Is 51 Champion Points per Quarter the right mark for ZOS to set?

Jura23 · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I'm over the cap and will be for the foreseeable future.

The issue I see with the "argument" being bludgeoned is the concept that 3600 is a cap. Problem being that looking at it like a cap means you believe it's meant to be reached.

Don't look at 3600 as a cap, but as the total of Champion points that can be ever reached.

For the most part, no build will need even close to 3600... no matter how hybridized it is.

I'd rather see higher caps, but I also have higher champion points and I'm not going to look at it strictly from a "I am everything" perspective.

3600 was meant to be reached from the start. otherwise they wouldn't put in achievment for doing so, dont you think?

Anhedonie · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

I was expecting 100-150 per quarter, starting from Thieves Guild DLC.

Mumyo · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

Everyone picking too low, just think of urself starting from scratch... i know you wouldnt like it...

Elloa · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

I'm a snail in term of leveling AND gaining Champion point. I'm still below 300 Cp while playing a lot! (yes you read well)

BUT, I do believe 51 CP to earn in 3 months is to low. - I think it should be arround 100. That way it's low enough for casual to catch up over 3 months, and motivating enough for active players to keep playing.

@Wollust

But well whatever. I guess I don't care anymorw about stupid decisions and ultra tryhard catering to casuals.

Would be nice to not insult the (most likely) most important part of the community. Every player and every playstyle deserve respect. Thanks.

Mumyo · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

Jura23 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I'm over the cap and will be for the foreseeable future.

The issue I see with the "argument" being bludgeoned is the concept that 3600 is a cap. Problem being that looking at it like a cap means you believe it's meant to be reached.

Don't look at 3600 as a cap, but as the total of Champion points that can be ever reached.

For the most part, no build will need even close to 3600... no matter how hybridized it is.

I'd rather see higher caps, but I also have higher champion points and I'm not going to look at it strictly from a "I am everything" perspective.

3600 was meant to be reached from the start. otherwise they wouldn't put in achievment for doing so, dont you think?

On the other side it wouldnt make any sense. People allways complained about vr ranks and cp is a worse form of it. 3600 cp means many more veteran ranks. I thought the actual idea of cp was diversity in builds.
That would have been smart but what we got right now is just a gamekiller.
Everyone who is a 100+ away from the cap will have a HUGE disadvantage in pvp. I feel like a *** fighting low cp dudes. So we make every newb nothing but a victim, their fun will suffer alot and every smart and good pvper will also suffer since its not his skill deciding the fight. It takes way too long to catch up. Still!
The impact is just too big.

Jura23 · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Mumyo wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I'm over the cap and will be for the foreseeable future.

The issue I see with the "argument" being bludgeoned is the concept that 3600 is a cap. Problem being that looking at it like a cap means you believe it's meant to be reached.

Don't look at 3600 as a cap, but as the total of Champion points that can be ever reached.

For the most part, no build will need even close to 3600... no matter how hybridized it is.

I'd rather see higher caps, but I also have higher champion points and I'm not going to look at it strictly from a "I am everything" perspective.

3600 was meant to be reached from the start. otherwise they wouldn't put in achievment for doing so, dont you think?

On the other side it wouldnt make any sense. People allways complained about vr ranks and cp is a worse form of it. 3600 cp means many more veteran ranks. I thought the actual idea of cp was diversity in builds.
That would have been smart but what we got right now is just a gamekiller.
Everyone who is a 100+ away from the cap will have a HUGE disadvantage in pvp. I feel like a *** fighting low cp dudes. So we make every newb nothing but a victim, their fun will suffer alot and every smart and good pvper will also suffer since its not his skill deciding the fight. It takes way too long to catch up. Still!
The impact is just too big.

I understand, but we still need something for ppl to play on daily basis and improve continually. With all the restrictions to CP, I'm not sure it fulfills this function anymore. It needs to be figured out. Lots of ppl complain about RNG, why not give them some kind of RNG progression. So more you play content, the better your chances get. Or something like that.

