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Dark Cloak Suggestions
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've played a magicka NB from day 1 through AR50, and have always loved cloak. The reason it is so powerful is that PEOPLE DON'T BOTHER TO THINK ABOUT COUNTERING IT.
How many of you run Radiant Magelight on a bar while travelling between keeps? There are outfitter addons to swap bars with the touch of a button that make it easy.
How many of you drop a caltrops defensively when you stop moving and will stay in one place for a while?
How many of you see a NB cloak and hit bombard or steel tornado (or any other AoE) to bring them out?
Since I started playing my stam DK with bombard on one bar and caltrops on the other, very few NBs have escaped from me. If they're moving away from me, a bombard snares and reveals them. If they're doing the dodge in and out to keep 100% crit from disguise, a caltrops makes it impossible for them to succeed. If my group stops moving and stacks, unless we're stealthing, my caltrops is always centred on us or the primary ingress point to us for defensive purposes.
I dare say that people who complain about cloak simply don't bother to use or arrange for someone close to them (in group) to use one of the MANY counters to it.
I pretty much do all of these things and cloak is still a joke.
The biggest problem for me with the skill is not the huge benefits youre getting when you successfully cloak - its how easy theyve allowed players to use it. It acts as a disjoint/immunity when activated, which is the biggest/main problem I have with this skill. You can throw caltrops on top of a NB, be standing next to him with lightning armor which will/should reveal him while a meteor is sailing down. And then they press cloak at the right time - despite standing in everything that breaks cloak, they will disjoint this, or a WB - despite using the exact things that should counter this.
If you use cloak inside caltrops, you should never go invis, you should never gain a moment to disjoint attacks. The real problem is ZOS doesnt even know how to program this logic properly to make this skill work this way. Its functioned so poorly in the past that they just give you this window when you pop it to make it actually work.
If you can successfully evade your enemy, you should be able to hide. Getting 'dodged' messages when youre hitting people that just went into cloak is absolutely stupid.4 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm all for decreased magicka regen for the 3 seconds that I'm in cloak if magicka sorcs get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Hardened Ward, templars get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casing Breath of Life, and magicka DK gets decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Dragon's Bl....nevermind, sorry DKs. Cloak is an unreliable skill with abundant counters, yet it must mitigate as much damage for mageblades as Hardened Ward does for magicka sorcs, BoL for templars, etc etc.
You're talking about gimping mageblade's primary defensive mechanism.
If you're so frustrated with cloak that you believe these changes are warranted, then you're a bad player. Plain and simple.
Worry about problems that actually exist, like how much more damage stamina is doing compared to magicka.
...
So, a skill that acts like a magicka based dodge roll, that adds max health for being slotted, that procs major resist buffs on cast, that purges up to 4 dots, that clears tab targeting and can be combined with heals from other NB skills must be as powerful as breath of life or hardened ward?
You forgot the part where cloak doesn't move you ever and doesn't provide invisibility against good players.
[Edited to remove bait content]
Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on January 19, 2016 9:42PM3 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For the nightblades who are still whining about cloak being "broken", it's not. Nightblade was the first class I played, starting in beta, and cloak had lots of issues back then, but it has been working as intended for a while. Most of the complaints come from people who don't understand what is supposed to break you out of cloak.
As far as it being too strong, I have no issue dealing with cloak when playing on a stam build, since caltrops and steel tornado have such a huge aoe to break it. Magicka aoes are so small that it's really hard to pull a NB out of cloak. Would like to see a detect pot buff or a buff to revealing flare so that it's actually worth slotting outside of one niche purpose.
And I'd rather they get rid of the stupid cost stacking, regen cancelling, but if they're going to keep those on streak, dodge and block, they should probably add something to cloak for balance too.
The only thing I will definitely say is broken regarding cloak, and a huge pain in the ass, is dark flare.
That isn't a ground targeted AoE, its much like meteor. You can cloak meteor, but if its dark flare you just eat the 8k+ damage.
A meh gad, so annoying!
In the grand scheme of things, though, this is the least of our worries. 
It's funny to see all the typical nightblades who run one shot build defending their precious cloak. In the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that at least 70% of the player base run a nightblade nowadays and it says it all. That percentage probably goes up to 90% in sewers. Cloak should be an ultimate that works like Overload. Stealth should not be a thing unless you are close to objects. Put Mark Target in the Alliance War or Bow tree line.
Frozn, I'm the main person defending cloak in this thread, and I run a 3k unbuffed regen, 3400 buffed weapon damage build on a stamblade Breton. I itemize for sustain and mobility -- I seldom one shot anyone. No good nightblade runs a one shot cheese build bro, and only a player who drops his guard will ever die to a one shot cheese build.
