Stam sorcs really need more DPS utilities

Jar_Ek · January 2016

@Cathexis Maybe when they fix dual wield bleeds you can use Blood Craze? Currently vigour or rally are pretty much required in PVP because surge fails on shields. If they changed that and made it work on channels then DW would provide viable heals.

cdobratz · January 2016

Our Lord Fengrush has plead for this on deaf ears. The optimist in me says to wait for the balance patch, the realist in me says that they will probably give us an ability to summon a lightning sword that will hit for 1k once every 3 seconds and give us minor expedition for 1 second.

Autolycus · January 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

I'm actually noticing almost the opposite problem. I can't get away from rally and 2 hand.

If surge had the same heal over time, I could use it and drop 2 hand.

I use surge for my 2H, and it works very well. I don't even use rally. My weapon crit is high enough that I heal frequently enough from light attacks, WBs and executes. But there's always the good 'ol crit rush in 2h, which is a guaranteed crit (therefore a guaranteed heal).

Alucardo · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

I use surge for my 2H, and it works very well. I don't even use rally. My weapon crit is high enough that I heal frequently enough from light attacks, WBs and executes. But there's always the good 'ol crit rush in 2h, which is a guaranteed crit (therefore a guaranteed heal).

Guaranteed if your target doesn't have a shield

Brrrofski · January 2016

To be honest, if there was a Stam frag and stam curse I'd not bother with my stam Sorc. I'd just go on my magica sorc with a big ass shield.

Stam sorc is not in much worse of a place than stam Dk. Two stam dots isn't great to be fair.

Autolycus · January 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I use surge for my 2H, and it works very well. I don't even use rally. My weapon crit is high enough that I heal frequently enough from light attacks, WBs and executes. But there's always the good 'ol crit rush in 2h, which is a guaranteed crit (therefore a guaranteed heal).

Guaranteed if your target doesn't have a shield

Sure, but it's not like the only thing I do is circle around looking for Sorcs without shields just so I can heal up. And those shields are not that difficult to take down when one WB is enough to take the whole thing. Even a crit rush that doesn't crit will still do between 5-6k plus a 5k dot with maelstrom hammer. Was going to try out shieldbreaker, but turns out I don't need to.

Alucardo · January 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam sorc is not in much worse of a place than stam Dk. Two stam dots isn't great to be fair.

Apart from a small shield with major mending, the most powerful stam dot in the game, the most powerful reflect skill in the game, the most powerful and only physical ultimate in the game, an ultimate that turns them into an undying tank with 100% armour penetration, then yeah, they are pretty similar.

Edit: I forgot to mention battle roar and helping hands. I'd like these too.

MikeB · January 2016

2h Stam Sorcs suffer the same problem as Mag Sorcs, we have no class ability to spam. All 2h stam Sorcs have is WB and seeing how broken it is I refuse to use it in PvP. So what's that leave me to spam? Cleave? Lol no.

Autolycus · January 2016

MikeB wrote: »

2h Stam Sorcs suffer the same problem as Mag Sorcs, we have no class ability to spam. All 2h stam Sorcs have is WB and seeing how broken it is I refuse to use it in PvP. So what's that leave me to spam? Cleave? Lol no.

I use both cleave and WB in pvp. Situational? Yeah, sometimes.

Edit: I don't really use cleave outside of sewers, but it is fairly effective against larger groups.

FENGRUSH · February 2016

Good luck guys - patch notes look like no ETA on change

Alucardo · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Good luck guys - patch notes look like no ETA on change

Yeah.. I just saw. Thundering presence got a fix, which barely anybody uses anyway because it's a stamina sink. Useless.

Cody · February 2016

well I was hit with a 14K instant frag while same sorc consistently stacked damage shields to 20K, so idk about lacking DPS in of itself:D but abilities? certainly.

Alucardo · February 2016

Cody wrote: »

well I was hit with a 14K instant frag while same sorc consistently stacked damage shields to 20K, so idk about lacking DPS in of itself:D but abilities? certainly.

A stam sorc??

wskill · February 2016

[snip]

I built my sorc completely around pressence and in a way that makes it super effective.

Complaints like these may make devs ruin such builds.

