Dark Cloak Suggestions

Knootewoot

RAZORNZL wrote: »

Just remove the dark cloak insta purge and boom fixed now we can counter with dots i mean if you want that purge so much use the purge from the alliance war tree.
They can still hit OP and perma cloak so they will be happy and its just to bad if whoever they are fighting isnt smart enough to dot them.

Good nightblades will make this work and the bad ones will re roll magika sorcs.

Only if they remove the ability from Flappy wings to reflect incoming projectiles. That's more annoying then cloak.

reften

OMG OTHER CLASSES HAVE A GOOD SKILL AND I DON'T HAVE IT! NERF!

geez

FMonk

reften wrote: »

OMG OTHER CLASSES HAVE A GOOD SKILL AND I DON'T HAVE IT! NERF!

geez

That's literally what happened to streak. Multiple times.

reften

FMonk wrote: »

reften wrote: »

OMG OTHER CLASSES HAVE A GOOD SKILL AND I DON'T HAVE IT! NERF!

geez

That's literally what happened to streak. Multiple times.

yeah sucks, I never had a problem with streak, or perma blocking....fixing stuff that isn't broken, or all the roll dodging, or the NB sappers.

Vamps needed a nerf long ago, way too OP, and WW needed boost, but other than that, they're constantly changing a game due to whines instead of just fixing the dam lag.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

How bout we stop nerfing things. Unnerf streak, unnerf dragons blood, unnerf blazing shield. revert the health nerf, the shield nerf the dodge roll nerf, the block nerf, reinstate soft-caps and delete CP.

NBs are fine but CP and infinite resource regen makes too many things OP just because they can be spammed.

CP destroyed this game. And its destroying every ability that gets nerfed because of CP and no softcaps.

KenaPKK

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

mag NBs are fine, the problem is stamblades cloak too much in between their 6k/shot spambush SA faceroll

Mageblade damage is way low compared to any stam class.

That's completely and utterly wrong. Lotus Fan, incap strike/soul harvest, proxy det, dead. 1 second, 37k burst.

I hope you're trolling.

You can reach that kind of burst against enemies with misplaced CP while running a glass cannon crit damage build, yes, but you'll have zero sustain and will have to hit an enemy who neither blocks nor heals nor roll dodges while praying for multiple crits. If they're using Hardy or any reflexes at all, you won't blow them up like that.

Also, a comparable glass cannon stamina build will achieve higher burst 100% of the time.

stealthyevil

KenaPKK wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

mag NBs are fine, the problem is stamblades cloak too much in between their 6k/shot spambush SA faceroll

Mageblade damage is way low compared to any stam class.

That's completely and utterly wrong. Lotus Fan, incap strike/soul harvest, proxy det, dead. 1 second, 37k burst.

I hope you're trolling.

You can reach that kind of burst against enemies with misplaced CP while running a glass cannon crit damage build, yes, but you'll have zero sustain and will have to hit an enemy who neither blocks nor heals nor roll dodges while praying for multiple crits. If they're using Hardy or any reflexes at all, you won't blow them up like that.

Also, a comparable glass cannon stamina build will achieve higher burst 100% of the time.

This is spot on for pretty much all the classes at the moment except maybe sorc ?

Love Wizard

Cloak is perfect in it's current state, it's very easy to counter play it and lets us squishy magicka nightblades float around as we wish. It's not nearly as unbalanced as other skills in the game are, such as wrecking blow.

Xsorus

Cloak needs two changes.

Sentry Set needs to work against it

and Scorching Flare needs to have its dot actually stick against the Nightblade..Its bloody silly to have a revealing ability that gets purged by the very ability its designed to counter.

Master_Kas

FMonk wrote: »

reften wrote: »

OMG OTHER CLASSES HAVE A GOOD SKILL AND I DON'T HAVE IT! NERF!

geez

That's literally what happened to streak. Multiple times.

