it 2-4 times faster lol. I can't imagine going even slightly faster than I currently do.

I'm not asking a fellow thief for his spot, but have any advice for an aspiring robber? I'm an Argonian(no bosmer/khajit unfortunately lol) magica nightblade. 20 Legerdemain. I use the nightshade 3 piece for decreased detection. 60/60/60 mount and, so far crosses fingers, have never been caught. I thought I was doing quite well lol. It would take me 2 hours at least to hit 30K I'd say. Man, it must be the spot haha.

all three thieves are khajiit nightblades that use a 3 pc Nightshade set (2 daggers and a necklace, it increases sneak buffer another 2 meters, works on Npc's, and decreases sneak cost by 22-24% when wearing a 3 pc set, which gives me no sneak cost when wearing 7 pc medium and 4 pts into improved hiding, I can sneak indefinitely when wearing the set, the cost gets so low I actually get stamina when sneaking, its only like 10 or so every 2 sec's but its still not a cost) plus i only steal in 2 towns and know exactly where all the safe boxes are.. sorry I will not name the towns..

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

People saying it's easy to level up legerdemain, care to enlighten me please? I feel as if it takes me ages to do so

go to kenarthi's roost and kill sheepherders watching sheep, then kill all the sheep and launder all the guts and game, also steal and fence up to the limit everyday.

another way is get 100 lockpicks and run along the beach at khenarthi's roost and find chests and pick them open, each chest levels your legerdemain up a bit.. win/win

dsalter · January 2016

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

I have three dedicated thieves with Legerdemain maxed out and I can rake in over 100k a day If I put them all to work for about 30mins-1hr each.

Usually I just steal with one a night but If I really need money I can have them all steal and make alot of money in a short amount of time.. it's just easier for Bosmer and Khajiit Nightblade thieves and the XP from the safe boxes are awesome as well..

that Purple is Contraband Violet, you only get that from Fencing over 1 million in gold, and I got that a loooooonnnnnggg time ago...

am i the only one who thought that purple is very similar to the tint of purple the saints of saints row use?

Teflondon75 · January 2016

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

all three thieves are khajiit nightblades that use a 3 pc Nightshade set (2 daggers and a necklace, it increases sneak buffer another 2 meters, works on Npc's, and decreases sneak cost by 22-24% when wearing a 3 pc set, which gives me no sneak cost when wearing 7 pc medium and 4 pts into improved hiding, I can sneak indefinitely when wearing the set, the cost gets so low I actually get stamina when sneaking, its only like 10 or so every 2 sec's but its still not a cost) plus i only steal in 2 towns and know exactly where all the safe boxes are.. sorry I will not name the towns..

haha, yeah it must just be the spot then. I use the three piece as well and have no trouble with NPCs seeing me etc. It's not a problem getting that cash amount it's time, where I am it would be completely impossible to do in less than an hour with running to and fro, loading through doors, the occasional box not there and amateur thieves grabbing some here and there. In well over 1K safeboxes I have NEVER seen a purple either, not even one. I would think it impossible except I've seen people claim purples from safeboxes....@Shrugs@ The occasional purple drop would change everything in terms of speed.

I've even stopped thieving in town sorta, I still do when I happen to be in town but at least for me, for now, I've found farming Wrothgar chests to be significantly more profitable. I wish I could get what you guys are getting haha, that would be great!

RazielSR wrote: »

What do you mean by "main keep"?

The main keep in Orsinium, Scarp keep.

Autolycus · January 2016

Ourorboros wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Don't you lose any XP gain if you force the lock instead of picking it?

That's an interesting question. I haven't tested this myself, but I do think the exp for unlocking it is forgone. Anyone who can confirm this, please do so.

I order to have the full benefit from the force-lock passive, your Ledge will be at least 19/20... so the exp loss is inconsequential with respect to earning exp towards legerdemain. If you are someone who wants to absorb every little bit of experience for leveling and you aren't already at vr16, then you may want to consider forgoing the force lock passive until then. Again, I personally think the exp is negligible, but it is part of the mechanics nonetheless.

The XP from open chests is not inconsequential if you open a lot of chests. Craglorn and Wrothgar are loaded with chests. While the equipment is mostly decon junk, chests are a great source of soul gems and glyphs. I've leveled two enchanters to 50 from mostly decon of chest glyphs. I never pass an area without checking the chests in the area. Regarding the XP, when you open that many chests, it has a significant impact. I keep a skill bar with skills I am leveling and switch to it when opening chests. I have leveled multiple skills from level one to morphed level 4 without ever using the skill just from chests and quest turn ins. I've also gained levels and Champion Points from the 'nudge' of chest XP.

I think the Legerdemain passive would be a great benefit in IC, and WGT, but not worth it to me if it means losing all the XP from all the other chests I open. On the other hand, if I can still get XP from a forced chest, I'm all over this. It's the only reason I haven't already.

Yeah, that's really your choice, and honestly I have no rebuttal for it. If the exp from opening chests is worth it to you, then perhaps forego legerdemain. The thing is though, there is a long list of other ways to get better exp than chests, so the way I see it is that spending time on the chests means foregoing something else, say killing a trash mob or doing part of a quest, which is more valuable than the exp gain from successfully opening a chest.