Your suggestions show how emotionally jaded and out of touch you are with this game.Edited by KenaPKK on January 19, 2016 6:32PM2 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭/darkcloak
Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||8 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm all for decreased magicka regen for the 3 seconds that I'm in cloak if magicka sorcs get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Hardened Ward, templars get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casing Breath of Life, and magicka DK gets decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Dragon's Bl....nevermind, sorry DKs. Cloak is an unreliable skill with abundant counters, yet it must mitigate as much damage for mageblades as Hardened Ward does for magicka sorcs, BoL for templars, etc etc.
You're talking about gimping mageblade's primary defensive mechanism.
If you're so frustrated with cloak that you believe these changes are warranted, then you're a bad player. Plain and simple.
Worry about problems that actually exist, like how much more damage stamina is doing compared to magicka.
...
So, a skill that acts like a magicka based dodge roll, that adds max health for being slotted, that procs major resist buffs on cast, that purges up to 4 dots, that clears tab targeting and can be combined with heals from other NB skills must be as powerful as breath of life or hardened ward?
You forgot the part where cloak doesn't move you ever and doesn't provide invisibility against good players.
..
I kind of find it interesting, that despite all the things cloak does, even when the invisibility fails, that the response is "it doesn't move you and good players always have radiant/detect pots/caltrops/excess resources for aoes, ready." Not a "the other classes don't have nearly as many defining skills that make playing the class unique and interesting without having some sort of restraint" or any acknowledgment that nightblades have more skills than cloak.
Want mobility? NB's have 3 ways to get major move speed and have the longest range teleport in game, and while invisible you aren't rooted, use wasd to move at 100% speed, 125% with concealed weapon (5% slower than sprint speed). Sorry, but as long as nightblades are stuck in the mindset that "everyone else just has to l2p" and not address the fact that they are in the best position as a class in the game in regards to both skills and passives than I don't think any productive conversation can come from it.4 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm all for decreased magicka regen for the 3 seconds that I'm in cloak if magicka sorcs get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Hardened Ward, templars get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casing Breath of Life, and magicka DK gets decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Dragon's Bl....nevermind, sorry DKs. Cloak is an unreliable skill with abundant counters, yet it must mitigate as much damage for mageblades as Hardened Ward does for magicka sorcs, BoL for templars, etc etc.
You're talking about gimping mageblade's primary defensive mechanism.
If you're so frustrated with cloak that you believe these changes are warranted, then you're a bad player. Plain and simple.
Worry about problems that actually exist, like how much more damage stamina is doing compared to magicka.
...
So, a skill that acts like a magicka based dodge roll, that adds max health for being slotted, that procs major resist buffs on cast, that purges up to 4 dots, that clears tab targeting and can be combined with heals from other NB skills must be as powerful as breath of life or hardened ward?
You forgot the part where cloak doesn't move you ever and doesn't provide invisibility against good players.
..
I kind of find it interesting, that despite all the things cloak does, even when the invisibility fails, that the response is "it doesn't move you and good players always have radiant/detect pots/caltrops/excess resources for aoes, ready." Not a "the other classes don't have nearly as many defining skills that make playing the class unique and interesting without having some sort of restraint" or any acknowledgment that nightblades have more skills than cloak.
Want mobility? NB's have 3 ways to get major move speed and have the longest range teleport in game, and while invisible you aren't rooted, use wasd to move at 100% speed, 125% with concealed weapon (5% slower than sprint speed). Sorry, but as long as nightblades are stuck in the mindset that "everyone else just has to l2p" and not address the fact that they are in the best position as a class in the game in regards to both skills and passives than I don't think any productive conversation can come from it.
We are not oblivious. We just want other classes buffed instead of repeated nerfs to anything that's working well. Instead of playing the victim and demanding equalizing nerfs for anything that annoys or inconveniences you, instead call for buffs to other classes or skill lines.
As for NB abilities, cloak does not give us immunity from snares and roots. You'll rarely use cloak and get the "best case" use out of it, being 2.9 seconds of invisibility with no lingering ccs. When you do, the enemy messed up. Nightblades are squishy and immobile (with the exception of shade, which I'll address) by design. You have to stop being so scared of them. Jump on their face and lock them down. A nightblade will panic when you get in his face, then scurry to create distance. I promise.
As for shade being the longest range teleport, yes this is true, and it's one of my favorite abilities in the game. However, it requires lots of setup and a little carelessness on your opponent's part to pull off as an escape since you have to move away from the shade and then only get one poof. This skill is only really useful when you're attempting to 1vX a group of people around structure or rock terrain. Streak is much stronger as an escape overall.