Know why i quit games like path of exile etc? Because devs KEPT ruining my builds.
Dont let that happen on this game please..

Learn to play with skills, dont ask for premade blueprints or whatnot to feel effective. Just use your head.
And no dont ask how i made my build, im not sharing my secrets.

[Edited to remove baiting comment]

Alucardo · February 2016

wskill wrote: »

I built my sorc completely around pressence and in a way that makes it super effective.

Hollow complaints like these may make devs ruin such builds.

Know why i quit games like path of exile etc? Because devs KEPT ruining my builds.
Dont let that happen on this game please..

Learn to play with skills, dont ask for premade blueprints or whatnot to feel effective. Just use your head.
And no dont bother to ask how i made my build, im not sharing my secrets.

Sounds like a sick build bro. How'd you make it?

[Edited to remove quoted comment]

wskill · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Sounds like a sick build bro. How'd you make it?

By thinking outside the box and just being a good analyst.

[Edited to remove quoted comment]

found1779 · February 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Usually I'm against stam morphs for sorcs because it's supposed to be a magic class.

News flash, there is a stamina variant of all classes. This is INTENDED by ZOS or they wouldn't have made stamina morphs.

Where are you people getting this garbage? Sorcerer is not "Supposed" to be magicka only. In Elder Scrolls lore Sorcerers have always been a mix of a Warrior/mage with Magic/swords etc. They have almost always had heavy armor passives and used blades. This is not traditional fantasy, this is Elder Scrolls. Stop assuming what a class is "supposed" to be, Elder Scrolls has always been a 'play as you want' game.

Exactly it's just a shame us stamina sorcerers got screwed over yet again this patch

Alucardo · February 2016

wskill wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

wskill wrote: »

I built my sorc completely around pressence and in a way that makes it super effective.

Hollow complaints like these may make devs ruin such builds.

Know why i quit games like path of exile etc? Because devs KEPT ruining my builds.
Dont let that happen on this game please..

Learn to play with skills, dont ask for premade blueprints or whatnot to feel effective. Just use your head.
And no dont bother to ask how i made my build, im not sharing my secrets.

Sounds like a sick build bro. How'd you make it?

By thinking outside the box and just being a good analyst.

I believe that was a jab at my inability to think outside the box. But I'm too tired to work it out or be upset right now. I shall return tomorrow morning with frowns in your direction, I'm sure

[Edited to remove quoted comment]

Autolycus · February 2016

wskill wrote: »

Maybe if you didnt just look at the flat skills but wove a proper web through them youd get something that doesnt look *** on paper.

I built my sorc completely around pressence and in a way that makes it super effective.

Hollow complaints like these may make devs ruin such builds.

Know why i quit games like path of exile etc? Because devs KEPT ruining my builds.
Dont let that happen on this game please..

Learn to play with skills, dont ask for premade blueprints or whatnot to feel effective. Just use your head.
And no dont bother to ask how i made my build, im not sharing my secrets.

The fact that you neither described what you're doing in your build, nor your results, but still claim being analytical and logical is hypocritical and counterproductive. Don't make claims that you don't intend to back up with empirical data.

wskill · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

I believe that was a jab at my inability to think outside the box. But I'm too tired to work it out or be upset right now. I shall return tomorrow morning with frowns in your direction, I'm sure

I dont do jabs, im not that kind of person.

Autolycus wrote: »

The fact that you neither described what you're doing in your build, nor your results, but still claim being analytical and logical is hypocritical and counterproductive. Don't make claims that you don't intend to back up with empirical data.

Im not obligated to give away my build, i already said so in the first place that i would not. besides.. all im saying is i made the skill work greatly and the argument it has poor damage is based on a lack of knowing how to catalyse it properly.

Autolycus · February 2016

wskill wrote: »

Im not obligated to give away my build, i already said so in the first place that i would not. besides.. all im saying is i made the skill work greatly and the argument it has poor damage is based on a lack of knowing how to catalyse it properly.

