Normal Maelstrom Arena is too easy

code65536 · January 2016

A few days ago, I was describing to someone how easy normal Maelstrom is, and he challenged me to complete nMA with no gear. Not bad gear, or non-set gear, or underleveled gear. But no gear.

And so I did. No armor of any sort. No jewelry. Just my two staves to keep me company. I completed nMA with no sigil use and just two silly deaths (not being careful with the stage 7 poison, and being stunned by a meteor upstairs on the final boss of the final stage). And despite my lack of gear and my refusal to use any sigils, this was still much easier than vMA with liberal sigil use.

Another point of reference: in the final stage of vet Maelstrom, the Crematorial Guard's melee attack hits me for somewhere around 9.6K. That same attack in normal Maelstrom hits me for only around 1.6K (with my gear on; this was a separate test). Or, to put it another way, when compared to vMA, you have around ~80% damage mitigation on nMA. I could literally just stand there in front of the Crematorial Guard without blocking and he wouldn't be able to outdamage my HoT.

I understand that normal Maelstrom is supposed to be for casual players, but it was tuned too far in that direction. And I suspect that this non-challenge of normal is the source of much of the frustration over vet, as the ludicrous gulf between the two leaves many players feeling that they are being left out: i.e., there is no point in running nMA, and the only challenge available to them is too great a challenge.

@ZOS_Finn I know you said you have no plans to change the balance of vet Maelstrom, and I think that's just fine. But how about buffing normal a bit? Don't you think that an ~80% reduction in damage might just be a bit extreme?

Mojmir · January 2016

Leave it alone,its our new grind

pronkg · January 2016

code65536 wrote: »

A few days ago, I was describing to someone how easy normal Maelstrom is, and he challenged me to complete nMA with no gear. Not bad gear, or non-set gear, or underleveled gear. But no gear.

And so I did. No armor of any sort. No jewelry. Just my two staves to keep me company. I completed nMA with no sigil use and just two silly deaths (not being careful with the stage 7 poison, and being stunned by a meteor upstairs on the final boss of the final stage). And despite my lack of gear and my refusal to use any sigils, this was still much easier than vMA with liberal sigil use.

Another point of reference: on round 9 of vet Maelstrom, the Crematorial Guard's melee attack hits me for somewhere around 9.6K. That same attack in normal Maelstrom hits me for only around 1.6K (with my gear on; this was a separate test). Or, to put it another way, when compared to vMA, you have around ~80% damage mitigation on nMA. I could literally just stand there in front of the Crematorial Guard without blocking and he wouldn't be able to outdamage my HoT.

I understand that normal Maelstrom is supposed to be for casual players, but it was tuned too far in that direction. And I suspect that this non-challenge of normal is the source of much of the frustration over vet, as the ludicrous gulf between the two leaves many players feeling that they are being left out: i.e., there is no point in running nMA, and the only challenge available to them is too great a challenge.

@ZOS_Finn I know you said you have no plans to change the balance of vet Maelstrom, and I think that's just fine. But how about buffing normal a bit? Don't you think that an ~80% reduction in damage might just be a bit extreme?

For what purpose,

code65536 · January 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Leave it alone,its our new grind

LOL, yea, it's a nice grind spot. One where you don't even have to incur repair costs since your character can clear it naked...

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Did normal on my lvl 23 templar, was easy never dropped below 60% life or died once.

Shunravi · January 2016

Dude... We cleared vCoH naked back when it was released. Back when everyone on the forum was whining you needed the bis gear to do it...

A lot can be done naked. Heck I know a tank who pugs naked.

Pistolera_ESO · January 2016

Vid or it didn't happen!

Autolycus · January 2016

code65536 wrote: »

A few days ago, I was describing to someone how easy normal Maelstrom is, and he challenged me to complete nMA with no gear. Not bad gear, or non-set gear, or underleveled gear. But no gear.