TLDR: [snip] Call for buffs to other stuff instead of nerfs to a class that, as you described, is unique and interesting and exciting and working well.
[Edited to remove inappropriate content]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on January 19, 2016 9:38PM4 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm all for decreased magicka regen for the 3 seconds that I'm in cloak if magicka sorcs get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Hardened Ward, templars get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casing Breath of Life, and magicka DK gets decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Dragon's Bl....nevermind, sorry DKs. Cloak is an unreliable skill with abundant counters, yet it must mitigate as much damage for mageblades as Hardened Ward does for magicka sorcs, BoL for templars, etc etc.
You're talking about gimping mageblade's primary defensive mechanism.
If you're so frustrated with cloak that you believe these changes are warranted, then you're a bad player. Plain and simple.
Worry about problems that actually exist, like how much more damage stamina is doing compared to magicka.
...
So, a skill that acts like a magicka based dodge roll, that adds max health for being slotted, that procs major resist buffs on cast, that purges up to 4 dots, that clears tab targeting and can be combined with heals from other NB skills must be as powerful as breath of life or hardened ward?
You forgot the part where cloak doesn't move you ever and doesn't provide invisibility against good players.
..
I kind of find it interesting, that despite all the things cloak does, even when the invisibility fails, that the response is "it doesn't move you and good players always have radiant/detect pots/caltrops/excess resources for aoes, ready." Not a "the other classes don't have nearly as many defining skills that make playing the class unique and interesting without having some sort of restraint" or any acknowledgment that nightblades have more skills than cloak.
Want mobility? NB's have 3 ways to get major move speed and have the longest range teleport in game, and while invisible you aren't rooted, use wasd to move at 100% speed, 125% with concealed weapon (5% slower than sprint speed). Sorry, but as long as nightblades are stuck in the mindset that "everyone else just has to l2p" and not address the fact that they are in the best position as a class in the game in regards to both skills and passives than I don't think any productive conversation can come from it.
These things all sound good on paper, but don't work so well in application. @KenaPKK is one of the best magicka NB in this game for NA, he isn't some idiot preaching L2P for no reason.
The way you cast shade combined with the distance limitation and length of time it remains active, makes it very limited in effectiveness. It's downright stupid to use this in a 1v1, taking precious time off target to mess around juking. It's works decent to troll people, especially in a resource tower, but really no good NB uses this seriously. This is one of those skills that just sounds so good, but doesn't work as well. If your goal is to just stay hidden and not actually try to fight, you can troll decent with it. Until people get wise and you get locked and focused. You need a target and then it drops at your feet, meaning you need to get away from snares and gap closers and other stuff, only to teleport back to that same spot. It just doesn't work as well as many people think.
Templar using his class heals plus expedition from bow, works better than cripple or double-take alone. Magicka NB is too squishy to be outside of cloak for long, even with good gear. All it takes is one detect pot or someone running RM and getting locked and focused, and you're snared and rooted and healing ward spamming until you die. Once you're in this position you can't use shadow image reliably, only hope you can get a potion and a soul tether which may or may not save you anyway.
Once you get gap closed, many things will break cloak. Everything from DoTs like embers to entropy to burning light to flare, to Axe bleeds and gap closers. Blade cloak and boundless storm will pull you out for a split second, allowing someone to use another ability to keep you from cloaking. You can pull people from cloak by pressuring them with puncture, casting an AoE or throwing caltrops.
If I'm in a 2vx or a small group, magicka NB are often our priority targets simply for being so easy to kill. Right behind or in front of Templars. I challenge anyone to prove me otherwise with a magicka NB.Edited by OdinForge on January 19, 2016 8:21PMThe Age of Wrobel.3 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭These things all sound good on paper, but don't work so well in application. @KenaPKK is one of the best magicka NB in this game for NA, he isn't some idiot preaching L2P for no reason.
dawww
If I'm in a 2vx or a small group, magicka NB are often our priority targets simply for being so easy to kill. Right behind or in front of Templars. I challenge anyone to prove me otherwise with a magicka NB.
So true...
I've actually decided to spec FRIGHT into a heavy armor magicka PvP super tank in an attempt to address this very frustration of mine. My goal is to deal just enough damage to where the other group needs to focus me while still being impossible to kill. I'll let you know how it turns out!
So in other words, I'm giving up on PvP 1vXing entirely on magicka nightblade... This patch is just too brutal for that. I'll be playing much more on Cir'ana going forward, sadly...I've played a magicka NB from day 1 through AR50, and have always loved cloak. The reason it is so powerful is that PEOPLE DON'T BOTHER TO THINK ABOUT COUNTERING IT.
