You see your Sorcerer DD hard casting frags

MrGigglypants · January 2016

Sometimes it's an accident too. Like molag kena proc and you think frag procs but it really didnt. Your just like crap better to let it go off than cancel it though

Islyn · January 2016

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Sometimes it's an accident too. Like molag kena proc and you think frag procs but it really didnt. Your just like crap better to let it go off than cancel it though

Molag kena: Whole upper body electric blue, looks similar-ish to the Speed of Moving Fast sorc thing (I forgot the name, not Streak), frag proc is PURPLE (not blue) hands and you can even see mini frags in the purple glow, depending on settings....

Derra · January 2016

Rylana wrote: »

I look at you out of the corner of my eye and dare you to tell me to stop.

Kick me from the group? Good luck finding someone outside of a premade die hard group doing as much damage as I was, your loss.

I then laugh at people saying they will waste their stam bashing me in some kind of pseudo challenge to kill me in PvP.

I then laugh at people saying they will waste their stam trying to defensive posture me in PvP.

I then laugh at everyone talking about waiting for a proc for 20 percent more damage at lower cost... when during all that time generating a proc, they arent really doing anything that does significant damage anyway. Degeneration? lol. Crushing shock? lol. curse? lol.

When....

every 1.5 seconds...

20k 20k 20k 20k 20k 20k 20k

And I never run out of juice. I only have to hit one button. I have it easy. Just like a wrecking blow spammer.

Tell me again how to play.

I mean, I COULD throw on overload, but thats just overkill by this point. then its 30k 30k 30k 30k 30k 30k

So tell me more about attack weaving 4k crushing shocks with ~10k medium/heavies. top fricken kek. Animation cancel weaves are for plebs.

And no, this post is not sarcasm. I legit despise this hard cast taboo, because the people that perpetuate it are utter morons. A hard cast sorc can do over 15k DPS just pushing one button, you DPS meter junkies really need to get out more. The amount of mouse acrobatics with "rotations" you try to persuade/shame players into using, for what really amounts oftentimes to negligible increases (and usually results in actually LOWER damage numbers), is ridiculous.

Destro for AoE trash killing, throw on power surge + frags with dual wield, and maybe a damage shield if you do so much damn damage you end up pulling aggro. gg, sorc isnt some uber complex thing to play. PROTIP - the more sorc abilities on your bar the more damage you do. Check the passives once. Hell if you really want to be hardcore, throw in an entropy between every hardcast just to empower every one of them, you might even get a proc frag in between hardcasts.

Sorc is hard. -eyeroll-

Edit to add: I do 15-20k DPS sustain single without overload as a sorc using dual wield and sorc abilities. if i pop overload I go into 25-30k territory. If i even use a destro staff (oftentimes I run resto on the backbar just cause i hate switching gear around) the only change is ill swap out healing ward for ele ring because sorcs lack a spammable lowcost non-synergy dependent aoe. The last thing I need is single target help in any form.

A proper CS build will do about 20 to 25k singletarget stationary with ~5k-7k dps loss on moving encounters.
It has the added benefit of doing 25% more overload dmg than your build - which comes in handy at just about every boss fight.

The problem is most people hardcasting frags do not have a well thoughtout build. It can work but it indicates a terrible build in 98% of cases.

Edit: I´ve got a nice petbuild spamming CF too that puts me at about 22k sustained with the aoe morph (bc no bar space). The problem is just the lack of good ultimates outside of attro.

Moonshadow66 · January 2016

daemonios wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

If only I knew what "hard casting" means.. I guess it's a language issue again.
Maybe I hard cast it, maybe not; I just use it whenever I feel it's the best moment, that's all.

@Moonshadow66 , "hard casting" I'm guessing means casting Crystal Shard/Frag for the full cast time (1.5 seconds), instead of waiting for it's "instant cast" proc when your hands glow purple (from casting other spells).

Ooooh, ok, thank you so much for the explanation, I had no idea! Well, so I guess I'm a hard-caster lol
The thing is that I didn't even know that you can get the instant-cast chance from casting other spells as well, so I just cast it until it becomes an insta-cast every once in a while. Good to know, thanks again

@Moonshadow66 Indeed! In fact, casting OTHER spells is the only way to get the instant cast to proc! I didn't figure that out for a few months, but it make sense! Would be a bit too OP if it could proc the instant cast by casting itself!