Frankly, I find this bit of info rather nit-picky, and I suggest you go about getting your exp however you enjoy the most. For players who are already at vr16, the chest exp is for sure irrelevant once legerdemain is where it needs to be to get whatever passive benefits one may want. I won't deny that if you farm a lot of chests, the exp can add up.

Autolycus · January 2016

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

all three thieves are khajiit nightblades that use a 3 pc Nightshade set (2 daggers and a necklace, it increases sneak buffer another 2 meters, works on Npc's, and decreases sneak cost by 22-24% when wearing a 3 pc set, which gives me no sneak cost when wearing 7 pc medium and 4 pts into improved hiding, I can sneak indefinitely when wearing the set, the cost gets so low I actually get stamina when sneaking, its only like 10 or so every 2 sec's but its still not a cost) plus i only steal in 2 towns and know exactly where all the safe boxes are.. sorry I will not name the towns..

@Wollust ^ these are good suggestions for making the stealing process easier.

In my experience, this was the most efficient method of leveling legerdemain, though I am certain there are many other effective means as well:

Phase 1 - Make loops around Riften, picking/stealing/laundering/fencing every lockbox in every shop, trade stall, guild hall, bank, home, tavern, etc. Riften is loaded with boxes, which gives good experience towards legerdemain and a fair bit of coin, as lock boxes tend to have higher chances of getting purple items (especially if you can snag a rare motif out of one). Do this until legerdemain rank 6-7, at which point you should have 2 points into pickpocketing passive.

Phase 2 - Go to Auridon, at Skywatch. Here there are probably 100+ Skywatch Celebrants, and every one of them is an "easy" pickpocket. There are also a lot of 'mediums" here, and guards are "hard". The only catch to this is that there is no outlaws refuge here, so get good at hiding. You don't need to clear your bounty every time you get caught. See below for details on avoiding guards. Do this until you get to about legerdemain 15 or so. By this point, it should be almost a guarantee to successfully pick "mediums".

Phase 3 - It's mostly about the pickpocket now - typically I stick to Wayrest or Orsinium. There are medium/hard guards and soldiers everywhere, and plenty of room to hide, plus conveniently placed Outlaws Refuges. You'll likely still want to pick up virtually everything else you see along the way too, even if it's just some stolen rotten food or something, because all stolen items can be laundered or fenced. Be sure to launder all white/junk items and fence greens, blues, and purples (except for motifs and recipes - those should be laundered and sold to other players to fetch a much higher value). After you launder an item (because it does cost you money out of pocket to do so) take those now "clean" goods and pawn them off to a general merchant. You will make back the money you spent to launder everything.

That's basically the gist of it - both myself and a friend of mine found pickpocketing to be far quicker in terms of just leveling (though not the most efficient way to make money from it, which is important to keep in mind), rather than simply relying on killing or laundering junk found from containers. Keep an eye on you fence/launder limits - You're likely going to be stealing enough in one day (if you are really adamant about leveling it up) to meet both limits for each day. This is why you want to save your fence transactions for green-quality or better items. Always be sure to launder any type of motif or recipe that you want to sell to the general public.

Tips for Avoiding Guards:
1. Guards will drop aggro if you put some distance between them, and break line of sight. You do not have to go into stealth or invisible to lose them. Many misconceptions are that NBs are the best for this because they can cloak, but guards can see right through your cloak if you are already in combat. This does not apply if you aren't already engaged with them, or haven't yet been caught. Breaking line of sight is the best way to lose a guard, regardless of class or level.
2. Guards are not immune to all forms of CC - certain things like fear and eclipse can protect you from their chains, talons, and shield charge just long enough to get away. You only need to distract them for a few seconds, then run around a small building. Seriously - I never get beaten up by guards anymore. All I do is fear, then turn a corner and run. If they can't see you, they will give up. DKs can use flappy wings to reflect certain things (like chains, which is a spell projectile) to buy a little time to get away too.
3. Pay attention to where you're running. You won't get away if you run straight to another guard. Your best bet is to run into an alley that opens up to another street on the opposite side. Usually by the time you get to the other side, the guard will have lost sight of you and you can then sneak again. Wayrest and Orsinium are loaded with back alleys.. the perfect means of escaping.
4. While leveling, it's a good idea to have the passive to reduce bounties you willingly pay. It's negligible if you've got the coin, but sometimes going back to the refuge is a pain, and it's easier to just pay off a guard and go back to stealing.

That sums it up for now. I will add more later if I think of anything else!

Edit: Thought of one more thing. Avoid stealing things indoors. If you're indoors, like a bank or a guild hall, and you enter combat with a guard, you are guaranteed to die (because you can't interact with doors while in combat). The only exception here would be in certain buildings where there are no guards, such as the guild halls in Riften (quite a few lockboxes in there).

Edit #2: The reason that pickpocketing is more efficient than merely selling items you picked up off of a counter, table, etc. is because you get 1 point towards legerdemain for successfully pickpocketing, and a point for fencing/laundering said item. The same applies for opening lockboxes. There is a trade-off however, in that you can sometimes find junk white items to launder more quickly than you can find a lock box. When your pickpocketing is high enough, you don't even have to try to pickpocket basically - just walk up while sneaking and hit the button (no waiting for it to turn green or anything, it's glorious!)