How many of you run Radiant Magelight on a bar while travelling between keeps? There are outfitter addons to swap bars with the touch of a button that make it easy.
How many of you drop a caltrops defensively when you stop moving and will stay in one place for a while?
How many of you see a NB cloak and hit bombard or steel tornado (or any other AoE) to bring them out?
Since I started playing my stam DK with bombard on one bar and caltrops on the other, very few NBs have escaped from me. If they're moving away from me, a bombard snares and reveals them. If they're doing the dodge in and out to keep 100% crit from disguise, a caltrops makes it impossible for them to succeed. If my group stops moving and stacks, unless we're stealthing, my caltrops is always centred on us or the primary ingress point to us for defensive purposes.
I dare say that people who complain about cloak simply don't bother to use or arrange for someone close to them (in group) to use one of the MANY counters to it.
I pretty much do all of these things and cloak is still a joke.
The biggest problem for me with the skill is not the huge benefits youre getting when you successfully cloak - its how easy theyve allowed players to use it. It acts as a disjoint/immunity when activated, which is the biggest/main problem I have with this skill. You can throw caltrops on top of a NB, be standing next to him with lightning armor which will/should reveal him while a meteor is sailing down. And then they press cloak at the right time - despite standing in everything that breaks cloak, they will disjoint this, or a WB - despite using the exact things that should counter this.
If you use cloak inside caltrops, you should never go invis, you should never gain a moment to disjoint attacks. The real problem is ZOS doesnt even know how to program this logic properly to make this skill work this way. Its functioned so poorly in the past that they just give you this window when you pop it to make it actually work.
If you can successfully evade your enemy, you should be able to hide. Getting 'dodged' messages when youre hitting people that just went into cloak is absolutely stupid.
I agree with this in part, @FENGRUSH
However, the other problem that your frustration fails to recognize is that if you were to spontaneously fix cloak's force miss so that it didn't work when the NB is detected like you described (which is a logical change), then mageblade would suddenly become extremely squishy and extremely easy to burst compared to other classes. They'd be exactly like a magicka sorc standing still with no shields or streak on its bar. Standing on an AoE simply can't be the qualifier to negate a class's entire defensive mechanic like that. There needs to be some compensation for survivability.Edited by KenaPKK on January 19, 2016 8:52PM5 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No matter what zos will do with cloak, i hope they won't introduce cutting mana regen while cloak active. This mechanic is just incredibly stupid and should not exist in game in any aspect.
As i always saying - don't nerf sorcs and nbs, just buff dks and templars and game will be enjoyable.Edited by Cinbri on January 19, 2016 9:13PM2 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For the nightblades who are still whining about cloak being "broken", it's not. Nightblade was the first class I played, starting in beta, and cloak had lots of issues back then, but it has been working as intended for a while. Most of the complaints come from people who don't understand what is supposed to break you out of cloak.
As far as it being too strong, I have no issue dealing with cloak when playing on a stam build, since caltrops and steel tornado have such a huge aoe to break it. Magicka aoes are so small that it's really hard to pull a NB out of cloak. Would like to see a detect pot buff or a buff to revealing flare so that it's actually worth slotting outside of one niche purpose.
And I'd rather they get rid of the stupid cost stacking, regen cancelling, but if they're going to keep those on streak, dodge and block, they should probably add something to cloak for balance too.
The only thing I will definitely say is broken regarding cloak, and a huge pain in the ass, is dark flare.
That isn't a ground targeted AoE, its much like meteor. You can cloak meteor, but if its dark flare you just eat the 8k+ damage.
A meh gad, so annoying! In the grand scheme of things, though, this is the least of our worries. It's funny to see all the typical nightblades who run one shot build defending their precious cloak. In the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that at least 70% of the player base run a nightblade nowadays and it says it all. That percentage probably goes up to 90% in sewers. Cloak should be an ultimate that works like Overload. Stealth should not be a thing unless you are close to objects. Put Mark Target in the Alliance War or Bow tree line.
Frozn, I'm the main person defending cloak in this thread, and I run a 3k unbuffed regen, 3400 buffed weapon damage build on a stamblade Breton. I itemize for sustain and mobility -- I seldom one shot anyone. No good nightblade runs a one shot cheese build bro, and only a player who drops his guard will ever die to a one shot cheese build.
Your suggestions show how emotionally jaded and out of touch you are with this game.
First of, I've never said that you one shot people. If the hat doesn't suit you, don't wear it.
Second, a solo Nightblade doesn't as much sustain as a Dragonknight and Templar do because during the cloak duration, they are regenerating while a DK and a Templar are constantly either blocking or dodge rolling. If you are running 3k unbuffed regen, you have way too much. A stamblade should run max 2.5k stam regen, ideally 2k. In group play, it should be 2k max. Unless you are there to spam maneuvers, caltrops and vigor only.
