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Stam sorcs really need more DPS utilities
Alucardo
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Please don't give me that flack about Thundering Presence. The AOE dot on that is laughable, the major expedition for 4 seconds is a joke and all for a high stamina cost. I don't know any stam sorcs who won't use Boundless Storm, the magicka version. So yeah, thanks for that cool utility ZOS. Much appreciated. Really blew our socks off.
We have a few passives. There's 2 decent ones, and I want to highlight them
Daedric Protection
This increases our stamina and health regeneration by 20% while a daedric summoning ability is slotted. We generally have no room for bound armaments because of all the generic weapon skills required to make our builds work, so some actually forfeit an ultimate to slot the atro just for this passive. Other stam sorcs don't even worry about it.
Expert Mage
Increases weapon damage by 1% for each sorcerer ability slotted. Wow, that sounds awesome! Well yeah it does, except stam sorcs rarely have many sorc abilities on their bar except for streak and boundless storm.
You need to remove the passive restrictions or give us another DD ability.
I was testing out DPS with a stam DK yesterday in a few duels, and I found it hard to keep up with him. His unstable flame was burning the entire time, I couldn't use my DoT (Poison Injection) because he'd just flap his wings, he has access to the only major mending in the game making his healing look like it was on steroids, and with a wrecking blow+take flight his ultimate easily hit for over 12k.
So what would be nice?
As I said, if you can't/won't remove the passive restrictions, I'd really like to see some more DPS utilities for us to use, to help keep the pressure on our targets.
Here's some suggestions Magicka sorcs are going to QQ about, but at this point, I really don't care.
1. A stamina morph of Lightning Splash OR Mages Fury that calls down lightning on the opponent, hitting them with a small amount of direct damage and applying a DoT similar to Unstable Flame, but lightning of course. Scales off weapon damage and max stamina. This would help keep pressure on opponents and give us a decent class stam option.
2. A stamina morph of Daedric Curse. Must be within melee range to cast so they can't just stand back shooting at people, which wouldn't make any sense. It would obviously scale off weapon damage and max stamina.
3. Turn Crystal Blast into a stam version that slices an opponent with a crystal sword, inducing bleed damage over time. Can only be cast within melee range and scales off weapon damage/max stamina. This would actually make the Dark Magic tree useful for stam sorcs, which it's currently not. It also means we'll be able to make use of the Blood Magic and Persistence passives, which would be really nice.
These are just some ideas, and I'm getting tired of asking, but something needs to be done. @Wrobel you alive bruh?
Edited by Alucardo on January 14, 2016 8:34PM We have a few passives. There's 2 decent ones, and I want to highlight them
Daedric Protection
This increases our stamina and health regeneration by 20% while a daedric summoning ability is slotted. We generally have no room for bound armaments because of all the generic weapon skills required to make our builds work, so some actually forfeit an ultimate to slot the atro just for this passive. Other stam sorcs don't even worry about it.
Expert Mage
Increases weapon damage by 1% for each sorcerer ability slotted. Wow, that sounds awesome! Well yeah it does, except stam sorcs rarely have many sorc abilities on their bar except for streak and boundless storm.
You need to remove the passive restrictions or give us another DD ability.
I was testing out DPS with a stam DK yesterday in a few duels, and I found it hard to keep up with him. His unstable flame was burning the entire time, I couldn't use my DoT (Poison Injection) because he'd just flap his wings, he has access to the only major mending in the game making his healing look like it was on steroids, and with a wrecking blow+take flight his ultimate easily hit for over 12k.
So what would be nice?
As I said, if you can't/won't remove the passive restrictions, I'd really like to see some more DPS utilities for us to use, to help keep the pressure on our targets.
Here's some suggestions Magicka sorcs are going to QQ about, but at this point, I really don't care.
1. A stamina morph of Lightning Splash OR Mages Fury that calls down lightning on the opponent, hitting them with a small amount of direct damage and applying a DoT similar to Unstable Flame, but lightning of course. Scales off weapon damage and max stamina. This would help keep pressure on opponents and give us a decent class stam option.
2. A stamina morph of Daedric Curse. Must be within melee range to cast so they can't just stand back shooting at people, which wouldn't make any sense. It would obviously scale off weapon damage and max stamina.