Doesn't make it right tough. Only nubs complained about streak

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Master_Kas wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

reften wrote: »

OMG OTHER CLASSES HAVE A GOOD SKILL AND I DON'T HAVE IT! NERF!

geez

That's literally what happened to streak. Multiple times.

Doesn't make it right tough. Only nubs complained about streak

Then this game must be full of nubs. There were countless "nerf streak" threads. The most common argument is that NO CLASS should have an ability that lets them completely disengage from combat. Which is exactly what NBs exclusively now have in cloak.

I never agreed with any of the streak nerfs no do I agree with nerfing cloak but it was mostly NBs whining that they couldn't catch sorcs.

The biggest nerf to streak however was the gapcloser root/silence. Gap closers now hard counter streak. No need for any nerf.

Master_Kas

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

reften wrote: »

OMG OTHER CLASSES HAVE A GOOD SKILL AND I DON'T HAVE IT! NERF!

geez

That's literally what happened to streak. Multiple times.

Doesn't make it right tough. Only nubs complained about streak

Then this game must be full of nubs. There were countless "nerf streak" threads. The most common argument is that NO CLASS should have an ability that lets them completely disengage from combat. Which is exactly what NBs exclusively now have in cloak.

I never agreed with any of the streak nerfs no do I agree with nerfing cloak but it was mostly NBs whining that they couldn't catch sorcs.

The biggest nerf to streak however was the gapcloser root/silence. Gap closers now hard counter streak. No need for any nerf.

Yes it is. I never had issue catching bolting sorcs on my nightblade nor on my dragonknight (when you could use invasion easier ^^ ) And still don't. If I didn't catch them I ignored them , most of the time they came back anyway.

Also don't have an issue with cloak when playing non NB either. My issues are spambush/lotus fan spamming on all my specs. It's very frustrating

TheBonesXXX

AoEs, Detect Pot > Cloak

Prox Det is not apart of the Nightblade skill lines, thus does not belong in an argument referring to Nightblade damage or what they can do out of stealth.

Cloak is actually poop in its current state and was better pre-patch, single target ranged attacks travel to Cloaked all the time and reveal their whereabouts.

Its really not that great compared to other defensive abilities especially as a magicka NB.

Cody

disable or halve magicka regen while using cloak, or something with a vague outline like you suggest. thats fine.

EdTerra

Cody wrote: »

disable or halve magicka regen while using cloak, or something with a vague outline like you suggest. thats fine.

yeah yeah and make an immune to cloak for 10s after each skill who hit the nb.

cloak isn't an uncrit safe zone like shields, cloak don't grant you a full effect cauz it can be break unlike streak, stop QQ cauz a nb sucess to flee away u'r zerg once or twice a day

play u'r nb solo for once and learn the truth about this legendary OP cloak...
PS : I'm a melee mag nb and yeah I'm mad about cloak since stardmina gap closer spam + steel tardnado is the overall Xv1 players (ah and 90% of the time I'm marked) but yeah "L2p mark can be purged u_U" lel

OdinForge

Gap closers and snares are ruining any hope of balance in this game, what an unbelievable mechanic change. Not to mention other mechanics that dumb this game down too much. Doing more harm than any one class.**

frozywozy

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

AoEs, Detect Pot > Cloak

Prox Det is not apart of the Nightblade skill lines, thus does not belong in an argument referring to Nightblade damage or what they can do out of stealth.

Cloak is actually poop in its current state and was better pre-patch, single target ranged attacks travel to Cloaked all the time and reveal their whereabouts.

Its really not that great compared to other defensive abilities especially as a magicka NB.

FENGRUSH

frozywozy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

AoEs, Detect Pot > Cloak

Prox Det is not apart of the Nightblade skill lines, thus does not belong in an argument referring to Nightblade damage or what they can do out of stealth.

Cloak is actually poop in its current state and was better pre-patch, single target ranged attacks travel to Cloaked all the time and reveal their whereabouts.

Its really not that great compared to other defensive abilities especially as a magicka NB.

Confirmed.