I haven't put any emotions in my statement. I think you are saying that to provoque like most people usually do in these forums and failed drastically.Edited by frozywozy on January 19, 2016 9:36PMFrozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
1 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For the nightblades who are still whining about cloak being "broken", it's not. Nightblade was the first class I played, starting in beta, and cloak had lots of issues back then, but it has been working as intended for a while. Most of the complaints come from people who don't understand what is supposed to break you out of cloak.
As far as it being too strong, I have no issue dealing with cloak when playing on a stam build, since caltrops and steel tornado have such a huge aoe to break it. Magicka aoes are so small that it's really hard to pull a NB out of cloak. Would like to see a detect pot buff or a buff to revealing flare so that it's actually worth slotting outside of one niche purpose.
And I'd rather they get rid of the stupid cost stacking, regen cancelling, but if they're going to keep those on streak, dodge and block, they should probably add something to cloak for balance too.
The only thing I will definitely say is broken regarding cloak, and a huge pain in the ass, is dark flare.
That isn't a ground targeted AoE, its much like meteor. You can cloak meteor, but if its dark flare you just eat the 8k+ damage.
A meh gad, so annoying! In the grand scheme of things, though, this is the least of our worries. It's funny to see all the typical nightblades who run one shot build defending their precious cloak. In the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that at least 70% of the player base run a nightblade nowadays and it says it all. That percentage probably goes up to 90% in sewers. Cloak should be an ultimate that works like Overload. Stealth should not be a thing unless you are close to objects. Put Mark Target in the Alliance War or Bow tree line.
Frozn, I'm the main person defending cloak in this thread, and I run a 3k unbuffed regen, 3400 buffed weapon damage build on a stamblade Breton. I itemize for sustain and mobility -- I seldom one shot anyone. No good nightblade runs a one shot cheese build bro, and only a player who drops his guard will ever die to a one shot cheese build.
Your suggestions show how emotionally jaded and out of touch you are with this game.
First of, I've never said that you one shot people. If the hat doesn't suit you, don't wear it.
Second, a solo Nightblade doesn't as much sustain as a Dragonknight and Templar do because during the cloak duration, they are regenerating while a DK and a Templar are constantly either blocking or dodge rolling. If you are running 3k unbuffed regen, you have way too much. A stamblade should run max 2.5k stam regen, ideally 2k. In group play, it should be 2k max. Unless you are there to spam maneuvers, caltrops and vigor only.
I haven't put any emotions in my statement. I think you are saying that to provoque like most people usually do in these forums and failed drastically.
Changing tunes rather quickly as usual. ^.^
And yes, stamblades who solo v X in open world do like about 2900-3k unbuffed regen with about 3400 buffed weapon damage when they aren't imperial or redguard. We also like rocks. Go rocks!0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For the nightblades who are still whining about cloak being "broken", it's not. Nightblade was the first class I played, starting in beta, and cloak had lots of issues back then, but it has been working as intended for a while. Most of the complaints come from people who don't understand what is supposed to break you out of cloak.
As far as it being too strong, I have no issue dealing with cloak when playing on a stam build, since caltrops and steel tornado have such a huge aoe to break it. Magicka aoes are so small that it's really hard to pull a NB out of cloak. Would like to see a detect pot buff or a buff to revealing flare so that it's actually worth slotting outside of one niche purpose.
And I'd rather they get rid of the stupid cost stacking, regen cancelling, but if they're going to keep those on streak, dodge and block, they should probably add something to cloak for balance too.
The only thing I will definitely say is broken regarding cloak, and a huge pain in the ass, is dark flare.
That isn't a ground targeted AoE, its much like meteor. You can cloak meteor, but if its dark flare you just eat the 8k+ damage.
A meh gad, so annoying! In the grand scheme of things, though, this is the least of our worries. It's funny to see all the typical nightblades who run one shot build defending their precious cloak. In the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that at least 70% of the player base run a nightblade nowadays and it says it all. That percentage probably goes up to 90% in sewers. Cloak should be an ultimate that works like Overload. Stealth should not be a thing unless you are close to objects. Put Mark Target in the Alliance War or Bow tree line.
Frozn, I'm the main person defending cloak in this thread, and I run a 3k unbuffed regen, 3400 buffed weapon damage build on a stamblade Breton. I itemize for sustain and mobility -- I seldom one shot anyone. No good nightblade runs a one shot cheese build bro, and only a player who drops his guard will ever die to a one shot cheese build.
Your suggestions show how emotionally jaded and out of touch you are with this game.