@GhostwalkerLD Today I tried checking the hands for a purple glow, but I didn't see a thing. This character is using Inner Light as well, so there's always some glow or "smoke" around everything in that area. I guess it's best to see in 1st person then? Because I'm in 3rd and won't go back to 1st. I'm also zoomed out about a mile, at least most of the time, so it's really hard to tell if the hands are a tad more purple than before or not.. as a matter of fact, I could not tell at all.

What I also don't get is why nowhere in the skill description of CF does it tell the player that other skills/spells are required for this morph to work; how on earth am I supposed to know this (except for reading it here)? And why would it be OP if it's triggered by (hard-) casting CF?

For my taste, there's too much stuff in the game that is nowhere explained to the player how it actually works. I don't know how often other players (friends) ask me things about how "this" or "that" works and all that, which I only can tell them just because I'm reading the forum(s). Imo, the forum shouldn't be required to read just to get ALL infos about in-game functions.

Anyways, thanks again for your help, much appreciated nonetheless

Usually, everything that "procs" in this game has a visual and audio cure. For frags there's the glowing hands but also a very distinctive sound. It's tricky to notice all the cues in fight because of all the mess, especially visual cues when you have all kinds of light effects and things proccing, but in any case I never fight in 1st person perspective - you lose all perception of your surroundings, AoE on the ground, etc. Strongly advise against it.

Yeah, that's why I went in 3rd person during levelling my 2nd character back then (which is now my "main^^).
Hm, I think I know now what sound you mean, I even remember now that it shows up when I didn't even use CF before, but I wasn't sure where it comes from. But, my problem now is, that during the last weeks or even months, I often play completely without sound/headphones for different reasons, so waiting for the CF-sound is no option for me at the moment.
I've just seen there's an addon that shows the insta-cast chance on-screen, but for this I'd have to leave the skill bar constantly visible, which I don't want, tbh.. I wish ZOS would add some kind of info/button/whatever to let us know such things without addons.

Edit: a big thanks to you as well, you guys are really helpful :-)

xellink · January 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What you are doing is like criticizing a ski instructor from stopping a new skier who forgot their poles by pointing out that its possible and sometimes better to ski without them if you know what you are doing.

isnt that snowboarding? pretty sure hard still beats any templar trying to dps.

it is good to teach players how to make use of the insta-cast proc but a lot of players in eso are not extremely familiar with squeezing out 100% efficiency. most people are not even concerned about efficiency as long as they manage to complete the quest or dungeon. this is due to a large playerbase of single player rpgers who are used to being overpowered.

the player base will improve but it will take time. when wow first started, it was filled with newbs for at least 3-4 years.

Flameheart · January 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

a1x23 wrote: »

As a sorc DPS, i gotta say hard casting frags happens accidentally all the time. Now if you see them repeatedly hard casting thats a different issue

This. Actually AUI should gimme a message crossover my screen for a frag proc, but it doesn't work for me, although the message is enabled in the addon settings. So I need to notice that frag proc buff in my buff bars. In 99% of all times I cast it instant, but it might happen once in a while that it is hard cast.

It works for me, i had to adjust it a few times to get it to show

The adjustment is a check box. What else have you adjusted ?

Tan9oSuccka · January 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I had a Duel Wield tank that didn't know aggro was. He eventually decided my heals were crap and quit the group.

In these situations, you simply check your patience reserves, and see if you have it in you to help a new player. If you kick him, hes just going to be hard casting in someone else's group. Sometimes all it takes is a few comments if you are feeling nice to steer someone on to the right direction. Other times you will get a "Don't Tell me how to play my character" type of response and there's nothing you can do.

In PvP, there is always one person in every siege that is on a Fire ballista shooting straight at the postern door. I whispered them and told them it did no damage and they should aim for the wall next to the door. This has worked 2/3 times.

TL;DR: Help new players or don't run in pugs.

Something similar happened to a couple of guildmates of mine. They had a tank that would go in and spam steel tornado and then not have enough stamina to actually do any tanking.

I've seen this wayyyyy too much as well from the group finder "Tank".

I started carrying sword and board in my inventory on my Nightblade for those special occasions.

sirrmattus · January 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

What do you do?

if boss fight. i dont care. if aoe. i rage quit

Takes-No-Prisoner · January 2016

Rylana wrote: »

When....

every 1.5 seconds...