Sallington

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we stop nerfing things. Unnerf streak, unnerf dragons blood, unnerf blazing shield. revert the health nerf, the shield nerf the dodge roll nerf, the block nerf, reinstate soft-caps and delete CP.

NBs are fine but CP and infinite resource regen makes too many things OP just because they can be spammed.

CP destroyed this game. And its destroying every ability that gets nerfed because of CP and no softcaps.

Step 1) Remove softcaps
Step 2) Add CPs where people can stack regen AND dmg AND survivability at the same time
Step 3) Wonder why everything is OP
Step 4) Nerf everything

FENGRUSH

Sallington wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we stop nerfing things. Unnerf streak, unnerf dragons blood, unnerf blazing shield. revert the health nerf, the shield nerf the dodge roll nerf, the block nerf, reinstate soft-caps and delete CP.

NBs are fine but CP and infinite resource regen makes too many things OP just because they can be spammed.

CP destroyed this game. And its destroying every ability that gets nerfed because of CP and no softcaps.

Step 1) Remove softcaps
Step 2) Add CPs where people can stack regen AND dmg AND survivability at the same time
Step 3) Wonder why everything is OP
Step 4) Nerf everything

lol so true

FMonk

Sallington wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we stop nerfing things. Unnerf streak, unnerf dragons blood, unnerf blazing shield. revert the health nerf, the shield nerf the dodge roll nerf, the block nerf, reinstate soft-caps and delete CP.

NBs are fine but CP and infinite resource regen makes too many things OP just because they can be spammed.

CP destroyed this game. And its destroying every ability that gets nerfed because of CP and no softcaps.

Step 1) Remove softcaps
Step 2) Add CPs where people can stack regen AND dmg AND survivability at the same time
Step 3) Wonder why everything is OP
Step 4) Nerf everything

I said it a long time ago, the champion system is way too extreme. 100 cp should give like 5-10% regen/increased damage/whatever, not 25%. That would keep whatever illusion of "progression" they want to have for the PvEers without making the game as much of a balance ***

Darnathian

Crown wrote: »

I've played a magicka NB from day 1 through AR50, and have always loved cloak. The reason it is so powerful is that PEOPLE DON'T BOTHER TO THINK ABOUT COUNTERING IT.

How many of you run Radiant Magelight on a bar while travelling between keeps? There are outfitter addons to swap bars with the touch of a button that make it easy.

How many of you drop a caltrops defensively when you stop moving and will stay in one place for a while?

How many of you see a NB cloak and hit bombard or steel tornado (or any other AoE) to bring them out?

Since I started playing my stam DK with bombard on one bar and caltrops on the other, very few NBs have escaped from me. If they're moving away from me, a bombard snares and reveals them. If they're doing the dodge in and out to keep 100% crit from disguise, a caltrops makes it impossible for them to succeed. If my group stops moving and stacks, unless we're stealthing, my caltrops is always centred on us or the primary ingress point to us for defensive purposes.

I dare say that people who complain about cloak simply don't bother to use or arrange for someone close to them (in group) to use one of the MANY counters to it.

Come on man. yes there are counters but either you waste skill slots or you waste resources trying to find them. make detect pots 30 secs or remove the dot cleanse entirely and slot purge like everyone else.

If nb's are so willing to say people should have to use 2 slots for radiant magelight then its fair for us to ask the nbs to use one slot for purge. Am i right?

Darnathian

KenaPKK wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

I'm all for decreased magicka regen for the 3 seconds that I'm in cloak if magicka sorcs get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Hardened Ward, templars get decreased regen for 3 seconds after casing Breath of Life, and magicka DK gets decreased regen for 3 seconds after casting Dragon's Bl....nevermind, sorry DKs. Cloak is an unreliable skill with abundant counters, yet it must mitigate as much damage for mageblades as Hardened Ward does for magicka sorcs, BoL for templars, etc etc.

You're talking about gimping mageblade's primary defensive mechanism.