And so I did. No armor of any sort. No jewelry. Just my two staves to keep me company. I completed nMA with no sigil use and just two silly deaths (not being careful with the stage 7 poison, and being stunned by a meteor upstairs on the final boss of the final stage). And despite my lack of gear and my refusal to use any sigils, this was still much easier than vMA with liberal sigil use.

I understand that normal Maelstrom is supposed to be for casual players, but it was tuned too far in that direction. And I suspect that this non-challenge of normal is the source of much of the frustration over vet, as the ludicrous gulf between the two leaves many players feeling that they are being left out: i.e., there is no point in running nMA, and the only challenge available to them is too great a challenge.

@ZOS_Finn I know you said you have no plans to change the balance of vet Maelstrom, and I think that's just fine. But how about buffing normal a bit? Don't you think that an ~80% reduction in damage might just be a bit extreme?

I agree entirely that nMA is way too easy, and I recognize the testing you've done and the data you have collected. However, I would suggest adding a mid-tier difficulty, as many others have suggested before me.

There are still many players who find even nMA to be a challenge, and while it may be a differing view from my own, I think it's important to still have that easy content for the more casual or new players. Wrothgar is unique in that it's DLC purchasable and playable in the same day. This is somewhat true for IC, although IC is likely much more complex and confusing than Wrothgar is for a new player. This cannot be said even in the slightest for Craglorn, which any player purchasing the game today won't see Craglorn for weeks (likely).

I personally am somewhere between progression and elitist - I strive to be the best I can and to complete all content. I challenge myself to achieve higher numbers in damage and healing, and to survive even the most difficult of fights by myself. I have completed vMA and every hardmode trial & dungeon, and played a substantial amount of pvp as well. I by no means consider myself to be the best of the best, but at the very least I can say I'm a good player, and have a great deal of knowledge in all aspects of ESO. That being said, I still think it's important to keep the casuals happy too, so let's add a middle tier for those who aren't elitists, but still want a decent challenge (perhaps one that doesn't take 5-6 hours).

Elara_Northwind · January 2016

I agree that the normal arena is too easy. I also have been using it to grind, quite obsessively tbh

I made a new templar about a week ago, and she is vet10 now, and mostly got there from doing this everyday since about level 15 or so. I can complete it in less than half an hour without death, but I do quite like it like that in a way... because its levelling me up really fast

leepalmer95 · January 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

I agree that the normal arena is too easy. I also have been using it to grind though, quite obsessively tbh I made a new templar about a week ago, and she is vet10 now, and mostly got there from doing this everyday since about level 15 or so. I can complete it in less than half an hour without death, but I do quite like it like that in a way... because its levelling me up really fast

How effective is it, i got about 2 levels an hour when i did it pre vet ranks but killing zombies was faster as i got 4 level an hour.

At vet ranks is it effective? Or is it slower than just grinding gold/silver?

Kalebron · January 2016

I have only one problem completing the normal and it is the same that I have with the vet. About halfway through my mind tends to wonder off into space. I get bored. I cannot wait for a save option. Does the normal even drop anything at the end? And if it does, is it worth being challenged for?

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Kalebron wrote: »

I have only one problem completing the normal and it is the same that I have with the vet. About halfway through my mind tends to wonder off into space. I get bored. I cannot wait for a save option. Does the normal even drop anything at the end? And if it does, is it worth being challenged for?

You get a title, that is all.

TheShadowScout · January 2016

Maelstrohm too easy? For some maybe... I still have to manage to get through that darn rink of frozen blood... but I expect with a few more tries and learning the fights, I will eventually. It was only my second try after all...

But seem from that perspective, I keep wondering about people who state things like this... are they so darm elitist that they can no longer concieve casual players like me might still exist?
I mean, yeah I get it. Some people are -waaaaay- better then me in playing the game. No need to rub it in.

And no need to think the game ought to be balanced to cater to the elite, when most are not at that league by far.

But hey, I would have nothing against giving all these players another stage of difficulty iof they so desire. vMA too easy for you? Go for... Elite Maelstrohm Arena!