\

/

I'm imagining the troll hitting the hunter to be your frags atm

Zerok · January 2016

What level was he?

Before getting Impulse and Lightning Splash on my sorc, I was using Crystal Blast to hit multiple targets at once.

Contrary to the other morph, Crystal Blast has to be hard cast each time...

runagate · January 2016

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

If only I knew what "hard casting" means.. I guess it's a language issue again.
Maybe I hard cast it, maybe not; I just use it whenever I feel it's the best moment, that's all.

@Moonshadow66 , "hard casting" I'm guessing means casting Crystal Shard/Frag for the full cast time (1.5 seconds), instead of waiting for it's "instant cast" proc when your hands glow purple (from casting other spells).

Ooooh, ok, thank you so much for the explanation, I had no idea! Well, so I guess I'm a hard-caster lol
The thing is that I didn't even know that you can get the instant-cast chance from casting other spells as well, so I just cast it until it becomes an insta-cast every once in a while. Good to know, thanks again

@Moonshadow66 Indeed! In fact, casting OTHER spells is the only way to get the instant cast to proc! I didn't figure that out for a few months, but it make sense! Would be a bit too OP if it could proc the instant cast by casting itself!

@Moodshadow66: Having never played a magicka sorc (come to think of it the only one I haven't played) I just wanted to let you know that I get the impression that most people use an add-on that lets them know when their insta cast is ready, rather than waiting to see if their hands glow purple. Come to think of it I should check to see if there's one for the arrow from Relentless Focus. I never realized until now that I just listen for it, but that doesn't work well in a 12 person Trial's chaos nor in PvP.

willymchilybily · January 2016

I leave them to it, i never use to but now....they just dont want to know.

The biggest fault with all PS4 player DPS is people have all these damage skills on there bars, you can only use one skill at a time, so max DPS is dots+skill spam. which skill spam is often cost/damage ratio. and then include is it genning ultimate for me, can i weave or animation cancel with it. but without addons and DPs meters people will be lucky to pull 15k dps on the PS4. no way to optomise. and instead try to use 5 different dps skills in a rotation. horrid. Nvm.

on a side note:
All this talk of glowing purple hands!? does no one play with the sound on?

when im zoomed out to max with crit surge and possibly lightening form on and molag kena procs and i look like a frick'n disco ball. Somehow I'm meant to see glowing purple hands?

or i could just go off the sound, that unique sound that tells me my frags just procc'd. without me even taking my eyes off whats going on around me...how do you even PvP if you're relying on visuals....oh wait nvm pc master race has addons.

AhPook_Is_Here · January 2016

In some sorcs defense the graphic glitches a lot showing you still have a instant cast ready but you don't.

Anhedonie · January 2016

"roll a magplar, dude."

daemonios · January 2016

willymchilybily wrote: »

I leave them to it, i never use to but now....they just dont want to know.

The biggest fault with all PS4 player DPS is people have all these damage skills on there bars, you can only use one skill at a time, so max DPS is dots+skill spam. which skill spam is often cost/damage ratio. and then include is it genning ultimate for me, can i weave or animation cancel with it. but without addons and DPs meters people will be lucky to pull 15k dps on the PS4. no way to optomise. and instead try to use 5 different dps skills in a rotation. horrid. Nvm.

on a side note:
All this talk of glowing purple hands!? does no one play with the sound on?

when im zoomed out to max with crit surge and possibly lightening form on and molag kena procs and i look like a frick'n disco ball. Somehow I'm meant to see glowing purple hands?

or i could just go off the sound, that unique sound that tells me my frags just procc'd. without me even taking my eyes off whats going on around me...how do you even PvP if you're relying on visuals....oh wait nvm pc master race has addons.

Unless you very carefully review your sound settings, frags procs can be lost in the noise. Skills like proximity detonation for instance go off extremely loudly. It's even more tricky to hear it if you're on teamspeak. My strategy: look for the hands, try to hear the proc... and press "2" whenever FTC tells me to

Septimus_Magna · January 2016

Praeficere wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lol, you need regen for pve dps?

Besides that you're completely missing the point by 'countering' my argument.

Keep on hard-casting those cfrags!

To be fair, you would need regen without resource aid from another in your group.