If you're so frustrated with cloak that you believe these changes are warranted, then you're a bad player. Plain and simple.

Worry about problems that actually exist, like how much more damage stamina is doing compared to magicka.
...

So, a skill that acts like a magicka based dodge roll, that adds max health for being slotted, that procs major resist buffs on cast, that purges up to 4 dots, that clears tab targeting and can be combined with heals from other NB skills must be as powerful as breath of life or hardened ward?

You forgot the part where cloak doesn't move you ever and doesn't provide invisibility against good players.

..

I kind of find it interesting, that despite all the things cloak does, even when the invisibility fails, that the response is "it doesn't move you and good players always have radiant/detect pots/caltrops/excess resources for aoes, ready." Not a "the other classes don't have nearly as many defining skills that make playing the class unique and interesting without having some sort of restraint" or any acknowledgment that nightblades have more skills than cloak.

Want mobility? NB's have 3 ways to get major move speed and have the longest range teleport in game, and while invisible you aren't rooted, use wasd to move at 100% speed, 125% with concealed weapon (5% slower than sprint speed). Sorry, but as long as nightblades are stuck in the mindset that "everyone else just has to l2p" and not address the fact that they are in the best position as a class in the game in regards to both skills and passives than I don't think any productive conversation can come from it.

We are not oblivious. We just want other classes buffed instead of repeated nerfs to anything that's working well. Instead of playing the victim and demanding equalizing nerfs for anything that annoys or inconveniences you, instead call for buffs to other classes or skill lines.

As for NB abilities, cloak does not give us immunity from snares and roots. You'll rarely use cloak and get the "best case" use out of it, being 2.9 seconds of invisibility with no lingering ccs. When you do, the enemy messed up. Nightblades are squishy and immobile (with the exception of shade, which I'll address) by design. You have to stop being so scared of them. Jump on their face and lock them down. A nightblade will panic when you get in his face, then scurry to create distance. I promise.

As for shade being the longest range teleport, yes this is true, and it's one of my favorite abilities in the game. However, it requires lots of setup and a little carelessness on your opponent's part to pull off as an escape since you have to move away from the shade and then only get one poof. This skill is only really useful when you're attempting to 1vX a group of people around structure or rock terrain. Streak is much stronger as an escape overall.

TLDR: [snip] Call for buffs to other stuff instead of nerfs to a class that, as you described, is unique and interesting and exciting and working well.

[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

is this a joke? nbs are not mobile? lol

CtrlAltDlt

FMonk wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we stop nerfing things. Unnerf streak, unnerf dragons blood, unnerf blazing shield. revert the health nerf, the shield nerf the dodge roll nerf, the block nerf, reinstate soft-caps and delete CP.

NBs are fine but CP and infinite resource regen makes too many things OP just because they can be spammed.

CP destroyed this game. And its destroying every ability that gets nerfed because of CP and no softcaps.

Step 1) Remove softcaps
Step 2) Add CPs where people can stack regen AND dmg AND survivability at the same time
Step 3) Wonder why everything is OP
Step 4) Nerf everything

I said it a long time ago, the champion system is way too extreme. 100 cp should give like 5-10% regen/increased damage/whatever, not 25%. That would keep whatever illusion of "progression" they want to have for the PvEers without making the game as much of a balance ***

Agreed. The quicker people realize how *** up the cp system is for the balance of this game the sooner the nerf X threads will stop. Because lets face it, after next patch we will see numerous nerf X threads all over again. It's a vicious cycle that won't stop and the main culprit is CP with it's extreme numbers.

Masuimi

I love how all the people that keep saying "stop calling for nerfs on NBs, instead ask for buffs to other classes" are the same people that relentlessly complained for sorcs to get a streak/BoL nerf.

Sallington

CtrlAltDlt wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we stop nerfing things. Unnerf streak, unnerf dragons blood, unnerf blazing shield. revert the health nerf, the shield nerf the dodge roll nerf, the block nerf, reinstate soft-caps and delete CP.