3. Turn Crystal Blast into a stam version that slices an opponent with a crystal sword, inducing bleed damage over time. Can only be cast within melee range and scales off weapon damage/max stamina. This would actually make the Dark Magic tree useful for stam sorcs, which it's currently not. It also means we'll be able to make use of the Blood Magic and Persistence passives, which would be really nice.
These are just some ideas, and I'm getting tired of asking, but something needs to be done. @Wrobel you alive bruh?
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Johngo0036✭✭✭✭✭I just started leveling a stam sorc and have found that Mages Fury is a really awesome execution skill..... Unfortunately it is magicka based so a Stam morph would be AWESOME......
I slot Greater storm atronach for the Daedric Protection on my main bar... oh wait i only have one bar still.....
What i have noticed is that i open my attack with frags, stampede and i land both at roughly the same time, followed by mages fury and the NPC is TOAST........ I am only level 10.. lol...
PC EU Megaserver
@Johngo0036
CP900+
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer |The-Irritable-Witch(DC)
Orc Stamina Dragonknight | Gru-Bolar(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Nightblade | Chewbucca(DC)
Khajit Stamina Nightblade | Gleaming Daggers(DC)
Altmer Magicka Nightblade | Miss Chewbucca(EP)
Argonian Magicka Templar | Walks-With-Friends(EP)
Argonian Templar Healer | Dr Toxic(EP)
Orc Stamina Sorc | Lady Streaks-Alot(DC)
Dunmer Magicka DK | Whips-n-Chains(DC)
Nord Warden | Demi Tank(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Warden | Crafter-O-Crafts(DC)
Bosmer Stamplar | Forest-Plump(DC)
Argonian Hybrid Nb | Men-O-Paws(DC)
Bosmer Stamblade | 'Maui(AD)
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer | Mid-Life-Crisis(AD)0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Johngo0036 wrote: »I just started leveling a stam sorc and have found that Mages Fury is a really awesome execution skill..... Unfortunately it is magicka based so a Stam morph would be AWESOME......
I slot Greater storm atronach for the Daedric Protection on my main bar... oh wait i only have one bar still.....
What i have noticed is that i open my attack with frags, stampede and i land both at roughly the same time, followed by mages fury and the NPC is TOAST........ I am only level 10.. lol...
Man, what kind of build are you running? Lol
At level 10 I guess it won't matter too much, but if you try doing something like that in PVP, you will be toast. Not to mention we just don't have the magicka pools to keep that up.2 -
well for PvE if i count you have on main dps bar 2 wepon skils (WB and executioner) and + evil hunter, which give you 2 free spots for bound armor and surge, and surge can be moved to utility bar, similiar as most of DW players without acces to clas major brutality buff are doing it, which give you free slot for what you want on main dps bar without loosing benefit from deadric protection pasive and bound armor. i will be kiling for similiar pasive and as bound armor with my stamplar .....Adraria Argentum Draco - imperial Stamplar
Bevdyen Tus Ntxhuav - Orc Stamplar
Celestun Ira Dei- Imperial Tankplar
Halldis Rautt Höfuð- Nord Tankplar
Misawa Yoshike - Breton Healplar
Lae'ozhael - Dunmer Magplar0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Swen_von_Walhallion wrote: »well for PvE if i count you have on main dps bar 2 wepon skils (WB and executioner) and + evil hunter, which give you 2 free spots for bound armor and surge, and surge can be moved to utility bar, similiar as most of DW players without acces to clas major brutality buff are doing it, which give you free slot for what you want on main dps bar without loosing benefit from deadric protection pasive and bound armor. i will be kiling for similiar pasive and as bound armor with my stamplar .....