Im running with 900 magicka regen and dont have any sustain issues, also without Elemental Drain from the healer.

Just cast Harness Magicka before Hardened Ward and you shouldnt run out of magicka.

Mojmir · January 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

a1x23 wrote: »

As a sorc DPS, i gotta say hard casting frags happens accidentally all the time. Now if you see them repeatedly hard casting thats a different issue

This. Actually AUI should gimme a message crossover my screen for a frag proc, but it doesn't work for me, although the message is enabled in the addon settings. So I need to notice that frag proc buff in my buff bars. In 99% of all times I cast it instant, but it might happen once in a while that it is hard cast.

It works for me, i had to adjust it a few times to get it to show

The adjustment is a check box. What else have you adjusted ?

meaning i had to turn the addon off and and back on a few times. and its not always gonna show. you can also try other addons, FTC,srendarr,buff tracker some might also produce better results

failkiwib16_ESO · January 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Haha, once I met a sorc healer that hardcasted frags instead of healing When asked, what the hell is going on, he replied that he wanted to practice dpsing.

@KoshkaMurka that is actually pretty cute

any idea of what happened to him since?

I have to agree with @Rylana, hardcasting crystal shards/ blasts is not bad.

I wish 9/10 of the sorcerers I have lately pugged dungeons with would do that, instead of being busy jumping & running around for nothing, use execute to proc crystal frags when boss is at full health, casting healing ward and streaking through mobs and bosses once every 2min, when they join a team as Damage Dealers.

10k-20k damage is still 10k-20k damage... it's better than healing ward, 3 x execute skill to proc a 1 frag, followed by a streak over the edges at Bogdan.

MrDerrikk · January 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lol, you need regen for pve dps?

Besides that you're completely missing the point by 'countering' my argument.

Keep on hard-casting those cfrags!

To be fair, you would need regen without resource aid from another in your group.

Im running with 900 magicka regen and dont have any sustain issues, also without Elemental Drain from the healer.

Just cast Harness Magicka before Hardened Ward and you shouldnt run out of magicka.

This only works in a fight with magic projectiles sadly, otherwise I'd be rocking it on my DK more often.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Haha, once I met a sorc healer that hardcasted frags instead of healing When asked, what the hell is going on, he replied that he wanted to practice dpsing.

@KoshkaMurka that is actually pretty cute any idea of what happened to him since?

I have to agree with @Rylana, hardcasting crystal shards/ blasts is not bad.

I wish 9/10 of the sorcerers I have lately pugged dungeons with would do that, instead of being busy jumping & running around for nothing, use execute to proc crystal frags when boss is at full health, casting healing ward and streaking through mobs and bosses once every 2min, when they join a team as Damage Dealers.

10k-20k damage is still 10k-20k damage... it's better than healing ward, 3 x execute skill to proc a 1 frag, followed by a streak over the edges at Bogdan.

No idea

We just finished a pledge, I told him "thanks for the run, cya!" and that's it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

I got yelled at in a pug group on my sorc for having 16.8k health a few days ago. They were offering food and build advice. It was really very sweet. The mood changed a little after I kena/overloaded the first boss while the healer and other DPS wiped. Haha.

Also, the worst thing ever is when you go to cast your frag proc and it hard casts. I am not a noob, I am not a noob...

XANTITHESISX · January 2016

jim_mau wrote: »

Ive played MMOs on and off a while, being bad at first in every game and then L2P same as ESO, im still at the L2P phase.

Now... ive seen some terribad dudes, mostly guild wise this is not an issue when DPS numbers simply make him ask what hes doing wrong and then comes advice..

but PUGs... maybe wipe a couple times and then offer to lead and take EVERYONE and hand out instructions, not just the hard caster... people do not take criticism well from strangers and better if everyone gets a few words.. no one likes to get singled out for being bad...

On a personal note, life and *** doesnt let me get too involved in guild activities so i dont know my dungeons yet, but a quick review of mechanics or things to look out for... and im good...

its not about L2P its more about L2People

Well said...

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The worst thing is getting called a noob for using DW on your buff/Overload bar, all you can do is facepalm and link your 25k+ dps at the end of the fight.

CavalierPrime wrote: »

Sorry Ive never rolled a Sorc. Why is hard casting Frags bad as opposed to exiling a blue card and losing 1 life to pay for it?