NBs are fine but CP and infinite resource regen makes too many things OP just because they can be spammed.

CP destroyed this game. And its destroying every ability that gets nerfed because of CP and no softcaps.

Step 1) Remove softcaps
Step 2) Add CPs where people can stack regen AND dmg AND survivability at the same time
Step 3) Wonder why everything is OP
Step 4) Nerf everything

I said it a long time ago, the champion system is way too extreme. 100 cp should give like 5-10% regen/increased damage/whatever, not 25%. That would keep whatever illusion of "progression" they want to have for the PvEers without making the game as much of a balance ***

Agreed. The quicker people realize how *** up the cp system is for the balance of this game the sooner the nerf X threads will stop. Because lets face it, after next patch we will see numerous nerf X threads all over again. It's a vicious cycle that won't stop and the main culprit is CP with it's extreme numbers.

It wouldn't have been as bad if they had any foresight whatsoever. Allowing people to max out the entire 3600 (lol) point tree is such an awful idea I almost can't believe it's real.

The trees are OK as is for the most part, but the CPs should be maxed at 120, and people should have to make decisions. Give enough CP to get to the top passive of one tree if you want to, or spread them around. Obviously CPs should be harder to get if this were the case.

Poxheart

Masuimi wrote: »

I love how all the people that keep saying "stop calling for nerfs on NBs, instead ask for buffs to other classes" are the same people that relentlessly complained for sorcs to get a streak/BoL nerf.

or complained about DKs.

Darnathian

Masuimi wrote: »

I love how all the people that keep saying "stop calling for nerfs on NBs, instead ask for buffs to other classes" are the same people that relentlessly complained for sorcs to get a streak/BoL nerf.

And Mag Dk, Temp, and Sorcs. lol. they screamed for detection pot nerfs, whip hitting them when they perma rolled, etc. laughable really that they think everything is fine now.

CtrlAltDlt

Masuimi wrote: »

I love how all the people that keep saying "stop calling for nerfs on NBs, instead ask for buffs to other classes" are the same people that relentlessly complained for sorcs to get a streak/BoL nerf.

That is really a *** attitude by them, and even though I 've only play a NB since I started this game, I'm looking forward to whatever nerfs ZOS has planned us.

frozywozy

Sallington wrote: »

CtrlAltDlt wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we stop nerfing things. Unnerf streak, unnerf dragons blood, unnerf blazing shield. revert the health nerf, the shield nerf the dodge roll nerf, the block nerf, reinstate soft-caps and delete CP.

NBs are fine but CP and infinite resource regen makes too many things OP just because they can be spammed.

CP destroyed this game. And its destroying every ability that gets nerfed because of CP and no softcaps.

Step 1) Remove softcaps
Step 2) Add CPs where people can stack regen AND dmg AND survivability at the same time
Step 3) Wonder why everything is OP
Step 4) Nerf everything

I said it a long time ago, the champion system is way too extreme. 100 cp should give like 5-10% regen/increased damage/whatever, not 25%. That would keep whatever illusion of "progression" they want to have for the PvEers without making the game as much of a balance ***

Agreed. The quicker people realize how *** up the cp system is for the balance of this game the sooner the nerf X threads will stop. Because lets face it, after next patch we will see numerous nerf X threads all over again. It's a vicious cycle that won't stop and the main culprit is CP with it's extreme numbers.

It wouldn't have been as bad if they had any foresight whatsoever. Allowing people to max out the entire 3600 (lol) point tree is such an awful idea I almost can't believe it's real.

The trees are OK as is for the most part, but the CPs should be maxed at 120, and people should have to make decisions. Give enough CP to get to the top passive of one tree if you want to, or spread them around. Obviously CPs should be harder to get if this were the case.

And CPs should give more UTILITY over more damage or more sustain. Such as "increasing the duration of roots", "increasing the duration of CC immunity" or "increasing the speed you can sprint", etc. (Most of these ideas are from @Sypher). They also need to make frost and lightning a viable spec.