First of, I've never said that you one shot people. If the hat doesn't suit you, don't wear it.
Second, a solo Nightblade doesn't as much sustain as a Dragonknight and Templar do because during the cloak duration, they are regenerating while a DK and a Templar are constantly either blocking or dodge rolling. If you are running 3k unbuffed regen, you have way too much. A stamblade should run max 2.5k stam regen, ideally 2k. In group play, it should be 2k max. Unless you are there to spam maneuvers, caltrops and vigor only.
I haven't put any emotions in my statement. I think you are saying that to provoque like most people usually do in these forums and failed drastically.
LOL what?
The Age of Wrobel.2 -
ZOS_CoriJ✭✭✭✭✭We have removed some commentary that was becoming inappropriate toward the discussion. We expect some competition and heated debate in PvP, especially where classes are concerned. However, wording can easily get out of hand and become provoking. We ask that you keep arguments on topic and civil among all parties.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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No longer available to take PMs or messages: Please defer to another Moderator1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭mag NBs are fine, the problem is stamblades cloak too much in between their 6k/shot spambush SA facerollPC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP3 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm all for decreased magicka regen for the 3 seconds that I'm in cloak if magicka sorcs get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Hardened Ward, templars get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casing Breath of Life, and magicka DK gets decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Dragon's Bl....nevermind, sorry DKs. Cloak is an unreliable skill with abundant counters, yet it must mitigate as much damage for mageblades as Hardened Ward does for magicka sorcs, BoL for templars, etc etc.
You're talking about gimping mageblade's primary defensive mechanism.
If you're so frustrated with cloak that you believe these changes are warranted, then you're a bad player. Plain and simple.
Worry about problems that actually exist, like how much more damage stamina is doing compared to magicka.
...
So, a skill that acts like a magicka based dodge roll, that adds max health for being slotted, that procs major resist buffs on cast, that purges up to 4 dots, that clears tab targeting and can be combined with heals from other NB skills must be as powerful as breath of life or hardened ward?
You forgot the part where cloak doesn't move you ever and doesn't provide invisibility against good players.
..
I kind of find it interesting, that despite all the things cloak does, even when the invisibility fails, that the response is "it doesn't move you and good players always have radiant/detect pots/caltrops/excess resources for aoes, ready." Not a "the other classes don't have nearly as many defining skills that make playing the class unique and interesting without having some sort of restraint" or any acknowledgment that nightblades have more skills than cloak.
Want mobility? NB's have 3 ways to get major move speed and have the longest range teleport in game, and while invisible you aren't rooted, use wasd to move at 100% speed, 125% with concealed weapon (5% slower than sprint speed). Sorry, but as long as nightblades are stuck in the mindset that "everyone else just has to l2p" and not address the fact that they are in the best position as a class in the game in regards to both skills and passives than I don't think any productive conversation can come from it.
We are not oblivious. We just want other classes buffed instead of repeated nerfs to anything that's working well. Instead of playing the victim and demanding equalizing nerfs for anything that annoys or inconveniences you, instead call for buffs to other classes or skill lines.
As for NB abilities, cloak does not give us immunity from snares and roots. You'll rarely use cloak and get the "best case" use out of it, being 2.9 seconds of invisibility with no lingering ccs. When you do, the enemy messed up. Nightblades are squishy and immobile (with the exception of shade, which I'll address) by design. You have to stop being so scared of them. Jump on their face and lock them down. A nightblade will panic when you get in his face, then scurry to create distance. I promise.
As for shade being the longest range teleport, yes this is true, and it's one of my favorite abilities in the game. However, it requires lots of setup and a little carelessness on your opponent's part to pull off as an escape since you have to move away from the shade and then only get one poof. This skill is only really useful when you're attempting to 1vX a group of people around structure or rock terrain. Streak is much stronger as an escape overall.
TLDR: [snip] Call for buffs to other stuff instead of nerfs to a class that, as you described, is unique and interesting and exciting and working well.
[Edited to remove inappropriate content]
I agree, but when it comes to communication about these kind of changes zos is far more often than not a closed and sealed door. I don't have many personal problems with enemy NB's (I either run my own and relieve stress with mark spam or my dk tank that runs radiant 24/7 in cyrodiil, but I have seen NB's vanish in my radiant magelight's range) but with no responses as to what general direction zos plans to bring the classes leave us with nothing but these kind of conversations. I'm still waiting on a write-up Wrobel was apparently getting together last february for stam sorcs, but at this rate i'm not expecting much coming up in the next patch with their record.0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mag NBs are fine, the problem is stamblades cloak too much in between their 6k/shot spambush SA faceroll
I'll be fine doing less damage (or more damage, with higher ability costs all around) when healing and defense also isn't as stupid faceroll as this. Less damage for stamblade, means more people facerolling wrecking blow.