AshTal · January 2016

I cant do VET Malstrom and yet some people sail through it. I suspect there are huge jumps in character power. So someone with great stats will do better than your average player.

That said the thing that beats me every time in Malstrom ever time is the poison mist zone the damage hits me even though I roll out of the area of effect. Maybe if the mechanics didn't seem so broken the actual fights could be harder but being hit for 30K damage for no apparent reason is hard enough for me. ((Strange thing is first time I played it this part seemed really easy almost like the explosions actually went off when the animation showed))

leepalmer95 · January 2016

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Maelstrohm too easy? For some maybe... I still have to manage to get through that darn rink of frozen blood... but I expect with a few more tries and learning the fights, I will eventually. It was only my second try after all...

But seem from that perspective, I keep wondering about people who state things like this... are they so darm elitist that they can no longer concieve casual players like me might still exist?
I mean, yeah I get it. Some people are -waaaaay- better then me in playing the game. No need to rub it in.

And no need to think the game ought to be balanced to cater to the elite, when most are not at that league by far.

But hey, I would have nothing against giving all these players another stage of difficulty iof they so desire. vMA too easy for you? Go for... Elite Maelstrohm Arena!

This thread is about normal not vet.

FlicksZ · January 2016

Normal is fine and serves its purpose. I would actually argue that NMA is in a much better spot then what VMA is and likely achieves more for the game as it is then what VMA does.

There is a gulf between NMA and VMA in both difficulty and rewards. I also believe that it would be more enjoyable if this was bridged somewhat in both respects.

Making the entry lvl content simply harder because capable, knowledgeable, experienced players find it a cake walk is not the solution especially since this is (primarily solo) dlc too. Honestly I am amazed VMA has not been watered down long ago.

Elara_Northwind · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I agree that the normal arena is too easy. I also have been using it to grind though, quite obsessively tbh I made a new templar about a week ago, and she is vet10 now, and mostly got there from doing this everyday since about level 15 or so. I can complete it in less than half an hour without death, but I do quite like it like that in a way... because its levelling me up really fast

How effective is it, i got about 2 levels an hour when i did it pre vet ranks but killing zombies was faster as i got 4 level an hour.

At vet ranks is it effective? Or is it slower than just grinding gold/silver?

I find it really effective, as its pretty much grinding anyway really... I use xp boost and it takes about 2 runs to get a vet lvl, so its not bad!

leepalmer95 · January 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I agree that the normal arena is too easy. I also have been using it to grind though, quite obsessively tbh I made a new templar about a week ago, and she is vet10 now, and mostly got there from doing this everyday since about level 15 or so. I can complete it in less than half an hour without death, but I do quite like it like that in a way... because its levelling me up really fast

How effective is it, i got about 2 levels an hour when i did it pre vet ranks but killing zombies was faster as i got 4 level an hour.

At vet ranks is it effective? Or is it slower than just grinding gold/silver?

I find it really effective, as its pretty much grinding anyway really... I use xp boost and it takes about 2 runs to get a vet lvl, so its not bad!

Aah

2 runs for 1 lvl is quite low, i can get about a vet lvl an hour usually

Autolycus · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I agree that the normal arena is too easy. I also have been using it to grind though, quite obsessively tbh I made a new templar about a week ago, and she is vet10 now, and mostly got there from doing this everyday since about level 15 or so. I can complete it in less than half an hour without death, but I do quite like it like that in a way... because its levelling me up really fast

How effective is it, i got about 2 levels an hour when i did it pre vet ranks but killing zombies was faster as i got 4 level an hour.

At vet ranks is it effective? Or is it slower than just grinding gold/silver?

I find it really effective, as its pretty much grinding anyway really... I use xp boost and it takes about 2 runs to get a vet lvl, so its not bad!

Aah 2 runs for 1 lvl is quite low, i can get about a vet lvl an hour usually

I imagine that most people who are grinding nMA for experience can run through it 2-3 times in an hour, which is basically the same thing. Doesn't seem like a bad grind to me.