Legerdemain is Worth Having Points Into

Wollust

Thanks a lot! Appreciate the answers!

Autolycus

Picknflick wrote: »

Hey guys, complete noob ledgerman here. I read through a couple of the abilities of ledgerman a while ago and have never looked at it until this post. I saw someone recently post they could post a tutorial on leveling ledgerman and I was curious if they still could? I don't know where any fences are and if someone could clarify on 'laundering' versus selling to a fence id appreciate it...not sure what laundering is.

Anyway thanks in advance for any advice.

@Picknflick See post #31 in this thread for my leveling guide. There are many other good suggestions as well from others on this thread, so if you don't like mine, check out some of their spots. All that matters is that you get your money and exp at the end of the day. I say it doesn't matter how you go about it, as long as you have fun or at least accomplish what you intended.

I will also gladly clarify the difference between fencing and laundering for you. Both actions are done at the same vendor, called the Fence, located in every Outlaws Refuge in every major city. The Outlaws Refuge is indicated on your map with this symbol:
deltiasgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ESO-Outlaws-Refuge.jpg


Fencing = selling a stolen item to a middle man, who will sell it to a buy for you. In effect, he's paying you for something he can sell to someone else, and it doesn't matter that it's stolen. You always want to fence items of green-quality or higher unless it's something like a motif or recipe. These fetch a far greater value from other players, but cannot be sold to them unless they are laundered, or made "clean".

Laundering = turning a "stolen" item into a "clean" item. You pay the Fence to launder said item, making it "clean" and thus allowing you to sell it to a general merchant. Merchants will not buy stolen items. The money you spend to launder an item comes from your own pocket, however you can recover the full value by selling it back to a general merchant. There is usually a general merchant in the Outlaws Refuge as well.

Hope this helps!

Autolycus

Teflondon75 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

all three thieves are khajiit nightblades that use a 3 pc Nightshade set (2 daggers and a necklace, it increases sneak buffer another 2 meters, works on Npc's, and decreases sneak cost by 22-24% when wearing a 3 pc set, which gives me no sneak cost when wearing 7 pc medium and 4 pts into improved hiding, I can sneak indefinitely when wearing the set, the cost gets so low I actually get stamina when sneaking, its only like 10 or so every 2 sec's but its still not a cost) plus i only steal in 2 towns and know exactly where all the safe boxes are.. sorry I will not name the towns..

haha, yeah it must just be the spot then. I use the three piece as well and have no trouble with NPCs seeing me etc. It's not a problem getting that cash amount it's time, where I am it would be completely impossible to do in less than an hour with running to and fro, loading through doors, the occasional box not there and amateur thieves grabbing some here and there. In well over 1K safeboxes I have NEVER seen a purple either, not even one. I would think it impossible except I've seen people claim purples from safeboxes....@[email protected] The occasional purple drop would change everything in terms of speed.

I've even stopped thieving in town sorta, I still do when I happen to be in town but at least for me, for now, I've found farming Wrothgar chests to be significantly more profitable. I wish I could get what you guys are getting haha, that would be great!

RazielSR wrote: »

What do you mean by "main keep"?

The main keep in Orsinium, Scarp keep.

It's too bad you haven't had much luck finding the more rare and expensive items yet. I've picked up a few purple items along the way, including some daedric & ancient elf motifs (which frankly are only worth 8-15k anymore, but still a nice profit for crouching in the shadows). There is a trick to this actually:

All of the basic 9 motifs for each of the racials (not including imperial) are found virtually everywhere. The Primal and Barbaric motifs will only appear in containers/chests/etc. in whatever your respective Cadwell's Silver zones are, and your Daedric/Ancient Elf motifs are found in Cadwell's Gold zones. For example, a character who starts on DC will find Barbaric and Primal in AD zones, and Daedric and Ancient Elf in EP zones. I'm not sure how this will change when they remove the Silver & Gold requirements - honestly I doubt it will. Imperial motifs can be found anywhere, they are just extremely rare.

Ilsabet

Autolycus wrote: »

The Primal and Barbaric motifs will only appear in containers/chests/etc. in whatever your respective Cadwell's Silver zones are, and your Daedric/Ancient Elf motifs are found in Cadwell's Gold zones.

I found a Daedric motif in Coldharbour before I finished the main quest line. Is that anomalous?