Inb4 post gets removed.
https://youtu.be/vTq8TpoJEDU?t=26s Edited by OdinForge on January 19, 2016 11:23PMThe Age of Wrobel.1 -
Dude... I have a vet 16 nb and it is actually very easy to catch me or any nb that tries to run from me spamming cloak, don't suck at life and use aoe. Caltrops, steel tornado, anything.2
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Itoq✭✭✭✭stealthyevil wrote: »with just vague outlines. Now, that disguise isn't allowed in Cyrodil for obvious reasons, what if Dark Cloak were tweaked to be displayed similar to that.
While I agree that the way cloak works right now is downright silly and needs some reworking, I don't like shadowy type cloaks in games in general. Being able to see such shadowy and shimmering cloaking is too dependent on monitor type, monitor quality, room lighting and monitor settings, such as gamma.
The best first step to re-balance for cloak would be to correct how reveal potions work and for how long they work (with additional small tweaks in addition.) And ffs mob detect/aggro, really?Edited by Itoq on January 20, 2016 10:19AM2 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
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Sure :P
I rather fight three cloaking NBs at once than a single fkin Templar -_-Edited by Soulac on January 20, 2016 8:30AMR.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -4 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
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That's completely and utterly wrong. Lotus Fan, incap strike/soul harvest, proxy det, dead. 1 second, 37k burst.
I hope you're trolling.PC EU6 -
RAZORNZL✭✭Just remove the dark cloak insta purge and boom fixed now we can counter with dots i mean if you want that purge so much use the purge from the alliance war tree.
They can still hit OP and perma cloak so they will be happy and its just to bad if whoever they are fighting isnt smart enough to dot them.
Good nightblades will make this work and the bad ones will re roll magika sorcs.2 -
EdTerra✭✭✭
The only thing who can make me feel weak as mageblade is hardy+impen like all other mag class[EU] AD - Erdril v16 N(oo)B | AR40
[NA] EP - Erdril NB
Still a solo player in this zergfest
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXPJv3O6DC5ZYECfF3-rQ-Q0 -
Barlthump✭✭✭I like the idea of the visual change. I messed around with that disguise for a while and aside from the bug particles I could be near invisible just standing in the open in some places, while in others (namely lit areas) you could easily spot the outline. This reminds me of other games where invisibility only renders the user transparent and has reduced effectiveness while moving. That kind of gameplay requires more skill form the user use but also gives meaningful counterplay (something this game doesn't really have much of). Think that's the best suggestion i've seen yet.
I'd rather you give me a magicka regen nerf. if you wanna implement this, i suggest giving streak the same thing, it gives an animation of the guy flying away, but is really just standing there. or shields have a visual aspect but doesnt apply anything. Proper suggestions please. Magicka regen nerf in cloak is acceptable.0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just remove the dark cloak insta purge and boom fixed now we can counter with dots i mean if you want that purge so much use the purge from the alliance war tree.
They can still hit OP and perma cloak so they will be happy and its just to bad if whoever they are fighting isnt smart enough to dot them.
Good nightblades will make this work and the bad ones will re roll magika sorcs.
To counter the main defense of NBs just use:
- a cheap potion
- any AoE
- mark target
- entropy
- burning embers
- random cloak break cause why not
On top of that you want all dots to break it, making it completely useless as stamina nightblade.
Unlike other classes a nightblades main defense got a ton of counters, making them visible for all enemies.
Now let's look at BoL, Block, Dodge, Shields.
They all got counters, but they don't make them useless.
Cloak right now is strong in case it works, but there is no real alternative to use.
Just imagine Shield breaker removing your shields completely instead of bypassing it by a little.
Welcome to a nightblade fight.
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -4 -
Barlthump✭✭✭It's funny to see all the typical nightblades who run one shot build defending their precious cloak. In the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that at least 70% of the player base run a nightblade nowadays and it says it all. That percentage probably goes up to 90% in sewers. Cloak should be an ultimate that works like Overload. Stealth should not be a thing unless you are close to objects. Put Mark Target in the Alliance War or Bow tree line.
Yeah okay, make cloak an ultimate, i like that idea, but it gives me stealth which cant be broken and does considerable damage when i poke from stealth? Overload light attacks hit for 15k a hit without the molag kena proc. AND DO IT, make mark part of a tree where everyone can use it. i would like to see how many people would actually use the skills to counter cloak, there are alr ways to counter it but no one uses it, not like its gonna make any difference to me at all. It's funny to see all the typical (other class whichever you are) who run (pew pew builds) crying about dark cloak.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭If I want to make my friends who play other pvp games laugh, I tell them about nightblade cloak in eso.