Destruent · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Biggest joke for me, is the enlightenment bonus with this low cap-raising in mind. Enlightenment grants one (or more) CP per day below cap and less than a half if above the cap. Those of us above the cap will gain less than 45 through enlightement which is below the cap and fine imo (they will get more bc they usually play more...i get normally 1...2CP a day and have ~580 atm).
But those with less CP will get 90+ CP only by using their enlightement...it seems like, they are not supposed to use their enlightenment-bonus, which is a bit disappointing

edit: forgot to add...Those with high CP usually have everything ingame done already a thousand times, so there is not that much left to do. Gaining CP was one of those things left, but they killed it now...

BlackEar · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

I am sure Zenimax already did the calculations based on actual statistics monitoring player activity.
In short - this is about right

If they haven't done so.. then I would pick about 99 champion point increase.

Duiwel · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

I answered it was too low, however if they didn't force you to choose 1 of each Star sign everytime, then the 51 would be enough because technicaly it would be 103 points i can put in anywhere I want.

For the current system however I would say make it an even 80

mlstevens42_ESO · January 2016

For the first 1000 to 1500 cp I would agree the difference is staggering if you compare the regen and costs of different skills resists and such when comparing 0 to the former. The extra star passives being a difference and the front stacking which gives diminishing returns on points invested. The thing is between 1500 and 2500 the difference is not as great. By the time you would hit 3600 there are most likely going to be some cp's you would not even need to use.

Still the question is do I personally think the new proposed cap to be low....answer yes. Even at just one cp per day I would have the cap within a few weeks of setting the new cap. A better one would be something like 100 or there abouts.

Nikkor · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

I do not like that it's not being raised with thieves guild either! I don't think we need to wait for everyone to get to 501!

ADarklore · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

It's amazing that people actually WANT to reach the 3600 cap... and then all they'd do is complain that we need more than 3600. Well, studies have shown that humans truly cannot grasp the concept of 'the future', so clearly some people here can't comprehend what would happen once players started reaching 3600 and the fiasco that would create. They also can't seem to comprehend this game going for 15 years... when WoW has been going for 12. So clearly, adding mechanics to the game that are meant to be player incentives for many, many years isn't out of line.

With the CP mechanic in place, I'm not sure how many hours of gameplay it would take for people to add 51 CP once the cap is raised, I guess that depends on whether they are already at cap and have already amassed enough additional CP to already be at the next cap. I think that is a concern for ZOS as well, giving too high of CP per quarter and making those players who are already well above the cap too OP while still encouraging players far below the cap that they can still achieve it.

Woodoochill · January 2016

Are there any systems that scale up CP gain for new players? Cuz lets say over a year all players will have around 700 cp... but new guys that just buy the game by that time will have to play another year to catch up with others and be able to compete with them in leaderboards pvp and even hardcore elitist playstyle

Destruent · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Woodoochill wrote: »

Are there any systems that scale up CP gain for new players? Cuz lets say over a year all players will have around 700 cp... but new guys that just buy the game by that time will have to play another year to catch up with others and be able to compete with them in leaderboards pvp and even hardcore elitist playstyle

Yes, we already have a catch up system ingame. The less Cp you have, the less XP you need to get one.

Dymence · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

51 CP is absolutely nothing. People seem to be forgetting about the catch up mechanic which will scale upwards if the cap is increased. Putting a catch up mechanic and a low CP cap increase would be redudant in allowing people to catch up. The catch up mechanic alone is enough.

I'm very inactive right now personally, and just do my raids 3 times a week and I'm already 21 cp over cap just from doing this. That's roughly 920k xp per CP.