Nice advice here. I wish more of the Legerdemain skills were more useful, although I did dump points into pickpocketing on a whim since I've always been too scared of getting caught to do it. At this point though it's just another way to make some coin when I feel like it. And eventually get the achievement.

@Ouroboros I've never tried to force a lock, but it's my understanding that when you go to open a locked chest, you can choose whether to pick it normally or go for the force. So even with the points put into making forcing easier, you should still be able to pick locks normally when you want the exp and then have the option to force things in the situations the OP described.

Autolycus

Ilsabet wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

The Primal and Barbaric motifs will only appear in containers/chests/etc. in whatever your respective Cadwell's Silver zones are, and your Daedric/Ancient Elf motifs are found in Cadwell's Gold zones.

I found a Daedric motif in Coldharbour before I finished the main quest line. Is that anomalous?

Nice advice here. I wish more of the Legerdemain skills were more useful, although I did dump points into pickpocketing on a whim since I've always been too scared of getting caught to do it. At this point though it's just another way to make some coin when I feel like it. And eventually get the achievement.

@Ouroboros I've never tried to force a lock, but it's my understanding that when you go to open a locked chest, you can choose whether to pick it normally or go for the force. So even with the points put into making forcing easier, you should still be able to pick locks normally when you want the exp and then have the option to force things in the situations the OP described.

As far as I know, yes. I spent a great deal of time trying to find some of the latter motifs while I was in Coldharbour with one of my characters, testing this theory specifically. I have never personally found any of the 4 original epic motifs or Imperial, and your case is actually the first from another person who actually has, at least to my knowledge.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you. I wonder if it's just been poor luck all this time, or anomalous, as you suggest. It could have also been something that was ninja hotfixed or "broken" when something else was implemented. Oh well, niether here nor there. But after extensive testing, I found nothing zero daedric, ancient elf, imperial, barbaric, or primal anywhere prior to Cadwell's Silver. There have been a couple of records of finding Imperial very early on, but those are intended to be everywhere, just incredibly rare. One case was actually on launch of Early Access, back in the before-time, someone created their character and found an Imperial motif in a CH chest during the tutorial.

Ilsabet

I think the motif gods have been smiling on me. I found an Imperial motif in a backpack right inside the door of the Ashen Grip crafting station as I was on my way in to make a new set at level 32. It made my crafting experience much happier that day.

I will say I'm surprised to read that you can get motifs from lockboxes. I thought those only contained the random stolen "treasure" items that you can only fence or launder to hoard in your inventory.

Autolycus

Ilsabet wrote: »

I think the motif gods have been smiling on me. I found an Imperial motif in a backpack right inside the door of the Ashen Grip crafting station as I was on my way in to make a new set at level 32. It made my crafting experience much happier that day.

I will say I'm surprised to read that you can get motifs from lockboxes. I thought those only contained the random stolen "treasure" items that you can only fence or launder to hoard in your inventory.

I have definitely gotten a purple motif from a lockbox before, as well as a purple recipe. So keep looking! Perhaps the motif gods will continue to smile down upon you

Ourorboros

Autolycus wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Don't you lose any XP gain if you force the lock instead of picking it?

That's an interesting question. I haven't tested this myself, but I do think the exp for unlocking it is forgone. Anyone who can confirm this, please do so.

I order to have the full benefit from the force-lock passive, your Ledge will be at least 19/20... so the exp loss is inconsequential with respect to earning exp towards legerdemain. If you are someone who wants to absorb every little bit of experience for leveling and you aren't already at vr16, then you may want to consider forgoing the force lock passive until then. Again, I personally think the exp is negligible, but it is part of the mechanics nonetheless.

The XP from open chests is not inconsequential if you open a lot of chests. Craglorn and Wrothgar are loaded with chests. While the equipment is mostly decon junk, chests are a great source of soul gems and glyphs. I've leveled two enchanters to 50 from mostly decon of chest glyphs. I never pass an area without checking the chests in the area. Regarding the XP, when you open that many chests, it has a significant impact. I keep a skill bar with skills I am leveling and switch to it when opening chests. I have leveled multiple skills from level one to morphed level 4 without ever using the skill just from chests and quest turn ins. I've also gained levels and Champion Points from the 'nudge' of chest XP.

I think the Legerdemain passive would be a great benefit in IC, and WGT, but not worth it to me if it means losing all the XP from all the other chests I open. On the other hand, if I can still get XP from a forced chest, I'm all over this. It's the only reason I haven't already.