I didn't say you were obligated to share your build. Allow me to rephrase, perhaps it will make more sense to you:

Nobody cares about your build if all you're going to do is talk smack and make meritless claims. You didn't even tell us the parts of your build that shine (e.g. damage, resource management, mitigation), so why do you expect anyone to care what you have to say? This is even more true when you say things like this:

wskill wrote: »

Maybe if you didnt just look at the flat skills but wove a proper web through them youd get something that doesnt look *** on paper.

in a thread that consists of people at the forefront of the theorycrafting community. I recognize many of these names, but yours carries no weight. I use Thundering Presence too, but you don't see me telling everyone they're stupid and wrong for not using it. Most of these people have done more analysis with one finger than you've shared.

"I'm not going to give away my build, because it's mine, mine, mine!" That's a pretty immature thing to say, especially since you're giving nothing back to the community in exchange for your little rant.

wskill · February 2016

Calm down with your animosity.

Maybe ill write it all down sometime, but now is not the time because i dont want everyone to be running around with it already, let me feel atleast a bit special doing my thing in this game, thanks.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I'm actually noticing almost the opposite problem. I can't get away from rally and 2 hand.

If surge had the same heal over time, I could use it and drop 2 hand.

That's a pretty interesting point actually. For me, the thing that really makes stam sorc stand out is that they aren't restricted to a particular type of weapon.
What I mean by that is we don't have to rely on dual wielding or 2h to get major brutality. We got that built in.
If surge had a reliable heal as well, it would make them even more independent and viable.

I think Surge has the potential to really add that cherry on top for the Sorcerer build, and for the longest time I've really wished they would deal with the shield problem. This shield issue is the same problem that Templars have in getting their spear damage through. They should bring shield #'s back up and adjust down generally a little bit if need be, and allow shields to be critted. This would help Sorcerers, particularly Storcs get their Surge effect off, and it would help Templars poke holes through sorcerer shields (or any shield for that matter). This would be a win-win as far as I can see it, unless I'm missing something here.

wskill · February 2016

Ok you know what screw it ill be helpful then.

But im not giving away all my plans for this build wich will optimalize it.

Instead of trying to get flat damage skills and bother too much with how much room (skillslots) you have for them..

(as for amplifying and optimalizing presence (wich is the version im using, not boundless, seeing as im built like a fat tank and the closeby damage boost is much better than anything else)
Use skills that both increase your spell and melee damage and lower the enemies spell and melee resist, for example the one handed and shield skill pierce armor, combine that one with power surge and though everyone already does that anyway but i still should mention it all the stormcaster passives and there you go, now personally i focus everything else on the shield and other defensive skills (for instance i have absorb magic), i mean.. my stormcaster shieldmage is a redguard for a reason.

Thats 50% of the thing im doing, the rest stays in my head.

AfkNinja · February 2016

wskill wrote: »

Ok you know what screw it ill be helpful then.

But im not giving away all my plans for this build wich will optimalize it.

Instead of trying to get flat damage skills and bother too much with how much room (skillslots) you have for them..

(as for amplifying and optimalizing presence (wich is the version im using, not boundless, seeing as im built like a fat tank and the closeby damage boost is much better than anything else)
Use skills that both increase your spell and melee damage and lower the enemies spell and melee resist, for example the one handed and shield skill pierce armor, combine that one with power surge and though everyone already does that anyway but i still should mention it all the stormcaster passives and there you go, now personally i focus everything else on the shield and other defensive skills (for instance i have absorb magic), i mean.. my stormcaster shieldmage is a redguard for a reason.

Thats 50% of the thing im doing, the rest stays in my head.

OMG BRO YOUR BUILD IS SO SICK WHY DIDN'T ANYONE EVER THINK OF THIIIISSSSSSS!!!!!

To the rest of you sorry, looks like Stam Sorc got dumped on again.

-Signed a Stamina Templar -_-

wskill · February 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

OMG BRO YOUR BUILD IS SO SICK WHY DIDN'T ANYONE EVER THINK OF THIIIISSSSSSS!!!!!

To the rest of you sorry, looks like Stam Sorc got dumped on again.

-Signed a Stamina Templar -_-

'this' is just half of it, only pointing in the right direction. You know what kind of character i built on poe? A fire mage that did strictly (as in 100%) cold damage optimalizing dps and stuns at the same time. Im not building a stam sorc. Now that might give away a little bit too much of my future intention but ok, considering your childish response i doubt youll get it.