Rosveen · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Anything lower than 1 CP/day is absurd. The Champion System was envisioned as continuous progression, but now active players - those who ZOS should want to motivate to keep playing - will permanently stay around or above the CP cap. Is gear-grinding going to be the only real progression?
The players who benefit from lower caps are the less active ones - they'll be able to catch up, but paradoxically, they're likely to also be the ones who don't care about the CP cap in the first place because they don't play competitively.

ADarklore · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

Dymence wrote: »

51 CP is absolutely nothing. People seem to be forgetting about the catch up mechanic which will scale upwards if the cap is increased. Putting a catch up mechanic and a low CP cap increase would be redudant in allowing people to catch up. The catch up mechanic alone is enough.

I'm very inactive right now personally, and just do my raids 3 times a week and I'm already 21 cp over cap just from doing this. That's roughly 920k xp per CP.

Actually, the closer you are to cap the more XP it requires... so raising CP only 51 quarterly maintains the high XP requirement for CP yet continues to benefit those who are below the previous cap. So perhaps they could also make it 1.5M XP requirement for each CP that are within 51 CP of cap- would that be better?!?

ADarklore · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

Rosveen wrote: »

Anything lower than 1 CP/day is absurd. The Champion System was envisioned as continuous progression, but now active players - those who ZOS should want to motivate to keep playing - will permanently stay around or above the CP cap. Is gear-grinding going to be the only real progression?
The players who benefit from lower caps are the less active ones - they'll be able to catch up, but paradoxically, they're likely to also be the ones who don't care about the CP cap in the first place because they don't play competitively.

You also do realize from ZOS' own data mining, that those who are above the cap, the ones playing 'competitively', are also the minority of players in the game. When they released the data stating how few people were above CP cap, people couldn't believe it... but that's the reality, very few are at or above the cap and therefore are not ZOS' primary concern. Their concern is how to motivate lower CP players to continue progressing because clearly those already at cap don't need any more incentive otherwise they wouldn't be at cap.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

Other

It's true that casual players need a low cap increase in order to be able to catch up, but competitive players ALSO need a low cap increase in order to keep in order to not trivialize the new end game content too quickly.

We can already see how AA, HR and SO became walks in the park for very active players, partly due to big amounts of CPs. What if the new trial becomes too easy too fast and we are all bored again and asking for new content ?

(unrelated but on topic)

Although I cannot prove it, I believe this follows a pattern pre-calculated by ZOS.

Instead of :

- ZOS : CP cap is increased by 90
- Players : THIS IS TOO LOW !!
- ZOS : we won't budge, cap increase is 90.
- Players : ZOS doesn't listen !!! We hate you ZOS !!!

We'll have :

- ZOS : CP cap is increased by 51
- Players : THIS IS TOO LOW !!
- ZOS : OK, we've been collecting your feedback, CP cap increase is 90 instead of 51
- Players : ZOS listens !!! We love you ZOS !!!

.

Destruent · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

It's true that casual players need a low cap increase in order to be able to catch up, but competitive players ALSO need a low cap increase in order to keep in order to not trivialize the new end game content too quickly.

We can already see how AA, HR and SO became walks in the park for very active players, partly due to big amounts of CPs. What if the new trial becomes too easy too fast and we are all bored again and asking for new content ?
(unrelated but on topic)

Although I cannot prove it, I believe this follows a pattern pre-calculated by ZOS.

Instead of :

- ZOS : CP cap is increased by 90
- Players : THIS IS TOO LOW !!
- ZOS : we won't budge, cap increase is 90.
- Players : ZOS doesn't listen !!! We hate you ZOS !!!

We'll have :

- ZOS : CP cap is increased by 51
- Players : THIS IS TOO LOW !!
- ZOS : OK, we've been collecting your feedback, CP cap increase is 90 instead of 51
- Players : ZOS listens !!! We love you ZOS !!!

.

AA/HelRa (dunno about SO) were a walk in the park when 1.6 goes live...everyone had 70...100CP back then so this has nothing to do with CP. I'm fine with content getting easier bc my char gets stronger. But actually content gets easier bc ZOS decides so.