We all know eso was never going to be a competetive (balanced) pvp game, but giving de facto unlimited access to invisibility, instant & infight, is madness. They even made it cleanse and not break on self initiated heals. This skill is so imbalanced its laughable.
Only slight changes needed to make it balanced, though. Cloak is important/needed as an opener or non-spammable panic button, but shouldnt allow to constantly escape punishment for bad play and botched first strikes. Therefore the GW2 solution of implementing "cloak sickness" for anything from 3-8 seconds after first application would make sense.
People would have think before using cloak, like it should be. Pressing the ultimate escape button at the end of every rotation without punishment? - thats not balance.
Delete the abomination of detect pots and make cloak not break on ae in combination with above mentioned change and we wouldve a far more skillful game.
Please dont bother with "but shields...", yeah, they are as imbalanced, give em the treatment healing ward once had - stacking possible but no overwriting, means "shield a" cannot be refreshed before it is expired. Believe me, that simple change would weed out about 60% of the current sorc pop because they wouldve to think and observe to chose the right shield for the moment.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
RAZORNZL✭✭Just remove the dark cloak insta purge and boom fixed now we can counter with dots i mean if you want that purge so much use the purge from the alliance war tree.
They can still hit OP and perma cloak so they will be happy and its just to bad if whoever they are fighting isnt smart enough to dot them.
Good nightblades will make this work and the bad ones will re roll magika sorcs.
To counter the main defense of NBs just use:
- a cheap potion
- any AoE
- mark target
- entropy
- burning embers
- random cloak break cause why not
On top of that you want all dots to break it, making it completely useless as stamina nightblade.
Unlike other classes a nightblades main defense got a ton of counters, making them visible for all enemies.
Now let's look at BoL, Block, Dodge, Shields.
They all got counters, but they don't make them useless.
Cloak right now is strong in case it works, but there is no real alternative to use.
Just imagine Shield breaker removing your shields completely instead of bypassing it by a little.
Welcome to a nightblade fight.Just remove the dark cloak insta purge and boom fixed now we can counter with dots i mean if you want that purge so much use the purge from the alliance war tree.
They can still hit OP and perma cloak so they will be happy and its just to bad if whoever they are fighting isnt smart enough to dot them.
Good nightblades will make this work and the bad ones will re roll magika sorcs.
To counter the main defense of NBs just use:
- a cheap potion
- any AoE
- mark target
- entropy
- burning embers
- random cloak break cause why not
On top of that you want all dots to break it, making it completely useless as stamina nightblade.
Unlike other classes a nightblades main defense got a ton of counters, making them visible for all enemies.
Now let's look at BoL, Block, Dodge, Shields.
They all got counters, but they don't make them useless.
Cloak right now is strong in case it works, but there is no real alternative to use.
Just imagine Shield breaker removing your shields completely instead of bypassing it by a little.
Welcome to a nightblade fight.
The only 2 things that actually work that you have stated are mark target and the potion.Even though it may be a bug aoe can break it but for some reason its a luck thing where they will just perma cloak through aoe/caltrops alot of the time.if that was fixed cool but i still think removeing the purge is fair.And before people say the alliance war purge costs to much it is very easy to make work infact i use it on my stam nb for curses and mark targets and yeah i cant spam cloak 50 times but i can still hit it a more then enough to go hide behind a tree and set up for another attack.0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here is how to balance it:
Remove the night blades from cloak at any ability they cast while cloaked.
No stamina and magica regeneration during cloak time.
If above fixes are implemented then the cloak will be used as intended:
1. During the fights it will be used to cleanse and apply surprise attack combos or crit attack combos. The resource penalty will not be noticeable if the attacker gets out of stealth as soon as possible.
3. The escape - you have to plan it properly and use cloak wisely or you will run out of resources very quickly.
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Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭avid_mdb16_ESO wrote: »Here is how to balance it:
Remove the night blades from cloak at any ability they cast while cloaked.
No stamina and magica regeneration during cloak time.
If above fixes are implemented then the cloak will be used as intended:
1. During the fights it will be used to cleanse and apply surprise attack combos or crit attack combos. The resource penalty will not be noticeable if the attacker gets out of stealth as soon as possible.
3. The escape - you have to plan it properly and use cloak wisely or you will run out of resources very quickly.
I use cloak as my main defense, since dodge works just as intended..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTDSlRWzPQ
As it is right now cloak is fine. A lot of counters and sometimes it breaks just cause it wants to.
If there is a problem with Caltrops and cloak, well fix it.
But if people are too lazy to use the counters given to them it ain't be my problem.
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -4