I don't use WB. I run Bow and S+B (Ransack). I used to run bound armaments, but I simply don't have the space for a toggle any more, hence why I stuck Atro in my ultimate. Not like we have any useful ones for stamina builds any way.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, @Swen_von_Walhallion the main point of my argument was DPS abilities, not utilities. We don't have anything to keep pressure on our targets like other classes do. All we have is toggle effects, passives and a useless version of boundless storm.1 -
Steel_Brightblade✭✭✭✭Mmm must be doing my set up a bit differently, but I'd rather they didn't tinker with my stamsorc too much, he does insane aoe damage with dual wield, on single target on my back bar using either bow or 2 hander depending on the situation he also does great. Has just under 40K stamina when fully buffed and procs 5K weapon damage with 70% crit. He is by far the most fun of my 4 rank 16s to play. Haven't golded up his gear yet other than weapons.0
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Steel_Brightblade wrote: »Mmm must be doing my set up a bit differently, but I'd rather they didn't tinker with my stamsorc too much, he does insane aoe damage with dual wield, on single target on my back bar using either bow or 2 hander depending on the situation he also does great. Has just under 40K stamina when fully buffed and procs 5K weapon damage with 70% crit. He is by far the most fun of my 4 rank 16s to play. Haven't golded up his gear yet other than weapons.
My suggestions wouldn't affect any existing stam sorc builds in the slightest. Removing the restrictions on the passives would actually make them even better, and the stam morphs I listed would be completely optional.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A poison-based stamina morph for Daedric Curse would be nice.
Peryite curses people all the time.
Sorry, blesses.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
Johngo0036✭✭✭✭✭Johngo0036 wrote: »I just started leveling a stam sorc and have found that Mages Fury is a really awesome execution skill..... Unfortunately it is magicka based so a Stam morph would be AWESOME......
I slot Greater storm atronach for the Daedric Protection on my main bar... oh wait i only have one bar still.....
What i have noticed is that i open my attack with frags, stampede and i land both at roughly the same time, followed by mages fury and the NPC is TOAST........ I am only level 10.. lol...
Man, what kind of build are you running? Lol
At level 10 I guess it won't matter too much, but if you try doing something like that in PVP, you will be toast. Not to mention we just don't have the magicka pools to keep that up.
Hell no i wouldnt run this in Cyro......
Just dont have skills to use yet..PC EU Megaserver
@Johngo0036
CP900+
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer |The-Irritable-Witch(DC)
Orc Stamina Dragonknight | Gru-Bolar(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Nightblade | Chewbucca(DC)
Khajit Stamina Nightblade | Gleaming Daggers(DC)
Altmer Magicka Nightblade | Miss Chewbucca(EP)
Argonian Magicka Templar | Walks-With-Friends(EP)
Argonian Templar Healer | Dr Toxic(EP)
Orc Stamina Sorc | Lady Streaks-Alot(DC)
Dunmer Magicka DK | Whips-n-Chains(DC)
Nord Warden | Demi Tank(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Warden | Crafter-O-Crafts(DC)
Bosmer Stamplar | Forest-Plump(DC)
Argonian Hybrid Nb | Men-O-Paws(DC)
Bosmer Stamblade | 'Maui(AD)
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer | Mid-Life-Crisis(AD)0 -
Steel_Brightblade✭✭✭✭Your suggestions may not but we all know when zos start making "improvements" or "fixes" to anything they can't help themselves from tampering with the rest that works fine and generally wrecking it. Better to be left alone entirely than come under their radar.0
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kkampaseb17_ESO✭✭✭3. Turn Crystal Blast into a stam version that slices an opponent with a crystal sword, inducing bleed damage over time. Can only be cast within melee range and scales off weapon damage/max stamina. This would actually make the Dark Magic tree useful for stam sorcs, which it's currently not. It also means we'll be able to make use of the Blood Magic and Persistence passives, which would be really nice.
This and the discussion can end here. Give us Crystal slash! (not crystal punch wtf...for god's sake).
The details of this sorc melee spammable attack are still unclear in my head. It could be something to make stamina sorcerers unique at their role as stamina users.
It could be a very powerful instant cast cone 10 meter PbAoE with some soft CC/debuff.
It could be a melee uninterraptable ability with casting time and with CC like wrecking blow.
It could be a melee instant cast with situational/percentage chance of CC like Surprise attack.
I still haven't thought about the specifics of this ability and I play a stamina sorc since April 2014 so I have a good grasp of the class. I am more inclined of having a SA ability with percentage chance of CC.Edited by kkampaseb17_ESO on January 13, 2016 9:26AM0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭@Steel_Brightblade Can you share your build plz.
@Alucardo I agree on all points generally.
My preference is for a mages fury direct damage delayed execute ability (melee range), and a crystal blast that was stamina pbaoe knockdown. Daedric curse stamina version based on touch and actually a poison DoT with heavy last tick would be good too.