Yeah, that's really your choice, and honestly I have no rebuttal for it. If the exp from opening chests is worth it to you, then perhaps forego legerdemain. The thing is though, there is a long list of other ways to get better exp than chests, so the way I see it is that spending time on the chests means foregoing something else, say killing a trash mob or doing part of a quest, which is more valuable than the exp gain from successfully opening a chest.

Frankly, I find this bit of info rather nit-picky, and I suggest you go about getting your exp however you enjoy the most. For players who are already at vr16, the chest exp is for sure irrelevant once legerdemain is where it needs to be to get whatever passive benefits one may want. I won't deny that if you farm a lot of chests, the exp can add up.

I don't open chests for XP, it's just a side benefit I'd rather not waste. Even at v16, it helps to level new skills, so it is not "irrelevant". I also don't want to waste 4 skill points when it is easy to pick locks, even master. Post was fine until you threw in the insult. Did it make you feel better?

Ourorboros

Ilsabet wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

The Primal and Barbaric motifs will only appear in containers/chests/etc. in whatever your respective Cadwell's Silver zones are, and your Daedric/Ancient Elf motifs are found in Cadwell's Gold zones.

@Ouroboros I've never tried to force a lock, but it's my understanding that when you go to open a locked chest, you can choose whether to pick it normally or go for the force. So even with the points put into making forcing easier, you should still be able to pick locks normally when you want the exp and then have the option to force things in the situations the OP described.

Good point. I just need a few more skill points. When I decide to go after the last Legerdemain achievement (for me), laundering million gold of items, I will want the option to force locks.

Autolycus

Ourorboros wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Don't you lose any XP gain if you force the lock instead of picking it?

That's an interesting question. I haven't tested this myself, but I do think the exp for unlocking it is forgone. Anyone who can confirm this, please do so.

I order to have the full benefit from the force-lock passive, your Ledge will be at least 19/20... so the exp loss is inconsequential with respect to earning exp towards legerdemain. If you are someone who wants to absorb every little bit of experience for leveling and you aren't already at vr16, then you may want to consider forgoing the force lock passive until then. Again, I personally think the exp is negligible, but it is part of the mechanics nonetheless.

The XP from open chests is not inconsequential if you open a lot of chests. Craglorn and Wrothgar are loaded with chests. While the equipment is mostly decon junk, chests are a great source of soul gems and glyphs. I've leveled two enchanters to 50 from mostly decon of chest glyphs. I never pass an area without checking the chests in the area. Regarding the XP, when you open that many chests, it has a significant impact. I keep a skill bar with skills I am leveling and switch to it when opening chests. I have leveled multiple skills from level one to morphed level 4 without ever using the skill just from chests and quest turn ins. I've also gained levels and Champion Points from the 'nudge' of chest XP.

I think the Legerdemain passive would be a great benefit in IC, and WGT, but not worth it to me if it means losing all the XP from all the other chests I open. On the other hand, if I can still get XP from a forced chest, I'm all over this. It's the only reason I haven't already.

Yeah, that's really your choice, and honestly I have no rebuttal for it. If the exp from opening chests is worth it to you, then perhaps forego legerdemain. The thing is though, there is a long list of other ways to get better exp than chests, so the way I see it is that spending time on the chests means foregoing something else, say killing a trash mob or doing part of a quest, which is more valuable than the exp gain from successfully opening a chest.

Frankly, I find this bit of info rather nit-picky, and I suggest you go about getting your exp however you enjoy the most. For players who are already at vr16, the chest exp is for sure irrelevant once legerdemain is where it needs to be to get whatever passive benefits one may want. I won't deny that if you farm a lot of chests, the exp can add up.

I don't open chests for XP, it's just a side benefit I'd rather not waste. Even at v16, it helps to level new skills, so it is not "irrelevant". I also don't want to waste 4 skill points when it is easy to pick locks, even master. Post was fine until you threw in the insult. Did it make you feel better?

@Ourorboros It wasn't intended as an insult, nor was I trying to suggest that you were the one nit-picking. Allow me to clarify, please:

I would be nit-picking at you if I told you that using the extra experience from leveling chests is irrelevant. In hindsight, perhaps the use of the word "irrelevant" wasn't the most appropriate, because as you mentioned, the exp will still level skills for even a vr16.