AfkNinja · February 2016

wskill wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

OMG BRO YOUR BUILD IS SO SICK WHY DIDN'T ANYONE EVER THINK OF THIIIISSSSSSS!!!!!

To the rest of you sorry, looks like Stam Sorc got dumped on again.

-Signed a Stamina Templar -_-

'this' is just half of it, only pointing in the right direction. You know what kind of character i built on poe? A fire mage that did strictly (as in 100%) cold damage optimalizing dps and stuns at the same time. Im not building a stam sorc. Now that might give away a little bit too much of my future intention but ok, considering your childish response i doubt youll get it.

Hahahaha resorting to personal attacks already? Clearly I struck a nerve. I replied to your post with sarcasm because that was the proper response to someone bragging about a build and then refusing to back up his claims IN ANY WAY. (Also your grammar and spelling was pretty bad, hit that spell check bro.)

Just throw up a video of you "pwning some newbs" and prove you have a great "out of the box" build. Making vague claims with no corroborating evidence just makes you look foolish.

WarLord2905 · February 2016

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Sourcer is a magic based character, its pretty obvious from the start. Not sure why you feel entitled to have stamina based abilities and morphs for a mage class.

I'm not even sure how to reply to this without coming off as offensive

I think the rest of his opinions were dragon "knights" should only wear heavy armour and tank, templars only heal and nightblades must only dps, from behind, using daggers...

Some people just don't want to break away from fixed classes and roles.

I totally agree aLi3nZ, why would ZOS wreck an entire MAGIC class for the few people who are playing a left field build. I saw another post saying Overload didnt hit as hard with a stam sorc..... its an ultimate that does magic damage in a class designed for magic users....... of course it doesnt hit as hard, no different to a magic based sorceror who uses werewolve as an ultimate that is based off weapon damage, guess what it is not going to hit as hard a stamina build will. Different builds are all good and fun to play around with but you cant expect them to be as good as someone who builds one specifically design to maximise what the class is all about.

Dyride · February 2016

Some good ideas thrown around in here alongside the standard useless vitriol against stam sorcs.

Ultimates are supposed to scale off of the highest stat. I would like to be proven wrong, but a Stam Sorcs Overload hits for a lot less than a Magicka Sorc, regardless of how it scales with CP.

I use Silver Shards as spammable DPS on my stam sorc if I am tight on skill slots. It hits roughly as hard as Flying Blade on the primary target plus the knockdown and extra damage for vamps/WW and also hits 2 other targets for 1/2 damage.

For DPS and PVP, a Daedric Curse that applied a poison DoT and Minor Breach would be awesome, especially if it applied a buff like Minor Berserk if the target dies. Stam Sorcs generally don't need help with AOE DPS, they need single target pressure and utility.

Also I think a stam Mages Wrath would be hard to balance, as cool as it sounds.

CP5 · February 2016

WarLord2905 wrote: »

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Sourcer is a magic based character, its pretty obvious from the start. Not sure why you feel entitled to have stamina based abilities and morphs for a mage class.

I'm not even sure how to reply to this without coming off as offensive

I think the rest of his opinions were dragon "knights" should only wear heavy armour and tank, templars only heal and nightblades must only dps, from behind, using daggers...

Some people just don't want to break away from fixed classes and roles.

I totally agree aLi3nZ, why would ZOS wreck an entire MAGIC class for the few people who are playing a left field build. I saw another post saying Overload didnt hit as hard with a stam sorc..... its an ultimate that does magic damage in a class designed for magic users....... of course it doesnt hit as hard, no different to a magic based sorceror who uses werewolve as an ultimate that is based off weapon damage, guess what it is not going to hit as hard a stamina build will. Different builds are all good and fun to play around with but you cant expect them to be as good as someone who builds one specifically design to maximise what the class is all about.

Then why don't you go to the templar threads and tell them to just accept having low damage since they are only supposed to be healers? This is ESO, its not class A has to do one role, each class can pick up any role and bring their class specific strengths to it. That's not the case here.

And if you want to bring up a discussion about how sorc's are supposed to be a pure caster class anyway I will just point out that in elder scrolls games they have always been skilled with weapons and heavy armor.