@Jogngo0036 At level 10 you are a hybrid not a stamina sorcerer.0 -
Steel_Brightblade✭✭✭✭Doing this on my phone which is awkward but gist is all points in stamina. 5xhundings, 5x briarheart 1x Molog Kena. Everything glyphed for stamina, all jewellery has gold or purple weapon damage glyphs, weapons have purple weapon damage glyphs.
Skills on bar one.
Steel tornado, thundering presence, critical surge, evil hunter and bound armaments. With flawless Dawn breaker.
Bar 2.
Wrecking blow, executioner, critical surge, evil hunter and bound armaments with overload.
When using a bow I just swap out wrecking blow and executioner for focused aim and poison injection.
Sustain is a bit poor even with 100 champion points in warlord but for dungeons there's is no problem as long as there's a templar supporting. Should mention I've got about 350 champion points which helps a lot.0 -
Steel_Brightblade wrote: »5x briarheart
How much/what sort of grinding did it take to get the jewelry pieces? Just Orsinium dailies ad nauseam?Edited by Immovablestone on January 13, 2016 1:09PM0 -
Stannum✭✭✭✭
re you talking about PvP build or about DPS(PvE) build?....
Daedric Protection
This increases our stamina and health regeneration by 20% while a daedric summoning ability is slotted. We generally have no room for bound armaments because of all the generic weapon skills required to make our builds work, so some actually forfeit an ultimate to slot the atro just for this passive. Other stam sorcs don't even worry about it.
Expert Mage
Increases weapon damage by 2% for each sorcerer ability slotted. Wow, that sounds awesome! Well yeah it does, except stam sorcs rarely have many sorc abilities on their bar except for streak and boundless storm.
....
DPS(PvE) build works great with both these passives.
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
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I primarily PVP. If you look at any other stam sorc PVP builds you'll find very few actual sorc abilities slotted. Even removing the restrictions it wouldn't affect PVE ones in any waydancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »re you talking about PvP build or about DPS(PvE) build?
DPS(PvE) build works great with both these passives.
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Stannum✭✭✭✭To tell the truth stamina sorcs are mostly PvE oriented and they are really great for PvE.1
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I use 4 sorc abilities.
Streak
Lightning form
Crit surge
Atro
All buffs. Streak is the only thing you can use offensively. You got like 3 of them.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »To tell the truth stamina sorcs are mostly PvE oriented and they are really great for PvE.
hm...so great they can even outdps a stamplar....Noobplar0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »To tell the truth stamina sorcs are mostly PvE oriented and they are really great for PvE.
Not by using sorc abilities though. Which is the point of this thread.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like all of these ideas... except for Daedric Curse. Right now, one morph cuts the time it takes to detonate, while the other is a vital morph for pet builds to do dps (from what it sounds like, maybe a magicka pet build sorc could speak on this). They're both important. Not sure how you could add a stamina morph without having three morphs for this ability!
I would give stam sorcs the execute and crystal slash for sure though with the improved passives!1 -
Steel_Brightblade✭✭✭✭Immovablestone wrote: »Steel_Brightblade wrote: »5x briarheart
How much/what sort of grinding did it take to get the jewelry pieces? Just Orsinium dailies ad nauseam?
Doing dailies with 4 characters, got it all at rank 16 but still have a couple of pieces with less than ideal traits which is one reason I've not upgraded all to gold yet.0 -
Sparky617✭✭✭I don't really care much about a stam morph for Lightning Splash, But I desperately want stamina Curse, stamina Mage's Fury, and stamina Crystal Shard. Those were, to me, what defined the Sorcerer that I wanted to play. I dont want to use staffs in order to use those skills effectively. It al worked well pre-1.6 when soft caps made hybrid builds more feasible, but now... it's just a couple of buffs and the rest weapon abilities.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't really care much about a stam morph for Lightning Splash, But I desperately want stamina Curse, stamina Mage's Fury, and stamina Crystal Shard. Those were, to me, what defined the Sorcerer that I wanted to play. I dont want to use staffs in order to use those skills effectively. It al worked well pre-1.6 when soft caps made hybrid builds more feasible, but now... it's just a couple of buffs and the rest weapon abilities.