The difference between putting yourself into an exp farm and farming chests is relative, in terms of experience. Sure, you may get more exp if you're looking specifically for an exp grind, but that's not what you said you like to do, and you'll get other valuable items, gold, etc from opening the chest that you wouldn't get from just a straight exp grind. I see absolutely nothing wrong with farming chests, and soaking in all that experience while you're at it. Lockpicking is not difficult, as you mentioned, and personally I enjoy doing it as well.

The whole purpose of the discussion was to encourage the use of legerdemain in other forms of content, and the value of those passives is more noticeable when you're not going for the chests exclusively. This is why I suggested that you, and everyone else for that matter, get your experience via a means that you find most enjoyable. I was not trying to suggest that you forego that experience simply because the force-lock passive has it's own utility.

Apologies for the lack of transparency here. I'm really not one to overtly insult people, although I suppose we all have our moments. I was trying to agree and encourage you to play how you prefer, but poor word choice landed me on the wrong side of the discussion.

Ourorboros

Nestor

Autolycus wrote: »

It could have also been something that was ninja hotfixed or "broken" when something else was implemented. Oh well, niether here nor there. But after extensive testing, I found nothing zero daedric, ancient elf, imperial, barbaric, or primal anywhere prior to Cadwell's Silver.

Something may have changed recently, probably with Orsinium. I currently have an L20 parked in Coldharbor doing Provisioning Writs. A couple of weeks ago I logged on to him when we he was in the bank, and in the first container I looked in, the Wardrobe by the banker, there was an Ancient Elf motif. He found one other one since that time too up there but it was not in the bank. However, prior to Orsinium, I don't think I ever found a Purple motif in Coldharbor.

I also know of people in my guild who have found some of the original 4 rare motifs in Wrothgar at less than Vet ranks.

On an unrelated note, yesterday, I got an Ambrosia recipe fragment on my L10 doing Prov writs in Rivenspire. I even took a screen shot of that showing the L3 Provisioning Container with the Recipe Fragment in there. Of course it was a fragment I already had.

Autolycus

Nestor wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

It could have also been something that was ninja hotfixed or "broken" when something else was implemented. Oh well, niether here nor there. But after extensive testing, I found nothing zero daedric, ancient elf, imperial, barbaric, or primal anywhere prior to Cadwell's Silver.

Something may have changed recently, probably with Orsinium. I currently have an L20 parked in Coldharbor doing Provisioning Writs. A couple of weeks ago I logged on to him when we he was in the bank, and in the first container I looked in, the Wardrobe by the banker, there was an Ancient Elf motif. He found one other one since that time too up there but it was not in the bank. However, prior to Orsinium, I don't think I ever found a Purple writ in Coldharbor.

I also know of people in my guild who have found some of the original 4 rare motifs in Wrothgar at less than Vet ranks.

On an unrelated note, yesterday, I got an Ambrosia recipe fragment on my L10 doing Prov writs in Rivenspire. I even took a screen shot of that showing the L3 Provisioning Container with the Recipe Fragment in there. Of course it was a fragment I already had.

Ah this is good to know! Perhaps the release of Orsinium did make these available in other zones. I'd not heard anything until now about this being the case, and I didn't see it in any of the patch notes either. I am prone to miss things from time to time though, and it was prior to Orsinium that I tested the drops. It doesn't bother me at all to be wrong - I'd prefer that those motifs be available to everyone now anyway. It was a different case back in the day when those were the high-end motifs, the most desirable - the hardest to get. But now we have so many more options, and frankly people are less likely to go out of their way for one of the original 4, than say something like Xyvkin, Glass, or Ancient Orc.

While we're at it, just a couple of days ago I found a Daedric motif in the backpacks at the entry to vWGT (just inside the door, not in the sewers). I presume this means that the rest of IC follows the same loot table, though I have yet to find one of those motifs in another backpack or chest in the sewers or the district. Surely someone has.

NBrookus

Autolycus wrote: »

All of the basic 9 motifs for each of the racials (not including imperial) are found virtually everywhere. The Primal and Barbaric motifs will only appear in containers/chests/etc. in whatever your respective Cadwell's Silver zones are, and your Daedric/Ancient Elf motifs are found in Cadwell's Gold zones.

Ancient Elf also drops in Orsinium and Craglorn. I got two today, one in a backpack in Craglorn and the other as a drop in Rkindaleft. (When what I wanted was an Ancient Orc chapter!) I've also had a couple of Ancient Elf drop in regular containers in Wrothgar.