20% less dmg, 50% higher cost and a cast time of 1 second (which feels more like 1,5-2 seconds).

The underlaying issue is that the sorc in question doesnt understand his class if he's hard-casting cfrags so his dps will be low and he will probably die easily.

5x Kags/Julianos, 2x torugs, 3x willpower, Kena/Bloodspawn 4x divines 3xinfused (prismatics on infused, magicka on others) - 40k Magicka. 2k recovery, 22k health, Dual wield swords, atro mundus, 3500 spell damage, 501 champs will 75/75 split on theurm and elfborn

Literally I need 3 total abilities on my bar to counter your whole argument, and I will do both 15k-25k DPS and not die a single time.

Frag/HardenedWard with Overload ultimate. And all i will do is spam overload light attacks and hardcast frags (ill throw in a light attack on my offbar for ultigen or put ele ring for trash clearing here and there).

gg

Lol, you need regen for pve dps?

Besides that you're completely missing the point by 'countering' my argument.

Keep on hard-casting those cfrags!

Youre missing the point. I am a pvper. That is my PvP suit. I dont need fancy smancy elitist uberyoutube herpaderp to match numbers with durr pve'ers.

A PvP suit... able to do just as well as a PvE copypastafromdeltiaswebsite thinking the end all be all of the game is anim cancelling.

I will keep hardcasting, because the real jokes on you =D

But please, PLEASE, keep propagating the hilarious notion that its "bad."

I take out pro pvpers every damn day with hardcasts because they do over 10k pvp damage. Its kinda funny how that works out. Spend all your stam dodging or casting def posture, im not even at 90 percent resources yet. And the frag goes on.

Great job hijacking a thread for this same pedantic argument lol. It's highly unlikely (notice I didn't say impossible) that some random PUG hard casting C-Frags is going to be min/maxed enough that they are better off hard casting then actually learning what it means when their hands turn purple. It's generally better (note the lack of an absolute) for a new sorcerer (which is the type we are are talking about this thread) to learn how to use the crystal fragments morph for instant procs before they start figuring out when it is better to hardcast.

What you are doing is like criticizing a ski instructor from stopping a new skier who forgot their poles by pointing out that its possible and sometimes better to ski without them if you know what you are doing.

Every time this topic comes up, you jump to point out that hard casting isn't ALWAYS something you should avoid. Congratulations. You are arguing for an exception to an absolute. Which is one of the easiest things to do rhetorically. I've been careful to avoid any further absolutes in this response to try and prevent any further pettifogging.

Here: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: There is a time and a place for everything, even hard-casting C-frags. Turn Turn Turn. Thank you Rylana for this mind-blowing revelation.

Now back to the topic of how we tactfully teach new players not to hard cast frags.

Literally the most well written rebuttal I have ever seen in an ESO thread.

catalyst10e · January 2016

I was in PVP once, when the server was kinda packed, in IC arena just fighting whatever got in front of me. Since the server was packed, animations start to disappear, and I cannot see when my C frag procs, So you play Frag roulette, and just occasionally press the button to see if it hard casts it or not. Someone who was trying to order around randoms got ganked from behind, and I tried to save him in the form of a proced frag to knock down the NB, but instead it got hard cast, and he died while casting. He then proceeded to yell at me, follow me around the arena yelling, all over hard casting... using profanity and name-calling and such. It's still towards the top of my list, as one of the worst player interactions I've ever had.

Lets all learn from this...
1) If you want to be friendly and mention they could get higher DPS if they wait to proc their frag, feel free.
2) Don't just kick them from your group, especially without telling them why. If they're doing their job of hitting the enemy with high damage and it's not really effecting anyone else, you worry about YOUR job, and I'll worry about mine. (does not apply if they're obivously standing in red, becomming a liability, constantly needing heals/revive, or hard casting next to the tank.)
3) Wheaton's Law
4) There could be other factors at work, sometimes I need to just hard-cast frag spam to kill someone, because tangled webs till it procs isnt doing the job. (That knock-down tho)

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Zerok wrote: »

What level was he?

Before getting Impulse and Lightning Splash on my sorc, I was using Crystal Blast to hit multiple targets at once.

Contrary to the other morph, Crystal Blast has to be hard cast each time...

Before I learned how to ride a bike I used training wheels....