Well the Lightning Splash morph I suggested would work as a DoT, similar to unstable flame. Not that ground AOE crap it has now. To be honest, I'd be happy with either suggestion - even if it's just one. Just something to add to our DPS utility belt that isn't a generic weapon tree skill.2 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭I think we need to be clear with zos WHY we feel the need for an in class stamina dps ability or three. My reasons are:
1. I cannot synergies with my class passives without some abilities that are effective as a stamina sorcerer. Currently we have: surge, boundless lightning (not not Thunderous Presence), streak and Bound armaments. Technically I could add encase or rune cage in but tbh they are too expensive. I could also add Clannfear in, but it doesn't scale in damage with stamina.
So without a pet and no real dark magic options, and only very lacklustre dps abilities from storm calling 50% or more of our class passives are simply ineffective or are of limited effectiveness.
2. The class ultimate that defines sorcerers is overload. It makes magicka dps viable. It is less effective for stamina sorcerers as the scaling is off magical cp stars. However the 3rd bar could be useful but isn't as there are so few useful class abilities that a stamina sorcerer can load onto it.
3. I want to be a sorcerer who uses his magical abilities to supplement and support his melee combat. I feel more like a generic warrior with no magical abilities at the moment. But to really rub it in, I see various NPCs using 2H swords and lightning attacks in melee!
Anyway those are my top 3 reasons. The 4th would be that atm every stamina sorcerer is essentially a clone as there are so few ways to build one!5 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think we need to be clear with zos WHY we feel the need for an in class stamina dps ability or three. My reasons are:
1. I cannot synergies with my class passives without some abilities that are effective as a stamina sorcerer. Currently we have: surge, boundless lightning (not not Thunderous Presence), streak and Bound armaments. Technically I could add encase or rune cage in but tbh they are too expensive. I could also add Clannfear in, but it doesn't scale in damage with stamina.
So without a pet and no real dark magic options, and only very lacklustre dps abilities from storm calling 50% or more of our class passives are simply ineffective or are of limited effectiveness.
2. The class ultimate that defines sorcerers is overload. It makes magicka dps viable. It is less effective for stamina sorcerers as the scaling is off magical cp stars. However the 3rd bar could be useful but isn't as there are so few useful class abilities that a stamina sorcerer can load onto it.
3. I want to be a sorcerer who uses his magical abilities to supplement and support his melee combat. I feel more like a generic warrior with no magical abilities at the moment. But to really rub it in, I see various NPCs using 2H swords and lightning attacks in melee!
Anyway those are my top 3 reasons. The 4th would be that atm every stamina sorcerer is essentially a clone as there are so few ways to build one!
Nice list there. I think I'm #3 - I feel like a generic warrior. Every class has something special they can use as a DPS utility, except stam sorc. We're limited to the weapon trees.
I find survivability pretty poor on stam sorcs. The best protection we have is probably boundless storm, which isn't saying much when one puncture can basically negate that, which is why I suggested on another thread it'd be nice if we had access to major mending with Thundering Presence to help accelerate healing at least. It might also make that morph somewhat viable, because it's pretty poor at the moment.1 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I find myself very reliant on crit surge for survival and would love an ultimate that actually helped me survive. It's pretty sad when my best survival ultimate is WW (i don't have barrier, and negate does nothing to help ME in boss fights or in pvp). In fact I do find it kinda odd how few survivability ultimates there are.1
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Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah I find myself very reliant on crit surge for survival and would love an ultimate that actually helped me survive. It's pretty sad when my best survival ultimate is WW (i don't have barrier, and negate does nothing to help ME in boss fights or in pvp). In fact I do find it kinda odd how few survivability ultimates there are.
If you need survival ultimates in bossfights your movement and healer are just bad...sry to say so. You are a DPS in PvE...Slot a dmg ultimate and nothing else. Critsurge + Wrecking Blow with high crit rating will keep you alive (this worked perfect in vMSA....), Steeltornado will do the same when clearing adds.Noobplar0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I find myself very reliant on crit surge for survival and would love an ultimate that actually helped me survive. It's pretty sad when my best survival ultimate is WW (i don't have barrier, and negate does nothing to help ME in boss fights or in pvp). In fact I do find it kinda odd how few survivability ultimates there are.
wtb dragon leap or corrosive armour2