I think most won't complain about raising it by 90 every DLC. This would be around 1 CP/day. This is exactly the CP-gain rate ZOS introduced by enlightenment-bonus...so nothing wrong with it.

Erdmanski · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Broken PVP and no character progression? What will be the point for veteran players to continue to play the game?

Ishammael · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Should be 75-100 CPs per qtr

Rune_Relic · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

Kas wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So should we have a 1 year progression system so all the hardcore players are bored to death after 1 year and demand more content again and further progressions ?
I think a 10+ year progression system is a reasonable objective for an MMO.
I think hard core players need to take their foot off the gas, sit back and savour the content instead of bypass it as quick as possible to be top dog and OP compared to everyone else.

The problem making it character wide is there will be no more progression for any ALT when you hit 3600.
When you hit 3600 that's it....game over for all alts...not just one.

Also, why would ZOS invest such a fortune into assets and infrastructure tio kill it off over 5 years.
They want a return on their investment.
The longer ESO survives the more capital investment they get back + profit.

why not just add another dimension of progression? Doesn't it sound much more fun to start progressing on a different level after 2-3 years or would you really want to earn the same points for 10 years?

imho there is no reason to see CPs as the form of final endgame progression for all eternity. If you want a game to be played for 10 years, come up with something new, maybe?

I wont argue too much with your point as it is a fair one from a point of view.

The Vet system was supposed to be endgame progression beyond maxed level 50.
If you are going to let people increase power beyond 50...then there is no point having a level 50 limit.
So if you cant increase power (vertical) then the only other option is increases option/styles (horizontal)

Even the problems of CS that required capping acceleration and deceleration came about because it was another vertical progression system that ZOS were amply warned about.

Take away the vertical aspect and no one would give a damn about how many points you had, how many points you could get or how long it will take. As it would just mean you had access to a greater variety of builds and not greater power. It would be completely scalable in scope as you envision.

As it is....we have a second half arsed solution that gives us granular levelling instead of no levelling and all the issues that go with endless levelling...again. So, forgive me if I don't think inviting ZOS to come up with another endgame progression system is the way to go.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

Ourorboros wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

for me thisd raising cap is to low....get cap cp after moth from orsinium released, now i have 533 cp (32 after cap need 2x more xp per 1 cp) so until dlc be launchend then i have still capped cp, and always before release next dlc I will have always CP above cap, without using any exp pots, with some breaks in week in the game, just with slow lvling I will have always aboce CP cap..

I'm pve/pvp player and dont have always desire to play ESO without target ( more CP with more efficiency in pve) and then just take break for moths also....because it be boring for me.

pvp almost nonstop identical, zergs and zergs, in pve only daily dung with 1 chance per month to get good monster shouder/helm this my sick luck.

now when I getting next CP above cap...it is more and more borring, getting experience, getting more CP whose i cant use it, such time wasted to getting this exp...2x more per CP and cant use it, in these 4 moths playing with nonstop cap i will get again more than 51 cp, so dlc just be released i will have still cap and some cp to next cap BORING without any efficiency after playing 3 moths here and getting 2x more needed exp than is normally needed

To some extent, you are correct. You have a few more points than I do (currently around 510, don't remember exactly) but we are in the same boat - you and I will pretty much be at the CP cap for the remainder of ESO's lifespan (or for as long as we continue to play).

That being said, If they raise the cap by 100 points, it still really doesn't matter. You're going to hit the cap long before the next quarter mark and they raise the cap again. The only way you won't constantly be at the cap is if the cap is raised by a significant amount: 150, 200, etc. At this point you're going to be grinding out the CP to hit the cap before the next Q, and then you're going to be furthering the gap between you and the newer and more casual players. The point of the cap is to limit this discrepancy so that newer players have some chance to catch up.

For players like us, who are now basically going to be at the cap indefinitely, the focus should be on content.

Why should newer players be competitive with established players? It has no impact for questing, and little impact for other content. Dungeons and new DLC scale, and PVP scales. I'm new to PVP. Should I be able to get more AP than someone who has done PVP since game release? There is already a catchup in place for CP. Why should those who put more time into the game be penalized because they play more than casuals? It seems to me that whiners and misconception are ruining this game for those who play more, and for no good reason other than perception of imbalance.

Because you are under the misconception that getting more power by playing longer means you are a more skilled player.
If you are a more skilled player.....you wont need any bonuses to compete.
The only argument I see here is..I have been here longer or play longer so I should get an automatic Iwin button.
If anything more experienced players should receive a handicap....but that would remove skill from the game and make it no better a solution than the one you espouse here.

willymchilybily · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Heindrich wrote: »

Apparently Zenimax based this number off average CP... but that is a very flawed approach to make because there are loads of people with very low CP who have simply quit the game. They aren't playing the game anymore! Progression for players that are still playing should not be dictated by people that last logged on 6 months ago, or those who play once every few weeks.[snip].

I really hope this is rumor as Its more flawed than the fact there could be outliers in the data sample. id guess a decision based on bad information or minimal understanding.

The rate of "CP cap" increase should be based on a set date when the 3600 cap is wanted to be reached. Its the job of the catch up mechanic already introduce to control rate of gain based on how many CPs a player currently has. Else the two mechanics could end up fighting each other and working sub optimally.
eg.

if we say since the introduction of a 501 cap and catch up mechanic people gained on average 51 CP this quarter. you raise the cap by 51, and expect next quarter people will once again on average gained 51CP. They wont, the people at or above the cap will gain CP at approximately the same rate, those below the cap but now closer too it are gaining CP slower than before because they are catching up.

Kas wrote: »

Imho it would make MUCH more sense to look at the average across all logged in players at a time. Take a few samples, at different times of the day.

I like this approach.

Dymence · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

ADarklore wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

51 CP is absolutely nothing. People seem to be forgetting about the catch up mechanic which will scale upwards if the cap is increased. Putting a catch up mechanic and a low CP cap increase would be redudant in allowing people to catch up. The catch up mechanic alone is enough.

I'm very inactive right now personally, and just do my raids 3 times a week and I'm already 21 cp over cap just from doing this. That's roughly 920k xp per CP.

Actually, the closer you are to cap the more XP it requires... so raising CP only 51 quarterly maintains the high XP requirement for CP yet continues to benefit those who are below the previous cap. So perhaps they could also make it 1.5M XP requirement for each CP that are within 51 CP of cap- would that be better?!?

Why make it 1.5M xp requirement for each CP within 51 CP of cap? Just give us more champion points instead.

Do you know what 51 CP even amounts to? That are 17 CP per individual tree, which translates to virtually NO character progression. Might aswell take it out entirely then.

Brrrofski · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Way too low. You can easilly earn like 2 CP a day by doing pledges and then pvp for a few hours.

That is incredibly easy to do with enlightenment.

51 CP for roughly 90 days (3 months of 3 days).

It's less than 1 CP a day. It's incredibly low

Ashtaris · January 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

I've seen various comments for the "51 CP Seems about right" along the lines of "this gives others the chance to catch up". Talk about the "Entitlement" mentality. Why should someone who has only been in the game a year feel they should be entitled to have the same CP's as someone who has been in since Beta? It's like the teachers giving out gold stars to all the kids to make them feel better instead of actually earning it. I always felt that CP's were a form of progression on how much time and effort you are putting into the game. Obviously I was wrong.

Scamandros · January 2016

tbh by about 900 champ points I will have maxed out the 2-3 main passives in each constalation that actually make a noticable difference for each of my builds, everything after that will give such negligible gains it may as well be considered the end of champion progression (apart from +10 stat per CP). With that in mind we are already over halfway there

Lil_Willie · January 2016

What's a CP?

Whats this CP that you speak of?